Wednesday 14th December 2016

Post by **refitman** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 7:09 am

Morning all.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 8:05 am

Hello!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 8:48 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/dat ... poll-shows" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Europeans greatly overestimate Muslim population, poll shows
International survey suggests gap between perception and reality is widest in France
The average French estimate was that 31% of the population was Muslim – almost one in three residents. According to Pew Research, France’s Muslim population actually stood at 7.5% in 2010, or one in 13 people.

: reality gap.jpg (78.58 KiB) Viewed 12175 times

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 8:48 am

Morning all.

So, the NAO confirms what everyone working in education has known for ages.

DfE must ‘get its act together’ on school finances after spending watchdog condemns lack of leadership

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-must-get-i ... eadership/

The National Audit Office (NAO) has delivered a scathing verdict on the Department for Education’s (DfE) lack of leadership on school finances as deficits continue to balloon.

The public spending watchdog, which has analysed evidence over the past eight months, criticised the DfE for requesting budget cuts from schools while “not knowing” why deficits are growing, not clearly communicating a strategy, and not evaluating its own interventions.

The report also accused the department of failing to recognise that per-pupil spending would drop over the next four years because of increasing pupil numbers and rising inflation.

Yep. They've been saying all the time that school spending has been protected in real times when everyone knew that was nonsense.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 9:22 am

Well I thought Hussain was rather surprised earlier how she was facing a united front from Blunt and McGovern. Both called out Johnson as trying to deflect from what the government are doing (not a lot) and could be doing.

The less said about John F Humphrys and his questioning of BHHowe over the 'supposed' increase in hate crimes post Brexit.

Morning all btw.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 9:22 am

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... w14&wpmm=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scientists are frantically copying U.S. climate data, fearing it might vanish under Trump

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 9:26 am

Angela Rayner MP‏ @AngelaRayner
Government to cut £3 billion in funding to state schools but find extra money to fund their proposed grammar school expansion programme?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 9:54 am

Willow904 wrote:
Angela Rayner MP‏ @AngelaRayner
Government to cut £3 billion in funding to state schools but find extra money to fund their proposed grammar school expansion programme?

Can't be true. The BBC would make reference to it in their reporting if that was the case.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 10:31 am

Watching the edu select committee hearing on primary assessment and we'd just got this:

Modern Governor ‏@ModernGovernor 56s57 seconds ago

@MichaelT1979 annoyed as @SuellaFernandes asserts the media myth about widespread "functional illiteracy" among pri pupils #EdSelcttee

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 10:47 am

Good morfternoon.

Interesting reading (over at Politics Live, Guardian) about the Government's "Brexit" deliberations. It starts at 10.27 and contains excerpts from an article by Sam Coates of the Times.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 10:56 am

StephenDolan wrote:Well I thought Hussain was rather surprised earlier how she was facing a united front from Blunt and McGovern. Both called out Johnson as trying to deflect from what the government are doing (not a lot) and could be doing.

The less said about John F Humphrys and his questioning of BHHowe over the 'supposed' increase in hate crimes post Brexit.

Morning all btw.

Seriously, isn't it time for Humphrys to retire?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 11:17 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Well I thought Hussain was rather surprised earlier how she was facing a united front from Blunt and McGovern. Both called out Johnson as trying to deflect from what the government are doing (not a lot) and could be doing.

The less said about John F Humphrys and his questioning of BHHowe over the 'supposed' increase in hate crimes post Brexit.

Morning all btw.
Seriously, isn't it time for Humphrys to retire?

Yes.

Paul Mason to replace him.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 11:31 am

Hah, the very thought

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 11:47 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Hah, the very thought

Blinking lefty BBC...

Given the typical path progression of 'political correspondent to occasional political interviewer to an established Name' of Peston, Robinson and Marr I wouldn't be surprised if the next in line was Kuenssberg. No, I am not trolling.!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 12:19 pm

Not watching it but...

