But have you been interviewed by Sophie Ridge ?HindleA wrote:I was born in Middlesex,registered in Buckinghamshire brought up in Malaya,Aberdeenshire,Cyprus,in a caravan I can't remember where and for a time by a camel called Shirley.Make of that as you will.
Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
No idea who she is,so I doubt it.
Cameron got his supposed favourite football team wrong and forgot how many children he had,not to say a compulsive lying toerag bastard just for perspective.
Cameron got his supposed favourite football team wrong and forgot how many children he had,not to say a compulsive lying toerag bastard just for perspective.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
HyperNormalisation @HNormalisation 4h4 hours ago
More
NO SAFETY NET
Minutes after landing in the US, Theresa May goes straight into her political tightrope routine...
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More
NO SAFETY NET
Minutes after landing in the US, Theresa May goes straight into her political tightrope routine...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
The Prime Minister refused to say whether she knew about the nuclear weapon’s malfunction before declaring that she would be willing to authorise a strike that would kill 100,000 people and before allowing MPs to vote on its renewal
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the ... 40166.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Anna Rascouët-Paz
@rascouet
Re Spicer's lies, this is from someone who worked in a past administration. Important read.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Applies to fooling people about Brexit as well.
@rascouet
Re Spicer's lies, this is from someone who worked in a past administration. Important read.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Applies to fooling people about Brexit as well.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Unfortunately we come across loud and clear as Little Englanders in Europe. It's not calculated to do anything - it's a perfectly reasonable response to a stupidly nationalistic position.As a firm Remain voter and Europhile, I was most discouraged at the response of the German press to Theresa May’s two major speeches this week. Deriding us as “little Englanders” is calculated to anger even Remain voters. While I am not happy with Brexit, and certainly not with a “hard Brexit”, I would say that I am most disappointed with some of the hostile reactions coming from Europe. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/let ... 37921.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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- AngryAsWell
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Sean Spicer just fudged the facts at least 4 times in 5 minutes
http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-tr ... tes-233984" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(refers to above post)
http://www.politico.com/blogs/donald-tr ... tes-233984" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(refers to above post)
Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
tinyclanger2 wrote:Unfortunately we come across loud and clear as Little Englanders in Europe. It's not calculated to do anything - it's a perfectly reasonable response to a stupidly nationalistic position.As a firm Remain voter and Europhile, I was most discouraged at the response of the German press to Theresa May’s two major speeches this week. Deriding us as “little Englanders” is calculated to anger even Remain voters. While I am not happy with Brexit, and certainly not with a “hard Brexit”, I would say that I am most disappointed with some of the hostile reactions coming from Europe. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/let ... 37921.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Surprised they didn't mention "one World Cup".“Little Englanders” have fought two major European wars, against great odds, to protect the right of many of Europe’s peoples to live in a free democracy. I hope that those in Europe who currently ridicule and malign us as a result of the Brexit referendum vote will remember that fact.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
refitman wrote:tinyclanger2 wrote:Unfortunately we come across loud and clear as Little Englanders in Europe. It's not calculated to do anything - it's a perfectly reasonable response to a stupidly nationalistic position.As a firm Remain voter and Europhile, I was most discouraged at the response of the German press to Theresa May’s two major speeches this week. Deriding us as “little Englanders” is calculated to anger even Remain voters. While I am not happy with Brexit, and certainly not with a “hard Brexit”, I would say that I am most disappointed with some of the hostile reactions coming from Europe. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/let ... 37921.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Surprised they didn't mention "one World Cup".“Little Englanders” have fought two major European wars, against great odds, to protect the right of many of Europe’s peoples to live in a free democracy. I hope that those in Europe who currently ridicule and malign us as a result of the Brexit referendum vote will remember that fact.
Not many voters around who fought two World Wars at referendum time.......why do we find it acceptable for people to appropriate the actions of others to justify their comments?
I know at least one veteran, Harry Leslie Smith, who has a different view.....
