Monday 30th January 2017

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:32 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Yes.

It was stupid and discredited the serious critics.

Yep isn't a Nazi. He is very bad, but not that.
Trump is most certainly a fascist which is what Dennis called him - not a nazi I see your facts letting you down once more.

Fascism is, definitionally, a form of government. It doesn't mean "is right wing" or "does nasty things."

At the moment at least the United States remains a democracy. If and when Trump seizes power and ends elections, then you can plausibly start calling him a fascist.

Until that point, it looks like the ridiculous hyperbole the left so often uses about the US, discrediting itself and the serious objections to what is happening.

But I am sure you and Dennis feel very virtuous.

I'm sure somebody flagged here that Trump has already declared himself a candidate for the next election, which is highly unusual.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:34 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Trump is most certainly a fascist which is what Dennis called him - not a nazi I see your facts letting you down once more.

Fascism is, definitionally, a form of government. It doesn't mean "is right wing" or "does nasty things."

At the moment at least the United States remains a democracy. If and when Trump seizes power and ends elections, then you can plausibly start calling him a fascist.

Until that point, it looks like the ridiculous hyperbole the left so often uses about the US, discrediting itself and the serious objections to what is happening.

But I am sure you and Dennis feel very virtuous.
I'm sure somebody flagged here that Trump has already declared himself a candidate for the next election, which is highly unusual.

Absolutely.

And why do you think that transforms the US into a fascist state, or Trump into someone who favours a fascist system of government?

Words have meanings. it is just juvenile to equate "unpleasant and rightwing" with fascist or Nazi.

Skinner is, basically, a juvenile politician.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:35 pm

Note the tactics here. Now utterly unable to blame Corbyn for Trump's behaviour, SH starts almost to defend Trump instead.

Heaven forbid we should discuss the Prime Minister or Foreign Secretary of the UK eh?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:36 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Fascism is, definitionally, a form of government. It doesn't mean "is right wing" or "does nasty things."

At the moment at least the United States remains a democracy. If and when Trump seizes power and ends elections, then you can plausibly start calling him a fascist.

Until that point, it looks like the ridiculous hyperbole the left so often uses about the US, discrediting itself and the serious objections to what is happening.

But I am sure you and Dennis feel very virtuous.
I'm sure somebody flagged here that Trump has already declared himself a candidate for the next election, which is highly unusual.

Absolutely.

And why do you think that transforms the US into a fascist state, or Trump into someone who favours a fascist system of government?

Words have meanings. it is just juvenile to equate "unpleasant and rightwing" with fascist or Nazi.

Skinner is, basically, a juvenile politician.

He is quite juvenile, but he's right most of the time eh?

Emperor's new clothes and all that.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:38 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
pk1 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: Oops! Afraid I got it wrong as well. Dyslexia makes me over reliant on spell check, if I don't get a red line I take it as right. I also had a brother-in-law who's name was "Denis" with one "N" so doesn't look odd to me (....or maybe I spelt his name wrong all that time and he never told me... yikes! what a thought)
Pretty sure it was obvious who you were speaking of. My iPad corrects Corbyn to Corbin - sometimes I go back & change it, other times I can't be arsed because quite honestly, everybody knows who I mean at those times.
In any case:
I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.
I read that and didn't notice spelling till the end...
*going for a lie down... lol

Don't know where this originated:

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pc
It plainly marks four my revue
Miss steaks eye can knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rarely ever wrong.

I’ve run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect in it's weigh
My chequer tolled me sew

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:40 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Note the tactics here. Now utterly unable to blame Corbyn for Trump's behaviour, SH starts almost to defend Trump instead.

Heaven forbid we should discuss the Prime Minister or Foreign Secretary of the UK eh?

Look back up the thread please. To say I have defended Trump is silly. Quite the opposite.

What I have said is that critics shouldn't reach for silly hyperbole. Calling him a Satanist or a Nazi may make some people feel warm, but is daft, and won't convince anyone who is not already persuaded.

He is a mysoginist and a racist. Why do you have to reach for fascist (which if the word means something, he isn't)?

That is part of the problem with certain sections of the left. It is so convinced of its own virtue that it doesn't see the need to persuade anybody who doesn't already agree.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:44 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Note the tactics here. Now utterly unable to blame Corbyn for Trump's behaviour, SH starts almost to defend Trump instead.

