Saturday 28th & Sunday 29th January 2017

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:25 pm

McDonnell wrote:
Labour accepts the referendum result as the voice of the majority and we must embrace the enormous opportunities to reshape our country that Brexit has opened for us."

He insisted that the party needed to change their attitude about Brexit

"It is time we all were more positive about Brexit," he said.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/11/ ... ty-britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As in: it's about time we were more positive about our urgent need for a heart by-pass!

(or some such thing)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:26 pm

Angela Merkel
‏@Queen_Europe

That feeling when your friend thinks she's met a great guy, but you know he's still looking for hot Russians on Tinder.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:27 pm

John Rentoul (apologies, if posted already)
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 49726.html
"Jeremy Corbyn faces more resignations, but even Blairites think he is right about Brexit"

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:31 pm

pk1 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
pk1 wrote: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... de-history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Will "being on the right side of history" be much comfort if UKIP then does to Labour in England what the SNP has in Scotland?

That is the sort of quasi-nihilistic outlook more traditionally associated with the hard left.
Hang on though - aren't we repeatedly told that UKIP are a busted flush ? That now the referendum has been 'won' they're a spent force ?

Labour widely being seen to "have contempt for the will of the people" is maybe the one thing that could revive UKIP now.

Its surprising tbh how easily some forget what the consequences of Labour getting the last referendum and its aftermath wrong were - its almost forgotten now that the SNP were actually struggling a bit beforehand, but that changed abruptly once they could paint SLab as "Red Tories" who had put their self interest over the good of the Scottish people.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:33 pm

An English football hooligan has been jailed for 10 years, after pushing a Polish builder on to live tube tracks half a minute before a train arrived.

Christopher Cole, 32, was angry at Russian fans’ behaviour during Euro 2016 and did not want England to be seen as “wusses”, a court heard.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... r-10-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

collective narcissism in action.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:34 pm

But Labour appear to have contempt for the will - and indeed view - of this person.
Don't I count?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:34 pm

Mayhams new best friends

Turkish NATO soldiers seek asylum in Germany: report
Several dozen have sought asylum in Germany, a media report said Saturday, quoting officers who said they fear jail and possibly torture back home.

https://www.thelocal.de/20170128/turkis ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:36 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Labour turning the UK into a one-party state. Tories must be laughing their heads off.
And I have no doubt where the *primary* blame for that lies - with those who would rather destroy Labour than not have themselves in charge of it.

Well, there is at least a chance now they will get just that - "be careful what you wish for" was rarely more apposite.

(and let's forget Corbyn here, it started with Ed if not even earlier)
Don't want to inspire a lot of exasperated groaning, but am seriously considering cancelling membership. Am open to arguments that persuade me otherwise. I just don't see much I can back at the moment - never mind that actually represents my view.

I would at least wait until after the article 50 vote. The amendments could be epic. Although probably not. The size of any rebellion will be interesting I suppose, but won't really make a difference as long as a Eurosceptic is in charge. The debate may give the soft left a voice, of course and I'm always less glum when Labour MPs I'm more in agreement with get to speak. Though if Corbyn survives this process and is still firmly ensconced in May when my membership is up for renewal I don't think I will renew. I'll never accept leaving the single market and I don't think there's any chance of May finalising such a policy before the next election, so I'm looking for a pro-single market party to vote for in 2020 and it's clear Labour won't be that party under Corbyn.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:38 pm

China military official says war with US under Donald Trump 'becoming practical reality'
Sino-US relations are becoming more tense under America's new administration
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 50601.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:38 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
pk1 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Will "being on the right side of history" be much comfort if UKIP then does to Labour in England what the SNP has in Scotland?

That is the sort of quasi-nihilistic outlook more traditionally associated with the hard left.
Hang on though - aren't we repeatedly told that UKIP are a busted flush ? That now the referendum has been 'won' they're a spent force ?
Labour widely being seen to "have contempt for the will of the people" is maybe the one thing that could revive UKIP now.

Its surprising tbh how easily some forget what the consequences of Labour getting the last referendum and its aftermath wrong were - its almost forgotten now that the SNP were actually struggling a bit beforehand, but that changed abruptly once they could paint SLab as "Red Tories" who had put their self interest over the good of the Scottish people.

UKIP are more Tory than the Tories.

They're not going to get that past enough Labour voters, least of all with a dud like Nuttall in charge, and Farage embracing Trump.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:39 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its not as simple as that, unfortunately - most Labour seats voted for Brexit.

And can we please stop talking about "the 48%" (or indeed "the 52%") as some homogenous bloc who all believe the same thing?

