Tuesday 7th February 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Happy birthday PK. Hope you have a lovely day. X
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
RobertSnozers wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oft-brexit
If you think Corbyn’s wrong on Labour’s Brexit policy, voters say otherwise
Anthony Wells
Which is of course fine. Any party is free to adopt any position on any issue it likes.
but for those of us that care about brexit, and value that above party loyalty, that will be a major factor in determining how we vote.
Electorally, i don't think Labour had a good choice, and that isn't Corbyn's fault.
It did have a good choice in terms of what is actually right.
but it chose not to go down that path.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
I know. Don't get me wrong.StephenDolan wrote:They might want to take a walk around their neighbourhood, town, city and see how many EU flag stickers there are on all manner of infrastructure.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Sure there may be some racism here, but also the period of greater EU integration has coincided with a significant increase in inequality in the UK. So, many people won't really feel the EU has helped them even if they can acknowledge in the abstract that the economy has benefited.PorFavor wrote:
What in Britain (apart from the weather) is not ultimately dependent upon the economy?
But somehow the country needs to understand why the Brexit vote happened and my instincts are that insufficient benefits of EU membership have flowed to ordinary people relative to the wealthy.
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
I'm not saying I agree with them, I think they think they're better off without the furriners.PorFavor wrote:gilsey wrote:I think other polls have shown that the economy is not leavers first priority, if it was they probably wouldn't be leavers.PorFavor wrote: ??????
Britain is not only it's economy.
What in Britain (apart from the weather) is not ultimately dependent upon the economy?
Even outside the EU, imo a govt with the country's best interests at heart could make the economy work for most. We haven't had one of those for a while, and I don't see any prospect of getting one, as willow said earlier.
there's quite a bit of creative thinking going on that enables people to convince themselves that what they want, which is tax cuts etc for themselves, is actually in the best interests of the country.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ing-market" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fixing our broken housing market
Housing White Paper
Fixing our broken housing market
Housing White Paper
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
A country with 60-70m population and its own currency doesn't have to be dependent on 'the kindness of strangers' as Mark Carney put it.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
http://labourlist.org/2017/02/voters-ex ... poll-says/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
https://www.bma.org.uk/collective-voice ... gotiations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
GP contract 2017
GP contract 2017
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
With this little beauty sharing our home, it can't fail to be a lovely dayyahyah wrote:Happy birthday PK. Hope you have a lovely day. X
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
RobertSnozers wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oft-brexit
If you think Corbyn’s wrong on Labour’s Brexit policy, voters say otherwise
Anthony Wells
Although I broadly agree with this being Labour's best stance, I'm not aware it's their current position. With the leadership highlighting things like state aid rules and those on the right of the party getting behind immigration curbs, there is no apparent support for seeking single market membership within Labour that I can detect. That's why I'm losing faith.For now, however, Labour’s current position of accepting Brexit but pushing for single-market membership afterwards appears to be the one likely to win the widest (if not the most enthusiastic) support.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8887" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
IFS
Incapacity and disability benefit policy
IFS
Incapacity and disability benefit policy
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Nice to see something to smile about PK. What a little smasher she is.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Willow904 wrote:RobertSnozers wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oft-brexit
If you think Corbyn’s wrong on Labour’s Brexit policy, voters say otherwise
Anthony WellsAlthough I broadly agree with this being Labour's best stance, I'm not aware it's their current position. With the leadership highlighting things like state aid rules and those on the right of the party getting behind immigration curbs, there is no apparent support for seeking single market membership within Labour that I can detect. That's why I'm losing faith.For now, however, Labour’s current position of accepting Brexit but pushing for single-market membership afterwards appears to be the one likely to win the widest (if not the most enthusiastic) support.
The obvious confusion of MEMBERSHIP (which Labour doesn't seek) and (meaningless) ACCESS is pretty damning of that analysis.
