Wednesday 18th January 2017

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 1:04 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:May just won at PMQs because Labour has no substantive opposition to what she is doing. All process and no substance. "You should have given the speech in Parliament."

He "lost" yes but not for the reason you give.

He also asked important questions about your beloved, hallowed, almost fetishised single market. That didn't go well for him.

As Sparrow says

She quotes Corbyn saying he wanted access to the single market, while also criticising May for wanting access to the single market. She has a plan. He does not have a clue.

I'm not after defending Corbyn here. But you are blatantly misrepresenting Labour's approach in your own interests, whatever those are.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 1:08 pm

I think May "won" because she is brimming with confidence after yesterday and of course the EU is not a subject Corbyn has a natural command of.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 1:10 pm

His mistake perhaps was to move on when he potentially had May on the ropes on the "How much will we pay for access to the Single Market?" question.

There will be plenty more opportunities to ask it I guess.....

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 1:20 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:His mistake perhaps was to move on when he potentially had May on the ropes on the "How much will we pay for access to the Single Market?" question.

There will be plenty more opportunities to ask it I guess.....

We pay as a member of the EU, we would pay as a member of the single market, we would pay as a member of the EEA.

I'm at a loss as to what Corbyn is trying to say with this. Better off not having access?

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 1:22 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:On a positive note, May's speech has resolved the issue of the NHS. No more gloom and doom reporting.

They are through it (at least the winter crisis) for the year. There is a sharp uptick in demand at the start of January because people postpone seeking medical care over the Xmas break. That uptick has been and gone. There'll only be another bout of the same if the weather deteriorates.

That isn't meant to deny the reality of the serious problem, just that in news terms they are probably through the worst.

Presumably that's because the seasonal influenza epidemic, which usually peaks in Feb/mar has decided to go early? (Says your crystal ball).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 1:29 pm

Looking like Paul Nuttall is going to stand in Stoke Central.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 1:30 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... k-fees-atm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Link cash machines may start charging because of row about network fees
Some financial firms using network want to reduce fees they pay to allow charge-free withdrawals from most of 70,000 ATMs

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 1:45 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Looking like Paul Nuttall is going to stand in Stoke Central.

As I said the other day, I think that might well be a mistake.

Good for Labour if he's soundly beaten though.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 1:48 pm

Congrats on your promotion.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 2:18 pm

Dr.Hitchin

#Would love the chance to take on fellow Scouser Paul Nuttall in Stoke. Battle of bald Bootle they'll call it. I work in Stoke, do you?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 2:24 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... 24-january" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Supreme court to deliver Brexit ruling on 24 January

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 2:32 pm

HindleA wrote:Dr.Hitchin

#Would love the chance to take on fellow Scouser Paul Nuttall in Stoke. Battle of bald Bootle they'll call it. I work in Stoke, do you?

I like Hitchin

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 3:51 pm

Good morfternoon.

Hundreds of thousands of elderly Britons living in Europe may be forced to return to the UK unless the government guarantees that their healthcare continues to be reiumbursed by the NHS, campaigners for British people settled in Spain and France have warned.

The House of Commons Brexit select committee was told on Wednesday that an unintended consequence of Brexit could be an surge in immigration of British migrants both working and retired.(Politics Live, Guardian)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 4:09 pm

Blue Nose B ‏@BluenosebLawson 34s34 seconds ago
Do you think you're losing your mind?Are you constantly irritable?Do you feel isolated and tearful?
You may have Irritable Brexit Syndrome

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 4:19 pm

Local area health authority have voted unanimously to close both our local walk in centres. This is going to put yet more pressure on A&E.
Crazy.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 4:23 pm

Did something I posted get deleted without trace?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 4:26 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Did something I posted get deleted without trace?

How could I tell?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:10 pm

I gather Corbyn got passionate at PMQs about what Brexit means. Shame he couldn't be bothered a year ago. How did he think it would turn out? That we'd decide EU immigration was good after all? That he'd land a hit against neo-liberalism by getting steel subsidies on the agenda?

Plenty of people were available to tell him the score. Members were overwhelmingly pro-membership and strongly anti-Brexit. None of this rubbed off on him, but I'm sure he and the kitchen Cabinet of McDonnell, Milne and Katy Clark had many an hour of fascinating discussions about "the real issues" and "Greece" and "Ukraine". Like Blair sofa government, except with people who've never had to make anything work.

I know, it's not just his fault. But it can't improve without a new leader, and a new leader is likely to be better on this issue because of where the party members are on it. If he's going to continue with an issue that he's clueless on dominating the agenda, he's a vain disgrace.

When I'm looking to Ken Clarke and Anna Soubry for my opposition, the leader takes one for the team and gives up.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:10 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Did something I posted get deleted without trace?
How could I tell?

I'm sure there were a few more posts here. I can see why they might have gone and I'd me more than happy for that to have happened. But it would be nice to know.

Because otherwise I'm left thinking I'm hallucinating!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Looking like Paul Nuttall is going to stand in Stoke Central.

