Thursday 9th February 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 2:15 pm

Didn't know that you usually slice them,you live and learn.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 2:20 pm

I'm being good and eating crispbread or alternative cardboard.

Two were enough,think I'll make a bookcase with what is left.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 2:30 pm

Anyone listening to Red and Blue on R4 ?
Under constant threat from hackers, financial institutions take cyber-security very seriously. A City hedge fund has hired war-gaming expert Bradley Shoreham to test its networks in a planned exercise. Although barely computer literate himself, Shoreham has prepared a whole box of cyber tricks to do battle with the firm's IT experts. And he's prepared to play dirty in order to demonstrate how a multi-million pound business can be brought to its knees.
The second series of Red and Blue from 2013; Philip Palmer's trilogy that focuses on Bradley Shoreham (Tim Woodward). After leaving the British Army, Shoreham became a Consultant Subject Matter Expert. He spends his working life creating war games for training purposes. Fictional they may be but the higher the level of authenticity the greater their value to the participants. And when governments are paying for training they expect a high return for their money.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b038zh9z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 2:32 pm

I actually think that Trump could be the breaking of May's government, and maybe screw up brexit too. Lets be fair, if we end up with a serious international crisis on our hands, Brexit will be off the table.

I think now might be a good time for Corbyn to beg Cooper to come back as shad home sec, where she can actually do some good, and Milliband at Environment. Clive Lewis will be back in a couple of months.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 2:34 pm

Have it on my listen later list.Some of them are just talking over scenarios,I prefer the ones when they carry them out.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 2:39 pm

Rupert Murdoch sat in on Gove interview with Donald Trump https://www.ft.com/content/74408ae0-eeb ... %2Fproduct" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … via @FT

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 2:41 pm

Temulkar wrote:I actually think that Trump could be the breaking of May's government, and maybe screw up brexit too. Lets be fair, if we end up with a serious international crisis on our hands, Brexit will be off the table.

I think now might be a good time for Corbyn to beg Cooper to come back as shad home sec, where she can actually do some good, and Milliband at Environment. Clive Lewis will be back in a couple of months.

Agree on the Trump, Cooper and Miliband points. Echo... Echo... Echo..

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 2:53 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ane-abbott" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Conservative official suspended over 'racist' tweet aimed at Diane Abbott
Activist under investigation as member of shadow home secretary’s staff complains that police have failed to act on regular death threats and abuse

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 2:57 pm

Guardian now has FT Murdoch/Trump story if unable to access FT.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 3:08 pm

HindleA wrote:Have it on my listen later list.Some of them are just talking over scenarios,I prefer the ones when they carry them out.

This is a "do" one not quite as gripping as the war scenarios, but you might enjoy it. Nice references to Black Wednesday as well.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 3:09 pm

HindleA wrote:Guardian now has FT Murdoch/Trump story if unable to access FT.

Thanks - I tried the FT link provided by Temulkar - but couldn't access it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 3:11 pm

The Sparrow's put a call in to Gove's office to ask for comment.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 3:13 pm

I can,maybe because I have been (freely) registered for some time,don't know.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 3:46 pm

yahyah wrote:Or sit with a cake and a fork.

Done.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:19 pm

tinybgoat wrote:http://www.conservativehome.com/thetory ... onals.html
Earlier this afternoon, in the Article 50 debate, Ed Vaizey dropped a little bit of a clanger. He referred to a letter from the Home Secretary which had been circulated to MPs offering assurances about the rights of EU citizens. Inevitably, Labour and SNP MPs then demanded the letter be lodged in the House of Commons Library for all to see.

Thank you for this.

Attempts to force the government to give all EU citizens in the UK permanent residency after Britain leaves the bloc have been defeated.

The government successfully blocked the bid to add the protections in amendments to the Brexit bill in the House of Commons on Wednesday by 332 votes to 290. Three Tory MPs voted in favour...

During the Commons debate before the vote, the former culture minister Ed Vaizey said Tory MPs had received reassurances from the home secretary, Amber Rudd, on the status of EU citizens after departure from the EU. The letter, published later by ConservativeHome, stresses “any hold-up is less an issue of principle than one of timing with a few EU countries insisting there can be ‘no negotiation before notification’”.

