Tuesday 7th February 2017

[citizenJA]

I'm not a soldier, I've never had to live in a war zone, I've never heard a declaration of war from any government filling me with fear for my own personal safety or the safety of my family. I've heard leaders declare war on nations far from where I lived. I was sick with dread for people I didn't know. I don't like war, ever. I don't support wars. Violence is failure, it's destruction and nothing more.

Equating the fear I feel over the 'Brexit' proceedings is not comparable to the fear I'd likely feel hearing declarations of war.
The short and long-term economic, social and political damage to most people and the country from 'Brexit' will be dreadful. It's dreadful now.
D Trump is a bad thing, a terrible US President and I fear his work. However, the US probably has sufficient systems in place to mitigate his damage and he'll be voted or impeached out.
Good god, I'm frightened for the UK.

[NonOxCol]

Liz Kendall ‏@leicesterliz 3m3 minutes ago

No serious concession from Govt on A50: no vote if no deal, accept their deal or fall back on WTO rules. Neither gives Parliament real say

Dunt said on Friday that he didn't honestly believe the nightmare scenario outlined in Chapter One of his book was even possible...

...until last Wednesday.

His timeline over the last half hour or so is quite something.

[citizenJA]

Consultation on Housing White Paper

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/QLLWWSS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is surveymonkey a sufficiently robust consultation device? Is it conjunction with other consultation mechanisms, I hope? I was too dispirited to do the survey now.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??

Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.

There is no concession. The vote being offered is the same as before. Take it or no deal at all

Yes, I know.

My point is, if all sides push further on this they *might* get something? The government wobbled for a minute there, they face trouble on this in the HoL.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??

Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.

She's got exactly what she wants. The narrative established that scrutiny is "blocking Brexit" and the appearance of having been accommodating by publishing a joke White Paper.

I can't see anything positive.

[Willow904]

Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??

Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.

There is no concession. The vote being offered is the same as before. Take it or no deal at all

Yes, I know.

My point is, if all sides push further on this they *might* get something? The government wobbled for a minute there, they face trouble on this in the HoL.

How do they "push" without threatening to vote against? Corbyn has already instated a three line whip for the bill on third reading, hasn't he? Tory rebels can only "push" with confidence if they know for certain the entire opposition are voting against, I would have thought.

[AnatolyKasparov]

That narrative is "established" where, exactly?

This ties in with some of my recent posts, though - it is easier to push such a line when SOME on the remain side (and vocal elements, too) seem to think reversing/ignoring the referendum result would be both possible and desirable. If instead all "the 48%" (and, indeed, a few of the 52%) had united around "NO HARD BREXIT" from the start.......

[yahyah]

Happy birthday PK. Hope you have a lovely day. X

Happy Birthday from me as well PK - absolutely beautiful baby!

Yahya - how you doing after your fall? Feeling any better? (fingers crossed)

Yes thanks. No lasting damage thankfully.
Spent the afternoon gardening, have cleared masses and all the little bulbs are looking cheerful.

What have I missed ?

[Tubby Isaacs]

I take the House of Lords point. But May could just ping it back. Unelected Lib Dem peers etc.

[Tubby Isaacs]

That narrative is "established" where, exactly?

This ties in with some of my recent posts, though - it is easier to push such a line when SOME on the remain side (and vocal elements, too) seem to think reversing/ignoring the referendum result would be both possible and desirable. If instead all "the 48%" (and, indeed, a few of the 52%) had united around "NO HARD BREXIT" from the start.......

With the public. The case against Brexit being whatever May says has barely been made.

[Willow904]

Happy birthday PK. Hope you have a lovely day. X

Happy Birthday from me as well PK - absolutely beautiful baby!

Yahya - how you doing after your fall? Feeling any better? (fingers crossed)

Yes thanks. No lasting damage thankfully.
Spent the afternoon gardening, have cleared masses and all the little bulbs are looking cheerful.

What have I missed ?

A possibly meaningless "meaningful vote" has been conceded by the government. It's being claimed as a victory by the opposition, being described as not all it seems by the Mirror and is bringing Ian Dunt to frustrated despair on Twitter.

Opinion as to whether it means anything is divided on FTN.

[SpinningHugo]

That narrative is "established" where, exactly?

