Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th February 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 12:47 pm

Think Trump is having a bigly rally today.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 12:48 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... resistance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trump loyalists stand by their man – but the resistance is taking root

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 12:48 pm

HindleA wrote:http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1573929 ... c-violence

Labour Press
Consultation for robust domestic violence legislation is much needed and long overdue - Champion

The law is fine. There is nothing wrong with it really.

The problem is funding, especially cuts to legal aid (is there is none anymore)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 12:51 pm

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald- ... es-n722586" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

‘Not My President’s Day’: Thousands Plan Anti-Trump Rallies Across U.S.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:00 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The Donald won't take kindly to being "sidelined", though <orders industrial sized bags of popcorn>

Maybe it'll be like today and he gets to do a rally or go on holiday. But hard to see him putting up with that for too long.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:05 pm

Willow904 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

I'm not a fan of Jeremy Corbyn - but I don't feel isolated here as a result of that fact.

Lurking more broadly, I think there has been a distinct change of mood in this regard.
Of those who recently left, many were Corbyn supporters, or at least supporters of his response to Brexit. Some who posted less after Corbyn was elected have been posting more again now, so I agree that is broadly true.

There were similar divergences of opinion when Ed was leader, of course, but the division now is greater. It stems, I believe, from the time of the leadership election last year when an attempt to dedicate threads to the contenders as had happened during other leadership elections led to a breakdown in respect for others right to their own opinion, a lack of respect that went well beyond "I think you're wrong to support Corbyn/Smith". I think for some posters the forum has felt a little less friendly since, but the idea it has become obsessed with a specific topic doesn't ring true for me. I've particularly been enjoying Adam's knowledgeable posts about US politics lately. The forum will only ever be the sum of its posts, so if anyone reading wants to see some different stuff on here then, please, get posting. The more the merrier. The "left" is very broad, there really should be room for more than one perspective.

(cJA emphasis)

Yes. Cooperation, inclusion, working toward equality for all, giving everyone a voice, will typically create a larger, more diverse group of people in membership. Getting members of that group working in sufficient accord is difficult. It's always been this way historically.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:08 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-3900 ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wrexham man's disability payments withdrawn 'in error'

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:10 pm

pk1 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:No round-up yesterday as there was actually a Friday byelection, in Wokingham. Which was a LibDem gain from Tory on a big swing.
Made all the sweeter for being in John Redwoods constituency

Interesting...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:24 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:No round-up yesterday as there was actually a Friday byelection, in Wokingham. Which was a LibDem gain from Tory on a big swing.
(cJA bold)

Might explain T May's willingness risking perjury charges in letters. Labour MPs reiterating they haven't voted against May's, 'plan to deliver Brexit'.

Apologies if I wasn't clear. I meant the LibDems gaining from Tories with big swings may have to do with disdain for Tory 'Brexit'. Placing Labour MPs in the position of exposing lies about them from May in this case is cynical and ugly. LibDems won't likely do well in Stoke Central. Calling attention to Stoke Labour MPs vote in this way for this contest suits Tories fine.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:28 pm

I've been away from the computer. It's nothing to do with FlyTheNest.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:33 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://ukandeu.ac.uk/is-labours-brexit- ... u8.twitter

Is Labour’s Brexit dilemma being misunderstood

John Curtice
Some truth in it, but I think it misses that not all "remain" voters are of a hive "the 48%" mind.

In areas like my own, even many of the remain minority now accept that Brexit is happening and we have to get on with it.

Why might that be ? Nothing to do with Labour, Tories, Ukip and most of the press ?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:34 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ism-campus

UK universities urged to tackle rising tide of antisemitism on campus

Just as disturbing is the month-old article about David Irving linked within. Once again I go back to what I said last week about the internet, Google, "lone wolves" etc.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:36 pm

It my be due to all or none of those things.

Another reason may be that they - I, for that matter - have to live in majority "leave" areas and thus realise many had understandable and legitimate reasons for voting as they did. And yes, I think I have more in common with at least some of them than I do with many "remain" voters in Surrey or Buckinghamshire.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:44 pm

citizenJA wrote:I've been away from the computer. It's nothing to do with FlyTheNest.

