Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th February 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 10:34 am

Corbyn responsible for the Wakefield charlatan and the lack of urban butterflies.The search continues.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 10:39 am

HindleA wrote:Corbyn responsible for the Wakefield charlatan and the lack of urban butterflies.The search continues.

He has endorsed some rather dodgy views on homeopathy, mind.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 10:44 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -offensive" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Iraq launches west Mosul offensive as torture videos emerge
Army reports strong start to campaign against Isis but launch overshadowed by images of men in forces uniforms carrying out executions

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 10:46 am

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... onomy-bill" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ministers pledge to keep sport's 'crown jewels' on free TV channels

Crown jewels mean something entirely different to me

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 10:54 am

New Government plan to extend Right To Buy 'to hit affordable housebuilding'
More homes will be eligible to be sold off under a controversial new policy hidden in the small print of the Government's housing white paper
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 82336.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“The Government supports innovative approaches, such as the use of local housing companies, to deliver new affordable and market housing,” the spokesperson said. “However, we are clear that, where a council sets up a housing company to deliver affordable housing, tenants should have equivalent rights to council housing occupants, including a right to buy their home.”

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 10:59 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... fewer-jobs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is Finland’s basic universal income a solution to automation, fewer jobs and lower wages?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 11:08 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
However, even if Wilders wins, he would struggle to form a government because most major parties have ruled out joining a coalition with him, viewing his policies as offensive or unconstitutional. The fragmented political landscape means a coalition government of four or more parties is now all but inevitable.
The sooner we get PR the better. Perhaps we should focus on that.

There's currently a petition on the government petition site for PR that's at about 80,000 signatures that could do with some help to get it up to the 100,000 necessary for consideration for debate. Though I'm doubtful it will get debated, it's worth a go, I suppose. Anyway, I've just signed it:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168657" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 11:13 am

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12285/full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
polling data released only weeks before the referendum and which suggested that nearly one in two Labour voters were unaware that Labour was advocating a Remain position.

Not-least because German-born UK citizen and Labour MP Gisela Stuart had been permitted to chair Vote Leave.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 11:15 am

The result of the 2016 referendum revealed a society which had, on the issues of EU membership and immigration, become divided by social class, generation and geography. The Leave campaign, which in the final weeks focused heavily on immigration, received its strongest support in the West Midlands (59.3 per cent), a historic bastion of eurosceptic and anti-immigration sentiment, followed by the East Midlands (58.8 per cent), the North-East (58 per cent), Yorkshire and the Humber (57.7 per cent) and Eastern England (56.5 per cent). The Leave campaign attracted its weakest support in Scotland (38 per cent), London (40.1 per cent) and Northern Ireland (44.2 per cent). Leave surpassed 70 per cent of the vote in 14 local authorities, many of which had been targeted by UKIP at previous local, European and general elections.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 11:28 am

Good morfternoon.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 11:59 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12285/full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
polling data released only weeks before the referendum and which suggested that nearly one in two Labour voters were unaware that Labour was advocating a Remain position.
Not-least because German-born UK citizen and Labour MP Gisela Stuart had been permitted to chair Vote Leave.

But the MAIN reason was that the media was almost solely interested in what right wing politicians had to say. Some people try to blame Corbyn for that, they are wrong.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 12:02 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12285/full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
polling data released only weeks before the referendum and which suggested that nearly one in two Labour voters were unaware that Labour was advocating a Remain position.
Not-least because German-born UK citizen and Labour MP Gisela Stuart had been permitted to chair Vote Leave.
But the MAIN reason was that the media was almost solely interested in what right wing politicians had to say. Some people try to blame Corbyn for that, they are wrong.

Don't disagree, but can't help feeling that a savvier (communications) strategy would have taken that into account.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 12:03 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12285/full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
polling data released only weeks before the referendum and which suggested that nearly one in two Labour voters were unaware that Labour was advocating a Remain position.
Not-least because German-born UK citizen and Labour MP Gisela Stuart had been permitted to chair Vote Leave.
But the MAIN reason was that the media was almost solely interested in what right wing politicians had to say. Some people try to blame Corbyn for that, they are wrong.