Heaven forbid we should discuss the Prime Minister or Foreign Secretary of the UK eh?

Look back up the thread please. To say I have defended Trump is silly. Quite the opposite.

What I have said is that critics shouldn't reach for silly hyperbole. Calling him a Satanist or a Nazi may make some people feel warm, but is daft, and won't convince anyone who is not already persuaded.

He is a mysoginist and a racist. Why do you have to reach for fascist (which if the word means something, he isn't)?

That is part of the problem with certain sections of the left. It is so convinced of its own virtue that it doesn't see the need to persuade anybody who doesn't already agree.

While you are at liberty to call Benoit Hamon an "idiot"?

martinson · Post by **martinson** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:48 pm

Good evening. Just a quick query that's been nagging at me for a while.
Do you think that some sort of 'fifth columnist' strategy could undermine a political blog?
If so what features might make it recognisable?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:48 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Note the tactics here. Now utterly unable to blame Corbyn for Trump's behaviour, SH starts almost to defend Trump instead.

Heaven forbid we should discuss the Prime Minister or Foreign Secretary of the UK eh?

Look back up the thread please. To say I have defended Trump is silly. Quite the opposite.

What I have said is that critics shouldn't reach for silly hyperbole. Calling him a Satanist or a Nazi may make some people feel warm, but is daft, and won't convince anyone who is not already persuaded.

He is a mysoginist and a racist. Why do you have to reach for fascist (which if the word means something, he isn't)?

That is part of the problem with certain sections of the left. It is so convinced of its own virtue that it doesn't see the need to persuade anybody who doesn't already agree.
While you are at liberty to call Benoit Hamon an "idiot"?

Voting for him as the Socialist candidate is an act of complete idiocy if you want to actually win. See also Corbyn. I is important to win, and those who say it doesn't matter if Miliband or Cameron, or Clinton or Trump win as "they're all the same" are wrong.

I don't think I called Hamon himself an idiot. Fortunately there is a candidate, Macron, who is credible and so Hamon, and the Socialist Party, can be forgotten about. Fingers crossed he beats Fillon into the run off. Otherwise it is a grim choice.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:48 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
pk1 wrote: Pretty sure it was obvious who you were speaking of. My iPad corrects Corbyn to Corbin - sometimes I go back & change it, other times I can't be arsed because quite honestly, everybody knows who I mean at those times.
In any case:
I read that and didn't notice spelling till the end...
*going for a lie down... lol
Don't know where this originated:

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pc
It plainly marks four my revue
Miss steaks eye can knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rarely ever wrong.

I’ve run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect in it's weigh
My chequer tolled me sew

Very good.
Except when you live that every day, through every word you type
A sensitive subject for me, but I won't be made to feel ashamed of my dyslexia, I had enough of that at school.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:53 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Yes.

It was stupid and discredited the serious critics.

Yep isn't a Nazi. He is very bad, but not that.
Trump is most certainly a fascist which is what Dennis called him - not a nazi I see your facts letting you down once more.

Fascism is, definitionally, a form of government. It doesn't mean "is right wing" or "does nasty things."

At the moment at least the United States remains a democracy. If and when Trump seizes power and ends elections, then you can plausibly start calling him a fascist.

Until that point, it looks like the ridiculous hyperbole the left so often uses about the US, discrediting itself and the serious objections to what is happening.

But I am sure you and Dennis feel very virtuous.

Ah its good to see you demonstrating youir usual level of ignorance.

1. There is nothing stopping a democracy being fascist, indeed the most notable examples are of democracies corrupted by fascist ideology.
2. Trump by every imaginable definition of the word, is a fascist. That you do not understand that - or choose to pretend otherwise - does not surprise me.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:56 pm

martinson wrote:Good evening. Just a quick query that's been nagging at me for a while.
Do you think that some sort of 'fifth columnist' strategy could undermine a political blog?
If so what features might make it recognisable?

Ask Hugo he's the expert in that strategy.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:56 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm sure somebody flagged here that Trump has already declared himself a candidate for the next election, which is highly unusual.

