Thursday 2nd February 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 6:57 am

Morning

Rush to build new homes will increase flooding, experts warn
Plans for one million new homes by 2020 risk overwhelming drains, unless the government ends freeze on legal requirements for sustainable drainage

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... perts-warn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 6:58 am

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -dumb-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Australia struggling to save refugee agreement after Trump's fury at 'dumb deal'
Malcolm Turnbull adamant that resettlement of up to 1,250 refugees detained by Australia will take place, but some officials say privately deal now ‘can’t survive’

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 7:02 am

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... nstruction" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Over 70 arrested at Standing Rock as Dakota Access aims to finish pipeline
North Dakota police arrested 76 people one day after federal officials suggested that the government could soon approve the final stage of pipeline construction

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 7:04 am

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/0 ... ulos-talk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Riot Forces Cancellation Of Yiannopoulos Talk At UC Berkeley

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 7:39 am

Good morning. This is an excerpt from an interview with the seriously impressive Gina Miller

In 2012 Miller and her husband launched their True and Fair Campaign against hidden charges in savings in shares that sting members of the public. Regularly the fees charged are more than the return on the money invested, “so you are paying them to lose your money, it is absurd”.

“Imagine that you bought a top on a credit card. You pay £80. Then a month later your bill says £160. You wouldn’t be very happy about that. That’s what the fund management system has been doing for decades. At least 50 per cent of the fees are undisclosed.

“I’m normally asked who are the worst offenders. I say: ‘You don’t understand, in the entire industry there is no requirement for them to show you the true cost. None.’ This affects people. Everyone who has a pension. People who are being careful and prudent with their money, these are the very people who are being ripped off. The way the industry behaves is so irresponsible. We’re not going to have enough money to fund our ageing population, so we need a sector that is working.”

The banks should probably be grateful that Mrs May is unlikely to hire Ms Miller to head up an official inquiry into their behaviour. Millers determination to get to the truth does her huge credit.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/times ... -wbb2fpqzq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:21 am

Morning. And Happy Thursday to Lexiters everywhere.

Here is a more temperate but no less passionate version of the thread from last night, actually posted over three months ago as a warning to US electors:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:32 am

Morning.

It was interesting to see the way a certain word was used in the latest episode of the American TV drama 'This Is Us'.

Scene: Olivia flounces out of a house after words with the latest man she is toying with. She leaves with a f*** you attitude. Her would-be boyfriend is asked by his sister ''Where is Olivia ?'
''She's made a Brexit'' he tells her

(This is Us is brilliant. Well written, well acted, and full of interesting characters who would not vote Trump. It's on All4 and their catch up too.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/this-is-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:38 am

Diane Abbott wasn't well enough to turn up to vote last night ?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:38 am

It's all good though:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:39 am

@yahyah

Yes a colleague gave early notice yesterday of his plan to retire by announcing he was invoking Article 50

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:41 am

yahyah wrote:Diane Abbott wasn't well enough to turn up to vote last night ?

Fell sick just before the vote.

Poor thing, how unlucky.

I do hope she feels better today.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:45 am

And here's one of the responses to last night's thread:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do click on her bio as well.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:46 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning. And Happy Thursday to Lexiters everywhere.

Here is a more temperate but no less passionate version of the thread from last night, actually posted over three months ago as a warning to US electors:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for that link.

Paul said the other day that he guessed most people were either 'weak leave' or 'weak remain'.
Maybe it just reflects where I live and the people I socialise with or chat to, but there seems to be no weakness in their views and feelings about wanting to stay in the EU. The reasons are more than just concerns about the economy.

But, after hearing McDonnell this morning, I'm trying to muster optimism. We'll have to wait and see what happens.
This is not one of those situations where one wants to be right. If the Lexit/progressive dream comes to pass I'll be happy to eat humble pie.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:52 am

Haven't had time to read last night, was it full throated and frank ?

Can't help thinking Brexit is like my fall on the pavement. I was aching last night, but this morning pain and bruising has started in areas that didn't hurt yesterday, places where no direct contact was made with the ground. Brexit will be the same.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:59 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... nsultation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Heathrow third runway plans published for public consultation
Transport secretary Chris Grayling says plans send a signal that Britain will be open for business after Brexit

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:05 am

Interesting to see that two Lib Dems ~~voted with most of Labour and the Tories.~~
My MP Mark Williams was one of the 114 who voted against.

edited to correct. Informed further down the thread the two Libs abstained.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:06 am

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:15 am

Morning all.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:20 am

yahyah wrote:Haven't had time to read last night, was it full throated and frank ?

