Monday 30th January 2017

Post by **refitman** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 7:09 am

Morning all.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 7:43 am

Iraq and the EU.

I think Labour MPs who vote for Art 50 will regret it, just as they did with Iraq.

One good thing about this farce is that it has exposed the truth about the leadership following the members.

As for Trump. I hope we can all get through 4 more years of this.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 7:45 am

Parliament of Lemmings

https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.c ... -lemmings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:27 am

Good morning.

Couldn't agree more.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... rticle-50/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:33 am

Morning.

I don't know about you, but I get angrier almost by the hour. Check out this for an explanation of why the petition will, of course, be ignored:

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SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:39 am

pk1 wrote:Good morning.

Couldn't agree more.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... rticle-50/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At least that has an apology at the start. The likes of Monbiot, Williams and Jones need to apologise too, and not just admit error.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:48 am

Just by the by, I asked for this on DVD at Christmas and watched the first one last night. Today is the 84th anniversary. And from Thursday night, it is being repeated on BBC4:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0074kmy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:01 am

NonOxCol wrote:Just by the by, I asked for this on DVD at Christmas and watched the first one last night. Today is the 84th anniversary. And from Thursday night, it is being repeated on BBC4:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0074kmy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm a little disturbed by the bottom of the page you link to -

Similar programmes:- The Great Interior Design Challenge.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:05 am

Morning all.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:23 am

Long thread, but worth it if you have time. Until recently this was my benchmark for the most horrific thing to happen (certainly in Europe) since the end of the Cold War. I thought Major's non-intervention was dreadfully weak, but next to May, sheesh...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:36 am

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... source=twb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Clarifying Moment in American History

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:47 am

Oh dear oh dear.

I don't normally believe in conspiracy theories. But.

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citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:50 am

Good-morning, everyone.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:55 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Oh dear of dear.

I don't normally believe in conspiracy theories. But.

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I was going to highlight this from a different source but as it's here - WTF?

Yesterday’s reorganization of the National Security Council mirrors this: Bannon and Priebus now have permanent seats on the Principals’ Committee; the Director of National Intelligence and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff have both been demoted to only attending meetings where they are told that their expertise is relevant; the Secretary of Energy and the US representative to the UN were kicked off the committee altogether (in defiance of the authorizing statute, incidentally).

Which probably means they won't be invited at all and they won't ever find out whether they should have been invited.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:55 am

Cheery

The young are becoming right-authoritarians

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... C656EEAB20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

martinson · Post by **martinson** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:07 am

Good morning
Some prescient stuff from last year

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/11179774" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... trump.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:29 am

More good news:

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AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:35 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
pk1 wrote:Good morning.

Couldn't agree more.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... rticle-50/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At least that has an apology at the start. The likes of Monbiot, Williams and Jones need to apologise too, and not just admit error.

Yes, that's what we need - SHOW TRIALS!

Did you notice the French result last night? Outdated, reheated Blairism is being rejected across the world.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:45 am

martinson wrote:Good morning
Some prescient stuff from last year

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/11179774" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... trump.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Our slavish adherence to "democracy" will be our undoing?

You do realise this just makes me even more convinced MPs shouldn't vote to leave the EU, an act they know will make us poorer and more isolated and vulnerable, just because a small majority of people believed what they read in the tabloids and asked for it. Whenever you see leave voters on the tv they are old. Old people, happy they have got their country back, who probably won't be around long enough to see the full extent of the damage they have voted for. And I try not to resent them, I really do, because after all Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Liam Fox, Nigel Farage and all the rest said it would be fine. How were they to know it really wouldn't be fine? Not fine for the people who have left Britain to make their lives in other parts of the EU, not for young people who rely on the jobs our membership of the EU brings, not for our economy that is still disastrously imbalanced and reliant on a financial sector which will leave before we have a chance to replace it's economic input with something else.