Apparently that's to get the money to start rolling in...

I wouldn't go so far as fascist but it's worrying when he starts to ignore the instruments of government and simply rely on unelected advisors.

I'd say the British system of a permanent civil service has much to commend itself right now given what's happening over there.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 8:59 pm

AngryAsWell wrote: Very good.
Except when you live that every day, through every word you type
A sensitive subject for me, but I won't be made to feel ashamed of my dyslexia, I had enough of that at school.

No offence intended - just a dig at the unreliability of technology!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:00 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm sure somebody flagged here that Trump has already declared himself a candidate for the next election, which is highly unusual.
Apparently that's to get the money to start rolling in...

I wouldn't go so far as fascist but it's worrying when he starts to ignore the instruments of government and simply rely on unelected advisors.

I'd say the British system of a permanent civil service has much to commend itself right now given what's happening over there.

Additionally he may be able to get away with more lies by saying he was acting as a candidate not as the President when he said it, for example using his personal Twitter account.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:01 pm

'Sean Michael Spicer is an American political strategist and current White House Press Secretary and Communications Director for President Donald Trump'

Never heard of the guy.

Spicer again speaking about the travel ban.
“This is about the safety of America. ...these steps are frankly common sense steps to make sure we’re never looking at the rear-view mirror asking ‘we should have done something’, says Spicer."
- Trump travel ban: president defends order amid new lawsuit challenges – live

Common sense steps in response to what?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:06 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: Very good.
Except when you live that every day, through every word you type
A sensitive subject for me, but I won't be made to feel ashamed of my dyslexia, I had enough of that at school.
No offence intended - just a dig at the unreliability of technology!

None taken, its just people have no idea how hard it can be at times. I post short links or one line comments because otherwise I need to use word to compose a reply in order to check grammar & spelling, then copy and past it. By the time its done the moment has passed.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:10 pm

there is a difference between an oracle and an orifice

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:10 pm

so i understand

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:10 pm

Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Trump is most certainly a fascist which is what Dennis called him - not a nazi I see your facts letting you down once more.

Fascism is, definitionally, a form of government. It doesn't mean "is right wing" or "does nasty things."

At the moment at least the United States remains a democracy. If and when Trump seizes power and ends elections, then you can plausibly start calling him a fascist.

Until that point, it looks like the ridiculous hyperbole the left so often uses about the US, discrediting itself and the serious objections to what is happening.

But I am sure you and Dennis feel very virtuous.
Ah its good to see you demonstrating youir usual level of ignorance.

1. There is nothing stopping a democracy being fascist, indeed the most notable examples are of democracies corrupted by fascist ideology.
2. Trump by every imaginable definition of the word, is a fascist. That you do not understand that - or choose to pretend otherwise - does not surprise me.

Fascinating. Which societies were simultaneously fascist and functioning democracies?

One would do.

You must have dozens, it being so obvious and me being so ignorant.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:11 pm

(assuming current dictionary definitions are still in play)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:13 pm

@Eric_WLothian
Thank you for your post regarding Dublin airport

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:20 pm

Edit to remove, too personal, sorry

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:29 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Fascism is, definitionally, a form of government. It doesn't mean "is right wing" or "does nasty things."

At the moment at least the United States remains a democracy. If and when Trump seizes power and ends elections, then you can plausibly start calling him a fascist.

Until that point, it looks like the ridiculous hyperbole the left so often uses about the US, discrediting itself and the serious objections to what is happening.

But I am sure you and Dennis feel very virtuous.
Ah its good to see you demonstrating youir usual level of ignorance.

1. There is nothing stopping a democracy being fascist, indeed the most notable examples are of democracies corrupted by fascist ideology.
2. Trump by every imaginable definition of the word, is a fascist. That you do not understand that - or choose to pretend otherwise - does not surprise me.
Fascinating. Which societies were simultaneously fascist and functioning democracies?

One would do.

You must have dozens, it being so obvious and me being so ignorant.

I mentioned the corruption of democracies not functioning ones, as usual you try and twist away from your ignorance by changing the focus of attack, much like changing fascist for nazi, its not careless terminology on your part; its a deliberate attempt to obfusticate.