Cameron V Johnson (Boris, not Alan) was all's that mattered as far as the media were concerned.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 12:06 pm

We know that the British press is primarily right wing. The Guardian became unreadable in 2010 (anti-Brown story after story after story). The Independent seems less irritating than the rest though its sponsored content is alarming.

24 THINGS YOU MUST KNOW ABOUT BANANAS
(for example)

This is something that has faced any campaigning organization - how do they get their issues into the public domain beyond the already converted. They manage it from time to time and in different ways; Labour needs a communications strategy/ist that goes very very far beyond the mentality of someone from the G.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 12:14 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ety-crisis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prison officers' union dismisses pay rise as 'plaster over a wound'
Liz Truss’s plan to pay frontline staff in south-east jails up to £5,000 more will not help a system in meltdown, says union

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 12:23 pm

http://dpac.uk.net/2017/02/callout-peop ... challenge/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Callout for people in Southampton who have had social care packages cut for possible legal challenge

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 12:24 pm

First the National Giro Bank, then the Abbey National Building Society. Then the Portman Building Society. Now the Co-op Bank. I'm feeling persecuted.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 12:40 pm

A previous view on UBI/Finland

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... l-security" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Even in Finland, universal basic income is too good to be true
Declan Gaffney

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 12:41 pm

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2016/ ... knowledge/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Compulsory voting results in more evenly distributed political knowledge

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 12:44 pm

I think those that don't want to vote,should give to others,I've got 6,at the moment,although Norman Gnome's is in dispute.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 1:37 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12285/full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
polling data released only weeks before the referendum and which suggested that nearly one in two Labour voters were unaware that Labour was advocating a Remain position.
Not-least because German-born UK citizen and Labour MP Gisela Stuart had been permitted to chair Vote Leave.
But the MAIN reason was that the media was almost solely interested in what right wing politicians had to say. Some people try to blame Corbyn for that, they are wrong.

With his -40 ratings, he'd have got Remain over the line.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 1:45 pm

Were they that low before the coup? I don't think so.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 1:46 pm

I think they were pathetic, rather than crap.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 1:58 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Were they that low before the coup? I don't think so.

Blairite plotters and the media. The usual tired old excuses. They've been invoked for 10 years now. When does Labour try and win again in the world as it as, rather than in the world as it wishes it to be?

As for the coup, look at the chart

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A slow, consistent evaporation of support. No sudden downwards blip around the time of the 'coup'.

Any other leader would have quit with 85% of the party in Parliament declaring no confidence.

Corbyn's agenda is quite different from any other leader. His personal poll rating have always been terrible. Claiming that is down to the 'coup' is ridiculous.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 2:01 pm

Having chocolate Easter egg,part of a raffle prize,presumably before rationing.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 2:10 pm

Did you ?that is interesting,well not really but it provdes some respite from the Corbyn is evil,thing.Which of course,he is,he didn't equalise when he came on as substitute in the '73 Cup final.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 2:19 pm

How dare you order people as to what they can post.

Vote Blancmange.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 2:33 pm

Today's Observer Opinium poll and Corbyn drops eight points to -35.
It's the first poll since the Article 50 vote.

November 2016 -20
December 2016 -27
January 2017 -27
February 2017 -35

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 2:37 pm

Someone braver than me might wonder if Jez's stance over Article 50 voting has anything to do with the latest drop. Can't keep blaming chickens forever.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 2:37 pm

Hello, HindleA.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 2:53 pm

yahyah wrote:Today's Observer Opinium poll and Corbyn drops eight points to -35.
It's the first poll since the Article 50 vote.

November 2016 -20
December 2016 -27
January 2017 -27
February 2017 -35

The "Trump" relaunch won't have helped either. Note that this has all happened with MPs giving Corbyn enough rope.