And you know the other thing, having read those articles? I find myself very, very not OK with Jeremy Corbyn's lack of support for NATO. I'm suddenly finding that very naive and foolish, more than I have ever done before (and I have found that before, it's part of why I continue to have difficulty with the idea of trusting him as a future PM). America is teetering on the brink under Trump, the most unreliable it has ever been as an ally (and let's face it, it's not always been especially reliable even before now) and we think this would be a good time to unravel ourselves from our long-standing and close relationships with our EU partners and go it alone?!!!

I don't care if it comes off as patronising but any MP who votes against Brexit will be voting in our best interests and doing this country a favour and I will defend their actions to the hilt against the "will of the people" brigade. We have a representative democracy for a reason.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:50 am

Coming to the conclusion that democracy is bad is a very dangerous road to go down, especially for "progressives" and leftists.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:55 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Coming to the conclusion that democracy is bad is a very dangerous road to go down, especially for "progressives" and leftists.

Coming to the conclusion what we've got is democracy is very dangerous for everyone.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:56 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Coming to the conclusion that democracy is bad is a very dangerous road to go down, especially for "progressives" and leftists.

Not the formal institutions of representative democracy, but direct democracy, "mob rule", the tyranny of the majority. Putting an opinion poll above the constitutionally established sovereignty of parliament is what I consider dangerous.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:33 am

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Peter Walker ‏@peterwalker99 13m13 minutes ago

By the look of note from US embassy in UK, *all* UK dual nationals from the 7 countries are still banned https://uk.usembassy.gov/executive-orde ... nationals/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

So a rushed policy not being examined by the appropriate departments starts to fall to bits under examination? Who'd have thunk it...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:36 am

Should the UN have its headquarters in a country that is banning people from some countries from entry?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:39 am

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eveni ... 53031.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Evening Standard editor Sarah Sands to join BBC as editor of the Today programme

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... g-standard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:39 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
pk1 wrote:Good morning.

Couldn't agree more.

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017 ... rticle-50/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At least that has an apology at the start. The likes of Monbiot, Williams and Jones need to apologise too, and not just admit error.
Yes, that's what we need - SHOW TRIALS!

Did you notice the French result last night? Outdated, reheated Blairism is being rejected across the world.

They had the French Presidential elections last night did they? Macron has lost has he?

Or perhaps you're referring to a leftist party shooting itself in the face? That does indeed have amusing parallels.

Vive la revolution!

Forward brothers and sisters, to fourth place!

Seriously, it is important we remember who the idiots who urged us down this path were, so that we can safely ignore them in the future.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:41 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Coming to the conclusion that democracy is bad is a very dangerous road to go down, especially for "progressives" and leftists.

It is dangerous. Which is why you need things like a separation of powers and human rights.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:44 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eveni ... 53031.html

Evening Standard editor Sarah Sands to join BBC as editor of the Today programme

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... g-standard" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fuck's sake. That'll help.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:45 am

SH

The basis of a character in Little Britain?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:53 am

Over a million signatures now on the petition to prevent Donald Trump making a state visit:

1,137,694 to be exact.

Apparently once a state visit invitation has been extended it's bad form to rescind it. Quite a few green card holders would probably agree it's bad manners to change your mind on a whim. Still hoping the Queen has a mild sniffle on the day and Trump is stuck with Charles instead.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:54 am

Good morfternoon.

Can someone clear up something for me, please? What exactly did Theresa May gain from the US during her pilgrimage there? I'm at a bit of a loss, although I keep hearing that the trip was a great success.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:56 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
At least that has an apology at the start. The likes of Monbiot, Williams and Jones need to apologise too, and not just admit error.
Yes, that's what we need - SHOW TRIALS!

Did you notice the French result last night? Outdated, reheated Blairism is being rejected across the world.

They had the French Presidential elections last night did they? Macron has lost has he?

Or perhaps you're referring to a leftist party shooting itself in the face? That does indeed have amusing parallels.

Vive la revolution!

Forward brothers and sisters, to fourth place!

Seriously, it is important we remember who the idiots who urged us down this path were, so that we can safely ignore them in the future.