Given we are inn a situation where the man in the white house lost the popular vote and is ordering Homeland Security to ignore judicial orders, I no long think we can credit the US as being a functioning democracy. We are seeing it in the throes of glechshaltung - indeed it is almost a classic example. As I said Bannon has planned this for a long time. Whether the coup works and how robust the US constitution is will determine whether all our futures.

You are more historically ignorant than you are politically ignorant - or even legally ignorant, how did that supreme court judgement go again? - so I really would urge you to stop talking about t he subject - it really is cringeworthy.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:29 pm

Trump decides to use an executive order to place a blanket ban on people born in seven different countries from entering the US for no reason other than...

...the safety of America ...these steps are frankly common sense steps to make sure we’re never looking at the rear-view mirror asking ‘we should have done something'

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:32 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s-back-off" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
amendment-free Brexit bollocks.
From the party that hates us.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:34 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... yron-ebell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Green movement 'greatest threat to freedom', says Trump adviser
Climate-change denier Myron Ebell says he expects Trump to withdraw the US from the global climate change agreement

The environmental movement is “the greatest threat to freedom and prosperity in the modern world”, according to an adviser to the US president Donald Trump’s administration.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:35 pm

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggg
ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
gggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:36 pm

Dear America.
Too ****ing right you should have done something.

Then again, so should we.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:36 pm

Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote: Ah its good to see you demonstrating youir usual level of ignorance.

1. There is nothing stopping a democracy being fascist, indeed the most notable examples are of democracies corrupted by fascist ideology.
2. Trump by every imaginable definition of the word, is a fascist. That you do not understand that - or choose to pretend otherwise - does not surprise me.
Fascinating. Which societies were simultaneously fascist and functioning democracies?

One would do.

You must have dozens, it being so obvious and me being so ignorant.
I mentioned the corruption of democracies not functioning ones, as usual you try and twist away from your ignorance by changing the focus of attack, much like changing fascist for nazi, its not careless terminology on your part; its a deliberate attempt to obfusticate.

Given we are inn a situation where the man in the white house lost the popular vote and is ordering Homeland Security to ignore judicial orders, I no long think we can credit the US as being a functioning democracy. We are seeing it in the throes of glechshaltung - indeed it is almost a classic example. As I said Bannon has planned this for a long time. Whether the coup works and how robust the US constitution is will determine whether all our futures.

You are more historically ignorant than you are politically ignorant - or even legally ignorant, how did that supreme court judgement go again? - so I really would urge you to stop talking about t he subject - it really is cringeworthy.

Right. So you seem at least to have conceded my point that fascism is a system of government. Trump would have to be proposing to end the Us system of elected government to be a fascist.

He isn't.

But no doubt fascist has other definitions of which I, in my poor state of ignorance, am unaware of.

Racist, mysoginist, delusional, extremist. All fine.

Fascist, Nazi, not. Silly juvenile hyperbole.

As for claiming the US is no longer a functioning democracy, that is the foolish anti-American hyperbole of which the left is so often guilty.

It is I am afraid. It may have elected someone who you and I strongly disapprove of (and I know he got fewer votes- those were the rules). But it is a democracy.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:37 pm

apologies for lack of genuinely informative content.
too busy seething and aaarrrrggghhhhing just now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:40 pm

I got a bad feeling about current affairs
from the mountains, to the prairies, to the oceans white with foam
In the UK, in the US
nothing making any sense
Brexit
Travel Bans

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:41 pm

Thousands protest across UK in wake of US travel ban – politics live
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

good.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:42 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Dear America.
Too ****ing right you should have done something.

Then again, so should we.

I don't think it's a good something getting done though

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:45 pm

Calling the Holocaust ‘sad’ is the first step towards denying it ever happened
Jonathan Freedland
On Holocaust Memorial Day, the White House issued a statement that did not mention Jews or antisemitism – but this was no oversight by the new administration

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... r-happened" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:45 pm

speaking of dictionaries:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... neologisms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trumpertantrum, trumpkin and trumponomics are among a fresh crop of pejorative terms that may find a place in the OED, say lexicographers

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:46 pm

along with the new complex noun:

total****ing****ard

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:48 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Thousands protest across UK in wake of US travel ban – politics live
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
good.

pace yourselves, people
do the unexpected
ask Mexico or Canada for an invite and go
That'd mess with Trump's head
millions of US citizens leaving the US

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:56 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Right. So you seem at least to have conceded my point that fascism is a system of government. Trump would have to be proposing to end the Us system of elected government to be a fascist.

