Tuesday 24th January 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 2:57 pm

Current Lab candidates(unless cja knows of more entrants/up to date news)
Hustings tomorrow

http://labourlist.org/2017/01/exclusive ... -in-stoke/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 2:58 pm

Willow904 wrote:
The party's international affairs spokesman Alex Salmond said in a statement that it would table fifty amendments to any Article 50 legislation, including one which makes the UK government seek unanimous approval on the triggering of Article 50 from the Joint Ministerial Committee, which comprises the leaders of devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland
http://uk.businessinsider.com/snp-artic ... ?r=US&IR=T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not very up with the procedural stuff, but this won't help Labour, will it? How do amendments work? They don't all get selected to go forward to a vote, is that right?

I love the judgement wording. It makes sense. Sense is often under-represented these days.

"The fact that ministers are accountable to Parliament for their actions is no answer constitutionally, if the power to act does not exist in the first
place and where (as the court has been asked to assume) the exercise of the power would be irrevocable and pre-empt any Parliamentary action."

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:10 pm

Anti-democrats failing to respect the will of the British people.

http://www.independent.ie/business/brex ... 92665.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Irish PM Enda] Kenny to openly court Brexit-hit businesses after tactical rethink

Fair enough, Ireland. We're going to stuff your farmers with an American deal one day. Take everything you can.

Populist-nationalists don't understand that their sovereignty-mandate only goes so far. See Trump- the TPP countries could now do a deal with China, stuffing America. And see Syriza and its delusion that it "voted to end austerity".

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:13 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Is it really necessary to decide and announce this before the bill has even been seen and the scope for amendments assessed?
Indeed. The new approach. It's new, it's snappy, it's populist, it's Trump, it's rubbish.

Talking of Trump, has the scrapping of TPP registered with the front bench yet? Relevant to Britain's Hard Brexit plan that the US is led by a protectionist?

You're perhaps forgetting that we're "special". And that the Conservatives have neither shame nor principles.

And Labour frontbench swallowing this exceptionalism whole, with Lexiters and Kippers in charge.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:15 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Even if you think Corbyn is useless (and I do), he's got nothing on this preposterous muppet:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IDS. I suggest every Chingford & Woodford Green Tory voting constituent seriously reflect upon their choice of representative.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:20 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Populist-nationalists don't understand that their sovereignty-mandate only goes so far.

(cJA edit)

Exactly.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:20 pm

HindleA wrote:Current Lab candidates(unless cja knows of more entrants/up to date news)
Hustings tomorrow

http://labourlist.org/2017/01/exclusive ... -in-stoke/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know nothing more current.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:29 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I wonder if Hugo would like to comment on the precise wording of Lucas's Tweet. My emphasis.

Caroline Lucas ‏@CarolineLucas 36m36 minutes ago
Caroline Lucas Retweeted Colin Yeo
A win for democracy, and a blow for the Govt. Now down to @UKLabour to join with those of us opposing triggering Article 50 prematurely.

She's right, of course. We need to oppose invoking art 50 unless and until we know what deal can be struck.

Corbyn and McDonnell favour Hard Brexit for traditional Haard Left creative destruction reasons. They calculate that their brand of politics will have greater prospects for electoral success amidst the ruin caused by Hard Brexit. They are of course right.

They still won't win though, and we'll all be made poorer because of their willingness to use the poorest as a means to their ends.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:30 pm

Willow904 wrote:
The party's international affairs spokesman Alex Salmond said in a statement that it would table fifty amendments to any Article 50 legislation, including one which makes the UK government seek unanimous approval on the triggering of Article 50 from the Joint Ministerial Committee, which comprises the leaders of devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland
http://uk.businessinsider.com/snp-artic ... ?r=US&IR=T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not very up with the procedural stuff, but this won't help Labour, will it? How do amendments work? They don't all get selected to go forward to a vote, is that right?

It sticks in my craw to say so but well done SNP.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Owen Smith not voting for Article 50.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:37 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Anyone seen Hugo?

Was working.

FWIIW, having now read the SC, my view is the same. I agree with Lord Reed. I think the majority have no answer to what he says (which is exactly what I have said).