Have you been able to get out and about ? Beautiful weather here. Warm, sunny and perfect for walking and gardening.

Easy to do as we're told and forget Brexit (hard, soft, or medium), and polling figures, when it's like this.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 1:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour leader blames social (care)crisis on ‘disgraceful neglect’ of government as crucial Stoke and Copeland byelections approach

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 2:02 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:It my be due to all or none of those things.

Another reason may be that they - I, for that matter - have to live in majority "leave" areas and thus realise many had understandable and legitimate reasons for voting as they did. And yes, I think I have more in common with at least some of them than I do with many "remain" voters in Surrey or Buckinghamshire.

Where I live the people who want to leave the EU are Jacob Rees-Mogg and Liam Fox and I find I have nothing in common with them whatsoever

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 2:02 pm

Remember when things were all so much better, before Tony Blair came in and emboldened young criminals and turned London into a no go area?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Philip_Lawrence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note who pops up to lie.

In August 2007, an Asylum and Immigration Tribunal ruled that Chindamo could not be deported to his home country of Italy on completion of his prison sentence.[5] This decision was widely misunderstood as being primarily based in human rights law.[6][unreliable source?] In fact, there were two grounds for it.

EU Law: First, he had resided in the UK for 19 years (having lived in England since age 6). Whilst 10 of those years did not count as he was in jail, the 9 remaining years were a sufficiently long time to make him a 'permanent resident' under EU law. As such, only 'serious grounds of...public security' could justify his expulsion.[7] The tribunal disagreed with the Home Office's argument that this threshold was reached in Chindamo's case, so deportation was unlawful.

Human rights law: Second, the tribunal found that even if the EU law argument had failed, he would have a right to stay under human rights law. In the exceptional circumstances of his having lived in England since age 6, an Article 8 right to "family life" was found in relation to his mother and siblings.[6]

Criticism: The decision was severely criticised by Frances Lawrence, widow of the murdered headteacher Philip Lawrence.[1] David Cameron, as leader of the opposition, argued that the case showed the Human Rights Act 1998 'has to go' and be replaced by a "British Bill of Rights".[8]

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 2:10 pm

yahyah wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I've been away from the computer. It's nothing to do with FlyTheNest.
Have you been able to get out and about ? Beautiful weather here. Warm, sunny and perfect for walking and gardening.

Easy to do as we're told and forget Brexit (hard, soft, or medium), and polling figures, when it's like this.

The weather sounds lovely, yahyah, I wish I'd been able to enjoy it. I pushed myself too hard and caught a cold.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 2:16 pm

Nobody has told you/us to forget about Brexit nor polls.Quite clear people are free to do so.People equally have the right to express an opinion as to their perception of (over)proponderance,manner in which,dangers of and purpose of doing so.

This is a statement.Not a debating point.

Supreme Being of both the known and unknown universe.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 2:25 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:It my be due to all or none of those things.

Another reason may be that they - I, for that matter - have to live in majority "leave" areas and thus realise many had understandable and legitimate reasons for voting as they did. And yes, I think I have more in common with at least some of them than I do with many "remain" voters in Surrey or Buckinghamshire.
Where I live the people who want to leave the EU are Jacob Rees-Mogg and Liam Fox and I find I have nothing in common with them whatsoever

I know you are "fortunate" enough to have them as your local MPs. Believe me, I genuinely sympathise

Even if the worst happens next week I can console myself with having two Labour MPs as neighbours - plus Tim Farron, I suppose

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 2:42 pm

Credit to OP.

youngian wrote:
Scott Nelson ‏@SocialistVoice 21h21 hours ago
Tony Blair was backed by people like Rupert Murdoch. Jeremy Corbyn is backed by people like Ken Loach.

Just think about that for a moment.
I have; Murdoch and Corbyn both back May and Farage on Brexit and Blair doesn't.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 2:47 pm

Stoke-on-Trent's electorate totals 179,010 and those voting Leave in the 2016 EU referendum number 81,563, according to the source linked below.

http://public.tableau.com/profile/phil. ... ndumResult

Why don't more people vote?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 3:16 pm

Ok. I'll indulge (some of) you -

Lincoln City topple Burnley as Sean Raggett seals historic FA Cup shock (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... tch-report

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 3:26 pm

PorFavor wrote:Ok. I'll indulge (some of) you -

Lincoln City topple Burnley as Sean Raggett seals historic FA Cup shock (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... tch-report

This is about sport, isn't it?

