Tuesday, 18th April 2017

[RogerOThornhill]

Peter Walker‏Verified account @peterwalker99 38m38 minutes ago
More
PM's spokesman said Manchester Gorton byelection will still take place. But that would be a day after parliament dissolved for election..

To me that seems utterly pointless now.

[PorFavor]

Apart from principled supporters of other parties (Tem for example) I would ask who will be voting to ensure the best opportunity of defeating the Tories......will people vote for Labour even if Corbyn led?

Of course I'll vote Labour. (Although it's usually pretty fruitless here, regardless of the leader.)

[Willow904]

I think people are just being realistic.

The polls aren't hopeful. Even if they are 3 or 4 points out, the Tories still win more seats than they have now. AK is too optimistic that we'll lose the worst of the PLP, as well, we could easily lose some of the better new MPs, leaving Labour even less able to move forward past the New Labour/Old Labour impasse that we have now.

Edited: supposed to be a reply to howsillyofme.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Unbelievable Labour aren't going to make calling the General Election contentious. Looks like a nice serene run to a big majority.

Or could the election frauds blow up?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Would genuinely be interested on exactly when, and why, May decided on this.

I do actually think that when she ruled out an early GE in the past, she meant it (at the time)

Of course the polls are a factor, but maybe her mind wasn't finally made up until the weekend? Saw what Erdogan did in Turkey and thought "I'd like a bit of that?"

Well, its up to US to prevent it.......

[NonOxCol]

It'll be the whole "unity in Westminster" thing that gives me insomnia tonight.

She is a shabby little autocrat in the vanguard of a right-wing coup so obvious it makes the Star Wars prequels look subtle. Paul Dacre's wet dream made flesh. I'd vote for any party that had a chance of stopping the Tories, which where I live means Labour. Albeit with less enthusiasm than even 2005.

However I am not at all optimistic: my MP had a majority of about 500 in 2010 and 4,000 in 2015, and I think our constituency was 60-65% Leave.

[PorFavor]

And I've run out of cigarettes. That's on top of being informed, yesterday, that my brand is no longer available.

(I'm not blaming Jeremy Corbyn, by the way.)

[PorFavor]

Would genuinely be interested on exactly when, and why, May decided on this.

I do actually think that when she ruled out an early GE in the past, she meant it (at the time)

Of course the polls are a factor, but maybe her mind wasn't finally made up until the weekend? Saw what Erdogan did in Turkey and thought "I'd like a bit of that?"

Well, its up to US to prevent it.......

Turkey has been much on my mind, too.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Vote Farron, Get Corbyn.

What are the LDs going to do about that? Say they'd only support Labour if Corbyn resigned?

Tricky basis for a pre election pact though.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Would genuinely be interested on exactly when, and why, May decided on this.

I do actually think that when she ruled out an early GE in the past, she meant it (at the time)

Of course the polls are a factor, but maybe her mind wasn't finally made up until the weekend? Saw what Erdogan did in Turkey and thought "I'd like a bit of that?"

Well, its up to US to prevent it.......

Turkey has been much on my mind, too.

Two things, a worry somebody will cull her free pass before she can use it. A 140 majority and two years of delay before the next election, versus a tight race in 2020 as Brexit bites.

But mainly her majority is too small to handle the huge convulsions the inevitable EU deals will involve. The first thing is to sign off that EU bill, which she won't be able to do with her current majority.

[HindleA]

PF ,I didn't know you were a smoker.I am fortunate in having an organised team of suppliers added to the fact it costs me nothing,barring the occasional(as usually tobacco drums)purchase of papers multipack style,have noticed they have reduced number of papers in each,bastards.My Phd was in the never ending roll up theory,I have made musings on parts of the various techniques involved,here previously.You can PM for further information.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Unbelievable Labour aren't going to make calling the General Election contentious. Looks like a nice serene run to a big majority.

Or could the election frauds blow up?

Well, you know, this might be a job for that thing we call "the media"??

But they are, overwhelmingly, craven power worshippers/dim stenographers/chortling cynics. They bear a great deal of blame for where we are now.

