Saturday 28th & Sunday 29th January 2017

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:32 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Press AssociationVerified account
‏@PA
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn refuses to give an interview as he hits the by-election campaign trail in Stoke-on-Trent

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What IS the matter with him ! ?
Actually - and I am being fully serious now - his absolute and utter contempt for the media is maybe one of his biggest plus points.

We actually KNOW that journalists are prepared to twist and distort what he says to fit their agenda (cf Kuenssberg and "shoot to kill")

Can we blame him for wanting to interact with them as little as possible?

And who is it that we rely on to carry the Labour message to the country ? The Canary ? Facebook ? Twitter ? Yeah, that worked real well for Ed didn't it.

Treating the media with contempt means they can legitimately ignore Labour then when everyone whines that the media ignore Labour, they'll have nobody to blame but themselves !

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:32 pm

And Seumus Milne is a done deal now. Wake me up when it's over.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:34 pm

pk1 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Press AssociationVerified account
‏@PA
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn refuses to give an interview as he hits the by-election campaign trail in Stoke-on-Trent

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What IS the matter with him ! ?
Actually - and I am being fully serious now - his absolute and utter contempt for the media is maybe one of his biggest plus points.

We actually KNOW that journalists are prepared to twist and distort what he says to fit their agenda (cf Kuenssberg and "shoot to kill")

Can we blame him for wanting to interact with them as little as possible?
And who is it that we rely on to carry the Labour message to the country ? The Canary ? Facebook ? Twitter ? Yeah, that worked real well for Ed didn't it.

Treating the media with contempt means they can legitimately ignore Labour then when everyone whines that the media ignore Labour, they'll have nobody to blame but themselves !

The Canary will probably be on the Milne/Corbyn blacklist now they've spotted what he's up to on Article 50 etc. So that leaves Facebook and Twitter.

Post by **adam** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:34 pm

A legal challenge has been filed against Donald Trump’s executive order, which imposes a three-month ban on refugees from seven Muslim-majority countries and from Syria permanently.

From the graun's us live blog today.

Trump will want to get on and have his voter on the Supreme Court bench.

It is reasonably likely that this absurd policy will be voted down - Kennedy and CJ Roberts at different times and on different issues have both shown themselves to be more independent minded than their original appointments would have suggested - but I would guess that it is overwhelmingly likely that Alito and Thomas will uphold and you can be sure that Trump's appointee will join them.

The Court ruled in 1951 that communism was a political conspiracy planning to overthrow the government of the United States and so wasn't entitled to first amendment protections for freedom of speech. If Roberts and Kennedy decided to stick with the program they will find justification here and will write arguments to justify that conclusion.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:35 pm

HindleA wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
UN condemns President's bar on asylum and entry from Muslim-majority countries
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 50576.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trump's hatred makes me feel physically sick.

Maybe try singing instead?

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/01/28/fuck-you/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Richard Murphy on 'Fuck You' wrote:And if you’re offended, I’m not apologising. The time for subtlety has gone.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:36 pm

Wonder if JA's out and about in Stoke today ?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:40 pm

Expatexit: One entrepreneur is helping foreigners leave the UK because of Brexit and find jobs elsewhere
While financial firms are discussing whether they will need to move European headquarters or their staff to the continent, one entrepreneur sees the UK's possible brain drain as an opportunity
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 50001.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Embrace that McDonnell.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:42 pm

Jezza allegedly beat a hasty retreat when a Press Association reporter asked about the Stoke Labour candidate calling him ''an IRA supporting friend of Hamas career politician'' in a Tweet last year.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:48 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ump-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Theresa May looks for new friends among the world’s strongmen
Saturday’s meeting with Erdoğan in Turkey shows how Britain is re-ordering its international priorities after the Brexit vote

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:48 pm

Brain Drain ! Don't be negative, embrace the opportunity. Explain it away as a good thing, part of draining the elite swamp.

edited to add. - Refitman - I'm not sure why my posts are coming out so big, the text box is bigger than I'm using.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:51 pm

I think Corbyn''s contempt for newspapers is fine. But TV news is much more trusted, even if it has much wrong with it. I think he needs to be more careful there.

It's easy to look silly if you get cornered on camera though.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:51 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmbl ... doctor-who" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John Hurt: 10 key performances from Alien to Doctor Who

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 2:59 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think Corbyn''s contempt for newspapers is fine. But TV news is much more trusted, even if it has much wrong with it. I think he needs to be more careful there.

It's easy to look silly if you get cornered on camera though.

Yes, but they should be using every opportunity to cooperative positively with the press, particularly local news in the midst of a by-election campaign.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:01 pm

yahyah wrote:Brain Drain ! Don't be negative, embrace the opportunity. Explain it away as a good thing, part of draining the elite swamp.

edited to add. - Refitman - I'm not sure why my posts are coming out so big, the text box is bigger than I'm using.