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 57s57 seconds ago

Fiery and effective performance by Corbyn. May left blaming last Labour government. #PMQs

...you've had six years Theresa. And it's not as if you're a recent appointment to the cabinet either.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 12:46 pm

Becoming a bit of a habit now, too.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 1:45 pm

Boris Johnson's unused water cannon had £1,000 stereos fitted

London mayor Sadiq Khan says £323,000 was spent on the vehicles, which were never approved and are now being sold

GLA spokeswoman said she understood that the stereos, which included radios and CD players, had been installed to the water cannon so police officers operating the vehicles were able to listen to the news while out on the streets. (Guardian)

Who listens to the news on a CD?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... 00-stereos

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 2:12 pm

DECENT BLOKE ALERT:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/ ... ee-stories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Pensioner presents every MP with collection of refugee stories
Campaigner Michaela Fryson has given 650 copies of the anthology A Country of Refuge to UK politicians in a bid to soften the hostile tone of public debate

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 2:19 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Boris Johnson's unused water cannon had £1,000 stereos fitted

London mayor Sadiq Khan says £323,000 was spent on the vehicles, which were never approved and are now being sold

GLA spokeswoman said she understood that the stereos, which included radios and CD players, had been installed to the water cannon so police officers operating the vehicles were able to listen to the news while out on the streets. (Guardian)

Who listens to the news on a CD?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... 00-stereos

More importantly, are they seriously suggesting that they'd get up to date info from the news?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 2:23 pm

Maybe Johnson intended the drivers to play martial music, death metal or the Ride of The Valkyries to get themselves in the mood to zap protesters.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 4:04 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Boris Johnson's unused water cannon had £1,000 stereos fitted

London mayor Sadiq Khan says £323,000 was spent on the vehicles, which were never approved and are now being sold

GLA spokeswoman said she understood that the stereos, which included radios and CD players, had been installed to the water cannon so police officers operating the vehicles were able to listen to the news while out on the streets. (Guardian)

Who listens to the news on a CD?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... 00-stereos
More importantly, are they seriously suggesting that they'd get up to date info from the news?

Or even accurate information.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 4:15 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... re-squeeze" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Theresa May pledges to seek long-term solution to social care squeeze

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 4:25 pm

David Davis and his EU exit masterplan -

In a further development, Davis also revealed the government is looking at the Norway-Sweden border as a possible model for how the border could work between Ireland and Northern Ireland, the minister confirmed. (Politice Live, Guardian)

Does anyone know anything about this model, please?

Edited to add -

I've read the Wikipedia entry. I'm not sure that "looking Irish" would work, though.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 4:26 pm

Six local council byelections last week:

Angus - a second Monday poll here in successive weeks saw a distinct change in fortunes; after their gain a week earlier the SNP would have taken control of the council had they held this particular vacancy, but instead they lost it to an Independent who now enjoy an unusual (for STV elections) full slate of all three councillors in this division. This is some way removed from the 2007 result here when things split 2SNP/1Lab - though it should be noted the Labour support here was much more for the person than the party, their vote collapsed both in a previous 2011 by-election (when the Independents made their first breakthrough here, taking a seat from the Nats) and in 2012 when their incumbent stood down and the division split 2Ind/1SNP. Whilst the winning Independent score this time of some 44% was down on their combined score four years ago it was up modestly on the top placed Indy's share, and given (as then) favourable transfers from other parties was easily enough to see off the SNP who saw their share drop by 4 points. Tories made a double figure advance, almost routine for Scotland in recent contests, to over 17% - Labour down again slightly (though as said, their collapse here predates their big Scottish slump) but still double the last placed LibDems, with just 2% though even that is up significantly on 2012.

Tonbridge and Malling DC - Tory hold and comfortably so, raking advantage of reduced competition here to boost their share by 17 points to over 60%. Labour actually elected the two councillors in nearly the same ward in 2003 (there were minor boundary changes before last years polls) but the Tories won both seats in 2007 and held on in 2011 - though both contests were reasonably competitive before the Tories won much more comfortably on GE day last year, taking advantage of split opposition as UKIP, Labour, Green and LibDem all polled respectable shares. Greens and LibDems absent this time but it did little to help the opposition here - Labour with a small increase which at least enabled them to sneak back into second place overall, UKIP a touch down.