[Labour and SNP MPs] asked Vaizey to publish the letter or place it in the House of Commons library. The Tory MP then admitted he may have made a “faux pas”. [Vaizey] said: “It was addressed ‘Dear colleague’ so it may just have been for me. It may be private correspondence for me to circulate to my European constituents who are among the most talented Europeans living in this country. I’ve only been in the house for 11 years so I’m still learning the ropes.”

A No 10 spokesman said: "This was a ‘Dear colleague’ letter just repeating the messages the prime minister has made about protecting the rights of EU citizens in the UK and reciprocal arrangements."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... zens-in-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tory government are leaving EU nationals in the UK and abroad in intolerable insecurity. Unconscionable conduct. T May's government circulating the lie the EU has to reciprocate at this time makes me sick. They literally can't. The 27 EU nations haven't been notified the UK is leaving. Remember this. The Tory MP, Vaizey, talking about private communications meant to settle fears of his constituents, 'the most talented Europeans living in this country' (!). I detest the implication Vaizey is making, singling out a set of people he figures are real important. No doubt they are. But so are they all.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:23 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 71351.html

Tata Steel UK has concluded the £100m sale of its Specialty Steels business to Sanjeev Gupta's Liberty House in a deal that should guarantee some 1,700 jobs in Northern England.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:24 pm

The moment Dave Cameron bailed out of his premiership without keeping his word on Article 50 was the exact time, if I were a Labour party MP, I'd have called one great big time-out and asked the Tory party just what the hell they are up to? Loudly. Without letting up. Here we have the EU referendum results. Dave Cameron's bailed out. He's failed to keep his promises. What the hell are Tory government doing? What's Tory government doing? What are you doing? You've got a failed PM who's left his post. What are government doing? Labour (and the rest of the opposition) needed only this. Failure PM bails out of his promises. Get out. Tory government failure. Get out. That's what Labour should have done.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:28 pm

Simple, sustained demands for transparent action. Tory government were dying. They'd screwed up. It was in the faces of every last one of them, Leave and Remain alike.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:35 pm

citizenJA wrote:The moment Dave Cameron bailed out of his premiership without keeping his word on Article 50 was the exact time, if I were a Labour party MP, I'd have called one great big time-out and asked the Tory party just what the hell they are up to? Loudly. Without letting up. Here we have the EU referendum results. Dave Cameron's bailed out. He's failed to keep his promises. What the hell are Tory government doing? What's Tory government doing? What are you doing? You've got a failed PM who's left his post. What are government doing? Labour (and the rest of the opposition) needed only this. Failure PM bails out of his promises. Get out. Tory government failure. Get out. That's what Labour should have done.

The majority of the press were at that point glowing in the glory of a Leave win. In that moment, it didn't matter that Cameron resigned, it was minor news. In normal times, that would've been THE news, but it wasn't normal times.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:40 pm

<coughs politely and not at all argumentatively>

'In damning headlines and critical editorials....editors scorn PM and ridicule...'
https://www.theguardian.com/media/green ... r-quitting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:46 pm

yahyah wrote:<coughs politely> https://www.theguardian.com/media/green ... r-quitting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He was criticised for bailing in relation to the referendum. That's even what appears in the piece you linked to. And the days after? It was all about who should be pm based upon... drumroll... their position on the referendum. Cameron unleashed the beast and was consumed by it. It then became (and still is) the reference point for all political stories.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:48 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
citizenJA wrote:The moment Dave Cameron bailed out of his premiership without keeping his word on Article 50 was the exact time, if I were a Labour party MP, I'd have called one great big time-out and asked the Tory party just what the hell they are up to? Loudly. Without letting up. Here we have the EU referendum results. Dave Cameron's bailed out. He's failed to keep his promises. What the hell are Tory government doing? What's Tory government doing? What are you doing? You've got a failed PM who's left his post. What are government doing? Labour (and the rest of the opposition) needed only this. Failure PM bails out of his promises. Get out. Tory government failure. Get out. That's what Labour should have done.
The majority of the press were at that point glowing in the glory of a Leave win. In that moment, it didn't matter that Cameron resigned, it was minor news. In normal times, that would've been THE news, but it wasn't normal times.