Not least because around half of "remain" voters think the referendum result should be respected and do not seek to have it reversed/ignored.

And they'll go on thinking that if Labour keep parroting it to back up their view, won't they ?. If no one but the few Lib Dems and a couple of brave Labour people stand up for a different view.

There is no way of knowing why those people believe that - it could be because they keep being told that is the way it is so it's tough luck if they disagree. Don't lump that nearly half of the remain voters together. We don't know what is motivating their view and how easily it could be changed.

You also presumes the result has to be ignored/reversed. Asking, as the Lib Dems are doing, for a second vote - not a re-run of the first but a vote taken at a time when much more has been clarified, why is that taboo for Labour ?

The outcome of a second referendum would be based on the the ''will of the people'' at that time. ''Re-run'' is a loaded term, used to dismiss the opportunity to do what should have been part of the original planning for the referendum, the recognition that it was a difficult and confusing process and yes/no did not address the wide range of issues concerning the EU.

Labour let the cock up happen when they were in Opposition, at the referendum planning stage, they are compounding it now through what one can only imagine is cowardice.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:39 pm

And siding with the Tories is what we're complaining about.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:40 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/r ... share&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Refugees Detained at U.S. Airports, Prompting Legal Challenges to Trump’s Immigration Order

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:43 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
McDonnell wrote:
Labour accepts the referendum result as the voice of the majority and we must embrace the enormous opportunities to reshape our country that Brexit has opened for us."

He insisted that the party needed to change their attitude about Brexit

"It is time we all were more positive about Brexit," he said.
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/11/ ... ty-britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As in: it's about time we were more positive about our urgent need for a heart by-pass!

(or some such thing)

So basically he's got the same attitude as the most rabid of brexiteers, the people voted & he can use that as cover & twist it to his own purpose for whatever he can get away with.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:43 pm

tinybgoat wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comme ... n_article/

Angela Rayner on why she supports 3 line whip:

To suggest that JC could duck a whipped position on this is really absurd. We have to do our best to hold the government to account and demand the facts throughout the parliamentary process before a final vote. That is the correct way to go about scrutiny whilst respecting democracy, not to vote it down before we have even had chance to debate and see the details.

We have seen the details. They're appalling.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:43 pm

yahyah wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its not as simple as that, unfortunately - most Labour seats voted for Brexit.

And can we please stop talking about "the 48%" (or indeed "the 52%") as some homogenous bloc who all believe the same thing?

Not least because around half of "remain" voters think the referendum result should be respected and do not seek to have it reversed/ignored.

And they'll go on thinking that if Labour keep parroting it to back up their view, won't they ?. If no one but the few Lib Dems and a couple of brave Labour people stand up for a different view.

There is no way of knowing why those people believe that - it could be because they keep being told that is the way it is so tough luck if you disagree.

You also presumes the result has to be ignored/reversed. Asking, as the Lib Dems are doing, for a second vote - not a re-run of the first but a vote taken at a time when much more has been clarified, why is that taboo for Labour ?

The outcome of a second referendum would be based on the the ''will of the people'' at that time. ''Re-run'' is a loaded term, used to dismiss the opportunity to do what should have been part of the original planning for the referendum, the recognition that it was a difficult and confusing process and yes/no did not address the wide range of issues concerning the EU.

Labour let the cock up happen when they were in Opposition, at the referendum planning stage, they are compounding it now through what one can only imagine is cowardice.

Ed opposed a referendum of course, soon after the GE Harman almost gleefully announced that Labour now supported one.

(her second stint as acting leader was every bit as disastrous as her first had been - surprisingly - sure footed)

And let's not forget that both the LibDems and Greens voted for this wretched referendum, even though they are never held to account by our media over that.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:45 pm

Malia Obama Takes a Stand Against Trump and for Standing Rock at #NoDAPL Protest
By Hrafnkell Haraldsson on Sat, Jan 28th, 2017 at 7:56 am
"It was amazing to see Malia...to witness...a woman coming into her own outside of her family and outside of the attachments that this country has on her"

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/01/28/ ... otest.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:47 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
McDonnell wrote:
Labour accepts the referendum result as the voice of the majority and we must embrace the enormous opportunities to reshape our country that Brexit has opened for us."

He insisted that the party needed to change their attitude about Brexit

"It is time we all were more positive about Brexit," he said.
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2016/11/ ... ty-britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As in: it's about time we were more positive about our urgent need for a heart by-pass!

(or some such thing)

That speech is from a few months ago - it was widely panned, even by some who support Corbyn's line now.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:51 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I see Owen Smith involved with that Article 50 Single Market bill.