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Thank you. She is such a good baby - she's been sleeping through the night from 6 weeks ! Had to warn son & g/f that the next one may be completely differentyahyah wrote:Nice to see something to smile about PK. What a little smasher she is.
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Happy birthday, pk1!
Many, many healthy, happy returns of the day
love,
cJA
Many, many healthy, happy returns of the day
love,
cJA
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Good-afternoon, everyone.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
IFS on apprenticeships
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8885" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8885" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-38882189" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Liverpool social care may not exist in 2019, resigning boss warns
Liverpool social care may not exist in 2019, resigning boss warns
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Govt blocked legislation on houses being fit for habitation,just some context to rhetoric.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
"• Maintaining existing strong protections for
the Green Belt, and clarifying that Green
Belt boundaries should be amended only in
exceptional circumstances when local authorities
can demonstrate that they have fully examined
all other reasonable options for meeting their
identified housing requirements; "
That means they won't do anything.
Housing is crying out for a 'third way' solution.
That means
1. Deregulation. Some of this greenbelt, espcially around London is now counterproductive for its original purpose. it was supposed to stop urban sprawl. All that is happening is the sprawl is coming outside the belt (which is very un-green). Restrictions on height in London need to be lifted too.
2. Infrastructure investment. Spend big money on what the state does well: roads, sanitation, drainage etc.
the Green Belt, and clarifying that Green
Belt boundaries should be amended only in
exceptional circumstances when local authorities
can demonstrate that they have fully examined
all other reasonable options for meeting their
identified housing requirements; "
That means they won't do anything.
Housing is crying out for a 'third way' solution.
That means
1. Deregulation. Some of this greenbelt, espcially around London is now counterproductive for its original purpose. it was supposed to stop urban sprawl. All that is happening is the sprawl is coming outside the belt (which is very un-green). Restrictions on height in London need to be lifted too.
2. Infrastructure investment. Spend big money on what the state does well: roads, sanitation, drainage etc.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Error.
Last edited by HindleA on Tue 07 Feb, 2017 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Happy Birthday from me as well PK - absolutely beautiful baby!yahyah wrote:Happy birthday PK. Hope you have a lovely day. X
Yahya - how you doing after your fall? Feeling any better? (fingers crossed)
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
'Javid is responding to Healey.
He accuses Healey of paying cheap party politics. He could do that, he says. He could say house building dropped to its lowest levels when Healey was housing minister.'
So Javid labels what he himself says in response as cheap party politics.
He accuses Healey of paying cheap party politics. He could do that, he says. He could say house building dropped to its lowest levels when Healey was housing minister.'
So Javid labels what he himself says in response as cheap party politics.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Gave wrong information on Surrey,apparently.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Consultation on Housing White Paper
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/QLLWWSS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/QLLWWSS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Happy birthday pk1!
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Javid is a seriously nasty piece of work even by Tory standards.StephenDolan wrote:'Javid is responding to Healey.
He accuses Healey of paying cheap party politics. He could do that, he says. He could say house building dropped to its lowest levels when Healey was housing minister.'
So Javid labels what he himself says in response as cheap party politics.
Bet there's some skeletons in the cupboard regarding his time at Deutsche Bank ...
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
That was between June 2009 and May 2010.StephenDolan wrote:'Javid is responding to Healey.
He accuses Healey of paying cheap party politics. He could do that, he says. He could say house building dropped to its lowest levels when Healey was housing minister.'
So Javid labels what he himself says in response as cheap party politics.
I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure there was something going on around that which would have made housebuilding collapse. Wonder what it was?
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
A retired Tory MPs son writes.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/ther ... -have-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/ther ... -have-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
http://www.local.gov.uk/web/guest/media ... 22583/NEWS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Councils respond to Housing White Paper
Responding to the publication of the Government's Housing White Paper, Cllr Martin Tett, Housing spokesman at the Local Government Association, said:
Councils respond to Housing White Paper
Responding to the publication of the Government's Housing White Paper, Cllr Martin Tett, Housing spokesman at the Local Government Association, said:
Last edited by HindleA on Tue 07 Feb, 2017 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
The problem is, too many "moderates" - both in the media and, yes, the Labour party - think that "opposition" means agreeing with the Tories on everything of substance.
