Thursday 26h January 2017

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:02 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
pk1 wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Do you think there's a polling figure that even Corbyn can't survive?

With a 3 point margin of error either way, 23% looks pretty uncomfortable. That's 26% at best, 20% at worst. Which is really poor. Labour are almost out of the game at the moment.
Problem is that many of his supporters believe polls are nothing more than a tory-owned media conspiracy & no matter how you might try to reason with some of them, they flat out refuse to admit he's hopeless at leadership. His hugely inflated ego created by the adoration of the attendees to his rallies & his stubbornness is killing the party - if only he had campaigned as effectively for Remain as he did for his own job, we might not be in this god-awful situation now
Sorry, this last point is bollocks. Cameron. Ca-mer-on. He's the reason for this. The first, the last, reason for this catastrophe. He owns this mess.

Yeah ok, so Cameron created this chaos but Corbyn has a responsibility to campaign for Labour party policy. His lukewarm attempts at doing would have persuaded a mouse at best.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:08 pm

adam wrote:I think that...

4. Labour should have been consistently saying 'we should not be leaving - this is your mess - this is what it's going to mean to people - we will find a way to stay if the electorate will give us the chance'. They still should be saying this.

Absolutely. Our failure to do this is a complete disaster and will be construed as agreeing with May's Brexiteers leaving us with no leg to stand on later on.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:08 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Lost Soul wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Clive Lewis and Tulip Siddiq among frontbenchers opposed to triggering Brexit as party leader says he expects all his MPs to vote in favour

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ?CMP=fb_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Beth Rigby Verified account 
‏@BethRigby


NEW Tulip Siddiq tells me she'll resign from front bench if 3 line whip. MPs saying Clive Lewis/Cat Smith/Dawn Butler/Jo Stevens'll quit too
Blairite Quislings. Red Tories. etc etc.

Fucking Yawn.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:12 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Shami Chakrabarti on Channel 4 News- clear and authoritative on Trump, human rights. Died on her arse when asked about Corbyn or Brexit.

I wonder how tenable this is.
Do you think there's a polling figure that even Corbyn can't survive?

With a 3 point margin of error either way, 23% looks pretty uncomfortable. That's 26% at best, 20% at worst. Which is really poor. Labour are almost out of the game at the moment.
At the risk of repeating myself, the problem is not Corbyn. It's the absence of a credible alternative.

Where is the future leader? It's not like nobody else has had an opportunity! This is why blaming Corbyn for everything upsets me so much. He's there quite simply because everyone else is so crap. No vision. No compelling critique. No policies.

Owen Smith is rising to the challenge as we speak.

Raft of policies ready too. Business experience in key industry. No electoral baggage.

Announce standing down in summer. Somebody better will be ready.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:14 pm

Can someone tell me why "the Labour MPs in Exeter and Bethnal Green voted against Article 50" is supposed to be so poisonous in Stoke?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:15 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Do you think there's a polling figure that even Corbyn can't survive?

With a 3 point margin of error either way, 23% looks pretty uncomfortable. That's 26% at best, 20% at worst. Which is really poor. Labour are almost out of the game at the moment.
At the risk of repeating myself, the problem is not Corbyn. It's the absence of a credible alternative.

Where is the future leader? It's not like nobody else has had an opportunity! This is why blaming Corbyn for everything upsets me so much. He's there quite simply because everyone else is so crap. No vision. No compelling critique. No policies.
Owen Smith is rising to the challenge as we speak.

Raft of policies ready too. Business experience in key industry. No electoral baggage.

Announce standing down in summer. Somebody better will be ready.

I look forward to it!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:18 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Can someone tell me why "the Labour MPs in Exeter and Bethnal Green voted against Article 50" is supposed to be so poisonous in Stoke?