I'd turned down places on the badminton and cross-country running teams at school. I'd played tennis when I was a kid. It's only been recently I've played chess with my spouse. He's a better chess player. I lose more frequently than win. It's completely fine, win or lose. There'd been a time not long past I couldn't say that. Losing teaches me what I wouldn't know if I didn't play.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 3:44 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ul-nuttall

We are overdosing on empathy
Gaby Hinsliff

Give me human rights and a sufficiently socialised system over 'empathy' based causes anyday. They are about real world stuff. I have seen far too many take up causes they know nothing about on the basis of empathising with various 'victims' some of whom never were. Also I am very weary of pictures of starved, abused, children, animals etc. which clearly are about some poor being that has long since perished. Images that are fixed in time. And immensely more affecting than the facts.

Affluence comes via the circulation of assets and not by stagnation. And a kind of national generosity that seems to have died a death.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 4:15 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://ukandeu.ac.uk/is-labours-brexit- ... u8.twitter

Is Labour’s Brexit dilemma being misunderstood

John Curtice
Some truth in it, but I think it misses that not all "remain" voters are of a hive "the 48%" mind.

In areas like my own, even many of the remain minority now accept that Brexit is happening and we have to get on with it.
Because they have always thought that for themselves or because they have been led to believe that by the media and parliamentary consensus that "Brexit means Brexit"?

And that certainly doesn't mean they would necessarily be averse to the argument Ed Miliband tried to get going that although immigration certainly needs to be looked at, staying in the single market should be a priority.

Labour have meekly allowed May to ram the Brexit debate through parliament at breakneck speed. They have never challenged her timetable. And your argument that people just want to get on with it - there are lots of things the public want to get on with, but it's not always possible if they are to be done properly and that's not exactly a difficult argument to make by anyone so inclined over something as big as this.

The point is it will happen no matter what people want, or what the Labour party says or does. They do not command a majority, we have ample evidence that the tories only turn if their voters are being turned off, and Therasa May and her familiars will go ahead, unless by some very marginal. and currently invisible, turn of events forces their hand the other way. As the social upheaval that will cause will be worse than anything we have seen so far I doubt this will happen. The best we can do is present a united front against them. That may not right now be brexit. It is not about expediency now, it is about national survival. While all this is going on real people are on their knees and the misrule is reaping a whirlwind.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 4:37 pm

Yeah, well, IDS benefit changes were happening, the public had spoken, no matter what we might want Harriet Harman and the Labour Party to say. But this was apparently a disastrous betrayal and we had to have Jez because he'd never do anything like that.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 4:40 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... tical-care" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Charities call for NHS to stop rationing critical care
PM urged to find more money in budget for patients with rare and complex conditions

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 4:49 pm

HindleA wrote:Morning

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -from-lies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

McCain savages Trump administration and inability to 'separate truth from lies'
Republican senator uses Munich speech to reflect on ‘disarray’ in Trump White house, saying president contradicts himself

You and your alternative facts Mr H.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:02 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote: .....
It started me thinking of the time when people here were literally begging Anatoly to post that here. And then I reflected on the first days of this Forum. FlyTheNest - a haven from evil nesting. We decided to drop the "from evil nesting" and we added the lovely photo. It's North Haven on Fair Isle. A haven.
.....
Things change and that's fine. But for me, and perhaps just for me, this place is no longer a haven.

Without Mr H and SGO, RefitBourne, PF, AK and others (including you Paul) my life would not be the same. I enjoy the range of views from Misters Dolan, Isaacs and Snozers and very much miss the wit and wisdom of JohnnyT. There are others too, so don't feel left out.

I can of course happily live without getting unpleasant pms from fellow nest fliers, (the very recent receipt of one provided some interesting insight). But it's true overall we are less collaborative than we were. To some extent polarised. I would enjoy it if we went back to being collaborative, despite the fact that we don't always agree. Otherwise it'll end up a place where three people agree with each other about one thing. (I don't have anything or anyone specific in mind, am just making a general point).