Maldon DC - Independent gain from Tory, meaning they hold both seats in this ward for the first time. Tories won both seats here in 2003 and comfortably won a previous 2005 by-election, before having two councillors unopposed in 2007 - so when an Independent split the ward topping the poll in 2011 this was a bit of a surprise. They followed this up by taking about half the vote last year, whilst they declined from that to slightly under 40% this time it was still enough to comfortably see off the Tories who were clearly down themselves to under a quarter of the vote. The only other party contesting on GE day had been the Greens, but their respectable 20% was more than halved now and they were well behind UKIP who polled over 15% in their first outing here at this level. Two other "new arrivals" made up the numbers, Labour in last place with 6% as they were pipped by a candidate obstensibly describing themselves as "Fighting Unsustainable Housing Because We Care", few would realise without being told that this is one of the registered descriptions of the BNP (how, exactly??) Fortunately, not that many were taken in by this wheeze

Newcastle-under-Lyme DC - Independents triumphed here to confirm their hold on both seats in this ward, strictly speaking this is a gain from Labour as the previous councillor had been elected as such in 2014 - but he defected to the Indies not long afterwards (he had also first been elected as a LibDem back in 2010) and the winning candidate is the civil partner of the other Independent who was elected here last year (they had also been voted in as a LibDem originally) As all this suggests, this ward has a rather convoluted recent electoral history - two Labour councillors elected back in 2002, who held their seats until the Tories won them in 2007 and a 2008 by-election. So far, so reasonably normal, but it is now that the fun starts - LibDems gain in 2010, Labour win back a seat in 2011 but then lose it on a hefty swing to the LibDems in yet another 2012 by-election so that it was then their turn to hold both seats in the ward - but both left the party for Labour and Independent respectively and won the last two contests. Got all that? This time round, at least, things were quite straightforward as the Independent stormed to victory with nearly 65% of the vote (having got just under half on GE day) Tories down by double figures, not far ahead of the LibDems who increased on last years low share and managed to beat Labour who themselves fell by 10 points to last place with 8%.

Lancaster DC - Labour hold in an election distinguished mainly by a spectacularly low turnout of just 7%, explainable partly by the fact this ward mostly covers the university campus where polls are never high (there have also been claims made about a lack of publicity) In recent years this has been a rare Labour/Green marginal - Greens winning both seats for the old ward here in 2007 before Labour won them in 2011, then the Greens won one back in 2014 on Euro election day before Labour took three seats in a slightly expanded division on GE day. Their 35 per cent share was little changed whereas the second placed Greens fell back a bit - Tories also slightly down as the LibDems (who won both seats in the former ward back in 2003) came last but doubled their share to nearly 13 per cent.

Telford and Wrekin - Labour gain from Tory in undoubtedly one of their best results in the last few months, it also means that they take overall control of this authority having fallen just short of that in last year's elections. This ward returned two Tory councillors in 2003, 2011 and 2015 and that pattern was only broken when an Independent topped the poll in 2007 only for their seat to return to the blue fold in a previous by-election the following year. Having said that, Labour were close to getting someone elected in both 2003 and (especially) 2011 so this result wasn't totally out of nowhere - but it was still an impressive achievement as (in contrast to the Tonbridge result above) they took advantage of the absence of LibDem and Green candidates this time round compared to last year, boosting their share by over 20 points into the mid forties. Tories were, by way of contrast, down slightly, as were UKIP whose 16% was a decent total for them by recent standards but still a bit of a decline since GE day.

Seven contests this week.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 4:28 pm

Thankyou.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 4:35 pm

I enjoyed this, even though (or maybe because) it's in the Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuter ... uddle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

British-PM-Mays-Brexit-plan-secret-strategy-muddle

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 4:57 pm

From a year ago

Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): May I start, Mr Speaker, by wishing you, all Members of the House and all staff here, and Major Tim Peake, who is not on the planet at this time, a very happy Christmas and a peaceful new year?