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:41 pm

Willow904 wrote:
The party's international affairs spokesman Alex Salmond said in a statement that it would table fifty amendments to any Article 50 legislation, including one which makes the UK government seek unanimous approval on the triggering of Article 50 from the Joint Ministerial Committee, which comprises the leaders of devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland
http://uk.businessinsider.com/snp-artic ... ?r=US&IR=T" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not very up with the procedural stuff, but this won't help Labour, will it? How do amendments work? They don't all get selected to go forward to a vote, is that right?

I'd be very surprised if the SNP amendments are more than demands for a special deal for Scotland - which as far as I can see is impossible - and therefore a waste of time. The SNP have never, as far as I'm aware, campaigned for a UK-wide outcome, eg remain or soft Brexit.
Ask for the impossible, and it will be Westminster's fault that they don't get it. Another "reason" for independence. Job done and stuff the rest of the UK.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:46 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... CMP=twt_gu

Owen Smith not voting for Article 50.

Am most intrigued by what Miliband will do.

Disappointed in Cooper, but she is in Pontefract.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:47 pm

Willow904 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Seeing as Corbyn has already said as much, I don't see why it wouldn't be. It's consistent with his position all along, isn't it.
Forgive me if I take a pinch of salt with, after the Guardian whip alternative fact fiasco.
Corbyn has said over and over again that Labour won't block Brexit. The very first thing he said after the referendum was that article 50 had to be invoked. He said he would instruct Labour MPs to support a bill. He didn't prevaricate and say bring a bill and Labour would then decide what to do. When has he ever said anything which suggested Labour MPs would have a free vote or he would recommend to vote against?

He's not going to vote against, and isn't going to ask his MPs to vote against.

Everything else is very much undecided, whatever the spin from the Graun or Kuensservativeberg.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:53 pm

It sounded pretty much decided the other day that he was voting for and going to make the MPs vote for.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 3:56 pm

Yes, that was the spin put on it by the Guardian - like I said. "Three line whip" was a total invention of theirs, nowhere did he actually say that.

(just like he never said "Brexit would be good for Britain" in that speech the other day, despite the Graun claim he would - anybody see a pattern developing here?)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:02 pm

That he's a clueless Lexiter chasing votes of people who despise him, with a crap media operation, who briefs stuff and then drops it when there's a backlash?

"Corbyn refuses to rule out 3 line whip to vote for Article 50". That would have had me gnashing my teeth enough, and I think, everybody else who gnashed.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:04 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, that was the spin put on it by the Guardian - like I said. "Three line whip" was a total invention of theirs, nowhere did he actually say that.

(just like he never said "Brexit would be good for Britain" in that speech the other day, despite the Graun claim he would - anybody see a pattern developing here?)

Rubbish was it made up.

He was asked "does that mean a 3 line whip"

He replied

"It means Labour MPs will be asked to voted in that direction when the vote comes up."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38684268" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone sensible would have realised that he has no power to whip the PLP. They'll vote how they like. Why treat instructions from Corbyn more seriously than he treated them from leaders of the past.

I think he, like you last week, mispredicted how many MPs would refuse to back art 50 being invoked.

So now he is backtracking.

It doesn't matter much. Without a concerted effort to stop Hard Brexit by the opposition, it is inevitable.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:12 pm

"Asked", not ordered.

Look, I actually agree that JC probably isn't that distressed at Brexit - unlike most Labour MPs.

But he still isn't as stupid as some imagine - he knows that most party members who voted for him as leader also strongly supported staying in the EU.

There's a reason why he put Starmer in charge of Labour's approach, rather than one of his "Brexit buddies".

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:12 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... CMP=twt_gu

Owen Smith not voting for Article 50.

Am most intrigued by what Miliband will do.

Disappointed in Cooper, but she is in Pontefract.

33.6 point lead in 2015.

If she doesn't back herself to defend that, when the wheels come off, she's a waste of space.

Angela Smith was about the only one from a big Leave area that rebelled before (Penistone and Stockbridge).

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:12 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:That he's a clueless Lexiter chasing votes of people who despise him, with a crap media operation, who briefs stuff and then drops it when there's a backlash?

"Corbyn refuses to rule out 3 line whip to vote for Article 50". That would have had me gnashing my teeth enough, and I think, everybody else who gnashed.

Corbyn doesn't rule out assassinating Theresa May over Article 50.

The Guardian have been in fine stitch up mode in the last couple of weeks. I think I'm right in saying that those taking as gospel what the Guardian pieces have weren't impressed with all the pieces written in the Get Ed Summer?