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:05 pm

HindleA wrote:Think Trump is having a bigly rally today.

I think it will be the biggest rally ever.
Wow. What a big rally.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:07 pm

Beware the smiling assassin.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:17 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Yeah, well, IDS benefit changes were happening, the public had spoken, no matter what we might want Harriet Harman and the Labour Party to say. But this was apparently a disastrous betrayal and we had to have Jez because he'd never do anything like that.

GENERAL ELECTION IS NOT THE SAME AS A REFERENDUM KLAXON.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:18 pm

Diet update:Pounds on during attempt 6lbs
Pounds off since abandoning 6lbs.

I was misweighed during a GP is he still alive appointment,so I wasn't overweight but having wasted monies on some sort of weighing device-scales? I experimented with this dieting thing with above results.I have confirmed my figures with other peoples' scales-did get a strange look for the request from a series of neighbours but most obliged.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:20 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 87031.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anti-Brexit campaigners have brought traffic to a crawl on the main road between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

A convoy of protesters staged a noisy motorway go-slow near Dundalk, Co Louth, on Saturday, using lorries and tractors to highlight the impact of predicted customs checks on the local economy.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:23 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Yeah, well, IDS benefit changes were happening, the public had spoken, no matter what we might want Harriet Harman and the Labour Party to say. But this was apparently a disastrous betrayal and we had to have Jez because he'd never do anything like that.
GENERAL ELECTION IS NOT THE SAME AS A REFERENDUM KLAXON.

General Election a month before is very much like a referendum.

IDS benefit cuts are like the teddy bear's picnic compared to Hard Brexit- on which there was no referendum anyhow.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:31 pm

Interesting stuff in the G on Australias robo debt collections linked to tax and benefits, and various global connections. As Universal Credit starts to hit hard, and not just the 'shirkers' (aussie speak leaners) but workers too and the health and work stuff too, perhaps some might be interested to note the similarities and differences. What is patently not working for our Southern friends with a much smaller population for instance, and with less entrenched problems, is about to be visited on a largely unsuspecting population here. Their experience doesn't bode well for us. Widespread inability to communicate with anyone real or to overturn debts resulting from overpayments, perceived debt of the past, and systemic problems due to a built in and unavoidable error rate are causing a lot of worry. Few people btl defending it. Unlike UC here, where the bile has been plentiful. Reason for more unity, and a party that can put aside its differences for the greater good?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:48 pm

It's possible to disagree on some matters and continue in unity with each other.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:50 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017 ... fano-boeri" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Stefano Boeri, the architect famous for his plant-covered skyscrapers, has designs to create entire new green settlements in a nation plagued by dirty air

Last week, the Italian architect, famed for his tree-clad Bosco Verticale (Vertical Forest) skyscraper complex in Milan, unveiled plans for a similar project in the eastern Chinese city of Nanjing....
...But Boeri now has even bolder plans for China: to create entire “forest cities” in a country that has become synonymous with environmental degradation and smog.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 5:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... -terrorism
Microsoft founder and philanthropist tells Munich security conference genetic engineering could be terrorist weapon

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:01 pm

So the benefits cuts proposals were the sole, main, or even significant reason why the Tories won the 2015 election?

I think not.

Many more were stampeded into voting Tory by the Great Scots Scare (strange how that is almost forgotten now) Or the relentless drumbeat of the previous five years (legitimised by the LibDems as well as Tories, never forget) that Labour "caused the crash through overspending"/"maxed out the national credit card". I would even be pretty sure more votes were decided by Ed Miliband looking a bit funny eating a bacon sandwich.

(that was what the Currant Bun had on their polling day front page after all, not "vote Tory to take more money off already poor people")

But the referendum was about *one* thing - whether to withdraw from the European Union. And, unfortunately, the majority said yes.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:04 pm

While most new US leaders enjoy a spike in popularity at the beginning of their term, Mr Trump’s rating is 21 points lower than the average 61 per cent, according to the highly respected polling agency, Gallup.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 86931.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bizarrely fascinating

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:06 pm

Teachers who avoid physical contact with children in the classroom are guilty of child abuse, experts have claimed.