What's going on?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:18 pm

I'm nominating Ron Hopeful.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:19 pm

Election Data
‏@election_data

81% of Labour members voted to Remain

Was it as high as that? I thought it was 68/69%, but if 81% is right then Corbyn is definitely barking up the wrong tree.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:20 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Can someone tell me why "the Labour MPs in Exeter and Bethnal Green voted against Article 50" is supposed to be so poisonous in Stoke?
What's going on?

The 3 line whip. I can see why the other Stoke MP might want to vote for it. Why would Stoke folk care about people in far off Remain areas?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:21 pm

Andy ‏@andyetc 12h12 hours ago

BBC Breakfast just referred to water boarding as something "some people consider torture". In other news stabbing seen as "a bit murdery".

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:27 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Shami Chakrabarti on Channel 4 News- clear and authoritative on Trump, human rights. Died on her arse when asked about Corbyn or Brexit.

I wonder how tenable this is.
Do you think there's a polling figure that even Corbyn can't survive?

With a 3 point margin of error either way, 23% looks pretty uncomfortable. That's 26% at best, 20% at worst. Which is really poor. Labour are almost out of the game at the moment.
At the risk of repeating myself, the problem is not Corbyn. It's the absence of a credible alternative.

Where is the future leader? It's not like nobody else has had an opportunity! This is why blaming Corbyn for everything upsets me so much. He's there quite simply because everyone else is so crap. No vision. No compelling critique. No policies.

I'd take anyone who is willing to fight to keep us in the single market. Ed Miliband would do. I think you're a bit hung up on the idea of people "blaming" Corbyn, when it's his positions like wanting to leave the single market that some people are unhappy about, not that he's somehow responsible for what has happened up to now. The thing that would be different if a pro-EU leader was in charge is that they would be pro-EU which, for voters who are pro-EU, is far more attractive than a lifelong Eurosceptic who wants to leave the single market.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:30 pm

Is all this real or am I having a year long really bad hallucination of some description?

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:30 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... mp-cartoon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:32 pm

Sandra Schwab
‏@ScribblingSandy

When you grow up in Germany & go through the school system in Germany, you will cover the Third Reich several times.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A very long thread but worth the read on what it was like to live in Hitler's Germany.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:33 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Election Data
‏@election_data

81% of Labour members voted to Remain

Was it as high as that? I thought it was 68/69%, but if 81% is right then Corbyn is definitely barking up the wrong tree.

63% of Labour voters supported remain, I think. This figure seems to be for members, which is a figure I haven't heard before.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:34 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Can someone tell me why "the Labour MPs in Exeter and Bethnal Green voted against Article 50" is supposed to be so poisonous in Stoke?
What's going on?
The 3 line whip. I can see why the other Stoke MP might want to vote for it. Why would Stoke folk care about people in far off Remain areas?

Brexit has deepened the divergence of priorities between the Labour voters of Cambridge and Stoke – Hunt’s final speech
19th January, 2017

"...Amid the Brexit debate, I continue...to represent a constituency that voted 70:30 to leave the European Union. Week in and week out, I campaigned with colleagues for us to remain in the EU. I remember some days not meeting anyone in the potteries who wished to stay inside the EU.

The challenge that my right hon. Friend the leader of the Labour party faces is not unique to him. All parties are coalitions, but what Brexit has done is exacerbate the divergence of priorities between, say, the Labour voters of Cambridge and those in Redcar, Grimsby or Stoke-on-Trent. Keeping a metropolitan and post-industrial coalition together is no easy task.

In Stoke-on-Trent, my voters wanted to leave the European Union for three reasons: sovereignty and a return of national powers to this Parliament; a reaction against globalisation and a political economy that they thought had shut down the mines and steel industry and eliminated 80 per cent of jobs in the potteries; and immigration. The concern about immigration was not racism. It was about the effects of large-scale migration on public services and wage levels in an already low-wage city.