Corbyn hasn't been playing post referendum great, but the twisting and stretching by the BBC and Guardian has been freaking ridiculous. What has been disappointing for me has been the gleeful shouts of "See!" by those here and elsewhere whenever these pieces appear.

Starmer is doing well. Let's see what's presented to Parliament and the timetable associated with it and take it from there.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:15 pm

Also notable that the Graun carried a ludicrous, fawning puff piece "interview" with Farron just after they had tried to stitch up Jez.

I think we can see where this is going, can't we?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:"Asked", not ordered.

Look, I actually agree that JC probably isn't that distressed at Brexit - unlike most Labour MPs.

But he still isn't as stupid as some imagine - he knows that most party members who voted for him as leader also strongly supported staying in the EU.

There's a reason why he put Starmer in charge of Labour's approach, rather than one of his "Brexit buddies".

That he's only got McDonnell and Abbott and they're already promoted above Brexit Secretary? The 2015 intake leftists like Clive Lewis are a break with the Bennite rubbish. Putting Kelvin Hopkins or Dennis Skinner in the Shadow Cabinet isn't going to wash.

If you can't rule out a 3 line whip, it's a funny type of asking you have in mind.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:23 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:That he's a clueless Lexiter chasing votes of people who despise him, with a crap media operation, who briefs stuff and then drops it when there's a backlash?

"Corbyn refuses to rule out 3 line whip to vote for Article 50". That would have had me gnashing my teeth enough, and I think, everybody else who gnashed.
Corbyn doesn't rule out assassinating Theresa May over Article 50.

The Guardian have been in fine stitch up mode in the last couple of weeks. I think I'm right in saying that those taking as gospel what the Guardian pieces have weren't impressed with all the pieces written in the Get Ed Summer?

Corbyn hasn't been playing post referendum great, but the twisting and stretching by the BBC and Guardian has been freaking ridiculous. What has been disappointing for me has been the gleeful shouts of "See!" by those here and elsewhere whenever these pieces appear.

Starmer is doing well. Let's see what's presented to Parliament and the timetable associated with it and take it from there.

He wasn't asked if he'd assassinate Theresa May, was he? If he were, he'd rule that out.

You'd give Jeremy Hunt a free pass if he was asked about selling off your local hospital to private equity and he refused to answer. As a side issue, Jeremy Hunt knows he's a slippery sod. Corbyn thinks he's a straight talking and honest break with other politicians.

It's not me or any of us gleeful types you need to tell. It's Corbyn.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:27 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:"Asked", not ordered.

Look, I actually agree that JC probably isn't that distressed at Brexit - unlike most Labour MPs.

But he still isn't as stupid as some imagine - he knows that most party members who voted for him as leader also strongly supported staying in the EU.

There's a reason why he put Starmer in charge of Labour's approach, rather than one of his "Brexit buddies".
That he's only got McDonnell and Abbott and they're already promoted above Brexit Secretary? The 2015 intake leftists like Clive Lewis are a break with the Bennite rubbish. Putting Kelvin Hopkins or Dennis Skinner in the Shadow Cabinet isn't going to wash.

If you can't rule out a 3 line whip, it's a funny type of asking you have in mind.

Many see a 3 line whip as effectively "ordering" rather than asking - that's why people are called "rebels" when they dissent from it.

The journalist who claimed this later seemed to think - when people asked her about the story on Twitter - that it was a binary choice of a totally free vote or a 3-line whip, and there was nothing in between. Why are so many "political correspondents" so ignorant of basic facts?

(because they spend so much time gossiping and sucking up to their favourites, that's why)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:30 pm

I've been pondering a what if scenario. Before you cry 'what if' might never happen hear me through please.

Scenario as follows:

Labour, under Corbyn, act in a way that allows a hard and damaging Brexit.

The right sense opportunity to take advantage of the situation and someone like Farage (who has been talking about private insurance recently), or the Randian wing of the Tory party, start a campaign to hold a referendum on the NHS.

The right wing press support a referendum and it ends up in the Tory party manifesto.
The Tories win a general election, we have a nasty lying and manipulative campaign helped by Murdoch etc and the country votes by a small majority to flog off the NHS and go over to a private insurance based system - the details of which are sketchy when people vote.