We British should be proud of what our Grandparents and Great Grandparents did......but using it in this context is unacceptable to me....just as using the actions of people in Germany in the 30s to define the current generation would be
And to my further dismay is that we, as a nation, spend a lot of our time going on about the 'Heroes' but then spend our votes in dismantling their legacy of social housing, National Health, Social Security.......
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
http://boingboing.net/2017/01/20/this-s ... -it-u.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trump. I suspect he won't like it.
We should be doing the same about Brexit. But we have already given up because the people have spoken. (tug/doff)
Trump. I suspect he won't like it.
We should be doing the same about Brexit. But we have already given up because the people have spoken. (tug/doff)
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
in other news I had jam again today. and purchased more for next week.
(still apricot, still posh - but not as posh, indeed, as if it were preserve)
(still apricot, still posh - but not as posh, indeed, as if it were preserve)
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Clegg, getting a bit carried away about Lib Dem support. But at least joining the Brexit- Trump- Putin dots.
To use a slightly irritating expression used by people on the "real left", which side are you on?Mr Clegg said today: “I think that the Labour party is in danger of being cannibalised by Ukip at one end and the Liberal Democrats at the other.
"I think that this ambivalence or this absolute lack of clarity about the biggest issue of our times, sort of dithering rather helplessly in the middle of the road Is only going to make their fate even worse.”
He insisted the Lib Dems’ “clear position” on the “new dividing line” of Europe would lead to his own party’s resurgence.
“I certainly think this whole dividing line about - 'are you open, are you closed, are you in favour in embracing Europe or not?' - is the new dividing line in politics and will continue to be so particularly in the age of Trump and Putin and the sort of nativism and chauvinism of people like that," he said.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
I am on the side of neither destroying the country nor alienating its most important partners beyond business (society, culture, security etc). Allowing us to wreck our nation because that's what "we" asked for is as grossly negligent (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ency-plans" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) as allowing us to ask for it in the first place.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
I'm on your side, Clanger.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Clegg, getting a bit carried away about Lib Dem support. But at least joining the Brexit- Trump- Putin dots.
To use a slightly irritating expression used by people on the "real left", which side are you on?Mr Clegg said today: “I think that the Labour party is in danger of being cannibalised by Ukip at one end and the Liberal Democrats at the other.
"I think that this ambivalence or this absolute lack of clarity about the biggest issue of our times, sort of dithering rather helplessly in the middle of the road Is only going to make their fate even worse.”
He insisted the Lib Dems’ “clear position” on the “new dividing line” of Europe would lead to his own party’s resurgence.
“I certainly think this whole dividing line about - 'are you open, are you closed, are you in favour in embracing Europe or not?' - is the new dividing line in politics and will continue to be so particularly in the age of Trump and Putin and the sort of nativism and chauvinism of people like that," he said.
Clegg, the master political strategist!
Made such as good job of his last major decision didn't he?
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Wherever you stand politically there is without a doubt a dividing line between those who want in the EU and those who don't. In some ways a massive fracturing of the UK's main parties around said divide could potentially leave all parties wanting PR and groups that are more like-minded forming effective coalitions.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
It's the fact that Clegg isn't a genius that's rather the point. He's the one being left to join the dots. That's where we are.
McDonnell sounded better today, and fair play for that. I worry that he and the leadership are off the pace though, because of their prejudice v the EU and misjudging Trump supporters as "core Labour" types.
But we'll see.
McDonnell sounded better today, and fair play for that. I worry that he and the leadership are off the pace though, because of their prejudice v the EU and misjudging Trump supporters as "core Labour" types.
But we'll see.
Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Yes.AngryAsWell wrote:Anna Rascouët-Paz
@rascouet
Re Spicer's lies, this is from someone who worked in a past administration. Important read.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Applies to fooling people about Brexit as well.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
All these people saying that we cannot accept the referendum decision please tell me in simple steps how we stop it happening.....and please try to keep it realistic
I will lay mine out but it is based on the assumption that A50 is revocable....