I was there. No one was glowing. Not when Dave Cameron resigned and declined to follow through.

We're not at that time any more. It's past. Thank you for indulging me, for reading my post. I wrote what I wrote in my journals at the time it was happening. I have to accept the time is gone. Know this, nothing has strengthened UK government since the referendum result. T May's Tory government is just as bad as Dave Cameron's. She's as shameless as Dave, probably more so. The UK is led by a wretched, Tory government.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:52 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
yahyah wrote:<coughs politely> https://www.theguardian.com/media/green ... r-quitting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He was criticised for bailing in relation to the referendum. That's even what appears in the piece you linked to. And the days after? It was all about who should be pm based upon... drumroll... their position on the referendum. Cameron unleashed the beast and was consumed by it. It then became (and still is) the reference point for all political stories.

The moment Cameron resigned, the opposition needed to be there, demanding to know what Tory government were doing. Demanding to know what a failed Tory government were doing now their Tory boy ran away. Cameron wasn't the only one consumed by his failure Tory government. The whole government leadership were exposed for the failures they were.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:54 pm

JA said 'at the moment Cameron bailed out'... you wrote 'at that moment it didn't matter that Cameron resigned'. I didn't realise you meant later on than when he resigned. Was taking the word moment as meaning moment/time around/immediately linked with, not later on.

Also, isn't JA making the point it was up to Labour to make a loud noise about it, as she says 'make a big noise...and not let up about it' ?

It wasn't 'minor news' that Cameron resigned. It was covered quite extensively, unless I imagined it on Radio 4 and elsewhere.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:55 pm

@StephenDolan
We're here now and we can't change that. I accept.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 4:58 pm

Is it cold in Stoke JA ?
If your other half is canvassing hope he's well wrapped.
It's freezing here, too cold to go out and garden. Wind chill of minus 10 on the weather report for here and it feels lower.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 5:00 pm

yahyah wrote:JA said 'at the moment Cameron bailed out'... you wrote 'at that moment it didn't matter that Cameron resigned'. I didn't realise you meant later on than when he resigned. Was taking the word moment as meaning moment/time around/immediately linked with, not later on.

Also, isn't JA making the point it was up to Labour to make a loud noise about it, as she says 'make a big noise...and not let up about it' ?

It wasn't 'minor news' that Cameron resigned. It was covered quite extensively, unless I imagined it on Radio 4 and elsewhere.

Yes. Cameron's resignation and failure doing what he said he'd do was the moment for the opposition to nail the whole Tory government. Cameron alone was sacrificed. The whole Tory government were exposed and should have been made to fall with him.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 5:02 pm

yahyah wrote:Is it cold in Stoke JA ?
If your other half is canvassing hope he's well wrapped.
It's freezing here, too cold to go out and garden. Wind chill of minus 10 on the weather report for here and it feels lower.

It's cold here, yahyah. Mr citizen isn't happy. I'm not either. There's too much sorrow.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 5:03 pm

I'll put the kettle on.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 5:07 pm

There's that feeling of having a bad hangover today, but without having consumed any alcohol.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 5:14 pm

We're not alone JA. Lots of people feel like us.

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citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 5:37 pm

yahyah wrote:We're not alone JA. Lots of people feel like us.

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Thank you, yahyah and thank you, StephenDolan. Both of you took the time to read and respond to me. Thank you to anyone reading my posts. I'm not a Labour MP, I'm not in Labour leadership of any kind, I'm a Labour party member. I don't have any kind of platform or position of power. I've FlyTheNest, friends and family.

It's easy for Tories. They acknowledge one thing as sacred - Tories holding onto power, not sharing it with people but keeping it for themselves. There's where Labour is fundamentally and practically different. Labour still has a record of holding power in order to give some to regular people. I'll never countenance anyone calling Labour and Tory the same. It's a lie. The practical side of power sharing is messy, in the Labour party, in all democratic endeavours including a lot of people.