All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.
Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.
All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.
Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
You could've written that about the Democrats across the pond.AnatolyKasparov wrote:All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.
Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
‘The government must unlock the money. Because the care crisis is now’
Chronic underfunding means that even basic needs for the most vulnerable are not being met, says shadow social care minister Barbara Keeley
‘The government must unlock the money. Because the care crisis is now’
Chronic underfunding means that even basic needs for the most vulnerable are not being met, says shadow social care minister Barbara Keeley
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
AnatolyKasparov wrote:The problem is, too many "moderates" - both in the media and, yes, the Labour party - think that "opposition" means agreeing with the Tories on everything of substance.
All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.
Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.
The problem is that there is a difference between things that are in Labour's control and those that are not.
Who is leader is within its control. The split over the EU isn't.
I'd agree that Labour can't now overcome the fundamental structural problems it faces, but it has chosen to make those considerably worse, not better.
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
SpinningHugo wrote:A retired Tory MPs son writes.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/ther ... -have-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
from the article :
Look, I’m not blind. Brexit is happening, and it is happening hard. None of the above is going to make Labour or the Lib Dems win an election, because the problems of both are structural and generational and huge. But what it may do is give them all a point to being alive. Plus, damn it, this is simply what an opposition is supposed to do. This is not a strong government. Peek behind the bravado and you will see that it is secretly terrified, both of its own right-wing backbenchers and of others, unelected, further right still. That’s not scrutiny, however. That’s something else. A proper opposition is one that faces you down, rather than chasing you to run further and faster. Both Corbyn and Farron need to get it together. Or for heaven’s sake, go.
Yes !
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Martin Wolf on Brexit
https://www.ft.com/content/6e3aeb4a-ec6 ... %2Fproduct" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wolf is the best there is.
https://www.ft.com/content/6e3aeb4a-ec6 ... %2Fproduct" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wolf is the best there is.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Lost Soul wrote:SpinningHugo wrote:A retired Tory MPs son writes.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/02/ther ... -have-one/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
from the article :
Look, I’m not blind. Brexit is happening, and it is happening hard. None of the above is going to make Labour or the Lib Dems win an election, because the problems of both are structural and generational and huge. But what it may do is give them all a point to being alive. Plus, damn it, this is simply what an opposition is supposed to do. This is not a strong government. Peek behind the bravado and you will see that it is secretly terrified, both of its own right-wing backbenchers and of others, unelected, further right still. That’s not scrutiny, however. That’s something else. A proper opposition is one that faces you down, rather than chasing you to run further and faster. Both Corbyn and Farron need to get it together. Or for heaven’s sake, go.
Yes !
it is a good piece. Almost the entire political class is letting the UK down.
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
.Sir Keir Starmer is still speaking. He says it would be helpful if the government were to put its offer in writing.
(But he is in some difficulty, because Jones’s offer has to a large extent replicated what Labour is asking for in NC1
If Jones's offer is the same as what Labour is asking for in NC1, then the government should be happy to instruct its MPs to vote for NC1 and put the question beyond doubt. Hilarious that Ken Clarke is warning Starmer not to take his Tory colleague at his word. Though it's really about whether the Tory rebels are satisfied. If they are, they are easily pleased, if they don't push to have the parliament vote on the Brexit deal enshrined in the article 50 bill May could easily wriggle out of it.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Willow904 wrote:.Sir Keir Starmer is still speaking. He says it would be helpful if the government were to put its offer in writing.
