Thursday 2nd February 2017

[citizenJA]

http://newsthump.com/2017/02/02/parliam ... rect-foot/

Maybe an environmental tipping-point causing massive disaster occurs though part of the UK land mass is fortuitously kept separate from the European continent thereby keeping maybe a quarter of the current UK population at subsistence-level, dark age living. The bright side, heh.

Sounds more "dark ages" than "bright side" to me.

I am quite curious to see how the country reacts to any disruption to electricity supplies that we are likely to have, given the absence of any proper forward planning in our energy sector for some years now.

Apologies, I was writing sarcastically. It's a nightmare, 'Brexit'. The only possible good that'll come of it is in spite of it, not because of it.

[MsChin]

I just had an interesting, if disturbing 'conversation' with a usually reliable brexit/ukip/death penalty fan & his young apprentice.
views received were:

Corbyn is a **** & should be sacked, reason being that he's trying to defy democracy, because he told his MPs to block brexit yesterday.

Trump will probably be (& should) be shot.
Corbyn should also be shot (same reason as above)

More interesting, was the view that Farage is a ****.
I'm not entirely sure what's caused this realisation, but it's definitely a change.
Also there seemed to be some concept that the Government isn't handling brexit well & that the vote was to leave the eu, but a lot of other stuff has been tacked on.

I would suggest that their views have tempered slightly, but the the younger of the two began to get agitated complaining that Farage's wife is an immigrant & that Trump's wife is an illegal immigrant (or if not, looks like one), so maybe not.

The OH renewed their acquaintance with Facebook after a prolonged absence so we can keep up with family currently overseas. We'd guessed his work colleague was a Brexiter but we now know that the man is a rank Kipper who voted Brexit mainly to keep Muslims out of the UK. Oh ...

[AngryAsWell]

Waves at MsChin, nice to see you around.

[citizenJA]

Brexit is not the high point of democracy – it's the greatest fraud ever perpetrated in British politics
An irate local farmer told me he voted to leave as a protest against EU bureaucracy that delayed payments of his subsidies. He thought Defra was an EU department. He didn’t realise it was The Department for Rural Affairs and that the EU had fined our governmental department for its incompetent administration of subsidies

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't doubt that farmer does believe that erroneous information. Those endeavouring the worst possible choices for health and sustainable environments know how to get people believing what isn't true.

[StephenDolan]

To borrow a phrase, but John Mann is a copper bottomed shit.

[yahyah]

Waves at MsChin, nice to see you around.

seconded.

[AngryAsWell]

Why is Labour so shy about being pro-European?
Emma Brennan
If ever there was a time for the party to say what we truly believe in when it comes to Europe, it is now. That’s why I set up Labour Against Brexit

https://apps.facebook.com/klondikegame/ ... b_bmpos=_0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[NonOxCol]

Lord Carey's reaction pending:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MsChin]

Thanks for the welcome.

[NonOxCol]

Lord Carey's reaction pending:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's more...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[55DegreesNorth]

Afternoon folks,
@AngryAsWell (from last night)

I posted a link the other day to an article from - I think - Local Schools that basically said if your school is relying on inclusion then you & your teachers are failing.
(it was much better - and fuller - than my synopsis by the way)
If I has a better brain I'd re post it but.... ya know how it is... sigh

Guilty as charged:
1st school went into RI a few weeks ago
2nd school closed (To become Fresh Start)
3rd school still Good
4th school closed (became Free School, also closed)
5th school closed (the Fresh Start one from above)
6th school in special measures.
I feel it's in my interest to reveal that these all happened well after I had moved on, so I'm taking credit for staving off the inevitable. As for the 3rd, I mentored the current head when he was a probationer, so I'll take the kudos for that as well. Hell of a lot of teachers and kids been through a deal of shite, though.

[AngryAsWell]

Afternoon folks,
@AngryAsWell (from last night)

I posted a link the other day to an article from - I think - Local Schools that basically said if your school is relying on inclusion then you & your teachers are failing.
(it was much better - and fuller - than my synopsis by the way)
If I has a better brain I'd re post it but.... ya know how it is... sigh

Guilty as charged:
1st school went into RI a few weeks ago
2nd school closed (To become Fresh Start)
3rd school still Good
4th school closed (became Free School, also closed)
5th school closed (the Fresh Start one from above)
6th school in special measures.
I feel it's in my interest to reveal that these all happened well after I had moved on, so I'm taking credit for staving off the inevitable. As for the 3rd, I mentored the current head when he was a probationer, so I'll take the kudos for that as well. Hell of a lot of teachers and kids been through a deal of shite, though.