1. Allow Government to enact A50 based on the referendum vote (may be able to have some amendments)
2. Monitor the progress of negotiations and highlight where the UK will be worse off and make a noise about it
3. If (when) the public realise the damage then push for revocation, either via a second referendum or a Parliamentary decision
Davies has already promised a Parliamentary vote on the final deal where he suggested Deal vs No Deal but if there was the option for revocation and public opinion was clearly against leaving then that vote may be more critical than has been thought - and offer the Government a way out as well
If A50 is not revocable then we are up shit creek - Parliamentary arithmetic will not allow for blocking and there are no prospects for another referendum......or a General Election.
I would prefer that we knew the answer on revocation now rather than in a year's time......I still think there is a possibility the EU will offer it as a carrot at some point as they start using the stick!
Labour can shout and scream like the Lib Dems about the A50 vote now but that is just posturing......it would only be done in the hope of minimising political damage in 2020....I am not at all convinced it will make any difference and to be honest I am not that bothered arguing it as it is based on a view of the future when there are so many other variables
If someone can come up with a credible way to block A50 politically without being accused of going against the referendum result then I am all ears
I will lay mine out but it is based on the assumption that A50 is revocable....
1. Allow Government to enact A50 based on the referendum vote (may be able to have some amendments)
2. Monitor the progress of negotiations and highlight where the UK will be worse off and make a noise about it
3. If (when) the public realise the damage then push for revocation, either via a second referendum or a Parliamentary decision
Davies has already promised a Parliamentary vote on the final deal where he suggested Deal vs No Deal but if there was the option for revocation and public opinion was clearly against leaving then that vote may be more critical than has been thought - and offer the Government a way out as well
If A50 is not revocable then we are up shit creek - Parliamentary arithmetic will not allow for blocking and there are no prospects for another referendum......or a General Election.
I would prefer that we knew the answer on revocation now rather than in a year's time......I still think there is a possibility the EU will offer it as a carrot at some point as they start using the stick!
Labour can shout and scream like the Lib Dems about the A50 vote now but that is just posturing......it would only be done in the hope of minimising political damage in 2020....I am not at all convinced it will make any difference and to be honest I am not that bothered arguing it as it is based on a view of the future when there are so many other variables
If someone can come up with a credible way to block A50 politically without being accused of going against the referendum result then I am all ears
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
A50 will be revocable or not depending on what's useful to whoever's in charge at the time. I think that has become rather clear.
Since we are no longer dealing with what pretends or aspires to be or even appear rational then we will need a different approach to have any kind of effect.
Since we are no longer dealing with what pretends or aspires to be or even appear rational then we will need a different approach to have any kind of effect.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Mike Rumbles is quite correct in saying it was the Lab/Libdem coalition that introduced the free bus passes in Scotland. (Can't remember who was in charge of transport at the time). The comment by 'Maureen Hancock' btl is, of course, untrue as transport is a devolved matter and Gordon Brown was never an MSP.HindleA wrote:https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/think-you ... ink-again/
SNP consulting on increasing age eligibility for bus pass.
(N.B.note response by Libdem)
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Tubby Isaacs wrote:It's the fact that Clegg isn't a genius that's rather the point. He's the one being left to join the dots. That's where we are.
McDonnell sounded better today, and fair play for that. I worry that he and the leadership are off the pace though, because of their prejudice v the EU and misjudging Trump supporters as "core Labour" types.
But we'll see.
Can you clarify what you mean as Trump supporters being 'core Labour'? - I have read enough Labour MPs suggesting that the problem is that they don't listen to people concerns on immigration.....some of the characteristics of Trump supporters in being affected by globalisation and job insecurity are things that should concern Labour
And this idea that being against the EU as being prejudiced and lacking open-mindedness is, if I may be bold, one of the reasons the referendum was lost - it smacks of arrogance
The EU is far from perfect and it has faults that it is not prepared to confront. Many of us voted to stay in the EU despite the EU rather than because of it.....and I would have wanted any Government post-Remain to look at making the EU work more for the masses as well as helping business thrive.
The EU is also hamstrung by it reflecting the make-up of Governments within it...and that is looking more and more right wing....
