Tuesday, 18th April 2017

[pk1]

Would genuinely be interested on exactly when, and why, May decided on this.

I do actually think that when she ruled out an early GE in the past, she meant it (at the time)

Of course the polls are a factor, but maybe her mind wasn't finally made up until the weekend? Saw what Erdogan did in Turkey and thought "I'd like a bit of that?"

Well, its up to US to prevent it.......

Last week when she was walking in Wales, according to Faisal Islam on Sky News

Bridge for sale if you believe THAT

Why ask if all you're going to do is sneer at the response ? I'm not claiming it - merely reporting what a journalist has said.

[AnatolyKasparov]

I'm asking for some believable conjecture, not just totally transparent spin.

(to be clear, that is directed at May's obviously risible claim - not at you)

Apparently, it has also been confirmed that the Manchester Gorton byelection has been cancelled (though other polls on May 4 are going ahead as planned)

[Temulkar]

You'll be voting Tory then?

No but it matters not because in this seat, they weigh the blue vote. It's been blue since the day it was created.

I do at least vote Labour to try & get rid of the Cons - more than can be said for some.

If I was in a marginal I would - and did - vote for the best option to keep tories out. I have the luxury of voting in a safe labour seat now.

[pk1]

@GlenMitchell1

Labour have confirmed that they have cancelled #gortonbyelection in light of #GeneralElection 5 weeks later.

[SpinningHugo]

A brilliant political coup. She misdirected everyone.

The right thing to do of course. She'll be given a much larger majority, of between 50 and 75, and no longer be a hostage of the nutjobs in her own party.

As I kept saying, the FtPA provides no real obstacle (contra one RoT).

As we all know the result, what is most interesting is the aftermath, particularly for Labour. Will this shorten or embed the Corbyn transformation?

[AnatolyKasparov]

@GlenMitchell1

Labour have confirmed that they have cancelled #gortonbyelection in light of #GeneralElection 5 weeks later.

"Labour" haven't done any such thing, it isn't in their power to.

[SpinningHugo]

Unbelievable Labour aren't going to make calling the General Election contentious. Looks like a nice serene run to a big majority.

Or could the election frauds blow up?

Well, you know, this might be a job for that thing we call "the media"??

But they are, overwhelmingly, craven power worshippers/dim stenographers/chortling cynics. They bear a great deal of blame for where we are now.

How many MPs do the media have?

[PaulfromYorkshire]

A brilliant political coup. She misdirected everyone.

The right thing to do of course. She'll be given a much larger majority, of between 50 and 75, and no longer be a hostage of the nutjobs in her own party.

As I kept saying, the FtPA provides no real obstacle (contra one RoT).

As we all know the result, what is most interesting is the aftermath, particularly for Labour. Will this shorten or embed the Corbyn transformation?

[SpinningHugo]

Some people on here seem more intent of getting rid of the leader than taking the fight to the Tories

I never even considered doing that even under Kinnock or Blair...

There are no Tories on this board (unless you count Rusty). I am not sure hpw many votes there would be won by endless "The Tories are Shit" posts.

Vote Green, BTW.

[SpinningHugo]

The people in the most difficult position are the large cohort of Labour MPs who weren't going to stand again. Many will have been planning to leave politics in 3 years time, not now. What do they do?

[Willow904]

The people in the most difficult position are the large cohort of Labour MPs who weren't going to stand again. Many will have been planning to leave politics in 3 years time, not now. What do they do?

Get a job?

Seriously, I doubt even they are too bothered about leaving a couple of years early, let alone anyone else. Is this really one of the first things you thought of on hearing the announcement of a GE in June?

[RogerOThornhill]

As I kept saying, the FtPA provides no real obstacle (contra one RoT).

Not quite - I seem to recall saying that an early election could be called if some maneuvering was carried out. And so it's proved - unless you don't think asking the Commons to vote for an early GE counts as such?

If Labour hadn't consistently said they would welcome one we'd be up for the spectacle of May having to ask her backbenchers to vote down the government.

I admit to not thinking that it would happen.

*shrugs*

[SpinningHugo]

As I kept saying, the FtPA provides no real obstacle (contra one RoT).