Did I charge you with anything? I think not...
The article I was referring to was about using rewards rather than ever increasing punishments (inclusions) to improve behaviour.
I never even mentioned you .... and have no idea what the schools you refer to have in the context of punishment v rewards ?
**at a loss here

[55DegreesNorth]

Afternoon folks,
@AngryAsWell (from last night)

I posted a link the other day to an article from - I think - Local Schools that basically said if your school is relying on inclusion then you & your teachers are failing.
(it was much better - and fuller - than my synopsis by the way)
If I has a better brain I'd re post it but.... ya know how it is... sigh

Guilty as charged:
1st school went into RI a few weeks ago
2nd school closed (To become Fresh Start)
3rd school still Good
4th school closed (became Free School, also closed)
5th school closed (the Fresh Start one from above)
6th school in special measures.
I feel it's in my interest to reveal that these all happened well after I had moved on, so I'm taking credit for staving off the inevitable. As for the 3rd, I mentored the current head when he was a probationer, so I'll take the kudos for that as well. Hell of a lot of teachers and kids been through a deal of shite, though.

Did I charge you with anything? I think not...
The article I was referring to was about using rewards rather than ever increasing punishments (inclusions) to improve behaviour.
I never even mentioned you .... and have no idea what the schools you refer to have in the context of punishment v rewards ?
**at a loss here

I light heartedly said that I would do Michaela Thingys DetentionMaster job, and pointed out that all the schools had an inclusion unit (or similar). Cue your reply (above), then mine.

[AngryAsWell]

Afternoon folks,
@AngryAsWell (from last night)
Guilty as charged:
1st school went into RI a few weeks ago
2nd school closed (To become Fresh Start)
3rd school still Good
4th school closed (became Free School, also closed)
5th school closed (the Fresh Start one from above)
6th school in special measures.
I feel it's in my interest to reveal that these all happened well after I had moved on, so I'm taking credit for staving off the inevitable. As for the 3rd, I mentored the current head when he was a probationer, so I'll take the kudos for that as well. Hell of a lot of teachers and kids been through a deal of shite, though.

Did I charge you with anything? I think not...
The article I was referring to was about using rewards rather than ever increasing punishments (inclusions) to improve behaviour.
I never even mentioned you .... and have no idea what the schools you refer to have in the context of punishment v rewards ?
**at a loss here

I light heartedly said that I would do Michaela Thingys DetentionMaster job, and pointed out that all the schools had an inclusion unit (or similar). Cue your reply (above), then mine.

Got you - sorry - misunderstood

[AngryAsWell]

The Government accidentally promised everyone 14 WEEKS of holiday in Brexit document
There's a chart in the Brexit white paper that makes it look like leaving the EU won't be all that bad after all

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/go ... 14-9745921" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lost Soul]

Not sure if this has been posted. Apologies if I've missed it.

Mrs May's full white paper here :

http://uk.businessinsider.com/governmen ... lan-2017-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SpinningHugo]

Aircraft are a nice example. Commercial aircraft haven't improved since the 70s very much. indeed, back then you could fly at supersonic speeds. You can't now.

Dear oh dear. You are doing a nice line in talking bullshit on things you know nothing about at the moment Hugo. I thought your NHS 'crisis, what crisis?' was a corker but this is gold. There have been massive improvements in commercial aviation design in the last few decades. The Airbus A380 burns about 75% less fuel per passenger than a Boeing 707. Boeing is testing eco-friendly tech in a string of NASA programmes. What do you think Airbus spends $2bn every year on R&D for? Cabin styling? There are advanced composite materials, aerodynamic drag reduction devices and surfaces, engine nacelle contouring, turbine blade design and material improvements etc etc - programmes that are providing continued improvements in fuel efficiency and cleanliness, and in the near future blended wing body designs etc that will move things on another order of magnitude. Oh, and two or three viable supersonic projects that will be many times more efficient than Concorde. I'd have thought 'you Greens' would be all over that.