Would Labour say ''The will of the people has been made clear and we will not stand in the way of the NHS being scrapped' and then spend time tinkering around the edges of the policy rather than full bloodedly opposing it ? If they set a precedent of caving in to something they campaigned against - when it is such a serious issue as Brexit and using 'the will of the people' as the excuse for doing so, what stops the Tories exploiting it in the future ?

Sometimes 'what if ?' does happen. The Tories are cunning and happy to wreck things if it means money for their pals.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:33 pm

I think it would be extremely odd to have a weak whip on one of the most significant votes ever. It should be 3 line or free.

Corbyn didn't exactly radiate knowledge of whipping there, did he? Nor did whoever prepared him for the interview- if anybody did at all.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:37 pm

yahyah wrote:I've been pondering a what if scenario. Before you cry 'what if' might never happen hear me through please.

Scenario as follows:

Labour, under Corbyn, act in a way that allows a hard and damaging Brexit.

The right sense opportunity to take advantage of the situation and someone like Farage, or the Randian wing of the Tory party start a campaign to hold a referendum on the NHS.

The right wing press support it and it ends up in the Tory party manifesto.
The Tories win a general election, we have a nasty lying and manipulative campaign helped by Murdoch etc and the country votes by a small majority to flog off the NHS and go over to a private insurance based system - the details of which are sketchy when people vote.

Would Labour say ''The will of the people has been made clear and we will not stand in the way of the NHS being scrapped' and then spend time tinkering around the edges of the policy rather than full bloodedly opposing it ? If they set a precedent of caving in to something they campaigned against - when it is such a serious issue as Brexit and using 'the will of the people' as the excuse for doing so, what stops the Tories exploiting it in the future ?

Sometimes 'what if ?' does happen. The Tories are cunning and happy to wreck things if it means money for their pals.

They can do what they want with the NHS without bringing the people into the question. Why risk it?

I think the ECHR could be a referendum thing. Same "sovereignty" stuff can be wheeled out, and they can override Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve etc with a referendum.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:40 pm

Well, he's someone who became leader in his mid-60s with no previous experience of meaningful leadership roles.

What did people expect exactly?

It does maybe raise the question of whether certain individuals might have tried to help him, rather than declaring overt hostility from the minute his election was announced.

How has that gone - are they now any closer than then to "getting their party back"??

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:42 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Also notable that the Graun carried a ludicrous, fawning puff piece "interview" with Farron just after they had tried to stitch up Jez.

I think we can see where this is going, can't we?

Maybe whoever can influence the Guardian's slant is seriously concerned about us Leaving, and leaving in a shambolic way that will damage our economy and worse.
Do you think many people actively want to vote Lib Dem ? Why is Labour hell bent on forcing them in that direction by acting so cowardly ?

My attempt to feel more positive towards Corbyn didn't last the day.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:44 pm

yahyah wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Also notable that the Graun carried a ludicrous, fawning puff piece "interview" with Farron just after they had tried to stitch up Jez.

I think we can see where this is going, can't we?

Maybe whoever can influence the Guardian's slant is seriously concerned about us Leaving, and leaving in a shambolic way that will damage our economy and worse.
Do you think many people actively want to vote Lib Dem ? Why is Labour hell bent on forcing them in that direction by acting so cowardly ?

My attempt to feel more positive towards Corbyn didn't last the day.

That doesn't explain the Summer of Get Ed.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:46 pm

Some Corbyn fans helped Get Ed too. Including on FTN.
Red Tory, neo-lib Ed, 'Miliband wears a ****ng suit'

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, he's someone who became leader in his mid-60s with no previous experience of meaningful leadership roles.

What did people expect exactly?

It does maybe raise the question of whether certain individuals might have tried to help him, rather than declaring overt hostility from the minute his election was announced.

How has that gone - are they now any closer than then to "getting their party back"??

There seems to be a number of MPs putting their energies into issues, childcare for all for example, instead of sniping via the twitter.
You can argue the Why? but it's still a good thing.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:48 pm

A few did yahyah, they were dwarfed in both numbers and vociferousness by the neo-Blairites though. Not to mention the CyberNats.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:48 pm

yahyah wrote:Some Corbyn fans helped Get Ed too. Including on FTN.
Red Tory, neo-lib Ed, 'Miliband wears a ****ng suit'

I was referring to the G in their SoGE.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:51 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
Starmer is doing well.