Not quite - I seem to recall saying that an early election could be called if some maneuvering was carried out. And so it's proved - unless you don't think asking the Commons to vote for an early GE counts as such?

If Labour hadn't consistently said they would welcome one we'd be up for the spectacle of May having to ask her backbenchers to vote down the government.

I admit to not thinking that it would happen.

*shrugs*

She called one. It is happening. That is it.

I'll leave you to judge how vindicated you are.

[AnatolyKasparov]

The people in the most difficult position are the large cohort of Labour MPs who weren't going to stand again. Many will have been planning to leave politics in 3 years time, not now. What do they do?

They can do that now, and make way for people who actually want to do the job?

Crazy mad loony left idea, I know.......

[RogerOThornhill]

Hugo, I really don't give a shit.

Do try and remember you're not in court and have to score points all the time. Nobody cares.

[pk1]

@GlenMitchell1

Labour have confirmed that they have cancelled #gortonbyelection in light of #GeneralElection 5 weeks later.

"Labour" haven't done any such thing, it isn't in their power to.

Pointless posting here when my every report of someone else's comment is being ridiculed by you.

[AnatolyKasparov]

I'm ridiculing THEM, not you!!

Jeez, how many times do I have to say it??

[RogerOThornhill]

Yes, it's only the returning officer that can cancel the by-election.

Peter Walker‏Verified account @peterwalker99 1h1 hour ago
More
David Lidington tells Commons it's up to returning officer whether Gorton byelection takes place, but it was called off in last similar case

[seeingclearly]

He could sack Watson and appoint Ed as deputy. There a lot of people who rue not voting for Ed in 2015.

But but mandate, as I keep hearing about Corbyn.

Theres plenty'd be glad to se Watson go.

[citizenJA]

Morning.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thread combining Brexit xenophobia with state of the NHS, just to cheer everyone up after Easter...

Do you have a summary of that thread? Their tweets are now protected.

Howdy

[seeingclearly]

Some people on here seem more intent of getting rid of the leader than taking the fight to the Tories

I never even considered doing that even under Kinnock or Blair...

There are no Tories on this board (unless you count Rusty). I am not sure hpw many votes there would be won by endless "The Tories are Shit" posts.

Vote Green, BTW.

What makes you think anyone will do that because you say so? Waste a vote? **** that.

[citizenJA]

@howsilly

"I would ask who will be voting to ensure the best opportunity of defeating the Tories......will people vote for Labour even if Corbyn led?"

Well,locally-and I'm outraged that apparently people are suggesting actively undermining Labour-at the obvious consequent risk of diminished lives,prospects,and base misanthropy caused by a return to Tory maladministration here and others pay as a "strategy",clearly continued Labour control is ever more important,now.
MP wise never been anything else but Labour,but now a marginal-so again gathering as many postal votes as possible to hopefully keep that the case.I don't pretend to have any principles beyond I bear in mind a Party supported by the likes of insult to faecal matter rusty as an example of their more reasonable contingent.We have a representative democracy and seriously don't obsess,think about Corbyn in voting terms because I am not voting/or not for him.

A candidate for Post of the Day Mr A.......thank you

Well said, HindleA
Sums up my own thoughts

[Willow904]

Morning.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thread combining Brexit xenophobia with state of the NHS, just to cheer everyone up after Easter...

Do you have a summary of that thread? Their tweets are now protected.

Howdy

Yes, hello to pressureuk.

[citizenJA]

Please friends, comrades just read the drivel that the Tories have just sent to all their supporters [above] and see how easy it is to oppose if we work together.

Hear hear

[PorFavor]

The people in the most difficult position are the large cohort of Labour MPs who weren't going to stand again. Many will have been planning to leave politics in 3 years time, not now. What do they do?

Get a job?

Seriously, I doubt even they are too bothered about leaving a couple of years early, let alone anyone else. Is this really one of the first things you thought of on hearing the announcement of a GE in June?

I've been hearing that MPs planning to retire (for age reasons) at the General Election (as was) are now feeling that they have to review their plans because of the current situation.

