Wednesday 8th February 2017

[HindleA]

I didn't say "it" exemption clause.

[HindleA]

PTO

Late again

[HindleA]

Or exceedingly early.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Not content with gushing puff pieces on Farron and the LibDems - the Graun now how has one, incredibly, with Nuttall.

Just how low can it sink in its anti-Corbyn/Labour obsessions?

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Ooh a bit of a jibe from the Sparrow at Polly Toynbee

Polly Toynbee may admire David Hodge (see 1.18pm) but the Conservative MP Sir Nicholas Soames is less impressed.

[HindleA]

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/2017-02 ... it-system/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


People are dying as a result of benefits system failings

[SpinningHugo]

The idea that Tories would always win elections without Scotland is a myth.

And if Labour really is shut out there for the forseeable, they are going to have to win more support in England/Wales anyway.

Once upon a time, maybe.

Now, post-Corbyn?

No.

Post-Corbyn, anything is possible.

No, sadly. That is the problem. The damage to the brand is too serious, for many many years to come, even if we discount the transformation of the membership.

[StephenDolan]

Glad to hear that John Mann has been on radio 5 live after PMQs. Can you guess what he wanted to talk about?

Yes, Diane Abbott.

[yahyah]

Is she ill again ?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Once upon a time, maybe.

Now, post-Corbyn?

No.

Post-Corbyn, anything is possible.

No, sadly. That is the problem. The damage to the brand is too serious, for many many years to come, even if we discount the transformation of the membership.

No, that is you transferring your personal obsessions onto the electorate as a whole.

(a not uncommon trait for ideologues of all stripes)

[HindleA]

Debbie Abrahams thinks a tweet of mine is worth a retweet(on presumption it is her,pretty sure it is)Achievements don't get better than this.


Fraud by the way,although having pissed off to let others deal with the carnage of UC appeared before the DWP select Committee,either not recognising the evidence presented or bemoaning the very characteristics of UC he was responsible for.

[StephenDolan]

Is she ill again ?

I do not give a fig. The focus for a Labour MP should be what Starmer said yesterday which, I'm guessing Mann approves of, and Surrey. Anything else is a helpful to the government distraction.

[SpinningHugo]

Post-Corbyn, anything is possible.

No, sadly. That is the problem. The damage to the brand is too serious, for many many years to come, even if we discount the transformation of the membership.

No, that is you transferring your personal obsessions onto the electorate as a whole.

(a not uncommon trait for ideologues of all stripes)

Why would you think the brand is not damaged long term? Once Labour has elected someone of Corbyn's stripe, the Tories will always hold out the prospect of the party bringing him or his equivalent baclk. It took years and years of dull centerism for Kinnock, Smith and Blair to repair labour's image. Why would a quick fix be available this time, when the crisis is so much worse? Why is history a poor guide this time?

And that is before we get to the transformation of the base. If/when McDonnell's rule change gets through, we'll be lumbered with Corbyn mini-mes forever.

[SpinningHugo]

FWIIW I think this is good on the budget

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com ... ening.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PorFavor]

Ooh a bit of a jibe from the Sparrow at Polly Toynbee

Polly Toynbee may admire David Hodge (see 1.18pm) but the Conservative MP Sir Nicholas Soames is less impressed.

And here's what Nicholas Soames "Tweeted" -

Nicholas Soames (@nsoamesmp)

Absolute corker by Leader of Surrey CC what a bozo
February 8, 2017

(Politics Live, Guardian)

Can't help but agree with him.

[StephenDolan]

No, sadly. That is the problem. The damage to the brand is too serious, for many many years to come, even if we discount the transformation of the membership.

No, that is you transferring your personal obsessions onto the electorate as a whole.

(a not uncommon trait for ideologues of all stripes)

Why would you think the brand is not damaged long term? Once Labour has elected someone of Corbyn's stripe, the Tories will always hold out the prospect of the party bringing him or his equivalent baclk. It took years and years of dull centerism for Kinnock, Smith and Blair to repair labour's image. Why would a quick fix be available this time, when the crisis is so much worse? Why is history a poor guide this time?

And that is before we get to the transformation of the base. If/when McDonnell's rule change gets through, we'll be lumbered with Corbyn mini-mes forever.

Ian Duncan Smith.
Michael Howard.

[SpinningHugo]

No, that is you transferring your personal obsessions onto the electorate as a whole.

(a not uncommon trait for ideologues of all stripes)

Why would you think the brand is not damaged long term? Once Labour has elected someone of Corbyn's stripe, the Tories will always hold out the prospect of the party bringing him or his equivalent baclk. It took years and years of dull centerism for Kinnock, Smith and Blair to repair labour's image. Why would a quick fix be available this time, when the crisis is so much worse? Why is history a poor guide this time?