[gilsey]

@AK
You're not going to leave us now, are you? Please?

[NonOxCol]

It's almost hard to believe TE didn't write this as a parody:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gilsey]

This is it, people. We have a chance to get Tory government gone. It can happen.

If we don't it will be a very long time before there is another chance.

But not as long as it would have been if tories had stuck it out and won, as was likely, in 2020. We'll now have another chance by 2022, rather than 2025.
Seizing on any tiny point of optimism here.

[StephenDolan]

The Lib Dems would win their marginals back presumably?

[gilsey]

I think Labour's position re Brexit is very difficult indeed, because it is complicated. I'm prepared to give Starmer credit for understanding both the situation and Labour's proposed response, but explaining it in words of one syllable is virtually impossible.

Jon Moulton says it's more complicated than he realised.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
How clever these clever people are.

[TechnicalEphemera]

It's almost hard to believe TE didn't write this as a parody:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I won't send you the facebook pro Corbyn campaign talking about 172 red Tory Neo Zionists.

There are some deeply bonkers people out there.

[AnatolyKasparov]

@AK
You're not going to leave us now, are you? Please?

Heh, I didn't really pick the best time for a flounce did I

Some good news on the "scum/garbage" front, though - Tom "blocked" Blenkinsop is standing down.

As is Alan Johnson - whilst I wouldn't put him in that category (voted for him as deputy in 2007, after all) maybe he can apologise for that dismal "LabourIn" campaign now?

[PorFavor]

Partly because Corbyn/Labour have in the past said that they would welcome an early GE?

(in the expectation it wouldn't actually happen, I suspect)

Minds, and circumstances, change, though. (See Theresa May.)

[pressureuk]

Morning.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thread combining Brexit xenophobia with state of the NHS, just to cheer everyone up after Easter...

Do you have a summary of that thread? Their tweets are now protected.

[RogerOThornhill]

I see the rubbish disposal unit is working as efficiently as ever.

[StephenDolan]

Partly because Corbyn/Labour have in the past said that they would welcome an early GE?

(in the expectation it wouldn't actually happen, I suspect)

Minds, and circumstances, change, though. (See Theresa May.)

Naked opportunism you mean.

[Tubby Isaacs]

It's almost hard to believe TE didn't write this as a parody:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I won't send you the facebook pro Corbyn campaign talking about 172 red Tory Neo Zionists.

There are some deeply bonkers people out there.

Taylor Parkes has flagged that lot up before. Full of anti-Semites.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Vote Farron, Get Corbyn.

What are the LDs going to do about that? Say they'd only support Labour if Corbyn resigned?

Tricky basis for a pre election pact though.

Yeah. Not that I particularly rate pacts. But Corbyn makes them much harder to happen.

[Tubby Isaacs]

The Lib Dems would win their marginals back presumably?

Possibly a couple but they're too far back in most.

[AnatolyKasparov]

They were quite a long way back in Richmond, too.

[Willow904]

The Tories took some Libdem seats on huge swings in 2015. Surely not impossible for them to swing back? The Libdems had held some seats in the West Country since 1992. A few are in remain voting areas. Hard to say how easily the Tories will hold them.

[PorFavor]

Partly because Corbyn/Labour have in the past said that they would welcome an early GE?

(in the expectation it wouldn't actually happen, I suspect)

Minds, and circumstances, change, though. (See Theresa May.)

Naked opportunism you mean.

Quite.

[AnatolyKasparov]

A certain DPJ Hodges has confirmed that they will vote Tory if there is an early GE.

And he's trying to blame "Corbyn supporters" for his decision.

The total scumbag piece of s***

[Temulkar]

Stanley Baldwin...

[StephenDolan]

A certain DPJ Hodges has confirmed that they will vote Tory if there is an early GE.

And he's trying to blame "Corbyn supporters" for his decision.

The total scumbag piece of s***

A mean boy made me cry and vote for May. Sob.

[HindleA]

@howsilly

"I would ask who will be voting to ensure the best opportunity of defeating the Tories......will people vote for Labour even if Corbyn led?"