Can we assume that wanted posters are going up in Brexit Pontypridd?

I hope you checked your spelling before posting that . . .

Ha ha.

YahYah pointed out that what I wrote was the name of the health board. Silly me got it from my partner's payslips in the kitchen.

Truly I am an alien interloper.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:52 pm

gilsey wrote:
pk1 wrote:
The right side of history will be to oppose Brexit. The side of openness, tolerance and progress. The side of avoiding financial instability, so that you can have some money to fund public services. The side Labour should be on, basically.

The wrong thing to do will be to nod through a bill that could result in Britain becoming poorer and more unequal – even a tax haven. This is the side of a shrinking state, massive deregulation and low tax. The side Labour definitely, definitely shouldn’t be on.

Most Labour MPs would argue that an anti-Brexit stance would make a Labour government less likely, and this would be bad for voters. And it’s true. It could batter Labour electorally to block Article 50. But they’re getting battered in the polls anyway. And polls tend to overestimate Labour support, as we saw so starkly in 2015. Plus, its seats are getting monstered in the boundary review. If the current outlook is anything to go by, it will be out of power for a very long time, whether it opposes Brexit or not. At least being on the right side of history now would appeal to voters when history comes to judge the Brexiteers.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... de-history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It could be 30 years, not 3, before history judges the brexiteers. By that time it'll have long been overtaken by climate change as an issue.
I disagree with the idea that people are going to regain their senses a couple of years down the road and it could all be made right if only Labour/Corbyn/whoever did the right thing.

Shouldn't Labour do the right thing because it may actually be the right thing to do, even though horribly inconvenient ?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:52 pm

I've just been reminded that Turkey is a member of the Customs Union. So what's the prospect of any trade deals with the UK?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:55 pm

yahyah wrote:
gilsey wrote:
pk1 wrote: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... de-history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It could be 30 years, not 3, before history judges the brexiteers. By that time it'll have long been overtaken by climate change as an issue.
I disagree with the idea that people are going to regain their senses a couple of years down the road and it could all be made right if only Labour/Corbyn/whoever did the right thing.

Shouldn't Labour do the right thing because it may actually be the right thing to do, even though horribly inconvenient ?

Of course they "should", everybody should. But in reality a lot of politics is about deciding when to compromise and when to make a stand.

(and another thing supporting A50 doesn't do is preclude anybody from supporting rejoining the EU in the future - not impossible if Brexit turns out as badly as it might)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:56 pm

My spelling is a bit shite from time to time. And I only speak the one language. Not sure it means much except that ... my spelling is a bit shite. (And as Nyrum Reynolds said*: a man must be a d—d fool, who can’t spell a word more than one way)

* see caveats http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/06/25/spelling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:58 pm

PorFavor wrote:I've just been reminded that Turkey is a member of the Customs Union. So what's the prospect of any trade deals with the UK?

Roger made the point about that before when Johnson went there.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:58 pm

if Corbyn ....... is still firmly ensconced in May

Ooerr, I thought he just went through the voting lobby with her. Had no idea how much further they'd taken things....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:59 pm

As It Happens ‏@cbcasithappens 15h15 hours ago

#BREAKING | Canada to increase reproductive health funding in response to Trump decision:
http://cbc.ca/1.3955523" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 1:59 pm

Can I credit Anatoly for his work here?

I don't agree but maybe we can agree the decision isn't straightforward?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:02 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its not as simple as that, unfortunately - most Labour seats voted for Brexit.

And can we please stop talking about "the 48%" (or indeed "the 52%") as some homogenous bloc who all believe the same thing?

Not least because around half of "remain" voters think the referendum result should be respected and do not seek to have it reversed/ignored.

And they'll go on thinking that if Labour keep parroting it to back up their view, won't they ?. If no one but the few Lib Dems and a couple of brave Labour people stand up for a different view.

There is no way of knowing why those people believe that - it could be because they keep being told that is the way it is so tough luck if you disagree.

You also presumes the result has to be ignored/reversed. Asking, as the Lib Dems are doing, for a second vote - not a re-run of the first but a vote taken at a time when much more has been clarified, why is that taboo for Labour ?

The outcome of a second referendum would be based on the the ''will of the people'' at that time. ''Re-run'' is a loaded term, used to dismiss the opportunity to do what should have been part of the original planning for the referendum, the recognition that it was a difficult and confusing process and yes/no did not address the wide range of issues concerning the EU.