And that is before we get to the transformation of the base. If/when McDonnell's rule change gets through, we'll be lumbered with Corbyn mini-mes forever.

Ian Duncan Smith.
Michael Howard.

Exactly.I agree.

Once the party had plumped for an extremist like IDS it took them years and years to recover, and only got back in because of the biggest economic shock in a generation. Why would anyone think that for Labour the recovery once Corbyn goes will be quick and easy? If it happens at all, which I don't think it now can, it will be long, slow and painful

[HindleA]

Soap powder salesman?

[HindleA]

http://www.24housing.co.uk/opinion/buil ... -campaign/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Builders pop champagne – the rest of us campaign

The de-regulation of the planning system in England benefited one group: volume housebuilders. It has not benefited people for whom affordable homes need to be built, nor has the environment benefited. Today’s White Paper under-scored just how much this is true.

[HindleA]

http://www.cbsnews.com/live/video/sen-u ... ate-floor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Tom Udall reads CS King letter on Senate floor

[AnatolyKasparov]

Actually the IDS thing proves my point if anything.

Tory recovery started almost as soon as he was ditched - a gain of over 30 seats at the GE a few years later wouldn't be sniffed at by Labour in 2020 as things stand.

[Temulkar]

No, sadly. That is the problem. The damage to the brand is too serious, for many many years to come, even if we discount the transformation of the membership.

No, that is you transferring your personal obsessions onto the electorate as a whole.

(a not uncommon trait for ideologues of all stripes)

Why would you think the brand is not damaged long term? Once Labour has elected someone of Corbyn's stripe, the Tories will always hold out the prospect of the party bringing him or his equivalent baclk. It took years and years of dull centerism for Kinnock, Smith and Blair to repair labour's image. Why would a quick fix be available this time, when the crisis is so much worse? Why is history a poor guide this time?

And that is before we get to the transformation of the base. If/when McDonnell's rule change gets through, we'll be lumbered with Corbyn mini-mes forever.

Actually it took the implosion of the SDP, you know the right wing cunts who would rather have thatcher in power than a socialist, so they fucked over the party, the movement, and the country. The same attitude that the people on the right of labour are doing now, except this bunch don't even have the moral courage to split, instead they will destroy labour rather than let a socialist win. They are and always have been Whigs. .

Kinnock was a two election losing joke, Smith a might have been, and Blair is a war criminial who introduced privatisation into education and health, and gave the tories the opportunity to destroy both.

An election is coming before 2020 and everyone is going to face a choice, vote corbyn or let the tories back in.

[citizenJA]

http://www.24housing.co.uk/opinion/buil ... -campaign/

Builders pop champagne – the rest of us campaign

The de-regulation of the planning system in England benefited one group: volume housebuilders. It has not benefited people for whom affordable homes need to be built, nor has the environment benefited. Today’s White Paper under-scored just how much this is true.

This and the social care article reporting Tory government's years of local authority budget slashing making it fiscally insupportable
paying workers for their labour is too much to ask,
sorry no, you'll work for free,
I feel a mighty seethe coming on.

[SpinningHugo]

No, that is you transferring your personal obsessions onto the electorate as a whole.

(a not uncommon trait for ideologues of all stripes)

Why would you think the brand is not damaged long term? Once Labour has elected someone of Corbyn's stripe, the Tories will always hold out the prospect of the party bringing him or his equivalent baclk. It took years and years of dull centerism for Kinnock, Smith and Blair to repair labour's image. Why would a quick fix be available this time, when the crisis is so much worse? Why is history a poor guide this time?

And that is before we get to the transformation of the base. If/when McDonnell's rule change gets through, we'll be lumbered with Corbyn mini-mes forever.

Actually it took the implosion of the SDP, you know the right wing cunts who would rather have thatcher in power than a socialist, so they fucked over the party, the movement, and the country. The same attitude that the people on the right of labour are doing now, except this bunch don't even have the moral courage to split, instead they will destroy labour rather than let a socialist win. They are and always have been Whigs. .

Kinnock was a two election losing joke, Smith a might have been, and Blair is a war criminial who introduced privatisation into education and health, and gave the tories the opportunity to destroy both.

An election is coming before 2020 and everyone is going to face a choice, vote corbyn or let the tories back in.

I thought you voted Green? Splitter.

[Willow904]

No, that is you transferring your personal obsessions onto the electorate as a whole.

(a not uncommon trait for ideologues of all stripes)

Why would you think the brand is not damaged long term? Once Labour has elected someone of Corbyn's stripe, the Tories will always hold out the prospect of the party bringing him or his equivalent baclk. It took years and years of dull centerism for Kinnock, Smith and Blair to repair labour's image. Why would a quick fix be available this time, when the crisis is so much worse? Why is history a poor guide this time?