I too was puzzled for a moment, then I twigged it. It's your avatar! The box has to stretch vertically to fit it at the side. It's all working fine.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:04 pm

Thanks Refitman. I'll try and resize it again. Thought I'd got it right.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:06 pm

yahyah wrote:Thanks Refitman. I'll try and resize it again. Thought I'd got it right.

I don't see it being a problem, to be honest. And you'll lose some of the detail if it gets any smaller. I'd leave it be, unless it's causing you an issue.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:12 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... s-inflated" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Drug firms ‘put lives of cancer patients at risk’ as out-of-patent prices are inflated
Research shows price of 14 treatments that should cost pennies has risen by up to 1,000%
Generic dugs can often be made for less than the cost of the raw ingredients.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:21 pm

pk1 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Of course they "should", everybody should. But in reality a lot of politics is about deciding when to compromise and when to make a stand.

(and another thing supporting A50 doesn't do is preclude anybody from supporting rejoining the EU in the future - not impossible if Brexit turns out as badly as it might)
Rejoining the EU means accepting the Euro as our currency. That won't happen in my lifetime & rightly so.

Not to mention our current opt-outs - Schengen, VAT-free food (and other items) etc.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:24 pm

pk1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think Corbyn''s contempt for newspapers is fine. But TV news is much more trusted, even if it has much wrong with it. I think he needs to be more careful there.

It's easy to look silly if you get cornered on camera though.
Yes, but they should be using every opportunity to cooperative positively with the press, particularly local news in the midst of a by-election campaign.

Local papers, sure. But do the candidates want him in the limelight?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:28 pm

Just took me about 8 attempts to nail "idiosyncrasy".
Thank heavens for spellchecker.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:29 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/heidi-a ... 1485600622&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Heidi Alexander.

This is what I've been trying to say.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:33 pm

yahyah wrote:Jezza allegedly beat a hasty retreat when a Press Association reporter asked about the Stoke Labour candidate calling him ''an IRA supporting friend of Hamas career politician'' in a Tweet last year.

Iain Gray hiding in a sandwich shop when confronted by SNP supporters didn't do Scottish Labour any good.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:37 pm

Just in case anyone's not quite depressed enough yet:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/europ ... ure-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A free trade deal with the United States and other countries would not make up for the loss to the UK's economy of leaving the single market, a report has claimed.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:38 pm

AK, I voted for Watson as deputy. It was a toss-up between him and Creasy.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:39 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
yahyah wrote:Jezza allegedly beat a hasty retreat when a Press Association reporter asked about the Stoke Labour candidate calling him ''an IRA supporting friend of Hamas career politician'' in a Tweet last year.
Iain Gray hiding in a sandwich shop when confronted by SNP supporters didn't do Scottish Labour any good.

Somehow, on first reading the word "shop" didn't make it through to me . . .

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:40 pm

National march to Parliament
Saturday 25th March 2017
11am, London

New web site
http://www.uniteforeurope.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:44 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ive-orders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Donald Trump's first week: carnage, both real and imagined

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:48 pm

We (Brits) are a bunch of idiots.
Fact.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:52 pm

StephenDolan wrote:AK, I voted for Watson as deputy. It was a toss-up between him and Creasy.

So I'm not the only one.
I naively thought that it would help unify the party having Watson & Corbyn work together, as well as being impressed by all the digital stuff.

I bet you all are glad I won't have a vote next time around.

And PorFavor, bless her, has never said ''I told you so'' even though she could have so many times.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 3:54 pm

Theresa May said it [fighter jet deal] could open the way to billions of pounds worth of business, as she became the first foreign leader to visit Turkey since Recep Tayyip Erdogan ordered a wave of arrests and sackings in the wake of last summer's coup.

Questioned over human rights concerns, Downing Street officials said the deal to design the TF-X jets was sealed in light of Turkey's status as a Nato ally and claimed Ms May could approach human rights as a "separate" issue.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 51006.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 4:02 pm

@Willow.

Did you see this too ?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -alexander" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 4:27 pm

Got control la la la
Got control la la la
Got control la la la ...

Oh:

None of the US papers put Theresa May's visit to the White House on their front page. It's time to face our insignificance
While the British newspapers didn't hesitate to lead with the Prime Minister's first meeting with President Trump, for the American audience it didn't seem particularly relevant
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the ... 50686.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:03 pm

Theresa May refuses to condemn Trump refugee ban

Jamie Grierson Jamie Grierson
Theresa May has ducked a series of questions on Donald Trump’s migrant and refugee ban, according to reporters at the scene of a joint press conference with the Turkish PM.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/liv ... -countries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Britain should be up in arms about all this, but instead we carry on thinking the Tories are doing a cracking job.
WTF?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:08 pm

Donald Trump anti-refugee order: 'green-card holders included in ban' – live
Homeland Security reportedly confirms permanent residents will be included in temporary ban amid widespread condemnation
(same link as above)

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:10 pm

I do like the widespread consultation on Art 50 with members that Corbyn has engaged in.