Well,locally-and I'm outraged that apparently people are suggesting actively undermining Labour-at the obvious consequent risk of diminished lives,prospects,and base misanthropy caused by a return to Tory maladministration here and others pay as a "strategy",clearly continued Labour control is ever more important,now.
MP wise never been anything else but Labour,but now a marginal-so again gathering as many postal votes as possible to hopefully keep that the case.I don't pretend to have any principles beyond I bear in mind a Party supported by the likes of insult to faecal matter rusty as an example of their more reasonable contingent.We have a representative democracy and seriously don't obsess,think about Corbyn in voting terms because I am not voting/or not for him.

[howsillyofme1]

@howsilly

"I would ask who will be voting to ensure the best opportunity of defeating the Tories......will people vote for Labour even if Corbyn led?"

Well,locally-and I'm outraged that apparently people are suggesting actively undermining Labour-at the obvious consequent risk of diminished lives,prospects,and base misanthropy caused by a return to Tory maladministration here and others pay as a "strategy",clearly continued Labour control is ever more important,now.
MP wise never been anything else but Labour,but now a marginal-so again gathering as many postal votes as possible to hopefully keep that the case.I don't pretend to have any principles beyond I bear in mind a Party supported by the likes of insult to faecal matter rusty as an example of their more reasonable contingent.We have a representative democracy and seriously don't obsess,think about Corbyn in voting terms because I am not voting/or not for him.

A candidate for Post of the Day Mr A.......thank you

[TechnicalEphemera]

@howsilly

"I would ask who will be voting to ensure the best opportunity of defeating the Tories......will people vote for Labour even if Corbyn led?"

Well,locally-and I'm outraged that apparently people are suggesting actively undermining Labour-at the obvious consequent risk of diminished lives,prospects,and base misanthropy caused by a return to Tory maladministration here and others pay as a "strategy",clearly continued Labour control is ever more important,now.
MP wise never been anything else but Labour,but now a marginal-so again gathering as many postal votes as possible to hopefully keep that the case.I don't pretend to have any principles beyond I bear in mind a Party supported by the likes of insult to faecal matter rusty as an example of their more reasonable contingent.We have a representative democracy and seriously don't obsess,think about Corbyn in voting terms because I am not voting/or not for him.

Between 30-50% of Labour 2015 voters have walked away, new voters have come in but nowhere near enough.

You can't blame the electorate for rejecting the menu. The odd disgruntled Labour member is statistically insignificant.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

I am about to post the most ridiculous email I have ever received.

Come on guys we can defeat this crock of!

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Dear Paul,

The Prime Minister has just announced that a General Election will be held on 8 June - and that we will shortly take the necessary steps in Parliament to ensure that this can happen.
We need this election now to secure the strong and stable leadership the country needs to see us through Brexit and beyond.
Every vote cast for Theresa May and the Conservatives will strengthen Britain’s hand in the Brexit negotiations.
We will stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain and take the right long-term decisions for a more secure future.
The choice is between strong and stable leadership in the national interest with Theresa May and the Conservatives – or weak and unstable coalition government led by Jeremy Corbyn.
We need an election because:

It will strengthen the Prime Minister’s negotiating hand in Europe. Division in Westminster, and the Government’s small majority, risks weakening your Government’s hand in its negotiations with Europe.

It is the only way to ensure we have strong leadership, certainty and stability. An election now will give the country stability and certainty for a full five years, not just up to the point at which we leave the European Union but beyond it too.

And we do need an election now:

We have a one-off chance to hold an election while the European Union agrees its negotiating position and before the detailed talks begin. This decision cannot be delayed and needs to happen now. That is the only way to end the uncertainty the other parties are causing.

If we don’t have an election, we will have uncertainty and instability. The negotiations will reach their most difficult stage in the run-up to the next scheduled General Election. Division in Westminster will risk our ability to make a success of Brexit and cause uncertainty and instability.