Please don't try to pull the wool over people's eyes again. It will just make you look silly, for one thing.

Which is great of course.

but

1903 first powered flight

1914 first commercial passenger flights

1931 first non-stop Atlantic passenger flights

1969 Boeing 747 goes into service

Since 1969? Well yes, great that there has been such a saving on fuel efficiency since the 1950s 707s (they weren't as bothered about fuel back then, and that is a very old aircraft) but the improvements since the 747 are pretty small and incremental. Nothing like the huge step change technological breakthroughs of earlier generations.

Flying London to New York takes, what, 8 hours? About the same as in 1969, 48 years ago. 48 years before that, and the world of flight looks completely different. For a while when there was Concorde you could have done it in half the time.

I don't think you're talking 'bullshit' or trying to 'pull the wool over everyone's eyes' or 'know nothing about' this. I think you've got poor judgement.

[StephenDolan]

Well said Starmer.

'The white paper offers no certainty for EU citizens living in the UK, no additional detail on how workers’ and consumer rights will be protected, and nothing on how full tariff-free access to the single market will be delivered.

It’s a wish list, not an action plan.

Labour has said throughout that there needs to be accountability and scrutiny throughout the Brexit process.

Next week we will debate amendments to the article 50 bill that would achieve that - in particular by guaranteeing a meaningful vote that ensures our parliament votes on the article 50 deal before the European parliament does. The government should welcome that, not reject it.'

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Anyone else picking up on the exemption for the City, which apparently won't, essentially, leave the EU?

8.25 In our new strategic partnership agreement we will be aiming for the freest possible trade in financial services between the UK and EU Member States.
8.26 In highly integrated sectors such as financial services there will be a legitimate interest in mutual cooperation arrangements that recognise the interconnectedness of markets, as
so clearly demonstrated by the financial crisis. Since that time, the EU has taken a number of steps to strengthen collective oversight of the sector. As the UK leaves the EU, we will seek to establish strong cooperative oversight arrangements with the EU and will continue to support and implement international standards to continue to safely serve the UK, European and global economy.

[SpinningHugo]

Well said Starmer.

'The white paper offers no certainty for EU citizens living in the UK, no additional detail on how workers’ and consumer rights will be protected, and nothing on how full tariff-free access to the single market will be delivered.

It’s a wish list, not an action plan.

Labour has said throughout that there needs to be accountability and scrutiny throughout the Brexit process.

Next week we will debate amendments to the article 50 bill that would achieve that - in particular by guaranteeing a meaningful vote that ensures our parliament votes on the article 50 deal before the European parliament does. The government should welcome that, not reject it.'

And if we took any of his words remotely seriously, the logical conclusion would be to vote against if the amendments fail (as they all inevitably will).

The "amendments are important" defence only works while the amendments remain undefeated. if they really were, you'd vote against without them.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Anyone else picking up on the exemption for the City, which apparently won't, essentially, leave the EU?

8.25 In our new strategic partnership agreement we will be aiming for the freest possible trade in financial services between the UK and EU Member States.
8.26 In highly integrated sectors such as financial services there will be a legitimate interest in mutual cooperation arrangements that recognise the interconnectedness of markets, as so clearly demonstrated by the financial crisis. Since that time, the EU has taken a number of steps to strengthen collective oversight of the sector. As the UK leaves the EU, we will seek to establish strong cooperative oversight arrangements with the EU and will continue to support and implement international standards to continue to safely serve the UK, European and global economy.

And we thought Labour did it all on its own?

[PaulfromYorkshire]

The "amendments are important" defence only works which the amendments remain undefeated. if they really were, you'd vote against without them.

eh?

[citizenJA]

"A deal has been agreed between Southern rail and the Aslef union to end a dispute over driver-only trains, the TUC general secretary, Frances O’Grady, has announced.

Strikes planned for late January were suspended while Aslef started fresh talks to resolve the row over driver-only operated trains, which drivers said were potentially unsafe.

GTR, along with the Rail Safety and Standards Board, argued that driver-only operation (DOO) was common practice on much of the rail network, including on Southern’s sister service Thameslink. But unions have resisted any further extension of the practice. Aslef argues that railways have become more crowded, with longer trains and far more passengers, and the principle of one crew member on board is no longer safe. The union says its drivers cannot process the CCTV screens in the cab as safely as a conductor standing outside the train, before closing the doors."