And that is before we get to the transformation of the base. If/when McDonnell's rule change gets through, we'll be lumbered with Corbyn mini-mes forever.

Actually it took the implosion of the SDP, you know the right wing cunts who would rather have thatcher in power than a socialist, so they fucked over the party, the movement, and the country. The same attitude that the people on the right of labour are doing now, except this bunch don't even have the moral courage to split, instead they will destroy labour rather than let a socialist win. They are and always have been Whigs. .

Kinnock was a two election losing joke, Smith a might have been, and Blair is a war criminial who introduced privatisation into education and health, and gave the tories the opportunity to destroy both.

An election is coming before 2020 and everyone is going to face a choice, vote corbyn or let the tories back in.

What about constituencies where the Libdems are second to the Tories?

I think you're being a bit simplistic.

If Labour fall far enough in the polls, voting for them instead of the Libdems, SNP, Plaid, Green etc could turn out to be the vote splitter that allows the Tories to come through the middle.

With new boundaries, tactical voting in 2020 is going to be a nightmare to work out, but it could prove crucial.

[Temulkar]

Why would you think the brand is not damaged long term? Once Labour has elected someone of Corbyn's stripe, the Tories will always hold out the prospect of the party bringing him or his equivalent baclk. It took years and years of dull centerism for Kinnock, Smith and Blair to repair labour's image. Why would a quick fix be available this time, when the crisis is so much worse? Why is history a poor guide this time?

And that is before we get to the transformation of the base. If/when McDonnell's rule change gets through, we'll be lumbered with Corbyn mini-mes forever.

Actually it took the implosion of the SDP, you know the right wing cunts who would rather have thatcher in power than a socialist, so they fucked over the party, the movement, and the country. The same attitude that the people on the right of labour are doing now, except this bunch don't even have the moral courage to split, instead they will destroy labour rather than let a socialist win. They are and always have been Whigs. .

Kinnock was a two election losing joke, Smith a might have been, and Blair is a war criminial who introduced privatisation into education and health, and gave the tories the opportunity to destroy both.

An election is coming before 2020 and everyone is going to face a choice, vote corbyn or let the tories back in.

I thought you voted Green? Splitter.

I'm not in a marginal, I have that luxury, but I think the next election is probably the most important since the war, so...

[Temulkar]

Why would you think the brand is not damaged long term? Once Labour has elected someone of Corbyn's stripe, the Tories will always hold out the prospect of the party bringing him or his equivalent baclk. It took years and years of dull centerism for Kinnock, Smith and Blair to repair labour's image. Why would a quick fix be available this time, when the crisis is so much worse? Why is history a poor guide this time?

And that is before we get to the transformation of the base. If/when McDonnell's rule change gets through, we'll be lumbered with Corbyn mini-mes forever.

Actually it took the implosion of the SDP, you know the right wing cunts who would rather have thatcher in power than a socialist, so they fucked over the party, the movement, and the country. The same attitude that the people on the right of labour are doing now, except this bunch don't even have the moral courage to split, instead they will destroy labour rather than let a socialist win. They are and always have been Whigs. .

Kinnock was a two election losing joke, Smith a might have been, and Blair is a war criminial who introduced privatisation into education and health, and gave the tories the opportunity to destroy both.

An election is coming before 2020 and everyone is going to face a choice, vote corbyn or let the tories back in.

What about constituencies where the Libdems are second to the Tories?

I think you're being a bit simplistic.

If Labour fall far enough in the polls, voting for them instead of the Libdems, SNP, Plaid, Green etc could turn out to be the vote splitter that allows the Tories to come through the middle.

With new boundaries, tactical voting in 2020 is going to be a nightmare to work out, but it could prove crucial.

That's true, and I thinkthere will be a huge grassroots thing pointing just that out to people during the election, Wwhether its an official progressive alliance or not, if its a lib/con marginal then hell yeah vote liberal. If your in Norwich or Bristol or Brighton, vote green, anywhere else vote labour. A lab/snp/lib coalition is better than what the tories have in store for us.

[SpinningHugo]

I'm not in a marginal, I have that luxury, but I think the next election is probably the most important since the war, so...

You tease.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself. I've always voted Labour, save in 2005 when I didn't because of Iraq. Not supporting Labour in previous elections rather voids your claims about the priority of loyalty.

The most important election was probably 2015. Labour lost. That was the time to get behind Labour.The next one won't be very important by comparison. Brexit will have happened, and Labour is now a different kind of party.

[Temulkar]

I'm not in a marginal, I have that luxury, but I think the next election is probably the most important since the war, so...