We have the right plan for negotiating with Europe. The Government will negotiate a deep and special partnership between a strong and successful European Union and a United Kingdom that is free to chart its own way in the world. That means we will regain control of our own money, our own laws, and our own borders – and we will be free to strike trade deals with old friends and new partners all around the world. The result will be a more secure future for our country and a better deal for you.

But our plan is opposed by the other parties. The country is coming together, but Westminster is still divided. In recent weeks, Labour have threatened to vote against the final agreement we reach with the European Union. The Liberal Democrats have said they want to “grind” the business of government “to a standstill”. The Scottish National Party say they will vote against the legislation that formally repeals Britain’s membership of the European Union. And unelected members of the House of Lords have vowed to fight us every step of the way. All the other parties are doing is playing political games and causing uncertainty about the future.

We will stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain. Only Theresa May has the plan and the proven leadership to deliver the right deal for Britain abroad and a better deal for ordinary, working people here at home.

We will stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain and:

Establish Britain as the strongest country in Europe, in economic growth and national security. We will negotiate a deep and special partnership with our European neighbours. We will strike export deals for British goods and services. And we will lead the world in preventing terrorism and fighting modern slavery.

Build a stronger economy that rewards people who work hard and creates secure and well-paid jobs. We will make sure there is growth and prosperity around the whole country.

Provide real opportunity for all. We will give everyone a chance to get on in life, by building enough affordable housing and making sure there is a good school place for every child.

Build a more secure and united nation by taking action against the extremists who try to divide our society and standing up to the separatists who want to break up our country.
But we will also take the right long-term decisions for a more secure future. We will build on the good work we have done and stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain. But, from the productivity of our economy to the need for a world-class system of social care, we will tackle head-on the long-term challenges we face as a country.

Theresa May is a strong leader who puts the national interest first and gets things done. When she became Prime Minister after the referendum, the priority was to provide economic certainty, a clear vision and strong leadership – and that’s what she delivered. She has also delivered on the mandate from the referendum, and begun the process through which Britain will leave the EU. Now she needs your support to lead Britain through the next five years and give the country the certainty and stability we all need.

You can only get the strong leadership the country needs by voting for Theresa May and your local Conservative candidate. A vote for any other party risks Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister, propped up in coalition by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, and the Liberal Democrats who just want to re-open the divisions of the referendum.

The choice facing the country at this election is all about leadership. The choice in this election is strong and stable leadership in the national interest with Theresa May and the Conservatives – or weak and unstable coalition government, led by Jeremy Corbyn.

[pk1]

Oh for FUCK'S SAKE PISS OFF.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm afraid that I'm now feeling that way about Jeremy Corbyn, too.

My initial reaction was YES - finally we'd get rid of Corbyn.

But there's also the reality that we'll be faced with losing some damn good Labour MPs

Soul destroying

[howsillyofme1]

@howsilly

"I would ask who will be voting to ensure the best opportunity of defeating the Tories......will people vote for Labour even if Corbyn led?"

Well,locally-and I'm outraged that apparently people are suggesting actively undermining Labour-at the obvious consequent risk of diminished lives,prospects,and base misanthropy caused by a return to Tory maladministration here and others pay as a "strategy",clearly continued Labour control is ever more important,now.
MP wise never been anything else but Labour,but now a marginal-so again gathering as many postal votes as possible to hopefully keep that the case.I don't pretend to have any principles beyond I bear in mind a Party supported by the likes of insult to faecal matter rusty as an example of their more reasonable contingent.We have a representative democracy and seriously don't obsess,think about Corbyn in voting terms because I am not voting/or not for him.

Between 30-50% of Labour 2015 voters have walked away, new voters have come in but nowhere near enough.

You can't blame the electorate for rejecting the menu. The odd disgruntled Labour member is statistically insignificant.

I most can certainly blame the bloody electorate for voting for Tory incompetents......Cameron and May

Why is the Labour menu worse than the Tory one?

You really have let hatred of Corbyn lose you any vestige of credibility.....your posts are indistinguishable from our friend Rusty's

Perhaps go for a lie down and come back when you have calmed down a bit

[howsillyofme1]

Some people on here seem more intent of getting rid of the leader than taking the fight to the Tories

I never even considered doing that even under Kinnock or Blair...