Idiots? Just take a look at their policies. For much of the twentieth century they would have been considered normal left of centre politicians. But now in the 21st they are "idiots"?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:57 am

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... travel-ban" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK government faces cross-party calls for urgent debate on US travel ban

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:57 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Can someone clear up something for me, please? What exactly did Theresa May gain from the US during her pilgrimage there? I'm at a bit of a loss, although I keep hearing that the trip was a great success.

That red suit was better than the multi-coloured Brexit one wasn't it? So something to be pleased about

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:58 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Can someone clear up something for me, please? What exactly did Theresa May gain from the US during her pilgrimage there? I'm at a bit of a loss, although I keep hearing that the trip was a great success.

She gets to shout "First!"

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 11:58 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Yes, that's what we need - SHOW TRIALS!

Did you notice the French result last night? Outdated, reheated Blairism is being rejected across the world.

They had the French Presidential elections last night did they? Macron has lost has he?

Or perhaps you're referring to a leftist party shooting itself in the face? That does indeed have amusing parallels.

Vive la revolution!

Forward brothers and sisters, to fourth place!

Seriously, it is important we remember who the idiots who urged us down this path were, so that we can safely ignore them in the future.
Idiots? Just take a look at their policies. For much of the twentieth century they would have been considered normal left of centre politicians. But now in the 21st they are "idiots"?

Breath. Wasted.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:00 pm

She managed to divert his hand into hers.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:02 pm

You know how John Redwood always comes across as ever so slightly not of this age?

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SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:05 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Yes, that's what we need - SHOW TRIALS!

Did you notice the French result last night? Outdated, reheated Blairism is being rejected across the world.

They had the French Presidential elections last night did they? Macron has lost has he?

Or perhaps you're referring to a leftist party shooting itself in the face? That does indeed have amusing parallels.

Vive la revolution!

Forward brothers and sisters, to fourth place!

Seriously, it is important we remember who the idiots who urged us down this path were, so that we can safely ignore them in the future.
Idiots? Just take a look at their policies. For much of the twentieth century they would have been considered normal left of centre politicians. But now in the 21st they are "idiots"?

You think an electoral strategy that will ensure that the French Socialists come an unprecedented (bad) fourth in the coming election is a good one? Their worst performance, by far, in the history of the Republic.

Breath wasted indeed.

Come with me to the wilderness!

I'd be voting for the Blairite. If he beats Fillon into second place into the first round, you would be too.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:07 pm

European Union Referendum Bill
16 June 2015

The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)
I will start by addressing amendment 16, moved by the right hon. Member for Gordon (Alex Salmond). I was not surprised that he and his party should have moved such an amendment or that they had the support of Plaid Cymru in so doing, but I doubt whether the right hon. Gentleman will be shocked when I say that the Government do not intend to accept it.

Amendment 16 does not make sense in the context of the Bill. The legislation is about holding a vote; it makes no provision for what follows. The referendum is advisory...

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2 ... 1658000526" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:09 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:You know how John Redwood always comes across as ever so slightly not of this age?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He comes across as dumber than sh** for any age.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:09 pm

Forgive me, but Jesus wept...

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PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:10 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:You know how John Redwood always comes across as ever so slightly not of this age?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Student loan debts cancelled announces John Redwood.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... free-press" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anti-pipeline activists and film-makers face prison, raising fears for free press
Trials begin Monday in Washington state after actions intended to shut down oil sands pipelines, in solidarity with Standing Rock Sioux tribe’s efforts

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:15 pm

Et tu Dan

http://labourlist.org/2017/01/dan-jarvi ... rticle-50/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

labour making it easy to know who to vote for.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:16 pm

Anushka Asthana (@GuardianAnushka)

Govt sources saying the FCO statement last night was signed off by president Trump's team, and insists "they are in charge"
January 30, 2017

(Politics Live, Guardian)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:18 pm

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... ce-16-175/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ministers questioned on Adult Social Care

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Guide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stream 7

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:19 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Forgive me, but Jesus wept...

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state visit committee must be obeyed

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:19 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Forgive me, but Jesus wept...

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At least that suggests they know they've f***ed up. I guess that's something.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 12:20 pm

Terrible interference on this channel.