[seeingclearly]

A brilliant political coup. She misdirected everyone.

The right thing to do of course. She'll be given a much larger majority, of between 50 and 75, and no longer be a hostage of the nutjobs in her own party.

As I kept saying, the FtPA provides no real obstacle (contra one RoT).

As we all know the result, what is most interesting is the aftermath, particularly for Labour. Will this shorten or embed the Corbyn transformation?

She might be good at strategy but she is a truly crap politician. Name one beneficial thing she has done? Name ANYTHING she has done since becoming PM. She has only rubber-stamped the decisions of others.

A coup just about sums it up, I thought those hats looked a bit triumphal. Frankly the British people could do better. Perhaps a better question might be, one way or another will it become visible that the gloves are off?

I am of course aware of all the apparel references. But this is a powerplay, so very appropriate. You might also consider what the hats and gloves etc. are covering up. (But then you don't care do you..... but some of us who have seen and understood the devastation taking place do.)

I wonder if it will suffice for the CPS?

[seeingclearly]

This is it, people. We have a chance to get Tory government gone. It can happen.

If we don't it will be a very long time before there is another chance.

But not as long as it would have been if tories had stuck it out and won, as was likely, in 2020. We'll now have another chance by 2022, rather than 2025.
Seizing on any tiny point of optimism here.

On the other hand who knows what things will look like then. Time for voters to look beyond their noses and see where their decisions are heading. In terms of the current scenario Corbyn looks sane. Very sane.

[SpinningHugo]

A brilliant political coup. She misdirected everyone.

The right thing to do of course. She'll be given a much larger majority, of between 50 and 75, and no longer be a hostage of the nutjobs in her own party.

As I kept saying, the FtPA provides no real obstacle (contra one RoT).

As we all know the result, what is most interesting is the aftermath, particularly for Labour. Will this shorten or embed the Corbyn transformation?

She might be good at strategy but she is a truly crap politician. Name one beneficial thing she has done? Name ANYTHING she has done since becoming PM. She has only rubber-stamped the decisions of others.

A coup just about sums it up, I thought those hats looked a bit triumphal. Frankly the British people could do better. Perhaps a better question might be, one way or another will it become visible that the gloves are off?

I am of course aware of all the apparel references. But this is a powerplay, so very appropriate. You might also consider what the hats and gloves etc. are covering up. (But then you don't care do you..... but some of us who have seen and understood the devastation taking place do.)

I wonder if it will suffice for the CPS?

I can't of course. I am no Tory. She was a terrible Home Secretary. (The one and only thing I can think to say in her favour is that she did respect the rule of law, even where decrying things like the HRA.)

But, in terms of political skill, you have to admire it. Nobody thought she would,\ do it and she is. All the superficial obstacles like the FtPA proved to be irrelevant. It now looks like the obvious choice.

If only Brown had shown the same skill, how differently things would have turned out.

[SpinningHugo]

The Real Fight Starts Now!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... 8ec795?iqk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PaulfromYorkshire]

The Real Fight Starts Now!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... 8ec795?iqk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the piece you link

But at the emergency meeting of the NEC, Corbyn is set to insist on the long-held procedure that MPs will have to subject themselves to a ballot in their constituency Labour party, sources said.

You and others are just shit stirring aren't you?

Why pretend otherwise?

[My emphasis]

[seeingclearly]

It's almost hard to believe TE didn't write this as a parody:

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I won't send you the facebook pro Corbyn campaign talking about 172 red Tory Neo Zionists.

There are some deeply bonkers people out there.

Probably 16 year old chemtrail enthusiasts laughing their heads off.

[SpinningHugo]

The Real Fight Starts Now!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... 8ec795?iqk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the piece you link

But at the emergency meeting of the NEC, Corbyn is set to insist on the long-held procedure that MPs will have to subject themselves to a ballot in their constituency Labour party, sources said.

You and others are just shit stirring aren't you?

Why pretend otherwise?

[My emphasis]

You think it will happen then?

I don't, I think Corbyn will lose on the NEC.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

The Real Fight Starts Now!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... 8ec795?iqk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From the piece you link

But at the emergency meeting of the NEC, Corbyn is set to insist on the long-held procedure that MPs will have to subject themselves to a ballot in their constituency Labour party, sources said.