Can't help thinking Brexit is like my fall on the pavement. I was aching last night, but this morning pain and bruising has started in areas that didn't hurt yesterday, places where no direct contact was made with the ground. Brexit will be the same.

Here you go:

And I am heartbroken, bewildered, and DEMENTEDLY FURIOUS that those freedoms will be DENIED to my children. That my children will grow up NOT as citizens of the wayward rebellious cousin of a family of nations, but as subjects of a SMALL pinched, smug, insular, tight-fisted, tiny-minded, shrivel-hearted, piss-blooded NASTY little island. Whose only true "friend" will be the Fascist Behemoth across the pond our spineless "leaders" will be forced to pay grovelling court to. And for WHAT?! To hold the fucking Tory party together?! Because the Labour Party has scarcely one functioning ball between them?!! To avoid making honest but short sighted people recognise that they were sold a bill of goods by corrupt charlatans?! And to appease a bunch of Daily Mail-addled Tiny Englanders and daft old racist pensioners who won't even LIVE TO SEE IT HAPPEN??! THIS is why my kids' futures are being sold away? THIS is why my country - which I do LOVE, fuckers - is being ripped apart? For THIS?! Call me elitist. Don't fucking care. Say I hate democracy. Don't fucking care. Twat on about the will of the people. Don't fucking care. Something UNBELIEVABLY DESTRUCTIVE, STUPID AND UTTERLY POINTLESS is about to be done - on PURPOSE - to my country. I care about THAT.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:24 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... blic-roads" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Volvo seeks volunteers for self-driving car trial in UK
London testing of semi-autonomous vehicles on public roads is to be conducted in tandem with one in Gothenburg, Sweden

Post by **adam** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:26 am

NonOxCol wrote:It's all good though:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"People and dinosaurs are shown to scale."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:27 am

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... y-in-chief" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Turnbull tries out shirtfronting Trump as a way to handle the bully-in-chief
Katharine Murphy

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:32 am

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN15G5RX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

U.S. military probing more possible civilian deaths in Yemen raid

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:33 am

Yahyah, there's at least one journalist referencing it.

'
Jim Waterson – Verified account ‏@jimwaterson

Tim Farron faces major parliamentary rebellion as 22% of Lib Dem MPs fail to back his anti-Brexit stance in vote. Both of them abstained.'

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:34 am

yahyah wrote:Interesting to see that two Lib Dems voted with most of Labour and the Tories.
My MP Mark Williams was one of the 114.

Morning yahyah. I thought they'd abstained ?

(edit- too slow again )

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:36 am

Channel 4 [or was it Sky News ?] showed a vox pop from Stoke.
Two women expressed support for what Trump was doing. One linked Paul Nuttall to Trump [she said something like 'he knows him doesn't he ?] and sounded enthusiastic because of that.

This is genuinely scary. Only two people expressing those views but they won't be alone in the country and are ripe for picking by the far right.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:39 am

Lost Soul wrote:
yahyah wrote:Interesting to see that two Lib Dems voted with most of Labour and the Tories.
My MP Mark Williams was one of the 114.
Morning yahyah. I thought they'd abstained ?

(edit- too slow again )

Morning LS.
Aah, That makes sense. Caught it on Radio 4, must have misheard. Not voting for doesn't mean they necessarily voted against.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:39 am

yahyah wrote:Channel 4 [or was it Sky News ?] showed a vox pop from Stoke.
Two women expressed support for what Trump was doing. One linked Paul Nuttall to Trump [she said something like 'he knows him doesn't he ?] and sounded enthusiastic because of that.

This is genuinely scary. Only two people expressing those views but they won't be alone in the country and are ripe for picking by the far right.

Trust in the church. They don't just put people and dinosaurs on the Ark in a science book. They do politics too:

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/e ... 104335.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:41 am

Thanks Stephen. 22% sounds a lot, only actually two MPs

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 9:56 am

Hi Hanny ! Welcome.

Have just caught up with some of last night's thread and saw your post. Much appreciated to see you brave a response to what you have seen.

Hope you like cakes ! Look forward to hearing more from you.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 10:08 am

Good morfternoon.

(Or, "What-ho Big Britainers!")

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 10:09 am

@Hanny

Hello, there!