He ought to do better now, with the NHS taking over from Brexit.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:00 pm

All EU peoples, orchestral gigs arranged in two days total, beginning to end, say, catch the train, you're live. Non-EU orchestra member documentation, visas take time and money. Months. Thousands in £ or € for each person. Non-EU orchestra members, athletes, entertainers of any kind require expensive visas, each of them, making economically impossible visiting EU countries right there, opportunity lost, snuffed, over, out. Don't get to play for others, others don't get to hear and see you live. The world is smaller.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:04 pm

Trump's made up some outrage that happened in Sweden "last night".

CNN was discussing just now if the Democrats are going too far.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:04 pm

HindleA wrote:How dare you order people as to what they can post.

Vote Blancmange.

Blancmange has been added to the list of decline-to-know-you.
Try getting Blancmange into Trumpia now, dude.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Trump's made up some outrage that happened in Sweden "last night".

CNN was discussing just now if the Democrats are going too far.

Own goal?

Donald Trump is right, there was a recent attack in Sweden. By neo-Nazis on a refugee centre
US President could have been referring to largely underreported 'politically motivated' incident in Gothenburg

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 88516.html

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:07 pm

That doesn't count. Neo-Nazis are created by multiculturalism, as Brendon O'Neill said, in those words.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:09 pm

Maybe someone will tell Trump about Norway and the seventy seven people murdered by Anders Breivik.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:11 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:That doesn't count. .

Alt Fact.

Neo-Nazis are created by multiculturalism, as Brendon O'Neill said, in those words.

Alt Fact.

Two alt facts make a fact.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:25 pm

Oh look, "the referendum outcome was Labour's fault", again.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 3:26 pm

Where's that post ?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 4:02 pm

Donald Trump is May's pal, and alternative to Europe.

She should be made to wince by the Opposition every time he embarrasses himself. Nah, Brexit means Brexit.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 4:29 pm

Any word from James Duddridge? Surely, "Get Bercow!" hasn't died on its arse following more evidence he was dead right, has it?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 4:48 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ate-change" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Australia’s new normal … as city temperatures hit 47C people shelter from the deadly heat
In Sydney’s baking suburbs, fans have sold out – and fears about the effects of climate change are mounting

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 5:09 pm

Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ate-change
Australia’s new normal … as city temperatures hit 47C people shelter from the deadly heat
In Sydney’s baking suburbs, fans have sold out – and fears about the effects of climate change are mounting

Same as gas mark 1 apparently.

Influences my vote.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 5:54 pm

Many comments below this article are worthwhile reading. They're (probably) real people, their comment histories are consistent.

EU citizens living in the UK could face legal limbo after Brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tain-chaos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK immigration laws have changed a lot within a short period of time. Tory government on their seventh, disaster leadership year. They don't know or seek understanding about this kind of thing. They're not born to rule. People continuing work, pension entitlements, housing commitments, proving citizenship(s) practical, legal entitlements requiring sorting out and there's an absurd Tory government where Labour government should be.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 5:58 pm

NEW REALITY
The Screwed Generation Turns Socialist
The Depression and WWII shaped the greatest generation, and postwar prosperity shaped the Baby Boomers. Millennials, battered by capitalism, move ever leftward.
Joel Kotkin

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... =DDMorning

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 6:07 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Any word from James Duddridge? Surely, "Get Bercow!" hasn't died on its arse following more evidence he was dead right, has it?

Memo from HM to palace chef:
"Donny's coming to dinner tomorrow. I fancy a middle eastern menu for a change. Failing that, Mexican will do".

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 6:17 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Any word from James Duddridge? Surely, "Get Bercow!" hasn't died on its arse following more evidence he was dead right, has it?
Memo from HM to palace chef:
"Donny's coming to dinner tomorrow. I fancy a middle eastern menu for a change. Failing that, Mexican will do".

Not Swedish meatballs (accent on the balls)?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 6:18 pm

Eric - what do you make of this ?

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/second-sc ... ng-called/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not sure our collective nerves will be able to stand another slog it out independence referendum.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 19 Feb, 2017 6:18 pm

Ha ha.

I'm wondering when we'll here from Norman Fowler as speaker of the Lords. Does he want Trump, or does he agree with Bercow?