Tuesday 24th January 2017

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Anyone seen Hugo?

[RogerOThornhill]

Anyone seen Hugo?

SpinningHugo ‏@SpinningHugo 3h3 hours ago

@KenOliphant @jamessflee I am away all morning from now and so won't find out result for hours. So no doubt will comeback to mockery.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Anyone seen Hugo?

SpinningHugo ‏@SpinningHugo 3h3 hours ago

@KenOliphant @jamessflee I am away all morning from now and so won't find out result for hours. So no doubt will comeback to mockery.

[HindleA]

Hugoexit

[PorFavor]

@StephenDolan

Yes - an Impact Assessment would be good. But the NHS Risk Register springs to mind.

[HindleA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hmrc ... nse-claims" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Press release
HMRC releases most optimistic Self Assessment expense claims

[NonOxCol]

Even if you think Corbyn is useless (and I do), he's got nothing on this preposterous muppet:

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[AnatolyKasparov]

The government should win

https://spinninghugo.wordpress.com/2016 ... ment-lost/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well done

Though I do note they have got their way re the devolved parliaments/assemblies, not insignificant.

[PorFavor]

Iain Duncan Smith, the Conservative former work and pensions secretary and prominent leave campaigner, told BBC News that the supreme court was stepping into “new territory” with today’s judgment.

They [the supreme court] have stepped into new territory here, where they have actually told parliament not just that they should do something, but actually what they should do. I think that leads further down the road to real constitutional issues about who is supreme in this role. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Yes. Ruling on points of law is entirely "new territory" to them.

[Tubby Isaacs]

These, from one of Labour's Brexit team seems to set out their position.

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incl.

Matthew Pennycook MP ‏@mtpennycook 35m35 minutes ago

1) That a detailed Government plan for Brexit is published before Article 50 is triggered, along with robust impact assessments.

i.e. that speech that May gave is not a "detailed Government plan" no matter of she thinks she's done it already.

I like the call for robust impact assessments. How can that be strongly argued against? May's March deadline is self-imposed and arbitrary.

That's the way to go.

How can we have a song and dance about "industrial strategy" and no plan for Brexit?

Wales shows the way.

[StephenDolan]

These, from one of Labour's Brexit team seems to set out their position.

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incl.
i.e. that speech that May gave is not a "detailed Government plan" no matter of she thinks she's done it already.

I like the call for robust impact assessments. How can that be strongly argued against? May's March deadline is self-imposed and arbitrary.

That's the way to go.

How can we have a song and dance about "industrial strategy" and no plan for Brexit?

Wales shows the way.

' We’ve said repeatedly that we accept and respect the outcome of the referendum. It follows from that we don’t seek to block the prime minister from starting the negotiations. But we’ve said all along that the terms of the negotiations and the role of parliament in this is really important. So we will be pushing for amendments'
Starmer is rather quite good at this high wire balancing. Starting negotiations, not waiving through, free pass, yada yada yada.

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/li ... ances-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Business Business live
BT shares plunge 19% as Italian accounting scandal deepens – business live

[PorFavor]

@NonOxbridgeCol

Whoops-ish.






Edited to add an "@"

[AnatolyKasparov]

Yes, he (Starmer) has the odd glitch but is generally handling his brief very well.

And be in no doubt he speaks for most of the party, not the likes of John "tremendous opportunity" McDonnell.

[yahyah]

Any chance Labour people could drop ''the will of the people'' from their statements or interviews ?
It just reinforces the use of it by the right wing media and people like Farage.

[PorFavor]

Any chance Labour people could drop ''the will of the people'' from their statements or interviews ?
It just reinforces the use of it by the right wing media and people like Farage.

It's the new "hard-working families".

[AnatolyKasparov]

But we come back to the arguments we have been having for a while now.

People *did* vote to leave the EU, and that cannot be ignored. That doesn't mean they voted for whatever mess of pottage May wants to serve up.

Between those two things, there is actually a fair bit of space where Labour can set out a distinctive and coherent position.

[StephenDolan]

Any chance Labour people could drop ''the will of the people'' from their statements or interviews ?
It just reinforces the use of it by the right wing media and people like Farage.

Yes, please. It grates.

