Tuesday 7th February 2017

[yahyah]

Happy birthday PK. Hope you have a lovely day. X

[SpinningHugo]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oft-brexit

If you think Corbyn’s wrong on Labour’s Brexit policy, voters say otherwise
Anthony Wells

Which is of course fine. Any party is free to adopt any position on any issue it likes.

but for those of us that care about brexit, and value that above party loyalty, that will be a major factor in determining how we vote.

Electorally, i don't think Labour had a good choice, and that isn't Corbyn's fault.

It did have a good choice in terms of what is actually right.

but it chose not to go down that path.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

What in Britain (apart from the weather) is not ultimately dependent upon the economy?

Sure there may be some racism here, but also the period of greater EU integration has coincided with a significant increase in inequality in the UK. So, many people won't really feel the EU has helped them even if they can acknowledge in the abstract that the economy has benefited.

They might want to take a walk around their neighbourhood, town, city and see how many EU flag stickers there are on all manner of infrastructure.

I know. Don't get me wrong.

But somehow the country needs to understand why the Brexit vote happened and my instincts are that insufficient benefits of EU membership have flowed to ordinary people relative to the wealthy.

[gilsey]

??????

I think other polls have shown that the economy is not leavers first priority, if it was they probably wouldn't be leavers.
Britain is not only it's economy.

What in Britain (apart from the weather) is not ultimately dependent upon the economy?

I'm not saying I agree with them, I think they think they're better off without the furriners.

Even outside the EU, imo a govt with the country's best interests at heart could make the economy work for most. We haven't had one of those for a while, and I don't see any prospect of getting one, as willow said earlier.

there's quite a bit of creative thinking going on that enables people to convince themselves that what they want, which is tax cuts etc for themselves, is actually in the best interests of the country.

[HindleA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ing-market" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Fixing our broken housing market

Housing White Paper

[gilsey]

A country with 60-70m population and its own currency doesn't have to be dependent on 'the kindness of strangers' as Mark Carney put it.

[yahyah]

http://labourlist.org/2017/02/voters-ex ... poll-says/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HindleA]

https://www.bma.org.uk/collective-voice ... gotiations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


GP contract 2017

[pk1]

Happy birthday PK. Hope you have a lovely day. X

With this little beauty sharing our home, it can't fail to be a lovely day

[Willow904]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oft-brexit

If you think Corbyn’s wrong on Labour’s Brexit policy, voters say otherwise
Anthony Wells

For now, however, Labour’s current position of accepting Brexit but pushing for single-market membership afterwards appears to be the one likely to win the widest (if not the most enthusiastic) support.

Although I broadly agree with this being Labour's best stance, I'm not aware it's their current position. With the leadership highlighting things like state aid rules and those on the right of the party getting behind immigration curbs, there is no apparent support for seeking single market membership within Labour that I can detect. That's why I'm losing faith.

[HindleA]

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8887" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


IFS
Incapacity and disability benefit policy

[yahyah]

Nice to see something to smile about PK. What a little smasher she is.

[SpinningHugo]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oft-brexit

If you think Corbyn’s wrong on Labour’s Brexit policy, voters say otherwise
Anthony Wells

For now, however, Labour’s current position of accepting Brexit but pushing for single-market membership afterwards appears to be the one likely to win the widest (if not the most enthusiastic) support.

Although I broadly agree with this being Labour's best stance, I'm not aware it's their current position. With the leadership highlighting things like state aid rules and those on the right of the party getting behind immigration curbs, there is no apparent support for seeking single market membership within Labour that I can detect. That's why I'm losing faith.

The obvious confusion of MEMBERSHIP (which Labour doesn't seek) and (meaningless) ACCESS is pretty damning of that analysis.

[pk1]

Nice to see something to smile about PK. What a little smasher she is.

Thank you. She is such a good baby - she's been sleeping through the night from 6 weeks ! Had to warn son & g/f that the next one may be completely different

[citizenJA]

Happy birthday, pk1!
Many, many healthy, happy returns of the day
love,
cJA

[citizenJA]

Good-afternoon, everyone.

[HindleA]

IFS on apprenticeships



https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8885" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HindleA]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-38882189" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Liverpool social care may not exist in 2019, resigning boss warns

[HindleA]

Govt blocked legislation on houses being fit for habitation,just some context to rhetoric.

[SpinningHugo]

"• Maintaining existing strong protections for
the Green Belt, and clarifying that Green
Belt boundaries should be amended only in
exceptional circumstances when local authorities
can demonstrate that they have fully examined
all other reasonable options for meeting their
identified housing requirements; "

That means they won't do anything.