(But he is in some difficulty, because Jones’s offer has to a large extent replicated what Labour is asking for in NC1
If Jones's offer is the same as what Labour is asking for in NC1, then the government should be happy to instruct its MPs to vote for NC1 and put the question beyond doubt. Hilarious that Ken Clarke is warning Starmer not to take his Tory colleague at his word. Though it's really about whether the Tory rebels are satisfied. If they are, they are easily pleased, if they don't push to have the parliament vote on the Brexit deal enshrined in the article 50 bill May could easily wriggle out of it.
it has been clarified. The government is offering what it has always offered. A vote on the final deal. if rejected, we fall back on to WTO.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
But...but...I thought these trade deals were going to be easy peasy!norman smith Verified account
@BBCNormanS
Govt minister David Jones confirm if no Brexit deal then UK will fall back on WTO rules
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
The Democrats problem is not having a base so they do badly in mid terms, states. For President they have won 6 out of 7 popular votes. That's much better than Labour.StephenDolan wrote:You could've written that about the Democrats across the pond.AnatolyKasparov wrote:All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.
Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
SpinningHugo wrote:Willow904 wrote:.Sir Keir Starmer is still speaking. He says it would be helpful if the government were to put its offer in writing.
(But he is in some difficulty, because Jones’s offer has to a large extent replicated what Labour is asking for in NC1
If Jones's offer is the same as what Labour is asking for in NC1, then the government should be happy to instruct its MPs to vote for NC1 and put the question beyond doubt. Hilarious that Ken Clarke is warning Starmer not to take his Tory colleague at his word. Though it's really about whether the Tory rebels are satisfied. If they are, they are easily pleased, if they don't push to have the parliament vote on the Brexit deal enshrined in the article 50 bill May could easily wriggle out of it.
it has been clarified. The government is offering what it has always offered. A vote on the final deal. if rejected, we fall back on to WTO.
Oh ffs. Time wasters.
Andrew Sparrow wins award for understatement of the day.Jones confirms Commons vote on the Brexit deal will be on a ‘take it or leave it’ basis.
(Jones has probably just undermined the significance of what he was offering 20 minutes ago.)
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??
Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.
Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
She hasn't been forced to do anything. She's shown strong leadership whilst listening to her MP and addressing their concerns. Nothing to do with Starmer, no no.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??
Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
I think add in a competently sold investment programme to Ed and they'd be in a decent position.AnatolyKasparov wrote:The problem is, too many "moderates" - both in the media and, yes, the Labour party - think that "opposition" means agreeing with the Tories on everything of substance.
All we need is a marginally different set of "managers" and all will be well. Truth is, something actually different is required.
Corbyn is not the answer, that much is obvious now. But that does not alter this fundamental reality.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Isnt that his (deluded) point- no need for interim?RogerOThornhill wrote:But...but...I thought these trade deals were going to be easy peasy!norman smith Verified account
@BBCNormanS
Govt minister David Jones confirm if no Brexit deal then UK will fall back on WTO rules
Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
There is no concession. The vote being offered is the same as before. Take it or no deal at all:AnatolyKasparov wrote:Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??
Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.
I'm pretty certain this isn't the "meaningful vote" Starmer has asked for. It's still just a rubber stamp.Jones says he has already answered that. The vote will be either to accept the deal. Or there will be no deal. That is the most meaningful vote you can imagine.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Ian Dunt @IanDunt 37m37 minutes ago
Brexit minister David Jones says final Brexit deal means UK "will fall back on other arrangements" ie WTO. If he means it, we're screwed.
Ian Dunt @IanDunt 36m36 minutes ago
Screwed like Black Wednesday screwed.
Brexit minister David Jones says final Brexit deal means UK "will fall back on other arrangements" ie WTO. If he means it, we're screwed.
Ian Dunt @IanDunt 36m36 minutes ago
Screwed like Black Wednesday screwed.
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Re: Tuesday 7th February 2017
Liz Kendall @leicesterliz 3m3 minutes ago
No serious concession from Govt on A50: no vote if no deal, accept their deal or fall back on WTO rules. Neither gives Parliament real say
No serious concession from Govt on A50: no vote if no deal, accept their deal or fall back on WTO rules. Neither gives Parliament real say