The number of days that patients are being kept in hospital because there is nowhere safe to discharge them to has doubled since the Prime Minister took office. On 4 November, I asked him if he could guarantee that there will be no winter crisis in the NHS this winter. He did not answer then, so I wonder whether he will be able to help us with an answer today.

The Prime Minister: First, let me join the right hon. Gentleman and be clear that I do not want to wish him the season’s greetings; I want a full happy Christmas for him and everyone in the House. He specifically asked about the NHS, so let me give him a specific answer. The average stay in hospital has actually fallen since I became Prime Minister from five and a half days to five days. One reason for that is that we kept our promises on the NHS. We put in an extra £12 billion in the last Parliament, and will be putting in £19 billion in cash terms in this Parliament.

Jeremy Corbyn: For the record, I did say happy Christmas. Perhaps the Prime Minister was not listening at the time. If he is so happy about the national health service, will he explain why he has decided to cancel the publication of NHS performance data this winter? There was a time, not that long ago, when the Prime Minister was all in favour of transparency. It was in 2011 when he said:

“Information is power. It lets people hold the powerful to account, giving them the tools they need to take on politicians and bureaucrats.”

Is it because the number of people being kept waiting on trolleys in A&E has gone up more than fourfold that he does not want to publish those statistics?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 4:57 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I enjoyed this, even though (or maybe because) it's in the Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuter ... uddle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

British-PM-Mays-Brexit-plan-secret-strategy-muddle

About time they got one of those document stamp things made up. "Farcical In Confidence".

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 5:01 pm

@PaulfromYorkshire

I noticed that, at PMQs today, that, this time round, Jeremy Corbyn wished people a "prosperous" New Year. Some hopes.

Edited to add -

Blimey - that first sentence of mine was outstandingly crap.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 5:31 pm

Hard to find a single person on Twitter praising May's performance at PMQs today.

And even Guido Fawkes could only manage an attack on Caroline Lucas.

Dare we say it? Well done Jeremy Corbyn and Labour. Keep up the good work.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 5:49 pm

He's certainly got better in PMQs, and fair play to him for that. It's on the news twice a week, and it's important to look sharp. Some of his supporters used to shrug about it all being a bit silly and not proper politics like speaking to a group of your own supporters or something, but nobody can accuse him of that now.

Cameron deftly answered a different question there, I see.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 5:54 pm

PorFavor wrote:David Davis and his EU exit masterplan -

In a further development, Davis also revealed the government is looking at the Norway-Sweden border as a possible model for how the border could work between Ireland and Northern Ireland, the minister confirmed. (Politice Live, Guardian)
Does anyone know anything about this model, please?

Edited to add -

I've read the Wikipedia entry. I'm not sure that "looking Irish" would work, though.

It works by Norway being in the Single Market for a start.

A hard Brexit though open border with Ireland could create some nice smuggling opportunities.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 6:06 pm

Beating Roger to it.

Something resembling a new funding formula.

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/national-fundi ... rity-area/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

London losing most, and some gainers in poorer towns.

Looks a reasonable distribution, but is this what Tory MPs are expecting?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 6:13 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Watching the edu select committee hearing on primary assessment and we'd just got this:

Modern Governor ‏@ModernGovernor 56s57 seconds ago

@MichaelT1979 annoyed as @SuellaFernandes asserts the media myth about widespread "functional illiteracy" among pri pupils #EdSelcttee

It's a really annoying one, that myth. Because the people doing the report do say "not having the functional literacy" to do all they should be able to do. But that doesn't imply what people think it does, or indeed what it sounds like it should. You picture kids looking at bottles of aspirin and guessing how many they need to take.

The academics messed up a bit by choosing that phrase.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 6:15 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:He's certainly got better in PMQs, and fair play to him for that. It's on the news twice a week, and it's important to look sharp. Some of his supporters used to shrug about it all being a bit silly and not proper politics like speaking to a group of your own supporters or something, but nobody can accuse him of that now.

Cameron deftly answered a different question there, I see.