This ties in with some of my recent posts, though - it is easier to push such a line when SOME on the remain side (and vocal elements, too) seem to think reversing/ignoring the referendum result would be both possible and desirable. If instead all "the 48%" (and, indeed, a few of the 52%) had united around "NO HARD BREXIT" from the start.......

Absolutely.

And the primary responsibility for the failure to present any opposition to this whatsoever lies with....

[Tubby Isaacs]

That narrative is "established" where, exactly?

This ties in with some of my recent posts, though - it is easier to push such a line when SOME on the remain side (and vocal elements, too) seem to think reversing/ignoring the referendum result would be both possible and desirable. If instead all "the 48%" (and, indeed, a few of the 52%) had united around "NO HARD BREXIT" from the start.......

From November would have been fine, when the red lines were drafted by Jez.

[SpinningHugo]

Isn't this still rather significant, though? It indicates that the government may be willing to make another major concession if pushed??

Though the media have little interest in pursuing it, May has already been forced to do quite a few things that she did not want to do.

She hasn't been forced to do anything. She's shown strong leadership whilst listening to her MP and addressing their concerns. Nothing to do with Starmer, no no.

it isn't anything whatsoever to do with Starmer, no.

Poor sod looks a fool. He has a difficult brief admittedly, but the initial dewy eyed enthusiasm for him has now disappeared.

[AnatolyKasparov]

This state of affairs, SH, is the responsibility of......

Those in Labour who planned then staged a leadership coup literally within minutes of the referendum result being announced, rather than holding a stunned government to account?

Just a thought.

[SpinningHugo]

That narrative is "established" where, exactly?

This ties in with some of my recent posts, though - it is easier to push such a line when SOME on the remain side (and vocal elements, too) seem to think reversing/ignoring the referendum result would be both possible and desirable. If instead all "the 48%" (and, indeed, a few of the 52%) had united around "NO HARD BREXIT" from the start.......

From November would have been fine, when the red lines were drafted by Jez.

the November position was probably drafted by Starmer. Subsequently ditched by McDonnell.

[SpinningHugo]

Those in Labour who planned then staged a leadership coup literally within minutes of the referendum result being announced, rather than holding a stunned government to account?

No. try again, as they failed and are not "leading" the opposition.

How exactly the Evil Plotters in the PLP are to blame for how badly the leadership is performing now is a mystery. Did they undermine JC's confidence so that he is unable to think straight about the single market? Did they make him forget about his November Red Lines?

[adam]

Consultation on Housing White Paper

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/QLLWWSS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is surveymonkey a sufficiently robust consultation device? Is it conjunction with other consultation mechanisms, I hope? I was too dispirited to do the survey now.

It's an online freebie that my sixth form students use to do mini bits of market research on their production projects. There's nothing wrong with it for what it is but it's a very big surprise to see the government using it. I have no wish to defame them, but as a free open online application I would doubt that its security is as robust as you would expect a government project to be.

[Tubby Isaacs]

This state of affairs, SH, is the responsibility of......

Those in Labour who planned then staged a leadership coup literally within minutes of the referendum result being announced, rather than holding a stunned government to account?

Just a thought.

Hang on. So Corbyn would have done something but was distracted till September. He then did not much else till November when he drafted red lines (including an absurd one one about subsidies that would get us kicked out of the Single Market). This goes nowhere and he then announces a 3 line whip for whatever May says?

[yahyah]

That narrative is "established" where, exactly?

This ties in with some of my recent posts, though - it is easier to push such a line when SOME on the remain side (and vocal elements, too) seem to think reversing/ignoring the referendum result would be both possible and desirable. If instead all "the 48%" (and, indeed, a few of the 52%) had united around "NO HARD BREXIT" from the start.......

.

How about if the leader of the Labour party had called for and strongly campaigned for a second public vote, not a rerun of the first referendum although some like to portray it that way, if hard Brexit was the outcome ?

By refusing to countenance that we are stuffed. Don't blame 'SOME' 48%ers for the mess we're in.

[SpinningHugo]

This state of affairs, SH, is the responsibility of......

Those in Labour who planned then staged a leadership coup literally within minutes of the referendum result being announced, rather than holding a stunned government to account?