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 10:13 am

Got to say, this is not the toughest jigsaw puzzle I've ever done:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 10:47 am

yahyah wrote:Thanks Stephen. 22% sounds a lot, only actually two MPs

That's framing for you

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 10:51 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... blic-roads

Volvo seeks volunteers for self-driving car trial in UK
London testing of semi-autonomous vehicles on public roads is to be conducted in tandem with one in Gothenburg, Sweden

Anyone here know what the point of self-driving cars is? Can't see it myself.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 10:53 am

http://newsthump.com/2017/02/02/parliam ... rect-foot/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Parliament decides it’s vital we shoot ourselves in the correct foot

A bunch of idiots elected by a country of idiots have voted that it’s critical we decide exactly which foot we want to shoot ourselves in, rather than just picking one at random and going with it.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 10:55 am

Speaking of framing, my go to guy on this...

'The American Majority got 2.8 million more votes in the 2016 election than the Loser President. That puts the majority in a position to change American political discourse and how Americans understand and think about politics. As a start, what is needed is a change of viewpoint.

Here is a typical example. Minority President Trump has said that he intends to get rid of 75% of government regulations. What is a “regulation”?

The term “regulation” is framed from the viewpoint of corporations and other businesses. From their viewpoint, “regulations” are limitations on their freedom to do whatever they want no matter who it harms. But from the public’s viewpoint, a regulation is a protection against harm done by unscrupulous corporations seeking to maximize profit at the cost of harm to the public....

Imagine reporters finding out and reporting all over America exactly what protections would be removed. Imagine Republican officials, and media in their districts (including social media) swamped with calls, letters, emails, and tweets from voters protesting the removal of such protections, day after day. That is only one example of shifting the frame — the word and the meaning of the word — to a public viewpoint.'

https://georgelakoff.com/2017/01/28/the ... otections/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **adam** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 10:57 am

Willow904 wrote:http://newsthump.com/2017/02/02/parliam ... rect-foot/

Parliament decides it’s vital we shoot ourselves in the correct foot

A bunch of idiots elected by a country of idiots have voted that it’s critical we decide exactly which foot we want to shoot ourselves in, rather than just picking one at random and going with it.

Mr Crobyn, the leader of the Other party, said "Whilst we know this is a bad idea, we have to accept that the country has decided to shoot itself in the foot and so we feel we must accept the will of the people to self-harm and support the government's right to decide on which foot to shoot".

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:14 am

Labour lost its overall majority on a major London borough today as a councillor defected to the Liberal Democrats over Europe.

Tower Hamlets councillor Andrew Cregan revealed his decision exclusively to the Evening Standard and said Jeremy Corbyn’s decision to support the Government on triggering Article 50 had been the last straw.

It is a blow to John Biggs, the Labour executive mayor who won control of the strife-torn borough in 2015 after disgraced Lutfur Rahman was removed from office.

The balance of power now swings from a 24-22 Labour majority to no overall control.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 56276.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stephen Bush in the NS yesterday claimed 7000 people had resigned their Labour membership over the party stance on Brexit.

How many more will join them

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:20 am

pk1 wrote:
Labour lost its overall majority on a major London borough today as a councillor defected to the Liberal Democrats over Europe.

Tower Hamlets councillor Andrew Cregan revealed his decision exclusively to the Evening Standard and said Jeremy Corbyn’s decision to support the Government on triggering Article 50 had been the last straw.

It is a blow to John Biggs, the Labour executive mayor who won control of the strife-torn borough in 2015 after disgraced Lutfur Rahman was removed from office.

The balance of power now swings from a 24-22 Labour majority to no overall control.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 56276.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stephen Bush in the NS yesterday claimed 7000 people had resigned their Labour membership over the party stance on Brexit.

How many more will join them

I wonder how he's got this number?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:29 am

yahyah wrote:Channel 4 [or was it Sky News ?] showed a vox pop from Stoke.
Two women expressed support for what Trump was doing. One linked Paul Nuttall to Trump [she said something like 'he knows him doesn't he ?] and sounded enthusiastic because of that.

This is genuinely scary. Only two people expressing those views but they won't be alone in the country and are ripe for picking by the far right.

Polls consistently show that Trump is highly unpopular here. The attempt by some elements of the right wing press to sanitise him will fail.

Please don't take "vox pops" as indicative of anything whatsoever.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:34 am

gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... blic-roads

Volvo seeks volunteers for self-driving car trial in UK
London testing of semi-autonomous vehicles on public roads is to be conducted in tandem with one in Gothenburg, Sweden
Anyone here know what the point of self-driving cars is? Can't see it myself.