You and others are just shit stirring aren't you?

Why pretend otherwise?

[My emphasis]

You think it will happen then?

I don't, I think Corbyn will lose on the NEC.

Corbyn will say established procedures should be followed, just like he always does. The NEC will do what it will. Corbyn will accept the result.

And concern trolls will carry on concern trolling while the UK goes to hell on a handcart.

[SpinningHugo]

New Ipsos-MORI poll has
CON 44
LAB 23
LD 12
UKIP 10

New ICM
Con: 46% (+2)
Lab: 25% (-1)
LD: 11% (+ 1)
UKIP: 8% (-3)
Green: 4% (n/c)

These aren't saying anything we didn't already know, but this is why May has done this. All consistent with ComRes and Yougov

I suppose the reason this has not happened in the past is

1. the usual midterm slump hasn't happened. The government has never before improved its position so quickly

and

2. the Brexit excuse is too good.

BUT, the odds on a hung Parliament are 5/1

Before GE 2015 the odds on a Tory majority were 8/1.

So, I suppose there is hope of an upset.

(Bizarrely, the odds of a LibDem majority are the same as a Labour majority, 25/1

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/br ... government" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

)

I'd also expect considerable narrowing over the next 7 weeks. I can't see the Tories being 21 points ahead on polling day.

[AnatolyKasparov]

We don't even know if this rumour is from the Corbyn "camp", tbh. It could well be hostile spin from one of his opponents.

(who would doubtless prefer sitting candidates to be imposed en masse using the "lack of time" excuse, rather than undergoing any scrutiny at all)

[seeingclearly]

Dear Paul,

The Prime Minister has just announced that a General Election will be held on 8 June - and that we will shortly take the necessary steps in Parliament to ensure that this can happen.
We need this election now to secure the strong and stable leadership the country needs to see us through Brexit and beyond.
Every vote cast for Theresa May and the Conservatives will strengthen Britain’s hand in the Brexit negotiations.
We will stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain and take the right long-term decisions for a more secure future.
The choice is between strong and stable leadership in the national interest with Theresa May and the Conservatives – or weak and unstable coalition government led by Jeremy Corbyn.
We need an election because:

It will strengthen the Prime Minister’s negotiating hand in Europe. Division in Westminster, and the Government’s small majority, risks weakening your Government’s hand in its negotiations with Europe.

It is the only way to ensure we have strong leadership, certainty and stability. An election now will give the country stability and certainty for a full five years, not just up to the point at which we leave the European Union but beyond it too.

And we do need an election now:

We have a one-off chance to hold an election while the European Union agrees its negotiating position and before the detailed talks begin. This decision cannot be delayed and needs to happen now. That is the only way to end the uncertainty the other parties are causing.

If we don’t have an election, we will have uncertainty and instability. The negotiations will reach their most difficult stage in the run-up to the next scheduled General Election. Division in Westminster will risk our ability to make a success of Brexit and cause uncertainty and instability.

We have the right plan for negotiating with Europe. The Government will negotiate a deep and special partnership between a strong and successful European Union and a United Kingdom that is free to chart its own way in the world. That means we will regain control of our own money, our own laws, and our own borders – and we will be free to strike trade deals with old friends and new partners all around the world. The result will be a more secure future for our country and a better deal for you.

But our plan is opposed by the other parties. The country is coming together, but Westminster is still divided. In recent weeks, Labour have threatened to vote against the final agreement we reach with the European Union. The Liberal Democrats have said they want to “grind” the business of government “to a standstill”. The Scottish National Party say they will vote against the legislation that formally repeals Britain’s membership of the European Union. And unelected members of the House of Lords have vowed to fight us every step of the way. All the other parties are doing is playing political games and causing uncertainty about the future.

We will stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain. Only Theresa May has the plan and the proven leadership to deliver the right deal for Britain abroad and a better deal for ordinary, working people here at home.