[pk1]

Alan Johnson is not standing

Edit: just seen AK has already mentioned it.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Please friends, comrades just read the drivel that the Tories have just sent to all their supporters [above] and see how easy it is to oppose if we work together.

[Temulkar]

Oh for FUCK'S SAKE PISS OFF.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm afraid that I'm now feeling that way about Jeremy Corbyn, too.

My initial reaction was YES - finally we'd get rid of Corbyn.

But there's also the reality that we'll be faced with losing some damn good Labour MPs

Soul destroying

You'll be voting Tory then?

[Willow904]

My initial reaction was YES - finally we'd get rid of Corbyn.

But there's also the reality that we'll be faced with losing some damn good Labour MPs

Soul destroying

You'll be voting Tory then?

Does it matter what any of us here vote, when so many voters have made it clear they won't be returning a Labour government any time soon?

Unless you can see an advantage for Labour in going to the polls now, while Brexit fervour has the Tories on a temporary high, as opposed to 2020 when deepening economic malaise will give Labour a better chance to come back at them?

A slim majority made it possible to put some pressure on the Tories over the Brexit negotiations. Unless you believe Labour under Corbyn in this moment in time won't lose any seats, this can only be viewed as bad news for anyone fearing the fallout from a Tory hard Brexit.

[pk1]

Would genuinely be interested on exactly when, and why, May decided on this.

I do actually think that when she ruled out an early GE in the past, she meant it (at the time)

Of course the polls are a factor, but maybe her mind wasn't finally made up until the weekend? Saw what Erdogan did in Turkey and thought "I'd like a bit of that?"

Well, its up to US to prevent it.......

Last week when she was walking in Wales, according to Faisal Islam on Sky News

[Willow904]

“Hope for the Best. Expect the worst. Life is a play. We're unrehearsed.”

It's easier to bear that way. Cynicism is a form of self-defense.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

My initial reaction was YES - finally we'd get rid of Corbyn.

But there's also the reality that we'll be faced with losing some damn good Labour MPs

Soul destroying

You'll be voting Tory then?

Does it matter what any of us here vote, when so many voters have made it clear they won't be returning a Labour government any time soon?

Unless you can see an advantage for Labour in going to the polls now, while Brexit fervour has the Tories on a temporary high, as opposed to 2020 when deepening economic malaise will give Labour a better chance to come back at them?

A slim majority made it possible to put some pressure on the Tories over the Brexit negotiations. Unless you believe Labour under Corbyn in this moment in time won't lose any seats, this can only be viewed as bad news for anyone fearing the fallout from a Tory hard Brexit.

I'm surprised anyone feels any uncertainty about the next two months.

What if the election fraud thing does blow up a week before the election?

What if, what if.....

There are no certainties any more. Folk should just go out and campaign for and vote for what they believe in. Full stop. No second guessing results. We've never had this.

Sorry Willow this isn't directed at you it just came out in my reply

[AnatolyKasparov]

Would genuinely be interested on exactly when, and why, May decided on this.

I do actually think that when she ruled out an early GE in the past, she meant it (at the time)

Of course the polls are a factor, but maybe her mind wasn't finally made up until the weekend? Saw what Erdogan did in Turkey and thought "I'd like a bit of that?"

Well, its up to US to prevent it.......

Last week when she was walking in Wales, according to Faisal Islam on Sky News

Bridge for sale if you believe THAT

[HindleA]

TE a bit confused,I merely outlined my position as to how I will vote.I made no comment otherwise,unless I was unclear in my rejection of apparent suggests by some to deliberately undermine the vote and thus in our case risking potential privatisation or might as well be of in house care teams as but one example of a return to Tory maladministration for a deemed ".better cause"

[pk1]

You'll be voting Tory then?

No but it matters not because in this seat, they weigh the blue vote. It's been blue since the day it was created.

I do at least vote Labour to try & get rid of the Cons - more than can be said for some.