I often put the case that the EU was a bulwark against the ripcords of globalisation, and vital for policing and national security. I said that 50 per cent of our pottery exports went to the EU, that EU investment had assisted regeneration in north Staffordshire and that our great universities of Staffordshire and Keele both benefited from EU funding. It made no difference."

https://labourlist.org/2017/01/brexit-h ... ns-speech/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He mentioned too, though not in this speech, that Stoke's medical facilities were staffed by EU nationals, assisting, not burdening, our community, for example. It didn't make enough of a difference for more people to vote Remain.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:35 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Is all this real or am I having a year long really bad hallucination of some description?

Are you a figment of my imagination or am I one of yours?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:37 pm

Bonnylad wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... mp-cartoon

Steve Bell, pulling no punches !

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:41 pm

Sorry Bonnylad, but I just couldn't thank you for that. The image is still etched on my eyeballs. Eek!!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:42 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pl ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lists the job centres that will be closed

*hat tip to AH for posting about closures earlier

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:43 pm

Despite me issues about HSOM playing the ball and not the man the other day am genuinely sorry to see our recent visitors go. Not a big fan of the "us" "them" mentality (it being at the root of all evil and everything).

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:43 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Can someone tell me why "the Labour MPs in Exeter and Bethnal Green voted against Article 50" is supposed to be so poisonous in Stoke?
What's going on?
The 3 line whip. I can see why the other Stoke MP might want to vote for it. Why would Stoke folk care about people in far off Remain areas?

The Labour candidate chosen to stand in the Stoke by-election was asked who he voted for during the Labour leadership election. Smith.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:43 pm

I like to think that I defy imagination.

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:45 pm

Willow904 wrote:Sorry Bonnylad, but I just couldn't thank you for that. The image is still etched on my eyeballs. Eek!!

Apologies-I should have posted a warning!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:48 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Despite me issues about HSOM playing the ball and not the man the other day am genuinely sorry to see our recent visitors go. Not a big fan of the "us" "them" mentality (it being at the root of all evil and everything).

I don't dig it either. The us and them thing. Nah. Competition belongs in sport, not a component in societal function.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:49 pm

Laura KuenssbergVerified account
‏@bbclaurak
'Leadership by our two countries has done more than win wars, it has defined the modern world' -

LK reporting Mayhams speech on her time line

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:49 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:I like to think that I defy imagination.

I'm watching you now.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:51 pm

Bonnylad wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Sorry Bonnylad, but I just couldn't thank you for that. The image is still etched on my eyeballs. Eek!!
Apologies-I should have posted a warning!

It is pretty raw... eew

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 8:56 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Laura KuenssbergVerified account
‏@bbclaurak
'Leadership by our two countries has done more than win wars, it has defined the modern world' -

LK reporting Mayhams speech on her time line

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'defined the modern world'?
When and what was that then?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:06 pm

Stoke-on-Trent - West Midlands
Electorate: 179,010
Verified Ballot Papers: 117,680
Leave: 81,563
Remain: 36,027

61,330 members of the electorate didn't vote

http://public.tableau.com/profile/phil. ... ndumResult" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:10 pm

Javier Elío ‏@JavierElio 6m6 minutes ago
Si el impuesto a México es la Amenaza Fantasma, @PressSec debe ser Jar Jar Binks.

If the tax to Mexico is it threatens ghost, @PressSec must be Jar Jar Binks.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

??
Investigating.....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:12 pm

Seems Trump putting 20% tax on Mexican goods to "pay" for wall. People are not impressed....

https://twitter.com/search?q=%40PressSe ... o&src=typd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:13 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Bonnylad wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Sorry Bonnylad, but I just couldn't thank you for that. The image is still etched on my eyeballs. Eek!!
Apologies-I should have posted a warning!
It is pretty raw... eew

Try this:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... cial-trick

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:16 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
Bonnylad wrote: Apologies-I should have posted a warning!
It is pretty raw... eew
Try this:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... cial-trick

Big exclamation mark..