Labour let the cock up happen when they were in Opposition, at the referendum planning stage, they are compounding it now through what one can only imagine is cowardice.
Ed opposed a referendum of course, soon after the GE Harman almost gleefully announced that Labour now supported one.

(her second stint as acting leader was every bit as disastrous as her first had been - surprisingly - sure footed)

And let's not forget that both the LibDems and Greens voted for this wretched referendum, even though they are never held to account by our media over that.

Lucas was gadding about in the Commons in 2011 with the usual headbangers calling for this referendum.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:03 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:As It Happens ‏@cbcasithappens 15h15 hours ago

#BREAKING | Canada to increase reproductive health funding in response to Trump decision:
http://cbc.ca/1.3955523" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's how you do soft power. UK to do the same? Germany?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:04 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I see Owen Smith involved with that Article 50 Single Market bill.

Can we assume that wanted posters are going up in Brexit Pontypridd?

I hope you checked your spelling before posting that . . .
Ha ha.

YahYah pointed out that what I wrote was the name of the health board. Silly me got it from my partner's payslips in the kitchen.

Truly I am an alien interloper.

Yeah, and they are also very interconnected.

Rhondda Cwm Taf and Rhondda Cynon Taf.
Cynon is a local river and river valley. Cwm means valley. Taf is another local river, sometimes spelt Taff.

So no need for the Welsh Language Police to escort you out of Wales just yet Tubby

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:06 pm

Thanks, Tubby.

On a different note, RIP Alexander Chancellor - for a reactionary old fogey his Graun columns were actually pretty good.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:06 pm

mae'r cyfan welsh i mi

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:06 pm

Theresa May looks for new friends among the world’s strongmen (Guardian)

Theresa May (the vicar's daughter) aka Pansy Potter.

Edited to add -

Much more seriously, here's the link to the (rather disturbing) Guardian article:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ump-brexit

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:As It Happens ‏@cbcasithappens 15h15 hours ago

#BREAKING | Canada to increase reproductive health funding in response to Trump decision:
http://cbc.ca/1.3955523" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's how you do soft power. UK to do the same? Germany?

*Think* Denmark has done the same

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Can I credit Anatoly for his work here?

I don't agree but maybe we can agree the decision isn't straightforward?

hear hear

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:07 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Of course they "should", everybody should. But in reality a lot of politics is about deciding when to compromise and when to make a stand.

(and another thing supporting A50 doesn't do is preclude anybody from supporting rejoining the EU in the future - not impossible if Brexit turns out as badly as it might)

Rejoining the EU means accepting the Euro as our currency. That won't happen in my lifetime & rightly so.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:07 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:
gilsey wrote: It could be 30 years, not 3, before history judges the brexiteers. By that time it'll have long been overtaken by climate change as an issue.
I disagree with the idea that people are going to regain their senses a couple of years down the road and it could all be made right if only Labour/Corbyn/whoever did the right thing.

Shouldn't Labour do the right thing because it may actually be the right thing to do, even though horribly inconvenient ?
Of course they "should", everybody should. But in reality a lot of politics is about deciding when to compromise and when to make a stand.

(and another thing supporting A50 doesn't do is preclude anybody from supporting rejoining the EU in the future - not impossible if Brexit turns out as badly as it might)

Rejoining means joining the Euro. There's no going back. That's exactly why Brexiters want to "get on with it" because they know the closer people look at it, the less they're going to like it, the more they'll put caveats on it or try to water it down. You do understand that voting against article 50 now (or suggesting you may vote against it) is not equivalent to stopping it completely? It's the mechanism by which you force May to adopt the safeguards you want in order to get it through. Her government will stand or fall on getting it through and she has a wafer thin majority. If Labour don't use their influence as an opposition now, when on earth will they?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:07 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Can I credit Anatoly for his work here?

I don't agree but maybe we can agree the decision isn't straightforward?

Seconded with knobs on

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:09 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:
Shouldn't Labour do the right thing because it may actually be the right thing to do, even though horribly inconvenient ?
Of course they "should", everybody should. But in reality a lot of politics is about deciding when to compromise and when to make a stand.

(and another thing supporting A50 doesn't do is preclude anybody from supporting rejoining the EU in the future - not impossible if Brexit turns out as badly as it might)
Rejoining means joining the Euro. There's no going back. That's exactly why Brexiters want to "get on with it" because they know the closer people look at it, the less they're going to like it, the more they'll put caveats on it or try to water it down. You do understand that voting against article 50 now (or suggesting you may vote against it) is not equivalent to stopping it completely? It's the mechanism by which you force May to adopt the safeguards you want in order to get it through. Her government will stand or fall on getting it through and she has a wafer thin majority. If Labour don't use their influence as an opposition now, when on earth will they?