Morning folks,
Autonomous cars would be programmed not to crash into each other or into other stuff, something that is beyond many human car operators. They would also be able to communicate with each other to help anticipate speed & direction changes, so they could drive faster at a much higher density and more constant speed. The humans would be left free to text and eat without squashing cyclists, driving on the wrong side of the road or tailgating each other.
Or something like that.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:38 am

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Via James O'Brien on Twitter. In his words: "Please read this. Starts with the origins of that 'Warning Signs of Fascism' poster and then, well, it gets even darker..."

Incidentally, here are a few quotes from Faragists on Emma Kennedy's timeline this morning:

I expect MP's to respect the decision. You using Jo Cox as a tool to attack someone [Farage, he of the bullet remark] is utterly deplorable. they are enemies. Several voted against their constituencies. It's not evil to call them enemies or traitors

wrong, mental health illness is what led to her tragic murder, attempting to politicise it is deplorable

agree the left always trying to make this terrible act to fit their agenda. THE MAN WAS A NUTCASE JUST LIKE THE PPL YOU SUPPORT FGM RAPE KILLING GAYS. Selective memory eh! DO NOT SPEW YOUR COMMI VIEWS TO ME. The person her committed this crime was mentally ill

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:44 am

gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... blic-roads

Volvo seeks volunteers for self-driving car trial in UK
London testing of semi-autonomous vehicles on public roads is to be conducted in tandem with one in Gothenburg, Sweden
Anyone here know what the point of self-driving cars is? Can't see it myself.

if you live in a City, you shouldn't have to own a car. There should be an app on your phone where a car can with you in moments and take you where you want to go.

Looking at my street there are hundreds of pieces of expensive metal currently sat there doing nothing. The efficiency. time and cost saving should be enormous.

Train travel should become quickly obsolete. It is the next big revolution.

Krugman is good on this.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:46 am

StephenDolan wrote:
pk1 wrote:
Labour lost its overall majority on a major London borough today as a councillor defected to the Liberal Democrats over Europe.

Tower Hamlets councillor Andrew Cregan revealed his decision exclusively to the Evening Standard and said Jeremy Corbyn’s decision to support the Government on triggering Article 50 had been the last straw.

It is a blow to John Biggs, the Labour executive mayor who won control of the strife-torn borough in 2015 after disgraced Lutfur Rahman was removed from office.

The balance of power now swings from a 24-22 Labour majority to no overall control.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 56276.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stephen Bush in the NS yesterday claimed 7000 people had resigned their Labour membership over the party stance on Brexit.

How many more will join them
I wonder how he's got this number?

Leaked no doubt but it doesn't matter. In terms of membership numbers, the big loss will come when Corbyn finally goes. There is no doubt that a radical movement has a deeper, if narrower, support.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:50 am

55DegreesNorth wrote:so they could drive faster at a much higher density and more constant speed.

Yes. Lovely.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:53 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
pk1 wrote: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 56276.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stephen Bush in the NS yesterday claimed 7000 people had resigned their Labour membership over the party stance on Brexit.

How many more will join them
I wonder how he's got this number?
Leaked no doubt but it doesn't matter. In terms of membership numbers, the big loss will come when Corbyn finally goes. There is no doubt that a radical movement has a deeper, if narrower, support.

Not necessarily, it depends on how that happens and what comes afterwards. To state the obvious.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:57 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: I wonder how he's got this number?
Leaked no doubt but it doesn't matter. In terms of membership numbers, the big loss will come when Corbyn finally goes. There is no doubt that a radical movement has a deeper, if narrower, support.
Not necessarily, it depends on how that happens and what comes afterwards. To state the obvious.

Well, it is of course possible that Corbyn is merely John the Baptist, and that waiting to come is a still greater figure who will deliver us.

At the moment, that looks a very remote possibility to me.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:59 am

Well yes, but as a certain poster likes to remind us you have got a fair amount of stuff wrong recently

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 11:59 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: I wonder how he's got this number?
Leaked no doubt but it doesn't matter. In terms of membership numbers, the big loss will come when Corbyn finally goes. There is no doubt that a radical movement has a deeper, if narrower, support.
Not necessarily, it depends on how that happens and what comes afterwards. To state the obvious.

That's your obvious. There's alternative obvious.

As an aside, I would've thought Fallon's indy ref 2 disaster would be a bigger news story than Diane Abbott not voting.