He's a liability for UKIP, I think. Utterly charmless, which wasn't true of Farage. Worth recalling that Farage didn't get to his 2013 peak (where he scared Cameron into conceding the referendum) overnight.

I hope Labour wins the by-election easily.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:19 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... sing-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Home Office refuses to enforce privacy code on NHS staff using video

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:20 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Looking like Paul Nuttall is going to stand in Stoke Central.
He's a liability for UKIP, I think. Utterly charmless, which wasn't true of Farage. Worth recalling that Farage didn't get to his 2013 peak (where he scared Cameron into conceding the referendum) overnight.

I hope Labour wins the by-election easily.

Ukip are surely a busted flush. May has done a clever job of hoovering up the Ukip/Tories.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:34 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Looking like Paul Nuttall is going to stand in Stoke Central.
He's a liability for UKIP, I think. Utterly charmless, which wasn't true of Farage. Worth recalling that Farage didn't get to his 2013 peak (where he scared Cameron into conceding the referendum) overnight.

I hope Labour wins the by-election easily.
Ukip are surely a busted flush. May has done a clever job of hoovering up the Ukip/Tories.

Still the odd good poll for them, but you'd expect May to get them.

The Tories couldn't come close in Stoke, could they? A decent third last time.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:35 pm

Sorry, got a bit upset with Corbyn up there.

You've heard it from me enough times.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:38 pm

Did we have this?

Nick Robinson ‏@bbcnickrobinson 9h9 hours ago
First post speech concession on potential cost of Brexit - @DavidDavisMP says lorries may face customs checks

No problem though- a driver will phone "Juncker" and tell him his BMWs are stuck too.

The checks will be abandoned for our lorries going out, but we'll stop all theirs anyway because illegal immigrants.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:47 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Looking like Paul Nuttall is going to stand in Stoke Central.
As I said the other day, I think that might well be a mistake.

Good for Labour if he's soundly beaten though.

I wonder if they should get Suzanne Evans in.

The idea that people in "the North" are going to think "That guy with the strong Merseyside accent, he must be just like me!" is very patronizing. Farage showed it's more important to have charm and fluency.

Evans has a good small business Kipper-type background, and can sound sensible.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:55 pm

https://theconversation.com/sex-prescri ... life-71244" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

‘Sex prescriptions’ may not be the answer but we must respect disabled people’s right to a sexual life

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:57 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote: I wonder if they should get Suzanne Evans in.

The idea that people in "the North" are going to think "That guy with the strong Merseyside accent, he must be just like me!" is very patronizing. Farage showed it's more important to have charm and fluency.

Evans has a good small business Kipper-type background, and can sound sensible.

Nuttall polled very badly in his own backyard - about 11% maximum last time out if I recall.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:58 pm

Anything that annoys the Torygraph by definition is a good thing.(re.Direct Payments)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 5:59 pm

A positive suggestion for Corbyn: reading out a letter was a good innovation, because the PM can't respond to it by crowing. When you know the PM's going to be on a real high like today, why not do that?

We are where we are. Customs Union was the policy. Any letters kicking about from small businessmen who don't want their stuff held coming in or out held up by customs checks?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 6:06 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: I wonder if they should get Suzanne Evans in.

The idea that people in "the North" are going to think "That guy with the strong Merseyside accent, he must be just like me!" is very patronizing. Farage showed it's more important to have charm and fluency.

Evans has a good small business Kipper-type background, and can sound sensible.
Nuttall polled very badly in his own backyard - about 11% maximum last time out if I recall.

Went up by 4.8 points. Compared with out of touch Labour going up by 8 points. That's bad.

I recall anti-Labour people tried to start the rumour Euan Blair was running.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 6:29 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:A positive suggestion for Corbyn: reading out a letter was a good innovation, because the PM can't respond to it by crowing. When you know the PM's going to be on a real high like today, why not do that?

We are where we are. Customs Union was the policy. Any letters kicking about from small businessmen who don't want their stuff held coming in or out held up by customs checks?

The cost pf this is going to be astronomical, has anyone thought just how much land will be needed for lorry parks for lorries queuing to get through customs after emerging from the tunnel or docks? Or for our lorries queuing in the back log as France check each and every one at their side?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 6:33 pm

Nobody's thought of anything except keeping foreigners out.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 6:40 pm

When the UK pulls out of Europe that legal entitlement falls aways, said Gareth Horsfall, representing Britons in Italy. “It’s not just a right to stay; it’s also a recognition [of professional entitlements],” he said....professionals whose right to practice law, medicine or other disciplines would no longer be recognised if a deal was not done. They heard that in Italy alone 383 professions were legally recognised.

...speaking a day after Theresa May declared she had sought to seal an early deal guaranteeing the rights of EU citizens in the UK and the rights of Britons in Europe. She said “many countries” had supported this, but “one or two countries” had not.

But groups that have sprung up since the referendum to represent Britons in Europe say the onus is on May to make the first move.