Exactly. We are fast approaching the point of no return.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:17 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:As It Happens ‏@cbcasithappens 15h15 hours ago

#BREAKING | Canada to increase reproductive health funding in response to Trump decision:
http://cbc.ca/1.3955523" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's how you do soft power. UK to do the same? Germany?

Considering the recent Tory attempt to reduce term limits on abortions? I doubt it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:18 pm

Is it too much to ask that Labour point that out, and point it out loudly ? - referring to the posts about the Euro and rejoining. Remainers are stuffed, in our lifetimes at any rate. Labour is helping stuff us.

I thought yesterday some sense was prevailing, seeing people who normally lionise Corbyn pointing out he is making a ''colossal mistake'' and he was not guaranteeing that the ''most vulnerable people'' would be protected. A bit of a problem for a Labour leader who prides himself on his commitment to fight for those same people ?

http://www.thecanary.co/2017/01/27/jere ... editorial/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:19 pm

And I hope people appreciate that on a few things I say, I am playing devil's advocate to a degree.

I am far from convinced myself that a three line whip on A50 is either justified or clever politics.

But we have the situation where the likes of John Woodcock are saying "I agree with Corbyn" - these are strange times indeed

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:19 pm

Press AssociationVerified account
‏@PA
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn refuses to give an interview as he hits the by-election campaign trail in Stoke-on-Trent

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What IS the matter with him ! ?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:21 pm

Donald Trump's attitude to negotiation could provoke a war, says former British military chief
General Sir Richard Barrons says the US President's approach could lead to him doing something 'mad'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 50616.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's good to feel one's views are shared by others, but isn't this kind of stuff glaringly obvious?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:23 pm

pk1 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Of course they "should", everybody should. But in reality a lot of politics is about deciding when to compromise and when to make a stand.

(and another thing supporting A50 doesn't do is preclude anybody from supporting rejoining the EU in the future - not impossible if Brexit turns out as badly as it might)
Rejoining the EU means accepting the Euro as our currency. That won't happen in my lifetime & rightly so.

Snap!

The Scottish referendum had 2 years to debate all the issues and implications before anyone even voted.

Do you realise that it hasn't even been a year since Cameron set the EU referendum date and the debate began. Feb 20th it was announced. We've barely even begun to consider the issues and implications of the biggest most significant political decision of my lifetime. I think you can forgive any politician for being wary of actively voting for such a reckless, ill thought through and potentially irreversible act. Blindly implementing the "will of the people" may seem the only principled option but is it? Really? Parliament is sovereign. There's no blaming ",the people" if Brexit goes cock-eyed. This is on MPs. When they vote for article 50 they will be taking us out of the EU and if it's the appalling disaster I think it's going to be, I won't be blaming "the people", I'll be blaming them because it will be their fault.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:24 pm

UN condemns President's bar on asylum and entry from Muslim-majority countries
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 50576.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trump's hatred makes me feel physically sick.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:25 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Press AssociationVerified account
‏@PA
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn refuses to give an interview as he hits the by-election campaign trail in Stoke-on-Trent

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What IS the matter with him ! ?

Actually - and I am being fully serious now - his absolute and utter contempt for the media is maybe one of his biggest plus points.

We actually KNOW that journalists are prepared to twist and distort what he says to fit their agenda (cf Kuenssberg and "shoot to kill")

Can we blame him for wanting to interact with them as little as possible?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:25 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:And I hope people appreciate that on a few things I say, I am playing devil's advocate to a degree.

I am far from convinced myself that a three line whip on A50 is either justified or clever politics.

But we have the situation where the likes of John Woodcock are saying "I agree with Corbyn" - these are strange times indeed

Strange times indeed.

My other half is mooting making a donation to the Lib Dems if the money goes only to their Brexit strategy campaigning and not for any other of their policies.
Even stranger is that I am almost in agreement.
And anyone who joined FTN at the outset will know how that makes me feel. Labour pushing us into Lib Dem arms

It feels like a nightmare.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:28 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
UN condemns President's bar on asylum and entry from Muslim-majority countries
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 50576.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trump's hatred makes me feel physically sick.

Maybe try singing instead?

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/01/28/fuck-you/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:29 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Press AssociationVerified account
‏@PA
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn refuses to give an interview as he hits the by-election campaign trail in Stoke-on-Trent

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What IS the matter with him ! ?

Am struggling to pick my jaw up from the floor

Quite, quite extraordinary !