Members of the British Psychological Society (BPS) said teachers who do not touch children when they are happy, upset or worried could in fact cause harm and hinder pupils’ development.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/educa ... 86926.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One can't help but think they're probably avoiding touching them for fear of being accused of, er, child abuse.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:14 pm

In 2015 the vast majority were in ignorance of the changes in the benefit systen, and NHS. Many are still. Though the media has belatedly started to let people know about things they should have been aware of in 2011-12 when the legislation was going through and a strange silence on the subject fell across the land. Frankly it felt like being Lurkio to mention anything. Very few thought I was doing anything more than agitating unnecessarily. But there was more than enough on immigration, human rights legislation being brought back home, and referendae. I seem to recall plenty of partisan division too. The Three Graces, anyone? Thats how we got here, and still no lessons learned.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:15 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:So the benefits cuts proposals were the sole, main, or even significant reason why the Tories won the 2015 election?

I think not.

Many more were stampeded into voting Tory by the Great Scots Scare (strange how that is almost forgotten now) Or the relentless drumbeat of the previous five years (legitimised by the LibDems as well as Tories, never forget) that Labour "caused the crash through overspending"/"maxed out the national credit card". I would even be pretty sure more votes were decided by Ed Miliband looking a bit funny eating a bacon sandwich.

(that was what the Currant Bun had on their polling day front page after all, not "vote Tory to take more money off already poor people")

But the referendum was about *one* thing - whether to withdraw from the European Union. And, unfortunately, the majority said yes.

The Tories had a huge lead on social security and the cuts were well covered in the campaign.

No referendum on Hard Brexit, starting in March.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:16 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:It my be due to all or none of those things.

Another reason may be that they - I, for that matter - have to live in majority "leave" areas and thus realise many had understandable and legitimate reasons for voting as they did. And yes, I think I have more in common with at least some of them than I do with many "remain" voters in Surrey or Buckinghamshire.
Whether or not the reasons for voting leave were 'legitimate' (and there's a whole can of worms lurking in that issue) doesn't really matter. The votes were cast legally, in a referendum the government made clear would be acted on. Whether I agree with people's votes is immaterial - I agree with their right to vote however they liked, and their right to expect the outcome to be taken forward. It may be a dumb form of democracy, badly handled from start to finish, but it is democracy. If you call for it to be overturned you might as well call for a military coup because you don't like the government.

It's not overturning the 2016 EU referendum results by advocating the UK leave the EU without taking the country out of the Single Market, for example.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:21 pm

Where was the referendum on getting killed in a trade deal by Donald Trump?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:21 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 87031.html
Anti-Brexit campaigners have brought traffic to a crawl on the main road between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

A convoy of protesters staged a noisy motorway go-slow near Dundalk, Co Louth, on Saturday, using lorries and tractors to highlight the impact of predicted customs checks on the local economy.
That's about 30 miles inside the Republic. They aren't anti-Brexit campaigners so much as anti-hard border protesters.

(cJA bold)

Okay. They're protesting against what will happen if Tory 'Brexit' continues on its current trajectory.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:25 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 87031.html
Anti-Brexit campaigners have brought traffic to a crawl on the main road between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

A convoy of protesters staged a noisy motorway go-slow near Dundalk, Co Louth, on Saturday, using lorries and tractors to highlight the impact of predicted customs checks on the local economy.
That's about 30 miles inside the Republic. They aren't anti-Brexit campaigners so much as anti-hard border protesters.

I don't see how a hard border is avoided outside the single market, so I think they're right to protest May's proposals for a hard Brexit.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 18 Feb, 2017 6:35 pm

i cannot see Theresa May turning, right or wrong, on the issue of the single market, she shows no signs of deviating from her stated position, not one whit. And the people she appeases are baying not just for cutting all european ties, a lot of them haven't the foggiest, or are being educated on the fly. And would like to see the downfall of one of the basic three wings of democratic government, and are loudly vociferous about it. And the right wing groups are multiplying and becoming more pernicious, UKIP scandals notwithstanding. We need unity against all this.