Just a thought.

Hang on. So Corbyn would have done something but was distracted till September. He then did not much else till November when he drafted red lines (including an absurd one one about subsidies that would get us kicked out of the Single Market). This goes nowhere and he then announces a 3 line whip for whatever May says?

This was the fault of the evil plotting PLP (eg Ed Miliband) do keep up.

Loyalty. Above all else, including reason, be loyal.

[HindleA]

CJA and others-link gives other ways to reply to consultatiion.

[AngryAsWell]

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 19m19 minutes ago
For record, I think the 'deal' May puts to MPs will be divorce settlement plus side of A4 with aspirations about future trade arrangements

[Tubby Isaacs]

I agree with Ian. This is why I wanted Labour as far away as possible from this Brexit.

[HindleA]

Parody eats itself and comes out the other side.

[citizenJA]

I take the House of Lords point. But May could just ping it back. Unelected Lib Dem peers etc.

Bill containing something taking the UK out of the single market? The Bill containing something not in the Tory manifesto? Can the Lords stop it then?

[citizenJA]

CJA and others-link gives other ways to reply to consultatiion.

Thank you

[yahyah]

Caroline Lucas, two hours ago. ''If Labour think this is a concession worth celebrating they are living on another planet''.

[HindleA]

Colin Wiles on Housing White Paper




http://www.24housing.co.uk/opinion/not-a-shooting-star/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[yahyah]

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[citizenJA]

Consultation on Housing White Paper

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/QLLWWSS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is surveymonkey a sufficiently robust consultation device? Is it conjunction with other consultation mechanisms, I hope? I was too dispirited to do the survey now.

It's an online freebie that my sixth form students use to do mini bits of market research on their production projects. There's nothing wrong with it for what it is but it's a very big surprise to see the government using it. I have no wish to defame them, but as a free open online application I would doubt that its security is as robust as you would expect a government project to be.

Apologies to surveymonkey, I didn't intend to impugn their reputation, I've participated in surveys with their platform, they're fabulous. Agree with you entirely about government consultation require more secure methods.

[PorFavor]

Universal credit flaws pushing claimants towards debt and eviction – warning

Guardian investigation reveals recipients falling into rent arrears because of payment delays and forced to turn to food banks (Guardian)

As if we didn't already know this. But, anyway, the more it gets aired, the better.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... on-warning

[AngryAsWell]

The year of the price hike: Half of British firms expect to charge more as weak pound hits - and restaurant meals could soar in 2017

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news ... z4Y1JS9Xbx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

This. From. The. Mail

[HindleA]

Cja-DWP ones usually result in do the exact opposite/ignore overwhelming opinion.Recent overturning in one aspect of DCLG one.It just gives me extra bounce on jumping up and down at being ignored if I have given them something to ignore.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Caroline Lucas, two hours ago. ''If Labour think this is a concession worth celebrating they are living on another planet''.

And do they?

Or is this just a cheap substance-free jibe from Lucas??

Bear in mind it was the BBC who first announced this as a major concession, not anybody from HM Opposition.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I take the House of Lords point. But May could just ping it back. Unelected Lib Dem peers etc.

Bill containing something taking the UK out of the single market? The Bill containing something not in the Tory manifesto? Can the Lords stop it then?

Excellent point. Could be worth watching.

[citizenJA]

[Anna Soubry] says she voted for article 50 last week because she said she would accept the result of the referendum.
But it worries her that she did not vote in the best interests of her constituents.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... c85909dea9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They'll have the consolation of knowing you're brave enough to admit you're worried

[AnatolyKasparov]

[Anna Soubry] says she voted for article 50 last week because she said she would accept the result of the referendum.
But it worries her that she did not vote in the best interests of her constituents.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... c85909dea9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They'll have the consolation of knowing you're brave enough to admit you're worried

This lionising of Soubry from certain "liberals" is even more pathetic than usual given that she has not voted against the government at any point in the Brexit process (and doesn't appear likely to) Instead she pathetically mewls that she "trusts Theresa"

I mean, she gave a decent speech - whoopy do. You know what, even Corbyn has managed that on occasion.