I
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Actually, I gather McDonnell was parading that "£120bn uncollected tax" drivel again this morning. I've never understood why Gordo never collected it, or indeed Osborne or Hammond.
Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Haven't read it yet, but your comment started a train of thought, maybe this is the test politicians should apply when considering whether a referendum is a good idea. Imagine two separate scenarios, a close result one way and then the other. What would be the likely response of the losers? If you conclude that in at least one of the scenarios they'd throw the toys out of the pram, don't do it.Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... SApp_Other
The headline's a little misleading, the article isn't specifically about the EU referendum, but rather touches on it in passing and raises some interesting questions about the firmness in which the leave result has been asserted when we all know this would not have been the case if the result had been reversed.Amartya Sen: ‘Referendums are like opinion polls. Sometimes they’re very wrong’
I know leavers are accusing remainers of being bad losers, but there's no comparison with how it would have been the other way round. It's hard to see why the leavers appear so unhappy, when they're getting their own way. Maybe we were supposed to save them from themselves.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
I have to disagree, I don't think it is clear at all...have you a link that backs that up?tinyclanger2 wrote:A50 will be revocable or not depending on what's useful to whoever's in charge at the time. I think that has become rather clear.
Since we are no longer dealing with what pretends or aspires to be or even appear rational then we will need a different approach to have any kind of effect.
It will be legally revocable or not......the ECJ are the competent authority for that I would guess
However, if the EU are prepared to accept it then it will probably be enough (would UKIP go to the ECJ?)
Whether the UK Government use it or not will depend upon circumstances and the way the negotiations are going
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
The language of kids in a playground.gilsey wrote:Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... SApp_Other
I know leavers are accusing remainers of being bad losers, but there's no comparison with how it would have been the other way round. It's hard to see why the leavers appear so unhappy, when they're getting their own way. Maybe we were supposed to save them from themselves.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Or somewhere other than a playground - the exact location is not the point.
(before anyone starts)
(before anyone starts)
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
It seems to me that it would be prudent to await the ruling from Dublin/EU courts as to whether A50 is revocable - before it's signed. Brexiters will, no doubt, disagree!tinyclanger2 wrote:A50 will be revocable or not depending on what's useful to whoever's in charge at the time. I think that has become rather clear.
Since we are no longer dealing with what pretends or aspires to be or even appear rational then we will need a different approach to have any kind of effect.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68081.html
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
On occasion, people over time have new ideas that other people haven't thought of.
When this happens (in the modern world) it means that there isn't a "link" to "prove" it's "true"
When this happens (in the modern world) it means that there isn't a "link" to "prove" it's "true"
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Indeed. But I still wouldn't trust it. We are increasingly being led by a bunch of dangerous buffoons. I fear we are in uncharted territory.Eric_WLothian wrote:It seems to me that it would be prudent to await the ruling from Dublin/EU courts as to whether A50 is revocable - before it's signed. Brexiters will, no doubt, disagree!tinyclanger2 wrote:A50 will be revocable or not depending on what's useful to whoever's in charge at the time. I think that has become rather clear.
Since we are no longer dealing with what pretends or aspires to be or even appear rational then we will need a different approach to have any kind of effect.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68081.html
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
The assumption seems to be that the Irish court won't want to judge the issue and will push it up to the European court, which will give a definitive judgement. Apparently our "enemies of the people" can't be trusted to do the same.tinyclanger2 wrote:Indeed. But I still wouldn't trust it. We are increasingly being led by a bunch of dangerous buffoons. I fear we are in uncharted territory.Eric_WLothian wrote:It seems to me that it would be prudent to await the ruling from Dublin/EU courts as to whether A50 is revocable - before it's signed. Brexiters will, no doubt, disagree!tinyclanger2 wrote:A50 will be revocable or not depending on what's useful to whoever's in charge at the time. I think that has become rather clear.