[StephenDolan]

But we come back to the arguments we have been having for a while now.

People *did* vote to leave the EU, and that cannot be ignored. That doesn't mean they voted for whatever mess of pottage May wants to serve up.

Between those two things, there is actually a fair bit of space where Labour can set out a distinctive and coherent position.

Which I get the impression that Starmer is trying to place Labour.

[yahyah]

It's the language ''the will of the people'' that is the problem.
Also that Labour seem terrified to even suggest that because of the misinformation and nasty campaigning, and the complete lack of clarity about what would happen after the vote, and that people who voted to Leave didn't all vote for the same vision of Brexit etc.

How about a little courage ? Or even a lot of it.

[RogerOThornhill]

Worth reading for a complete and utter take-down of IDS.

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[Eric_WLothian]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hmrc ... nse-claims


Press release
HMRC releases most optimistic Self Assessment expense claims

Can't help wondering who was responsible for No 7 on the list. ("Don't tell 'im Smith").

[StephenDolan]

Chuka keeping TWOTP going. Marvellous.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Chuka keeping TWOTP going. Marvellous.

Only last spring the Graun had a massive, egregious puff piece telling us he would soon be Labour leader. Further comment really is superfluous isn't it?

[StephenDolan]

Chuka keeping TWOTP going. Marvellous.

Only last spring the Graun had a massive, egregious puff piece telling us he would soon be Labour leader. Further comment really is superfluous isn't it?

Him and Kinnock with their weather vane approach is disgraceful tbh.

[yahyah]

Yvette Cooper used ''the will of the people''.

[nickyinnorfolk]

Brexit latest: Liberal Democrats say they will oppose Article 50 unless there's a second EU referendum
'This Tory government are keen to laud the democratic process when it suits them, but will not give the people a voice over the final deal,' Tim Farron says

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 42976.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gilsey]

Worth reading for a complete and utter take-down of IDS.

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He's always been like that though, hasn't he, detached from reality. In charge of our social security system for 5 years, and we think the americans are daft for voting for trump.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Yvette Cooper used ''the will of the people''.

She is very much one of the "very real concerns" gang.

[yahyah]

Farron's written to Corbyn asking for him to clarify his position. The letter is on this link.

http://www.libdemvoice.org/tim-farron-w ... 53061.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[RogerOThornhill]

Peter Walker ‏@peterwalker99 6m6 minutes ago

David Davis making the argument in Commons that when people voted to leave the EU they knew it would mean leaving the single market. Hmmm.

[yahyah]

<waves to Lost Soul>

[RogerOThornhill]

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[yahyah]

£200 smackers. Ouch.

[RogerOThornhill]

Interesting...

Jason Groves ‏@JasonGroves1 27m27 minutes ago

Tory Remainers (Soubry, Grieve, Burt, Morgan etc) lining up to back Labour over need for Brexit White Paper - Govt could hv trouble on this

[Lost Soul]

<waves to Lost Soul>

Yo !

( I've joined the BMC... )

Not so lost - well actually, getting lost somewhere nice !

[Tubby Isaacs]

Chuka keeping TWOTP going. Marvellous.

Yeah he's all over the place. Got all the political cover he needs by his constituency huge majority for Remain.

[Willow904]

Laura Kuenssberg ✔ @bbclaurak
Senior member of shadow cabinet says Labour MPs will be whipped to vote for Article 50 despite ructions last week when whip was first mooted
1:09 PM - 24 Jan 2017

Is it really necessary to decide and announce this before the bill has even been seen and the scope for amendments assessed?

[yahyah]

Is it accurate ?

[Willow904]

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... 50-trigger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Amendments in the Commons may be hampered by the fact that the Government probably won’t introduce a ‘money resolution’ – which is needed to authorise a bill to do things that cost money. Without a money resolution, amendments that would involve spending money – to afford a second referendum, for example – won’t be allowed.

Which leads to the question of what amendments would be possible and how do you achieve a majority for anything at all useful. Do we think the SNP will be trying to achieve similar things to the Libdems and Labour? I don't know. I can't say I have high hopes. It may have been better for Labour if the government had won it's appeal so Labour were never in a position to vote for or against Brexit, especially given now, since May's speech, such a parliamentary vote will be claimed as a mandate for a Tory hard Brexit, regardless of what Labour says to the contrary.