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:18 pm

Can someone explain the following to me?

1) Labour on the wrong end of 2015 General Election.
2) Acting Leader concerned lots of people see Labour as out of touch.
3) Proposes an abstention one one reading on benefits bill it can't defeat.

1) Labour on wrong end of referendum.
2) Leader concerned lots of people see Labour as out of touch.
3) Proposes to vote for Tory Hard Brexit bill it can't defeat.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:19 pm

Kyle Griffin ‏@kylegriffin1 29m29 minutes ago

And now @washingtonpost reports Sean Spicer is also registered to vote in two states:

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:21 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote: (it being at the root of all evil and everything).

Thank you so much for reminding me that I have to go to the dentist tomorrow.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:26 pm

Jo Maugham QCVerified account
‏@JolyonMaugham

Oi, No. 10. Can you also tell the work experience student he forgot to put in a definition of "EU"?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:27 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Kyle Griffin ‏@kylegriffin1 29m29 minutes ago

And now @washingtonpost reports Sean Spicer is also registered to vote in two states:

I read earlier that his daughter - Tiffany - is also registered in two states (AND campaigned for Democrats...)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:30 pm

With 63 SNP MSPs leaving her two short of an overall Holyrood majority, Sturgeon needs just the Scottish Greens’ six MSPs to vote down the LCM, pushing the UK and Scotland into a confrontation that could further fuel support for Scottish independence and a snap referendum.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rexit-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:30 pm

Jean Quatremer ‏@quatremer 2h2 hours ago

Donc @realDonaldTrump a déjà déclenché deux crises diplomatiques avec deux de ses plus fidèles alliés, le Mexique et l'UE. Après une semaine
Bing translation?
So @realDonaldTrump has already triggered two diplomatic crises with two of its most loyal allies, the Mexico and the EU. After a week

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:35 pm

Republicans are openly considering Donald Trump's 'emotional stability', says Carl Bernstein
'People are saying that his psyche is driving the news cycle'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 47301.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well it was difficult to spot - they must really be kicking themselves.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:37 pm

Just because...

People's Daily,China ‏@PDChina 1h1 hour ago
Chinese soldiers dance to celebrate the #LunarNewYear, the Year of the Rooster http://bit.ly/2kxZlEG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:41 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 48111.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On Sky News, the Labour leader added: “I fully understand the pressures and issues that members are under, those who represent Leave constituencies and those who represent Remain constituencies. Labour is in the almost unique position of having MPs representing constituencies in both directions and very strongly in both directions.

“I say to everyone, unite around the important issues of jobs, economy, security, rights, justice, those issues, and we will frame that relationship with Europe in the future, outside Europe but in concert with friends, whether those countries are in the EU or outside the EU.

Sounds a lot like vacuous nonsense. But I could be wrong.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:44 pm

UK-US trade deal will have 'very small upsides' for Britain, says former Bank of England economist
Cutting tariffs would bring little benefit, economists say, because duties between the US and UK are already very low
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 46866.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This Brexit lark just gets better and better.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:45 pm

Willow904 wrote:Sorry Bonnylad, but I just couldn't thank you for that. The image is still etched on my eyeballs. Eek!!

I haven't looked at it yet, maybe in the morning.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:47 pm

Still - at least we had those clever types from Eton and Oxbridge steer us through these tricky last few years eh?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:50 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
Kyle Griffin ‏@kylegriffin1 29m29 minutes ago

And now @washingtonpost reports Sean Spicer is also registered to vote in two states:

I read earlier that his daughter - Tiffany - is also registered in two states (AND campaigned for Democrats...)

Jared Kushner too, and his brother was at the march on Saturday.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 26 Jan, 2017 9:54 pm

The SNP are also preparing 50 amendments to the legislation, and will attempt to block the bill from progressing to a second reading because the government has “failed to properly consult with the devolved administrations”.

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/b ... -1-4350288" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;