He isn't.

But no doubt fascist has other definitions of which I, in my poor state of ignorance, am unaware of.

Racist, mysoginist, delusional, extremist. All fine.

Fascist, Nazi, not. Silly juvenile hyperbole.

As for claiming the US is no longer a functioning democracy, that is the foolish anti-American hyperbole of which the left is so often guilty.

It is I am afraid. It may have elected someone who you and I strongly disapprove of (and I know he got fewer votes- those were the rules). But it is a democracy.

Whereas for right wingers like you it's OK to call French presidential candidates "idiots".

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 9:59 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Fascinating. Which societies were simultaneously fascist and functioning democracies?

One would do.

You must have dozens, it being so obvious and me being so ignorant.
I mentioned the corruption of democracies not functioning ones, as usual you try and twist away from your ignorance by changing the focus of attack, much like changing fascist for nazi, its not careless terminology on your part; its a deliberate attempt to obfusticate.

Given we are inn a situation where the man in the white house lost the popular vote and is ordering Homeland Security to ignore judicial orders, I no long think we can credit the US as being a functioning democracy. We are seeing it in the throes of glechshaltung - indeed it is almost a classic example. As I said Bannon has planned this for a long time. Whether the coup works and how robust the US constitution is will determine whether all our futures.

You are more historically ignorant than you are politically ignorant - or even legally ignorant, how did that supreme court judgement go again? - so I really would urge you to stop talking about t he subject - it really is cringeworthy.
Right. So you seem at least to have conceded my point that fascism is a system of government. Trump would have to be proposing to end the Us system of elected government to be a fascist.

He isn't.

But no doubt fascist has other definitions of which I, in my poor state of ignorance, am unaware of.

Racist, mysoginist, delusional, extremist. All fine.

Fascist, Nazi, not. Silly juvenile hyperbole.

As for claiming the US is no longer a functioning democracy, that is the foolish anti-American hyperbole of which the left is so often guilty.

It is I am afraid. It may have elected someone who you and I strongly disapprove of (and I know he got fewer votes- those were the rules). But it is a democracy.

I have never once claimed that fascism is not a system of government; not once, never, not in my academic or writing career, not as a lecturer or teacher teaching the subject, not fucking once, you sir are a mendacious liar to suggest otherwise.

Trying to claim I have conceded a point that you have only just made, which is both irrelevant, not in dispute and not remotely related to anything I have said - both cringewothry and increasingly pathetic.

The US is no more a functioning democracy than weimar in 33. Learn some history and political theory you ignoramus.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:01 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Right. So you seem at least to have conceded my point that fascism is a system of government. Trump would have to be proposing to end the Us system of elected government to be a fascist.

He isn't.

But no doubt fascist has other definitions of which I, in my poor state of ignorance, am unaware of.

Racist, mysoginist, delusional, extremist. All fine.

Fascist, Nazi, not. Silly juvenile hyperbole.

As for claiming the US is no longer a functioning democracy, that is the foolish anti-American hyperbole of which the left is so often guilty.

It is I am afraid. It may have elected someone who you and I strongly disapprove of (and I know he got fewer votes- those were the rules). But it is a democracy.
Whereas for right wingers like you it's OK to call French presidential candidates "idiots".

Yet again, the idiots are those who vote for candidates who are guaranteed to lose (Hamon, Corbyn).

I disapprove of those saying it doesn't matter if a right-winger or a Clinton/Blair wins as they're all the same.

Trump and May are showing you that that is, indeed, idiotic.

Do you, really think Hamon will win? Corbyn? Really?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:07 pm

Temulkar wrote:

The US is no more a functioning democracy than weimar in 33. Learn some history and political theory you ignoramus.

I see.

So Trump has ended democratic elections and there is no longer any means of removing him from power by democratic means. Just like Germany 1933.

And I'm the ignoramus.

I see.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:18 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote:

The US is no more a functioning democracy than weimar in 33. Learn some history and political theory you ignoramus.