- Southern rail and union agree deal to end strikes over driver-only trains

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... nly-trains" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I detest operating on the cheap, jeopardising lives and safety because some fool thinks money is the first and last highest good and it can be saved if only we get rid of all those pesky people.

Hundreds of passengers on-board the damn train and company executive muttering y'all paying passengers just f*****g figure something out, you know, if there's a situation or something, because there's only one staff member on-board and that's the driver, remember to clean the train before you get to leave it...because you can't leave the train until that's done.

[citizenJA]

Not sure if this has been posted. Apologies if I've missed it.

Mrs May's full white paper here :

http://uk.businessinsider.com/governmen ... lan-2017-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think this is the document itself below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... EU_Web.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tubby Isaacs]

Anyone else picking up on the exemption for the City, which apparently won't, essentially, leave the EU?

8.25 In our new strategic partnership agreement we will be aiming for the freest possible trade in financial services between the UK and EU Member States.
8.26 In highly integrated sectors such as financial services there will be a legitimate interest in mutual cooperation arrangements that recognise the interconnectedness of markets, as
so clearly demonstrated by the financial crisis. Since that time, the EU has taken a number of steps to strengthen collective oversight of the sector. As the UK leaves the EU, we will seek to establish strong cooperative oversight arrangements with the EU and will continue to support and implement international standards to continue to safely serve the UK, European and global economy.

Sounds like Ron Hopeful.

The EU can eat away at the City with changes it doesn't like, and which a British PM can't seek to block.

But the EU will be careful. The City does tons of business with them, and they won't want that disrupted too sharply.

[PorFavor]

The white paper on Brexit: a wish list disguised as a strategy

The vagueness of the white paper is little more than a list of aims, with no detail on what happens if they’re not met (Guardian)

Well, it was exactly what most of us expected, though.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... a-strategy



Edited - tidy up

[NonOxCol]

The last time stamp has been left on the bottom of every page in the white paper.

It says 02/02/2017 04:17

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... s-children" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Pressure mounts on François Fillon as jobs inquiry widens to include children
French rightwing candidate under fire as it emerges the children he employed ‘for legal expertise’ were not qualified lawyers

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ary-virgin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Nun receives death threats for suggesting Mary was not a virgin

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ts-funding" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Revenge porn helpline 'to close' as government cuts funding
Labour MP Sarah Champion asks equalities minister how victims will have access to support if only helpline shuts in March

[PorFavor]

The joy of the time difference between us and Washington DC is that, since I often go to bed early, there's always something to look forward to when I get up in the morning . . .


(I'm not going to bed just yet, though.)


Edited - tidy up

[PaulfromYorkshire]

The White Paper is a complete embarrassment.

Honestly there's hardly a clause that bears scrutiny.

Roll on next week

[yahyah]

This was from yesterday.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The White Paper is apparently appallingly bad.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Just a thought. Maybe we could run through the 12 sections one a day and have a discussion about them? Just in case anyone thinks it's a good idea, I'll post Section 1 below.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Providing legal certainty
1.1 To provide legal certainty over our exit from the EU, we will introduce the Great Repeal Bill to remove the European Communities Act 1972 from the statute book and convert the ‘acquis’ – the body of existing EU law – into domestic law. This means that, wherever practical and appropriate, the same rules and laws will apply on the day after we leave the EU as they did before.
1.2 This approach will preserve the rights and obligations that already exist in the UK under EU law and provide a secure basis for future changes to our domestic law. This allows businesses to continue trading in the knowledge that the rules will not change significantly overnight and provides fairness to individuals whose rights and obligations will not be subject to sudden change. It will also be important for business in both the UK and the EU to have as much certainty as possible as early as possible.
1.3 Once we have left the EU, Parliament (and, where appropriate, the devolved legislatures) will then be able to decide which elements of that law to keep, amend or repeal.
1.4 We will bring forward a White Paper on the Great Repeal Bill that provides more detail about our approach.
1.5 Domestic legislation will also need to reflect the content of the agreement we intend to negotiate with the EU.