Almost as if party democracy only counts where it will give answers that Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne approve of.

As for that Watson speech. What a joke that man is.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:12 pm

Charities must adapt to a low-trust society
Tim Lott
Trust in British charitable organisations is falling. But social enterprise offers a way to ensure giving is truly effective
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... enterprise" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A low trust society that doesn't trust charities but does trust the Tories.
Perfect.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:15 pm

I'm not worried about losing our place as a 'world leader'. It's bullshit.

I'm not worried about financial institutions decamping en masse from London to Paris, Frankfurt etc. God knows I've been complaining all my life about the city's unbalancing effect on our economy.

I'm not worried about being unable to rejoin the EU because of the Euro/Schengen, I'd be quite happy with the Norway option. There are good things the EU want to do that the UK's been blocking.

I'm sad about leaving the EU for cultural/social reasons, not economic ones. I know it will reduce economic growth, but aren't we going to have to do that anyway, climate change again? It doesn't follow that we'll have to cut public services, that will still be a political choice. Education and health spending boost GDP and shouldn't be dependant on it.

the Gross National Product includes air pollution, ambulances to clear our highways from carnage. It counts special locks for our doors and jails for the people who break them. The Gross National Product includes the destruction of the redwoods and the death of Lake Superior. It grows with the production of napalm and missles and nuclear warheads.... It includes... the broadcasting of television programs which glorify violence to sell goods to our children. And if the Gross National Product includes all this, there is much that it does not comprehend. It does not allow for the health of our families, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It is indifferent to the decency of our factories and the safety of our streets alike. It does not include the beauty of our poetry, or the strength of our marriages, the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials... the Gross National Product measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country. It measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile, and it can tell us everything about America -- except whether we are proud to be Americans.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:17 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Theresa May refuses to condemn Trump refugee ban

Jamie Grierson Jamie Grierson
Theresa May has ducked a series of questions on Donald Trump’s migrant and refugee ban, according to reporters at the scene of a joint press conference with the Turkish PM.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/liv ... -countries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Britain should be up in arms about all this, but instead we carry on thinking the Tories are doing a cracking job.
WTF?

WTF indeed.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:18 pm

FACT: If the UK doesn’t have a signed deal by April 2017, Brexit is in grave danger

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/06/29 ... ve-danger/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We did do this the other day (AH?) but thought it worth a revisit - Hugo, any thoughts?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:19 pm

I've just read the Guardian's report on Tom Watson's speech.

Message ends.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:32 pm

Watson was urging sensible action over Brexit at a conference in central London where he also said Britain must be open-minded about Donald Trump’s economic policies. He said he hoped the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, would meet the US president when he travels to the UK for a state visit later this year.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -in-months" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:34 pm

watson wrote:“But, let me just be very clear, I understand this is very unique circumstances and we are going to deal with this issue very sensitively.”

By regarding all of our Remain voters as metropolitan elites who deride and sneer.
The sensitivity is overwhelming.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:40 pm

Getting to the point where I want Corbyn gone just so that we can be rid of Watson as well

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:41 pm

How could it be done ? What would it take ?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:47 pm

yahyah wrote:How could it be done ? What would it take ?

Someone would have to challenge him again, not sure anyone is up for that...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:51 pm

I was just clutching at straws in the hope that some new, improved and quick way of sorting out the mess had suddenly presented itself.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:54 pm

The way people tried to get rid of Jez last summer was precisely the wrong way.

He is vulnerable now because his approach over Brexit has cost him the support of some who previously strongly backed him. Senior people in Labour should try to get some sort of deal that he agrees to step down in the relatively near future, in return for a left candidate being guaranteed access to the ballot in the subsequent contest.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 5:58 pm

Something to feel hopeful about.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 6:10 pm

To be honest I've more interest in how/when someone overthrows May

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 28 Jan, 2017 6:12 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The way people tried to get rid of Jez last summer was precisely the wrong way.

He is vulnerable now because his approach over Brexit has cost him the support of some who previously strongly backed him. Senior people in Labour should try to get some sort of deal that he agrees to step down in the relatively near future, in return for a left candidate being guaranteed access to the ballot in the subsequent contest.

After his mistake in pmq's last week I'd be surprised if stepping down hadn't crossed his mind. It was a stark reminder of the huge responsibility of the role, a role he never even wanted in the first place.