I see.

So Trump has ended democratic elections and there is no longer any means of removing him from power by democratic means. Just like Germany 1933.

And I'm the ignoramus.

I see.

1. two free and fair elections held in germany in 1932. Hitler and the Nazi party were the largest unit in the reichstag and with the support of the nationalist party formed the legitimate elected government in a coalition in Jan 33. A legally and democratically elected chancellor

2. The first unfree and unfair election in Germany was after his election after the reichstag fire, and the process of gleichshaltung completing the corruption o f the democracy to a fascist dictatorship was not complete until 1934, after death of hindenburg.

Hitler was a fascist all that time, he didn't become a fascist after coming to power, he didn't become a fascist after destroying the republic, you utterly cretinous individual. He had to corrupt a democracy, it takes time, and nobody stopped him when they had the chance at the start, because they listened to twats like you who tried to obscure what he was, but he was still a fascist all along.

You really really really are one dumb ignorant fuck.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:20 pm

Article 50 offers no mechanism to withdraw a notification of intent to leave.

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/votin ... rticle-50/

The authoritative source for independent research on UK-EU relations
Brexit: What you need to know
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:25 pm

Gary Lineker joins protest against Donald Trump's Muslim ban
The former England striker was spotted at a huge protest calling for Donald Trump's state visit to be cancelled

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ga ... st-9724608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:26 pm

Temulkar wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
Temulkar wrote:

The US is no more a functioning democracy than weimar in 33. Learn some history and political theory you ignoramus.

I see.

So Trump has ended democratic elections and there is no longer any means of removing him from power by democratic means. Just like Germany 1933.

And I'm the ignoramus.

I see.
1. two free and fair elections held in germany in 1932. Hitler and the Nazi party were the largest unit in the reichstag and with the support of the nationalist party formed the legitimate elected government in a coalition in Jan 33. A legally and democratically elected chancellor

2. The first unfree and unfair election in Germany was after his election after the reichstag fire, and the process of gleichshaltung completing the corruption o f the democracy to a fascist dictatorship was not complete until 1934, after death of hindenburg.

Hitler was a fascist all that time, he didn't become a fascist after coming to power, he didn't become a fascist after destroying the republic, you utterly cretinous individual. He had to corrupt a democracy, it takes time, and nobody stopped him when they had the chance at the start, because they listened to twats like you who tried to obscure what he was, but he was still a fascist all along.

You really really really are one dumb ignorant fuck.

I am not sure how either the abuse or the repetition of GCSE history helps you much.

If Trump were proposing to end democratic government and seize power as Hitler, Mussolini or Franco did you might be right. He'd be a fascist, and this would be just like 1933 Germany.

Nobody thinks that. Including you when less cross.

Just silly hyperbole, unworthy of a fellow Green.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:33 pm

"For six months, parliament has struggled with the right response to a referendum that returned a result probably supported by fewer than 160
MPs. The vote was held under casually drafted regulations that ignored the importance of ensuring buy-in throughout the United Kingdom, which
is why the prime minister was playing catch-up in Wales and Ireland today. Parliament was told officially that referendums are no more than an
expression of political will.

But both sides insisted that the result would be irrevocable, and, by saying it, made it so.

Enfeebled by shock and uncertainty, and with no leave process mapped out, parliament failed to muster the resolve to force its way into the
process of departure. Genuinely taken aback by the extent of discontent the referendum exposed, afraid of being portrayed as an obstacle to
the will of the people, MPs’ lack of leadership has weakened parliament itself."

- The Guardian view on the Brexit debate: listen, Mrs May
Editorial

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:33 pm

Calling an obvious to all but the wilfully blind neo fascist what he is indeed left wing hyperbole,or just obvious to all but the wilfully blind.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:37 pm

Milky Way being pushed through space by cosmic dead zone, say scientists

That explains a lot.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 30 Jan, 2017 10:39 pm

HindleA wrote:Calling an obvious to all but the wilfully blind neo fascist what he is indeed left wing hyperbole,or just obvious to all but the wilfully blind.

Neo is doing a lot of work. Unless neo means "not".

Fascist means something.

A neo-dog is not a dog.

Again "fascist" doesn't mean "right-wing person with horrible views".