Since we are no longer dealing with what pretends or aspires to be or even appear rational then we will need a different approach to have any kind of effect.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68081.html
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
He has no reasonable economic advisers any more, so it is back to bullshit.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Actually, I gather McDonnell was parading that "£120bn uncollected tax" drivel again this morning. I've never understood why Gordo never collected it, or indeed Osborne or Hammond.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Eric_WLothian wrote:The assumption seems to be that the Irish court won't want to judge the issue and will push it up to the European court, which will give a definitive judgement. Apparently our "enemies of the people" can't be trusted to do the same.tinyclanger2 wrote:Indeed. But I still wouldn't trust it. We are increasingly being led by a bunch of dangerous buffoons. I fear we are in uncharted territory.Eric_WLothian wrote: It seems to me that it would be prudent to await the ruling from Dublin/EU courts as to whether A50 is revocable - before it's signed. Brexiters will, no doubt, disagree!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68081.html
Having that knowledge before invoking A50 would be very, very useful
I wonder if someone will ask the question at some point - may be worried to as you can imagine the backlash if anyone was seen to undermine the referendum result but I would say it is key to our negotiations
I agree that it will end up at the ECJ, Ireland would wisely want to stay out of it
Trouble is I can guess this will take a long time......will also be interesting to see the judgement of the Supreme Court as the ability to revoke would actually make the decision to launch the process less fraught, especially if they say (am I dreaming here?) that it is not the launch of A50 that needs Parliamentary consent but the actual decision to leave at the end!
Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
I agree. I would find it very hard to believe that the EU wouldn't find a way to let us stay in if we changed our minds and if it suited them.tinyclanger2 wrote:A50 will be revocable or not depending on what's useful to whoever's in charge at the time. I think that has become rather clear.
Similarly, if A50 was revocable but the EU didn't want us, they'd find another way to keep us on the exit path.
I don't think we should get hung up on the irrevocability of A50.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
gilsey wrote:I agree. I would find it very hard to believe that the EU wouldn't find a way to let us stay in if we changed our minds and if it suited them.tinyclanger2 wrote:A50 will be revocable or not depending on what's useful to whoever's in charge at the time. I think that has become rather clear.
Similarly, if A50 was revocable but the EU didn't want us, they'd find another way to keep us on the exit path.
I don't think we should get hung up on the irrevocability of A50.
Fair comment, and my assumption has always been that there is a chance it would be (as someone who likes clarity, the lack of it is uncomfortable)
The only risk with this is there is the political view which we have talked about here, and the legal one. If someone tries to revoke and is taken to court then the ECJ may say 'non' and then the only way back is to come back would be to reapply without all our negotiated opt-outs (likely commitment to move to Euro, Schengen)
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Sorry if we've already done this and I'm not certain it's real, but great typo
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Gilsey is right. The EU would find a way to call it off, and I think offers will be made to that effect.
But being able to call it off, with an unquestioned legal position, would be a boost. "You don't want us back in, arguing our deregulation stuff inside again, do you?"
But being able to call it off, with an unquestioned legal position, would be a boost. "You don't want us back in, arguing our deregulation stuff inside again, do you?"
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Hadn't seen this.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/britains-po ... 1484859707" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.wsj.com/articles/britains-po ... 1484859707" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Britain is vying for the award for the most unsuccessful currency depreciation in history. More than a year after it began, the U.K. has nothing but inflation to show for the pound’s plunge.
Net international trade subtracted 0.9 percentage points from year-over-year GDP growth in the third quarter. The monthly trade deficit oscillates wildly, but has remained on a deteriorating trend. Volumes of goods exports have flatlined, while volumes of goods imports have surged, reaching an all-time high in November despite a 10% year-over-year jump in prices.
Exports will pick up meaningfully only when new firms enter the market to compete with and undercut existing exporters. But uncertainty about the Brexit process likely means that this will be a slow and tentative process. Who would invest to export now, when Prime Minister Theresa May threatens to fall back on World Trade Organization rules for trade with Europe if her Brexit demands aren’t met? Without preferential access to Europe’s single market, Britain’s exports to the European Union would be subject to tariffs averaging 5% and burdensome customs checks.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
I agree the timescale may be lengthy but it gives another option for the A50 vote - "wait to see if it's revocable before signing". The Dublin route is probably quicker and more diplomatic. If the SC were to decide (either way) the 'losers' would want to escalate to the ECJ anyway. If that happened, it would reignite the "EU overruling the UK" argument.howsillyofme1 wrote:Eric_WLothian wrote:The assumption seems to be that the Irish court won't want to judge the issue and will push it up to the European court, which will give a definitive judgement. Apparently our "enemies of the people" can't be trusted to do the same.tinyclanger2 wrote: Indeed. But I still wouldn't trust it. We are increasingly being led by a bunch of dangerous buffoons. I fear we are in uncharted territory.