“If it is UK that is triggering this process, it is not 27 states. Therefore, it would be a magnanimous gesture on the part of the prime minister, and a good way of opening negotiations, to begin by saying: ‘We are doing this for EU nationals in the UK; we call on you to do the same,’” said Christopher Chantrey, a Briton living in France, who is part of the Expat Citizen Rights in EU (Ecreu) group.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... healthcare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tory government doesn't give a damn.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 6:42 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Nobody's thought of anything except keeping foreigners out.

It's disgusting and I am ashamed of my country.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 6:49 pm

I'm wondering how far Nissan have actually gone with their investment in Sunderland.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 6:58 pm

Peter Timmins
‏@petertimmins3
Live pictures of countries queuing up to sign new trade deals with UK

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:A positive suggestion for Corbyn: reading out a letter was a good innovation, because the PM can't respond to it by crowing. When you know the PM's going to be on a real high like today, why not do that?

We are where we are. Customs Union was the policy. Any letters kicking about from small businessmen who don't want their stuff held coming in or out held up by customs checks?

I've got one. Resign. Is there anybody left still prepared to wholeheartedly defend him.

This week has been a case study. Compare and contrast the Big Speeches of the two party leaders. One was shambolic. One, although I hated the content, a political triumph.

Judge leaders on whether they gather able people about them Seumad "there is no single market" Milne is Corbyn's right hand man.

Vote Green.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:12 pm

I offered him the same advice up thread.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:24 pm

So, Ukip are parachuting in a non-local candidate for Stoke?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:32 pm

.Talking of Milne. From 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... erendum-eu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tsipras has cards of his own if he wants to play them. He can trigger new elections or call a referendum. Capitulation would destroy Syriza, and Greeks are divided on whether the government should bend the knee. It could still default and leave the euro. Grexit would certainly be painful, but less so than destructive austerity without end.

Yeah bankruptcy and pariah status not painful at all. Greece's GDP figures since Milne pronounced: +1.3, -0.6, +0.4, +0.8.

The only trigger Tsipras had was the one he got off the sheriff in Blazing Saddles. See also May, Theresa this week.

As ever, it's really about something else, the real issues:

From the Brussels perspective, Greece must cave and be seen to cave. Otherwise, other eurozone states that have suffered the troika treatment will get ideas. Even if the day of reckoning is postponed, Syriza must be seen to fail if the rise of other anti-austerity parties such as Spain’s Podemos is to be halted.

The Troika in Spain?

Does he know Spain is owed a load of money by Greece? Good luck to Podemos making political hay with them writing that off?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:33 pm

refitman wrote:So, Ukip are parachuting in a non-local candidate for Stoke?

Looks like it, not sure how Nuttall will go down there. He could do well - unfortunately

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:35 pm

refitman wrote:So, Ukip are parachuting in a non-local candidate for Stoke?

Everywhere outside Central London and Oxbridge is the same place, where real people live. Paul Nuttall is not therefore an outsider. People who live outside the metropolitan and university bubble know this, and will embrace Paul as one of their own.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:42 pm

A UK trade deal with Trump? Be careful what you wish for

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The logical starting point for any negotiation is likely to be the stalled Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) deal between the US and the EU. Backed by the British government, it was controversial among many campaigners in the UK and Europe, because it was seen a template for how multinational businesses wish to erode national regulations in favour of a more unfettered market access.

For a small market like the UK with higher standards of consumer, employee and environmental protection than the US, a future trade deal is more likely to involve American corporations demanding that the British conform to their product standards than the other way around. This is likely to raise a string of issues in several areas: "

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:45 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
refitman wrote:So, Ukip are parachuting in a non-local candidate for Stoke?
Everywhere outside Central London and Oxbridge is the same place, where real people live. Paul Nuttall is not therefore an outsider. People who live outside the metropolitan and university bubble know this, and will embrace Paul as one of their own.

Quite. Can't tell the difference between a scouser and a manc to save my life.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:47 pm

Ryanair Could Scrap U.K. Domestic Routes Once Britain Leaves EU

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ook-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:49 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
refitman wrote:So, Ukip are parachuting in a non-local candidate for Stoke?
Everywhere outside Central London and Oxbridge is the same place, where real people live. Paul Nuttall is not therefore an outsider. People who live outside the metropolitan and university bubble know this, and will embrace Paul as one of their own.
Quite. Can't tell the difference between a scouser and a manc to save my life.

Oy! Big insult right there....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 7:56 pm

The Labour PartyVerified account
‏@UKLabour
By 2022 the Tories will have handed the wealthiest £70 billion in tax cuts – money that could have been for our NHS. RT our TV broadcast

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Not even going to attempt to put a video in...but you can see it in above link)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 8:02 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Everywhere outside Central London and Oxbridge is the same place, where real people live. Paul Nuttall is not therefore an outsider. People who live outside the metropolitan and university bubble know this, and will embrace Paul as one of their own.
Quite. Can't tell the difference between a scouser and a manc to save my life.

Oy! Big insult right there....

It's a gift.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 18 Jan, 2017 8:02 pm

(and a curse)