[citizenJA]

Cja-DWP ones usually result in do the exact opposite/ignore overwhelming opinion.Recent overturning in one aspect of DCLG one.It just gives me extra bounce on jumping up and down at being ignored if I have given them something to ignore.

Good, good, whatever works

[Tubby Isaacs]

I think any position would be politically problematic. It's just that the sort of Kippery Labour voter is likely to hate Corby already for being beardy etc. And they're dying off anyway. It's not just an elite v heartland thing. I gave the example before of St Helens. 42% Remain. Adjust for Labour and under 60 and I reckon there's a lot of Remain there.

[yahyah]

Caroline Lucas, two hours ago. ''If Labour think this is a concession worth celebrating they are living on another planet''.

And do they?

Or is this just a cheap substance-free jibe from Lucas??

Bear in mind it was the BBC who first announced this as a major concession, not anybody from HM Opposition.

Starmer's press statement calls it 'a significant victory'.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Caroline Lucas, two hours ago. ''If Labour think this is a concession worth celebrating they are living on another planet''.

And do they?

Or is this just a cheap substance-free jibe from Lucas??

Bear in mind it was the BBC who first announced this as a major concession, not anybody from HM Opposition.

Starmer's press statement calls it 'a significant victory'.

That may have been before it was "clarified"?

[citizenJA]

[Anna Soubry] says she voted for article 50 last week because she said she would accept the result of the referendum.
But it worries her that she did not vote in the best interests of her constituents.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... c85909dea9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They'll have the consolation of knowing you're brave enough to admit you're worried

This lionising of Soubry from certain "liberals" is even more pathetic than usual given that she has not voted against the government at any point in the Brexit process (and doesn't appear likely to) Instead she pathetically mewls that she "trusts Theresa"

I mean, she gave a decent speech - whoopy do. You know what, even Corbyn has managed that on occasion.

Well, exactly.
'...it worries me I didn't vote in the best interests of my constituents...'
The only Tory I can tolerate is Bercow
And that's likely only because of his role
Tory policy, their legislation and leadership is systematically, fundamentally wrong

[Tubby Isaacs]

[Anna Soubry] says she voted for article 50 last week because she said she would accept the result of the referendum.
But it worries her that she did not vote in the best interests of her constituents.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... c85909dea9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They'll have the consolation of knowing you're brave enough to admit you're worried

This lionising of Soubry from certain "liberals" is even more pathetic than usual given that she has not voted against the government at any point in the Brexit process (and doesn't appear likely to) Instead she pathetically mewls that she "trusts Theresa"

I mean, she gave a decent speech - whoopy do. You know what, even Corbyn has managed that on occasion.

There's a lot of that. But equally you try and use opponents' dissenters as well as you can. It's quite a thing for her to say, and she''s likely to keep saying it. Same with Grieve, though his focus is more on legal issues.

[RogerOThornhill]

And...there goes another one.

Schools Week ‏@SchoolsWeek 2m2 minutes ago

BREAKING: Greater Manchester University Technical College is to close at the end of August this year, its trustees announce. Story to follow

Never mind free schools, UTCs are the real policy disaster.

[citizenJA]

I think any position would be politically problematic. It's just that the sort of Kippery Labour voter is likely to hate Corby already for being beardy etc. And they're dying off anyway. It's not just an elite v heartland thing. I gave the example before of St Helens. 42% Remain. Adjust for Labour and under 60 and I reckon there's a lot of Remain there.

It's a bad thing, 'Brexit', not good for people and country
If Labour leadership figures they can Remain voters for granted, they're making a catastrophic mistake

[citizenJA]

And...there goes another one.

Schools Week ‏@SchoolsWeek 2m2 minutes ago

BREAKING: Greater Manchester University Technical College is to close at the end of August this year, its trustees announce. Story to follow

Never mind free schools, UTCs are the real policy disaster.

Oh, no!

[yahyah]

Clarified ? Well no one's told Eoin Clarke. He's literally just tweeted the statement and thinks it is is an 'important victory'.

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... egin-yemen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Judicial review aiming to stop UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia to begin

[AnatolyKasparov]

Clarified ? Well no one's told Eoin Clarke. He's literally just tweeted the statement and thinks it is is an 'important victory'.

Clarke is (unlike Starmer) a prat. No disagreement here