Having that knowledge before invoking A50 would be very, very useful
I wonder if someone will ask the question at some point - may be worried to as you can imagine the backlash if anyone was seen to undermine the referendum result but I would say it is key to our negotiations
I agree that it will end up at the ECJ, Ireland would wisely want to stay out of it
Trouble is I can guess this will take a long time......will also be interesting to see the judgement of the Supreme Court as the ability to revoke would actually make the decision to launch the process less fraught, especially if they say (am I dreaming here?) that it is not the launch of A50 that needs Parliamentary consent but the actual decision to leave at the end!
I would be happier if it had been established that if the 'deal' was unacceptable we could (at least in theory) legally reinstate the status quo.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
They could, of course, offer a deal which involved us staying a member, perhaps with some trivial concession to save face all round. Trouble is, they could take the opposite view and just say f*** off (diplomatically, of course).Tubby Isaacs wrote:Gilsey is right. The EU would find a way to call it off, and I think offers will be made to that effect.
But being able to call it off, with an unquestioned legal position, would be a boost. "You don't want us back in, arguing our deregulation stuff inside again, do you?"
At least if A50 could definitely be revoked, it would negate the latter possibility.
Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Agree with what you've said,howsillyofme1 wrote:All these people saying that we cannot accept the referendum decision please tell me in simple steps how we stop it happening.....and please try to keep it realistic
I will lay mine out but it is based on the assumption that A50 is revocable....
1. Allow Government to enact A50 based on the referendum vote (may be able to have some amendments)
2. Monitor the progress of negotiations and highlight where the UK will be worse off and make a noise about it
3. If (when) the public realise the damage then push for revocation, either via a second referendum or a Parliamentary decision
Davies has already promised a Parliamentary vote on the final deal where he suggested Deal vs No Deal but if there was the option for revocation and public opinion was clearly against leaving then that vote may be more critical than has been thought - and offer the Government a way out as well
If A50 is not revocable then we are up shit creek - Parliamentary arithmetic will not allow for blocking and there are no prospects for another referendum......or a General Election.
I would prefer that we knew the answer on revocation now rather than in a year's time......I still think there is a possibility the EU will offer it as a carrot at some point as they start using the stick!
Labour can shout and scream like the Lib Dems about the A50 vote now but that is just posturing......it would only be done in the hope of minimising political damage in 2020....I am not at all convinced it will make any difference and to be honest I am not that bothered arguing it as it is based on a view of the future when there are so many other variables
If someone can come up with a credible way to block A50 politically without being accused of going against the referendum result then I am all ears
I think there's a need at this point to (while still accepting A50 will be declared) at least stand against T.May's claims that everyone is coming together & are impatient for process to start. Maybe pushing for clarity on whether process is revocable, and/or scope of parliamentary vote, referendum or election at the end would be useful, possibly refusing to vote for triggering article 50 until answer is determined.
Labour probably wouldn't have numbers to make this work, but it would be an important principal & maybe help show some support for remain whilst not going against referendum result.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
I think you mean "A Plan"...tinybgoat wrote:
Agree with what you've said,
I think there's a need at this point to (while still accepting A50 will be declared) at least stand against T.May's claims that everyone is coming together & are impatient for process to start. Maybe pushing for clarity on whether process is revocable, and/or scope of parliamentary vote, referendum or election at the end would be useful, possibly refusing to vote for triggering article 50 until answer is determined.
Labour probably wouldn't have numbers to make this work, but it would be an important principal & maybe help show some support for remain whilst not going against referendum result.