Housing is crying out for a 'third way' solution.

That means

1. Deregulation. Some of this greenbelt, espcially around London is now counterproductive for its original purpose. it was supposed to stop urban sprawl. All that is happening is the sprawl is coming outside the belt (which is very un-green). Restrictions on height in London need to be lifted too.

2. Infrastructure investment. Spend big money on what the state does well: roads, sanitation, drainage etc.

[HindleA]

Error.

[AngryAsWell]

Happy birthday PK. Hope you have a lovely day. X

Happy Birthday from me as well PK - absolutely beautiful baby!

Yahya - how you doing after your fall? Feeling any better? (fingers crossed)

[StephenDolan]

'Javid is responding to Healey.

He accuses Healey of paying cheap party politics. He could do that, he says. He could say house building dropped to its lowest levels when Healey was housing minister.'

So Javid labels what he himself says in response as cheap party politics.

[HindleA]

Gave wrong information on Surrey,apparently.

[HindleA]

Consultation on Housing White Paper

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/QLLWWSS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[nickyinnorfolk]

Happy birthday pk1!

[nickyinnorfolk]

'Javid is responding to Healey.

He accuses Healey of paying cheap party politics. He could do that, he says. He could say house building dropped to its lowest levels when Healey was housing minister.'

So Javid labels what he himself says in response as cheap party politics.

Javid is a seriously nasty piece of work even by Tory standards.

Bet there's some skeletons in the cupboard regarding his time at Deutsche Bank ...

[RogerOThornhill]

'Javid is responding to Healey.

He accuses Healey of paying cheap party politics. He could do that, he says. He could say house building dropped to its lowest levels when Healey was housing minister.'

So Javid labels what he himself says in response as cheap party politics.

That was between June 2009 and May 2010.

I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure there was something going on around that which would have made housebuilding collapse. Wonder what it was?

[RogerOThornhill]

https://twitter.com/CloveHitched/status ... 1225617409

[SpinningHugo]

A retired Tory MPs son writes.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/ther ... -have-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HindleA]

http://www.local.gov.uk/web/guest/media ... 22583/NEWS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Councils respond to Housing White Paper
Responding to the publication of the Government's Housing White Paper, Cllr Martin Tett, Housing spokesman at the Local Government Association, said:

[AnatolyKasparov]

The problem is, too many "moderates" - both in the media and, yes, the Labour party - think that "opposition" means agreeing with the Tories on everything of substance.

All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.

Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.

[StephenDolan]

All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.

Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.

You could've written that about the Democrats across the pond.

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



‘The government must unlock the money. Because the care crisis is now’
Chronic underfunding means that even basic needs for the most vulnerable are not being met, says shadow social care minister Barbara Keeley

[SpinningHugo]

The problem is, too many "moderates" - both in the media and, yes, the Labour party - think that "opposition" means agreeing with the Tories on everything of substance.

All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.

Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.

The problem is that there is a difference between things that are in Labour's control and those that are not.

Who is leader is within its control. The split over the EU isn't.

I'd agree that Labour can't now overcome the fundamental structural problems it faces, but it has chosen to make those considerably worse, not better.

[Lost Soul]

A retired Tory MPs son writes.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/ther ... -have-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

from the article :

Look, I’m not blind. Brexit is happening, and it is happening hard. None of the above is going to make Labour or the Lib Dems win an election, because the problems of both are structural and generational and huge. But what it may do is give them all a point to being alive. Plus, damn it, this is simply what an opposition is supposed to do. This is not a strong government. Peek behind the bravado and you will see that it is secretly terrified, both of its own right-wing backbenchers and of others, unelected, further right still. That’s not scrutiny, however. That’s something else. A proper opposition is one that faces you down, rather than chasing you to run further and faster. Both Corbyn and Farron need to get it together. Or for heaven’s sake, go.

Yes !

[SpinningHugo]

Martin Wolf on Brexit

https://www.ft.com/content/6e3aeb4a-ec6 ... %2Fproduct" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wolf is the best there is.

[SpinningHugo]

A retired Tory MPs son writes.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/ther ... -have-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

from the article :

Look, I’m not blind. Brexit is happening, and it is happening hard. None of the above is going to make Labour or the Lib Dems win an election, because the problems of both are structural and generational and huge. But what it may do is give them all a point to being alive. Plus, damn it, this is simply what an opposition is supposed to do. This is not a strong government. Peek behind the bravado and you will see that it is secretly terrified, both of its own right-wing backbenchers and of others, unelected, further right still. That’s not scrutiny, however. That’s something else. A proper opposition is one that faces you down, rather than chasing you to run further and faster. Both Corbyn and Farron need to get it together. Or for heaven’s sake, go.