The Great Repeal Bill
The Great Repeal Bill was announced to Parliament on 10 October 2016. The Bill has three primary elements:
• First, it will repeal the European Communities Act 1972, and in so doing, return power to UK politicians and institutions.
• Second, the Bill will preserve EU law where it stands at the moment before we leave the EU. Parliament (and, where appropriate, the devolved legislatures) will then be able to decide which elements of that law to keep, amend or repeal once we have left the EU. The UK courts will then apply those decisions of Parliament and the devolved legislatures.
• Finally, the Bill will enable changes to be made by secondary legislation to the laws that would otherwise not function sensibly once we have left the EU, so that our legal system continues to function correctly outside the EU.
The Government’s general approach to preserving EU law is to ensure that all EU laws which are directly applicable in the UK (such as EU regulations) and all laws which have been made in the UK, in order to implement our obligations as a member of the EU, remain part of domestic law on the day we leave the EU.
In general the Government also believes that the preserved law should continue to be interpreted in the same way as it is at the moment. This approach is in order to ensure a coherent approach which provides continuity. It will be open to Parliament in the future to keep or change these laws.
Public and parliamentary involvement and scrutiny

1.6 We will continue to build a national consensus around our negotiating position by listening and talking to as many organisations, companies and institutions as possible. Government ministers have led widespread engagement with their sectors and ministers
from the Department for Exiting the EU alone have held around 150 stakeholder engagement events, covering all sectors of the economy. The majority have been outside London and right across the UK, including Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England. This has helped inform Government understanding of the key issues for business and other stakeholders ahead of the negotiations. This engagement will continue throughout the period before we leave.
1.7 The devolved administrations will continue to be engaged through the Joint Ministerial Committee (JMC), chaired in plenary by the Prime Minister and attended by the First Ministers of Scotland and Wales and the First and deputy First Ministers of Northern Ireland, and the JMC sub-committee on EU Negotiations (JMC(EN)), chaired by the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, with members from each of the UK devolved administrations.
1.8 Parliament also has a critical role. First, legislation will be needed to give effect to our withdrawal from the EU and the content of such legislation will of course be determined by Parliament. This includes the Great Repeal Bill, but any significant policy changes will be underpinned by other primary legislation – allowing Parliament the opportunity to debate and scrutinise the changes. For example, we expect to bring forward separate bills on
immigration and customs. There will also be a programme of secondary legislation under the Great Repeal Bill to address deficiencies in the preserved law, which will be subject to parliamentary oversight.
1.9 Both Houses, the House of Commons Select Committee on Exiting the EU and other select committees will help to scrutinise and inform the decisions made. Since September, and in addition to debates that have been scheduled by opposition parties or the Backbench Business Committee, and debates in the House of Lords, the Government has provided for four debates in the House of Commons in Government time on the impact of EU exit on a variety of sectors, such as:
• workers’ rights;
• transport policy;
• science and research; and
• security, law enforcement and criminal justice.
That programme of debates will continue.
1.10 The Government has made five Oral Statements to Parliament on the subject of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU and answered over 500 Parliamentary Questions. Ministers from the Department for Exiting the EU have also appeared 12 times in front of select committees, and those committees have undertaken, or are currently undertaking, 36 inquiries on EU exit-related issues. Government ministers will continue to provide regular updates to Parliament and the Government will continue to ensure that there is ample opportunity for both Houses to debate the key issues arising from EU exit.
1.11 To enable the Government to achieve the best outcome in the negotiations, we will need to keep our positions closely held and will need at times to be careful about the commentary we make public. Our fundamental responsibility to the people of the UK is to ensure that we secure the very best deal possible from the negotiations. We will, however, ensure that the UK Parliament receives at least as much information as that received by members of the European Parliament.
1.12 The Government will then put the final deal that is agreed between the UK and the EU to a vote in both Houses of Parliament.
Funding commitments
1.13 We recognise the importance to business of having certainty about funding arrangements over the coming years. We have already acted quickly to give clarity about farm payments, competitive grants, including science and research funding, and structural and investment funds.