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Meet the PressVerified account
@MeetThePress
"Alternative facts are not facts. They are falsehoods," Chuck Todd tells Pres. Trump's counselor Kellyanne Conway this morning. WATCH:
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#alternativefacts https://twitter.com/hashtag/alternativefacts?src=hash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
@MeetThePress
"Alternative facts are not facts. They are falsehoods," Chuck Todd tells Pres. Trump's counselor Kellyanne Conway this morning. WATCH:
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
#alternativefacts https://twitter.com/hashtag/alternativefacts?src=hash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Anti-Trump protesters charged with ‘felony rioting’ face 10-year jail sentences
Police used tear gas, stun grenades, water cannon and pepper spray to subdue demonstrators
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 40071.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Police used tear gas, stun grenades, water cannon and pepper spray to subdue demonstrators
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 40071.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
They're not the ones looking and behaving like nationalist frothers. They can make offers, sincerely, or not, and we'll make arses of ourselves.Eric_WLothian wrote:They could, of course, offer a deal which involved us staying a member, perhaps with some trivial concession to save face all round. Trouble is, they could take the opposite view and just say f*** off (diplomatically, of course).Tubby Isaacs wrote:Gilsey is right. The EU would find a way to call it off, and I think offers will be made to that effect.
But being able to call it off, with an unquestioned legal position, would be a boost. "You don't want us back in, arguing our deregulation stuff inside again, do you?"
At least if A50 could definitely be revoked, it would negate the latter possibility.
They can also do a good cop-bad cop with the two negotiators. Verhofstadt representing the Parliament could be the good one, blah blah our British MEP colleagues are sensible pragmatic people, deals to be done, blah, blah.
Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
It's me new phone innit. must be improved predictive texting, I typed 'plan' & it came out with some unintelligible twaddle.Eric_WLothian wrote:I think you mean "A Plan"...tinybgoat wrote:
Agree with what you've said,
I think there's a need at this point to (while still accepting A50 will be declared) at least stand against T.May's claims that everyone is coming together & are impatient for process to start. Maybe pushing for clarity on whether process is revocable, and/or scope of parliamentary vote, referendum or election at the end would be useful, possibly refusing to vote for triggering article 50 until answer is determined.
Labour probably wouldn't have numbers to make this work, but it would be an important principal & maybe help show some support for remain whilst not going against referendum result.
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
And that's the trouble. Whatever May & Co might say they want, the EU can offer anything between the two extremes I suggested above - and say take it or leave it. Signing A50 is a huge step in the dark and if it's not revocable we're at the mercy of the 27 states, without any credible negotiating position whatsoever.Tubby Isaacs wrote:They're not the ones looking and behaving like nationalist frothers. They can make offers, sincerely, or not, and we'll make arses of ourselves.Eric_WLothian wrote:They could, of course, offer a deal which involved us staying a member, perhaps with some trivial concession to save face all round. Trouble is, they could take the opposite view and just say f*** off (diplomatically, of course).Tubby Isaacs wrote:Gilsey is right. The EU would find a way to call it off, and I think offers will be made to that effect.
But being able to call it off, with an unquestioned legal position, would be a boost. "You don't want us back in, arguing our deregulation stuff inside again, do you?"
At least if A50 could definitely be revoked, it would negate the latter possibility.
They can also do a good cop-bad cop with the two negotiators. Verhofstadt representing the Parliament could be the good one, blah blah our British MEP colleagues are sensible pragmatic people, deals to be done, blah, blah.
- tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
Exactly.
Triggering it BEFORE WE KNOW WHAT IT ALL MIGHT MEAN should be opposed by the opposition (et al) and any sane Tory (including Leavers).
Triggering it BEFORE WE KNOW WHAT IT ALL MIGHT MEAN should be opposed by the opposition (et al) and any sane Tory (including Leavers).
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
- tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
I'm sorry to say that today is the first day I have ever come across swan upping.
Is it in the British citizenship test by any chance?
Is it in the British citizenship test by any chance?
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
- tinyclanger2
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Re: Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd January 2017
apologies for the upper case.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'