He really is not. His response to May's speech last week was an embarrassment.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:51 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, he's someone who became leader in his mid-60s with no previous experience of meaningful leadership roles.

What did people expect exactly?

It does maybe raise the question of whether certain individuals might have tried to help him, rather than declaring overt hostility from the minute his election was announced.

How has that gone - are they now any closer than then to "getting their party back"??

The PLP are on best behaviour now. He's not got any better.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:56 pm

It's worth saying how he's treated his allies. Anybody who goes near his anti-NATO stuff, gets Milne step on them with his full authority.

He'd make Britain into an international joke, unilaterally ducking out on treaty allies.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 4:57 pm

It looks as if HSBC have quietly announced they are closing 62 branches.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:05 pm

Well I remember very few people constantly criticising Miliband in the way mentioned above, if any at all.

Methinks someone trying to justify their own behaviour

I really am struggling to see what the fuss about this vote against A50 is

Davies was right when he said there is a mandate to Leave....is anyone really got an argument against that which is convincing (all I have seen is 'they lied' and 'it will cause economic damage'). I find it unlikely that those arguments are any more successful now than they were in June....especially seeing the lack of an acute economic meltdown

A50 will pass because there are not enough Tory dissenters....it is gesture politics and normally some of you are the first to decry that

He was wrong though when he said that there was a mandate for anything else....and that is where the opportunity is

Amendments will get support and are more likely to pass if there hasn't been a wasteful row of A50 itself

Starmer seems to have it about right at the moment and he will have to play a good game to make this work - but that would be the same for any Labour politician over this subject

As to a whip...anyone who takes Kuennsberg as being objective with Corbyn is as naive as if treating yahyah in the same way

He may have to whip though because the PLP are likely to want to use this as there next round in the 'Get Corbyn' farce

As a final point. There is a lot of criticism of pro-Leave people treating Leave voters as one block....please have the courtesy to do the same for Remain

I have a lot to lose if we exit, more than most on here I would guess but I have a different way of seeing this tactically....not better or more correct, just different

I blame Cameron for all this...his legacy is seen today...and Osborne but there are secret admirers of both on this board who are screaming at Corbyn

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:11 pm

I'm a secret admirer of Cameron and Osborne, am I?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:14 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I'm a secret admirer of Cameron and Osborne, am I?

I don't know are you?

Don't remember naming you....

But then some recent posts seem to have caught me with a memory blank....

But to be fair I should have added 'I wouldn't be surprised if' as I have no absolute certainty...just my impression

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:26 pm

Now that is silly isn't it. Ludicrous in fact.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:31 pm

Indeed.

But I'll put on record I'm not a secret admirer of Cameron or Osborne. I'm a non secret loather.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:34 pm

I think he's got a crush on you Tubby. Follows you around like a puppy. Sweet.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:35 pm

If anyone here is a secret admirer of Cameron & Osborne, it's so secret they don't even know it themselves.
Even admiring what they seem to be able to get away with is a step too far.

Broadly agree with your thoughts on A50, hsom1, as you should already know. I've given up rehashing it for the time being.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:41 pm

Did you see this Tubby, down your end of Wales ?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/b ... n-12494775" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:44 pm

yahyah wrote:I think he's got a crush on you Tubby. Follows you around like a puppy. Sweet.

I seem to attract odd comparisons on the internet. Last night I was saying that I think Bernie Sanders was a disaster by teeing up populism for Trump with his own dubious stuff, and I got compared to some "wet liberal" with "neoliberalism 101" off the West Wing, which I've never watched 10 seconds of.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:55 pm

At least I know what I was being compared with when called Paddington Bear,in my youth and being forced to wear duffle coats.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 24 Jan, 2017 5:55 pm

yahyah wrote:Did you see this Tubby, down your end of Wales ?

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/b ... n-12494775" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks. It's a great looking project. It was very surprising to me how near some of these run down places actually are to Cardiff. It's a
good idea to bind these places in as in effect "Greater Cardiff", and do joined up stuff with house building.

I don't know how Brexit will effect Cardiff. I imagine it has lots of international students and EU citizens, and maybe it'll lose those. If Cardiff declines, the Cardiff-driven Metro doesn't add up. Then again, you might see even greater movement to Cardiff from the "periphery" in Wales.

I wouldn't put much money on the extension to Hirwaun happening.