You tease.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself. I've always voted Labour, save in 2005 when I didn't because of Iraq. Not supporting Labour in previous elections rather voids your claims about the priority of loyalty.

The most important election was probably 2015. Labour lost. That was the time to get behind Labour.The next one won't be very important by comparison. Brexit will have happened, and Labour is now a different kind of party.

YOu dissemble.

You don't know that brexit will have happened, indeed quite the opposiite, the next election is likely to be Brexit yes or no.

[SpinningHugo]

I'm not in a marginal, I have that luxury, but I think the next election is probably the most important since the war, so...

You tease.

I think you should be ashamed of yourself. I've always voted Labour, save in 2005 when I didn't because of Iraq. Not supporting Labour in previous elections rather voids your claims about the priority of loyalty.

The most important election was probably 2015. Labour lost. That was the time to get behind Labour.The next one won't be very important by comparison. Brexit will have happened, and Labour is now a different kind of party.

YOu dissemble.

You don't know that brexit will have happened, indeed quite the opposiite, the next election is likely to be Brexit yes or no.

Very unlikely. Unlike you, I am sure the next election will be in 2020. We'll have left over a year earlier. Labour should buck all past historic trends and do better in polling than it is now because of the adverse economic impact. But it will still lose, badly.

The idea that we'll get an opportunity to back out of Brexit is wishful thinking. I wish it were true, but it obviously isn't.

[Temulkar]

we'll see...

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ter-admits" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Universal credit issues driving tenants into debt, ex-minister admits

[PorFavor]

The BBC is going big on the Surrey (now non-) referendum story.

[HindleA]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... losed-down" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



'Dubs' scheme to bring lone child refugees to UK to close

[StephenDolan]

The BBC is going big on the Surrey (now non-) referendum story.

Is that on the radio, news 24 or radio 5 live?
BBC news app has Tara palmer tompkinson top story. Yes, really.

[PorFavor]

The BBC is going big on the Surrey (now non-) referendum story.

Is that on the radio, news 24 or radio 5 live?
BBC news app has Tara palmer tompkinson top story. Yes, really.

I've been seeing it on BBC News24 (TV). Tara Palmer-Tomkinson is hot on its heels, though.

[PorFavor]

They were texts and not "Tweets", apparently. I said, earlier, that they were "Tweets" (Sorry, Surrey.)

[HindleA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... 17-to-2018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Guidance
Social care charging for local authorities: 2017 to 2018

[HindleA]

http://linkis.com/www.bbc.co.uk/news/mQNyP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Universal credit may 'take decades to perfect'


"UC collapses all benefits into one and is being rolled out in Britain."

Where to start with that bollox

[yahyah]

Good to see Harry Leslie Smith's not piping down over Article 50.

''Breaking the Dubs Agreement to take 3k refugee children shows Theresa May's word can't be trusted & #BrexitBill should be rejected.''

[PaulfromYorkshire]

PARLY ‏@ParlyApp

Final series of votes on committee stage amendments should begin just before 6pm. There could be as many as four votes. #article50bill

[PaulfromYorkshire]

They were texts and not "Tweets", apparently. I said, earlier, that they were "Tweets" (Sorry, Surrey.)

They did look a bit like Tweets

[Lost Soul]

Have we had this yet ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-so ... e-38884762" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Three Labour MPs have each won £54,000 High Court defamation damages from UKIP MEP Jane Collins over remarks she made about Rotherham's child abuse scandal.'

'Ms Collins faces an estimated bill for costs of £196,000. She was ordered to make an interim payment of £120,000.

That sum, plus the total of £162,000 damages, must be paid within 21 days.'


Expensive way to learn that you can't just make stuff up...

Who's next ?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Yes, it was mentioned a few days ago.

Bears repeating, though

[citizenJA]

May says she hopes Labour voters will look at Tories 'afresh' and consider voting for them

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... b4fbbea024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Voting now on

New Clause 2 - Labour

Before giving any notification under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the Prime Minister shall give an undertaking to have regard to the public interest during negotiations in—

(a) maintaining a stable and sustainable economy,

(b) preserving peace in Northern Ireland,

(c) having trading arrangements with the European Union for goods and services that are free of tariff and non-tariff barriers and further regulatory burdens,

(d) co-operation with the European Union in education, research and science, environment protection, and preventing and detecting serious and organised crime and terrorist activity,

(e) maintaining all existing social, economic, consumer and workers’ rights.”

[yahyah]

There'll be nine votes according to the Sparrow.
That'll take a while. Bogger.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

[yahyah]

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Ben BradshawVerified account ‏@BenPBradshaw 1m1 minute ago

MPs currently voting on important #article50bill amendments with final Third Reading vote due just before 20.00.