<clears throat>

Actually, it hasn't been for almost two decades now

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 6:40 pm

Good-evening, everyone.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 6:42 pm

Touche!

I've just seen the clip. May was pathetic. How was Labour in government supposed to fund social care 7 years into the future? The council tax capping has caused the short term problems. In terms of a longer term sustainable model, the Tories bailed out of all party talks shouting "Death Tax".

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 6:45 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote: the Tories bailed out of all party talks shouting "Death Tax"

Indeed, let's not forget how totally disgracefully Lansley behaved there

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 6:53 pm

I'm shattered
exhausted

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 6:54 pm

Corbyn might consider pushing for cross party talks as the next stage. He can do very well with this issue.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 7:07 pm

Although its report does not suggest EU citizens collect their documents together, [Helena] Kennedy told the Guardian
it would be sensible to argue that people should make arrangements, especially if they did not have a paper trail through
employment. She said the rights that experts had warned the committee about included being able to travel, set up businesses,
be in employment, qualify for benefits, access education and healthcare, and retain a pension.
“Pensions are one of the great sources of anxiety because will you be able to transport it?
There is a lot of talk about ‘passporting’ of the financial services at a grand level, but what
about the passporting of people’s ordinary rights?” she said.
The prime minister has expressed a desire to protect the rights of EU citizens living in Britain, but has said
that it must be part of reciprocal deal in which Britons on the continent were offered the same protections.

EU citizens should collect proof of living in UK, says Helena Kennedy
Lords Brexit reports: QC advises making file of documents as Lords committee she chairs calls on PM to safeguard rights of EU nationals in Britain

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... it-reports" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An irresponsible Tory disgrace makes one of the worst decisions ever and regular people operating in good faith get their world
destroyed, rights taken away, free movement gone, businesses fail and everything a lot of people used to be able to do now
belong to wealthy people responsible for their predicament in the first place. Historically, it was war forcing people into
this level of change.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 7:10 pm

Mr citizen has a mild temper but tonight he expressed his indignation in fiery terms.
'This mess wouldn't be happening if we'd returned a Labour government!'
I love him.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 7:13 pm

No such qualms about replacing housing support for homeowners if they get sick/disabled with interest bearing loan with charges recouped on death/sale of house,not that they are hypocritial barstewards or anything.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 7:22 pm

HindleA wrote:No such qualms about replacing housing support for homeowners if they get sick/disabled with interest bearing loan with charges recouped on death/sale of house,not that they are hypocritial barstewards or anything.

~~This kind of discriminatory practice, home-owners protected but not renters, is unjust.~~
That's not what HindleA was referring to, I'm sorry. Please see the explanation further down the thread.

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 7:32 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2016/ ... ear-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 7:50 pm

Bonnylad wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2016/ ... ear-labour

Wonderful Glenda Jackson interview

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 8:22 pm

cja referring to replacement of support for mortgage interest,average £29 per week to a possible interest bearing loan with charges.Home owners are not immune from becoming sick/disabled,or less subject to the majority of "reforms" to CT,DLA,ESA freezing of benefits etc.It would cost far more if in Council/HA.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 8:26 pm

Lego is to raise its prices in Britain by 5% next year as it becomes the latest manufacturer to respond to the plunging pound after the UK voted to leave the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... y-sterling

I blame immigration. If they took all the little plastic immigrants out of the sets they'd be able to keep the prices down.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 8:28 pm

HindleA wrote:cja referring to replacement of support for mortgage interest,average £29 per week to a possible interest bearing loan with charges.Home owners are not immune from becoming sick/disabled,or less subject to the majority of "reforms" to CT,DLA,ESA freezing of benefits etc.It would cost far more if in Council/HA.

I've made a mistake. I apologise and understand better now, HindleA, I got it wrong. Rather than homeowners and renters having to face losing their home, both should be offered assistance. I misunderstood and posted too soon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Dec, 2016 8:35 pm

My posts are hard to decipher at the best of times,I blame doing too many cryptic crossword,especially this time of year".The meaning is in there somewhere",or it could be because I am not the most articulate and it is a stream of words which may or may not be connected.