I wrote what I did not to harass anyone, I'm not pointing a finger of blame onto anyone outside of the architects of this failure - Tory government. Being on the spot, seeing it unfold - so, what, cJA? I'm not a Labour MP, I communicated within a small circle and it was discouraging. What I've written about today may have been impossible for reasons I don't know. I accept that.

Look what the UK has leading it. Almost seven years of Tory party leadership crashing people and country. Tory government leading badly.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 5:50 pm

I hadn't read Wes Streeting's work, I'd not read other Labour MPs and Labour supporters articles today, everyone, at the time of writing up yonder.
I know those articles were linked here today earlier.
I'm not kicking Labour, okay?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 5:54 pm

Shadow Secretary of State for Business – Rebecca Long-Bailey

Shadow Secretary of State for Environment – Sue Hayman

Shadow Secretary of State for Wales – Christina Rees

Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury – Peter Dowd

Long-Bailey now third favourite to be next leader. Worth a flutter.

On the turnover

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... j57882rzfr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 6:04 pm

I couldn't see that anyone got back to Andrew Sparrow with regard to the Michael Gove\Donald Trump interview. Not that I'm overly surprised.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 6:09 pm

PorFavor wrote:I couldn't see that anyone got back to Andrew Sparrow with regard to the Michael Gove\Donald Trump interview. Not that I'm overly surprised.

They're probably still out on a long liquid lunch celebrating last night's vote.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 6:15 pm

The choice of Shadow Welsh Secretary was a bit narrowed by the rebellion.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 6:22 pm

John Smith, Gordon Brown and Robin Cook all did the job Long-Bailey now has. Big department to shadow. She's clearly headed for great things.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 6:30 pm

It's a good post. Given that Hard Brexit is going to make us all richer, she can set a lot of traps.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 6:41 pm

No plans to shut up shop. Also, adam has kindly volunteered to be a forum mod, so you'd all best be nice to him

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 6:51 pm

Thanks Refitman, and thanks to Adam too.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 6:56 pm

Ed Miliband asks Ofcom for inquiry into Rupert Murdoch Sky bid

The former Labour leader Ed Miliband is leading a campaign for the media regulator Ofcom to launch a full inquiry into Rupert Murdoch’s bid for ownership of the satellite broadcaster Sky. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... ch-sky-bid

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 7:00 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Shadow Secretary of State for Business – Rebecca Long-Bailey

Long-Bailey now third favourite to be next leader. Worth a flutter.

More of a dull thud than a flutter... Really ?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 7:07 pm

Duplication.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 7:08 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -of-horses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Concerns raised over Brexit impact on free movement of horses

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 7:09 pm

Lost Soul wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Shadow Secretary of State for Business – Rebecca Long-Bailey

Long-Bailey now third favourite to be next leader. Worth a flutter.

Y

More of a dull thud than a flutter... Really ?

Yep, now joint second favourite with Starmer

https://m.oddschecker.com/m/politics/br ... our-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Factor in

1. There will only be room for one Corbynite MP on the ballot as two can't get over the nomination threshold even if it is lowered. She'll be annointed not Lewis, so the favourite doesn't get nominated.

2. Starmer is very overrated. He just isn't any good.

3. There will be enormous internal pressure to have a woman.

4. Who else?

I know there is a competence issue, but Corbyn won twice.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 7:13 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... accusation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gary Lineker hits back at Daily Mail over tax accusation
Former England striker says he pays his taxes in full, will not be bullied and will continue to speak up for refugees

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 7:14 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ial-thames" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

London garden bridge case weaker now than in 2014, says Treasury official
Letter to public accounts committee chair appears to signal ebbing of government support for controversial Thames project

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 7:16 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sh-schools" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Damning report slams firms who built fault-ridden Scottish schools
Failings by PFI contractors and Edinburgh city council highlighted by inquiry following emergency closure in 2016 of 17 schools in Scotland’s capital

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 09 Feb, 2017 7:17 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... on-gatwick" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

G4S to take over welfare support for families facing deportation
Home Office expected to announce controversial contractor will provide services rather than Barnardo’s charity