Yes !

it is a good piece. Almost the entire political class is letting the UK down.

[Willow904]

Sir Keir Starmer is still speaking. He says it would be helpful if the government were to put its offer in writing.

(But he is in some difficulty, because Jones’s offer has to a large extent replicated what Labour is asking for in NC1

.

If Jones's offer is the same as what Labour is asking for in NC1, then the government should be happy to instruct its MPs to vote for NC1 and put the question beyond doubt. Hilarious that Ken Clarke is warning Starmer not to take his Tory colleague at his word. Though it's really about whether the Tory rebels are satisfied. If they are, they are easily pleased, if they don't push to have the parliament vote on the Brexit deal enshrined in the article 50 bill May could easily wriggle out of it.

[SpinningHugo]

Sir Keir Starmer is still speaking. He says it would be helpful if the government were to put its offer in writing.

(But he is in some difficulty, because Jones’s offer has to a large extent replicated what Labour is asking for in NC1

.

If Jones's offer is the same as what Labour is asking for in NC1, then the government should be happy to instruct its MPs to vote for NC1 and put the question beyond doubt. Hilarious that Ken Clarke is warning Starmer not to take his Tory colleague at his word. Though it's really about whether the Tory rebels are satisfied. If they are, they are easily pleased, if they don't push to have the parliament vote on the Brexit deal enshrined in the article 50 bill May could easily wriggle out of it.

it has been clarified. The government is offering what it has always offered. A vote on the final deal. if rejected, we fall back on to WTO.

[RogerOThornhill]

norman smith Verified account
‏@BBCNormanS

Govt minister David Jones confirm if no Brexit deal then UK will fall back on WTO rules

But...but...I thought these trade deals were going to be easy peasy!

[Tubby Isaacs]

All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.

Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.

You could've written that about the Democrats across the pond.

The Democrats problem is not having a base so they do badly in mid terms, states. For President they have won 6 out of 7 popular votes. That's much better than Labour.

[Willow904]

Sir Keir Starmer is still speaking. He says it would be helpful if the government were to put its offer in writing.

(But he is in some difficulty, because Jones’s offer has to a large extent replicated what Labour is asking for in NC1

.

If Jones's offer is the same as what Labour is asking for in NC1, then the government should be happy to instruct its MPs to vote for NC1 and put the question beyond doubt. Hilarious that Ken Clarke is warning Starmer not to take his Tory colleague at his word. Though it's really about whether the Tory rebels are satisfied. If they are, they are easily pleased, if they don't push to have the parliament vote on the Brexit deal enshrined in the article 50 bill May could easily wriggle out of it.

it has been clarified. The government is offering what it has always offered. A vote on the final deal. if rejected, we fall back on to WTO.

Oh ffs. Time wasters.

Jones confirms Commons vote on the Brexit deal will be on a ‘take it or leave it’ basis.
(Jones has probably just undermined the significance of what he was offering 20 minutes ago.)

Andrew Sparrow wins award for understatement of the day.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??

Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.

[StephenDolan]

Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??

Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.

She hasn't been forced to do anything. She's shown strong leadership whilst listening to her MP and addressing their concerns. Nothing to do with Starmer, no no.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The problem is, too many "moderates" - both in the media and, yes, the Labour party - think that "opposition" means agreeing with the Tories on everything of substance.

All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.

Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.

I think add in a competently sold investment programme to Ed and they'd be in a decent position.

[Tubby Isaacs]

norman smith Verified account
‏@BBCNormanS

Govt minister David Jones confirm if no Brexit deal then UK will fall back on WTO rules

But...but...I thought these trade deals were going to be easy peasy!

Isnt that his (deluded) point- no need for interim?

[Willow904]

Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??

Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.

There is no concession. The vote being offered is the same as before. Take it or no deal at all:

Jones says he has already answered that. The vote will be either to accept the deal. Or there will be no deal. That is the most meaningful vote you can imagine.

I'm pretty certain this isn't the "meaningful vote" Starmer has asked for. It's still just a rubber stamp.

[AngryAsWell]

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 37m37 minutes ago
Brexit minister David Jones says final Brexit deal means UK "will fall back on other arrangements" ie WTO. If he means it, we're screwed.

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 36m36 minutes ago
Screwed like Black Wednesday screwed.

[AngryAsWell]

Liz Kendall ‏@leicesterliz 3m3 minutes ago

No serious concession from Govt on A50: no vote if no deal, accept their deal or fall back on WTO rules. Neither gives Parliament real say