[Willow904]

Is it accurate ?

Seeing as Corbyn has already said as much, I don't see why it wouldn't be. It's consistent with his position all along, isn't it.

[yahyah]

Hi JA. How did the canvassing in Stoke go ? Have you time to tell us what feedback from voters has been like ?

[HindleA]

Hunt in front of select committee


http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Inde ... 06341ae308" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Subject to procedure being suspended,ahem.

[StephenDolan]

Is it accurate ?

Seeing as Corbyn has already said as much, I don't see why it wouldn't be. It's consistent with his position all along, isn't it.

Forgive me if I take a pinch of salt with, after the Guardian whip alternative fact fiasco.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Laura Kuenssberg ✔ @bbclaurak
Senior member of shadow cabinet says Labour MPs will be whipped to vote for Article 50 despite ructions last week when whip was first mooted
1:09 PM - 24 Jan 2017

Is it really necessary to decide and announce this before the bill has even been seen and the scope for amendments assessed?

Indeed. The new approach. It's new, it's snappy, it's populist, it's Trump, it's rubbish.

Talking of Trump, has the scrapping of TPP registered with the front bench yet? Relevant to Britain's Hard Brexit plan that the US is led by a protectionist?

[citizenJA]

"The fact that withdrawal from the EU would remove some existing domestic rights of UK residents also
renders it impermissible for the Government to withdraw from the EU Treaties without prior Parliamentary authority.

[further judgement text]

The 2016 referendum is of great political significance. However, its legal significance is determined by what Parliament
included in the statute authorising it, and that statute simply provided for the referendum to be held without specifying the
consequences. The change in the law required to implement the referendum’s outcome must be made in the only way permitted
by the UK constitution, namely by legislation. The Government accepts that the resolution of the House of Commons on 7 December
2016 calling on ministers to give notice under Article 50 by 31 March 2017 is a political act which does not affect the issues arising in
the appeals...."

http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2017/5(image1).pdf

Good-afternoon, everyone.

[Willow904]

The party's international affairs spokesman Alex Salmond said in a statement that it would table fifty amendments to any Article 50 legislation, including one which makes the UK government seek unanimous approval on the triggering of Article 50 from the Joint Ministerial Committee, which comprises the leaders of devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland

http://uk.businessinsider.com/snp-artic ... ?r=US&IR=T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not very up with the procedural stuff, but this won't help Labour, will it? How do amendments work? They don't all get selected to go forward to a vote, is that right?

[PorFavor]

Laura Kuenssberg ✔ @bbclaurak
Senior member of shadow cabinet says Labour MPs will be whipped to vote for Article 50 despite ructions last week when whip was first mooted
1:09 PM - 24 Jan 2017

Is it really necessary to decide and announce this before the bill has even been seen and the scope for amendments assessed?

Indeed. The new approach. It's new, it's snappy, it's populist, it's Trump, it's rubbish.

Talking of Trump, has the scrapping of TPP registered with the front bench yet? Relevant to Britain's Hard Brexit plan that the US is led by a protectionist?

You're perhaps forgetting that we're "special". And that the Conservatives have neither shame nor principles.

[citizenJA]

Hi JA. How did the canvassing in Stoke go ? Have you time to tell us what feedback from voters has been like ?

I look forward to dignified words and actions from all candidates and supporters.
Leafleting scheduled and carried out within pre-determined areas isn't 'adversarial protesting' requiring law enforcement intervention, for example.
Don't make me start the ritual chanting.

[Willow904]

Is it accurate ?

Seeing as Corbyn has already said as much, I don't see why it wouldn't be. It's consistent with his position all along, isn't it.

Forgive me if I take a pinch of salt with, after the Guardian whip alternative fact fiasco.

Corbyn has said over and over again that Labour won't block Brexit. The very first thing he said after the referendum was that article 50 had to be invoked. He said he would instruct Labour MPs to support a bill. He didn't prevaricate and say bring a bill and Labour would then decide what to do. When has he ever said anything which suggested Labour MPs would have a free vote or he would recommend to vote against?