Funding commitments already made by this Government
All European Structural and Investment Funds (ESIFs) projects signed, or with funding agreements that were in place before the Autumn Statement 2016, will be fully funded, even when these projects continue beyond the UK’s departure from the EU. This includes agri-environment schemes under the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP).
For projects signed after the Autumn Statement 2016 and which continue after we have left the EU, HM Treasury will honour funding for projects if they provide strong value for money and are in line with domestic strategic priorities.
For bids made directly to the Commission by UK organisations (including for Horizon 2020, the EU’s research and innovation programme and in funds for health and education), institutions, universities and businesses should continue to bid for funding. We will work with the Commission to ensure payment when funds are awarded. HM Treasury will underwrite the payment of such awards, even when specific projects continue beyond the UK’s departure from the EU.
HM Treasury has also provided a guarantee to the agricultural sector that it will receive the same level of funding that it would have received under Pillar 1 of CAP until the end of the Multiannual Financial Framework in 2020.
In the case of the devolved administrations, we are offering the same level of reassurance as we are offering to UK government departments in relation to programmes they administer, but for which they expected to rely on EU funding.
The Government will consult closely with stakeholders to review all EU funding schemes in the round, to ensure any ongoing funding commitments best serve the UK’s national interests.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Thanks, Paul.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Strikingly this means that even once we leave (if we do) there will be endless tussles over striking out or adapting aspects of EU law. So the day after we Brexit, bananas will still have to be straight and in carefully quantified bunch numbers (yes I know this isn't true) and changes to that will have to go through Parliament.

[NonOxCol]

White paper (as quoted on previous page) refers to the country coming together after a divisive referendum.

Two paras later:

"The victors have a responsibility to be magnanimous. The losers have a responsibility to respect the result."

No, she really does use the words "victors" and "losers".

[Tubby Isaacs]

US lifting some sanctions from Russia. Two leaders who openly want to destroy the EU. Britain going along with it.

[PorFavor]

Trump defends chaotic foreign policy: 'We're going to straighten it out, OK?' (Guardian)

As have we with the banana.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -breakfast

[yahyah]

Not hard to imagine you dressed like Carmen Miranda and singing that PF.

[citizenJA]

Anyone else picking up on the exemption for the City, which apparently won't, essentially, leave the EU?

8.25 In our new strategic partnership agreement we will be aiming for the freest possible trade in financial services between the UK and EU Member States.
8.26 In highly integrated sectors such as financial services there will be a legitimate interest in mutual cooperation arrangements that recognise the interconnectedness of markets, as
so clearly demonstrated by the financial crisis. Since that time, the EU has taken a number of steps to strengthen collective oversight of the sector. As the UK leaves the EU, we will seek to establish strong cooperative oversight arrangements with the EU and will continue to support and implement international standards to continue to safely serve the UK, European and global economy.

Sounds like Ron Hopeful.

The EU can eat away at the City with changes it doesn't like, and which a British PM can't seek to block.

But the EU will be careful. The City does tons of business with them, and they won't want that disrupted too sharply.

Tory government will have more control over people who don't have fortunes, connections, estates and homes. No freedom of movement like we're used to. People won't get to live and learn in other EU countries. It'll be too expensive, too difficult to secure employment, education, visas. Young people from regular families won't get to experience the decades of successful freedom of movement the UK has enjoyed with other EU nations.

Those UK/EU citizens who've enjoyed the benefits of freedom of movement within the EU are going to have their lives turned upside down. Families are already making the decision to give up one country or others, if they've got that option, because of Tory government's EU referendum.

[PorFavor]

@PaulfromYorkshire

We've both got bananas on the brain, apparently!

[yahyah]

Here's a cheering story from my local paper.

A group in Aberystwyth has raised enough money to resettle a Syrian refugee family to the area.

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/article. ... hyear=2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[citizenJA]

White paper (as quoted on previous page) refers to the country coming together after a divisive referendum.

Two paras later:

"The victors have a responsibility to be magnanimous. The losers have a responsibility to respect the result."

No, she really does use the words "victors" and "losers".

(cJA bold)

She's attempting to placate, cajole those who don't yet know how much they're going to lose. She'll be happy to know her words have hurt me. I've not only had to accept Ed Miliband's Labour government defeated by the most worthless Tory leadership returned instead, she's used victors and losers describing those voting either Leave and Remain in the EU. Leavers who don't know what they're going to lose, she'll tell you later you decided to do this to yourselves. A lot of hope, hate and anxiety went into the vote. It's intolerable accepting it's been a con. Psychologically speaking, she's helping to ensure Tory government won't be blamed. I hope T May lives to regret her mistakes and works to correct them all.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Well said Starmer.

'The white paper offers no certainty for EU citizens living in the UK, no additional detail on how workers’ and consumer rights will be protected, and nothing on how full tariff-free access to the single market will be delivered.

It’s a wish list, not an action plan.

Labour has said throughout that there needs to be accountability and scrutiny throughout the Brexit process.

Next week we will debate amendments to the article 50 bill that would achieve that - in particular by guaranteeing a meaningful vote that ensures our parliament votes on the article 50 deal before the European parliament does. The government should welcome that, not reject it.'

Does anyone think amendments are going to get anywhere?

I'd laugh (well nearly, and very sardonically) if the Government just said "you're trying to thwart Brexit, the people have spoken". Because that's what Labour said to MPs who opposed last night.

I think there's too much momentum for something abstract like an amendment to get traction. What does it mean if the Tories accept something like "Best possible access to the Single Market" anyway?

[gilsey]

What the white paper says about border with Ireland

The white paper restates the government’s desire to keep an open border with Ireland. But it does not give a firm commitment on this. Note the word “aim” in paragraph 4.4.

We recognise that for the people of Northern Ireland and Ireland, the ability to move freely across the border is an essential part of daily life. When the UK leaves the EU we aim to have as seamless and frictionless a border as possible between Northern Ireland and Ireland, so that we can continue to see the trade and everyday movements we have seen up to now. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Yesterday's blog

Theresa May’s declaration that she wants a “seamless, frictionless border” post Brexit in Ireland amounted to meaningless “nice words”, the government has been told.

The Northern Ireland affairs select committee has been told by two customs lawyers with decades of experience of border controls that the continuing free movement of goods is legally impossible if the UK quits the Customs Union in a hard Brexit.

Retired customs trade lawyer Michael Lux, who worked for the German ministry of finance, has said Theresa May can do what she likes once the UK leaves the European Union but that Ireland Taoiseach Enda Kenny will have to apply EU law with no choice but to have customs checks on the border. He said:

If Northern Ireland is no longer part of the customs union, Ireland is obliged to apply all these rules, what is done on the UK side if it’s outside the EU they can do what they want.

His two hours of evidence drew audible gasps from MPs as he told how every vehicle carrying goods worth more than €300 crossing from Ireland into Northern Ireland would have to be stopped, even if only “for a few minutes” and checked.

Every driver would have to have an “export declaration” document before travel which would have to be cross-checked by a human being at a border check.

“It is important to understand, it isn’t just about customs, it is also about VAT and excise on alcohol and cigarettes,” he said.

Dux, who has 40 years experience in customs trade law, told how dogs taken for a walk from south of the border would need documentation as would horses being ridden for pleasure on the border region. This is currently the case on the German/Swiss border, he said.

His comments do not bode well for May and Kenny who have warned that a return to the checkpoints of the past could imperil the fragile peace in the region.
Asked by Lady Hermon what he thought of Theresa May’s comments this week in Dublin when she said she wanted a “seamless, frictionless border”, Dux replied: “Well these are nice words but what does that mean?”

Even if the export declaration paperwork was electronic, a customs official would still be required to check the reference number for the freight and declare the “export movement closed” he said.

Lux told how cross-border customs charges and possible tariffs could be the death-knell for cross-border dairy production.

Medium-sized businesses might need two people to do the administration, or they could use an agent which would charge typically between €50 and €80 per consignment for an export declaration number, explained Lux.

Even if shrewd businesses got the cost of the export declaration document down to €20, the cost of continually moving milk and milk products back and forth would be prohibitive, Lux said.

Asked if Northern Ireland could get a “waiver” from the EU because of the special conditions pertaining to the island, lawyer Eric Pickett, an expert in World Trade Organisation rules and international trade law, said this was legally impossible.

“It would be a strict violation of WTO law,” he said.

Particularly liked the 'audible gasps from MPs', aren't they supposed to know more about this stuff than we do?

[PorFavor]

White paper (as quoted on previous page) refers to the country coming together after a divisive referendum.

Two paras later:

"The victors have a responsibility to be magnanimous. The losers have a responsibility to respect the result."

No, she really does use the words "victors" and "losers".

(cJA bold)

She's attempting to placate, cajole those who don't yet know how much they're going to lose.

Big Yellow Brexit

[citizenJA]

The last time stamp has been left on the bottom of every page in the white paper.

It says 02/02/2017 04:17

Thank you!

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