We will stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain and:

Establish Britain as the strongest country in Europe, in economic growth and national security. We will negotiate a deep and special partnership with our European neighbours. We will strike export deals for British goods and services. And we will lead the world in preventing terrorism and fighting modern slavery.

Build a stronger economy that rewards people who work hard and creates secure and well-paid jobs. We will make sure there is growth and prosperity around the whole country.

Provide real opportunity for all. We will give everyone a chance to get on in life, by building enough affordable housing and making sure there is a good school place for every child.

Build a more secure and united nation by taking action against the extremists who try to divide our society and standing up to the separatists who want to break up our country.
But we will also take the right long-term decisions for a more secure future. We will build on the good work we have done and stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain. But, from the productivity of our economy to the need for a world-class system of social care, we will tackle head-on the long-term challenges we face as a country.

Theresa May is a strong leader who puts the national interest first and gets things done. When she became Prime Minister after the referendum, the priority was to provide economic certainty, a clear vision and strong leadership – and that’s what she delivered. She has also delivered on the mandate from the referendum, and begun the process through which Britain will leave the EU. Now she needs your support to lead Britain through the next five years and give the country the certainty and stability we all need.

You can only get the strong leadership the country needs by voting for Theresa May and your local Conservative candidate. A vote for any other party risks Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister, propped up in coalition by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, and the Liberal Democrats who just want to re-open the divisions of the referendum.

The choice facing the country at this election is all about leadership. The choice in this election is strong and stable leadership in the national interest with Theresa May and the Conservatives – or weak and unstable coalition government, led by Jeremy Corbyn.

Ha! We can't even fight modern slavery at home. And the Tories promote it. Here at home. Thanks for sharing this bit of outrageously untrue nonsense. I am choking on the "world class system of social care".

[Tubby Isaacs]

Unbelievable Labour aren't going to make calling the General Election contentious. Looks like a nice serene run to a big majority.

Or could the election frauds blow up?

Well, you know, this might be a job for that thing we call "the media"??

But they are, overwhelmingly, craven power worshippers/dim stenographers/chortling cynics. They bear a great deal of blame for where we are now.

They do, but they can't report non-existent resistance.

Hold it up for a couple of weeks. Get the Brexit fan-hitting shit out there.

[Tubby Isaacs]

They were quite a long way back in Richmond, too.

But huge Remain vote, and a by-election.

Cheltenham had 56% Remain, and that might flip back. But even somewhere like Lewes (very narrow Remain) will be a struggle.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

@seeingclearly

Indeed! I find this bit at the end quite interesting

A vote for any other party risks Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister, propped up in coalition by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, and the Liberal Democrats who just want to re-open the divisions of the referendum.

It's completely divisive. You have to choose. You're with Theresa or you're not.

[PorFavor]

Dear Paul,

The Prime Minister has just announced that a General Election will be held on 8 June - and that we will shortly take the necessary steps in Parliament to ensure that this can happen.
We need this election now to secure the strong and stable leadership the country needs to see us through Brexit and beyond.
Every vote cast for Theresa May and the Conservatives will strengthen Britain’s hand in the Brexit negotiations.
We will stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain and take the right long-term decisions for a more secure future.
The choice is between strong and stable leadership in the national interest with Theresa May and the Conservatives – or weak and unstable coalition government led by Jeremy Corbyn.
We need an election because:

It will strengthen the Prime Minister’s negotiating hand in Europe. Division in Westminster, and the Government’s small majority, risks weakening your Government’s hand in its negotiations with Europe.

It is the only way to ensure we have strong leadership, certainty and stability. An election now will give the country stability and certainty for a full five years, not just up to the point at which we leave the European Union but beyond it too.

And we do need an election now:

We have a one-off chance to hold an election while the European Union agrees its negotiating position and before the detailed talks begin. This decision cannot be delayed and needs to happen now. That is the only way to end the uncertainty the other parties are causing.

If we don’t have an election, we will have uncertainty and instability. The negotiations will reach their most difficult stage in the run-up to the next scheduled General Election. Division in Westminster will risk our ability to make a success of Brexit and cause uncertainty and instability.

We have the right plan for negotiating with Europe. The Government will negotiate a deep and special partnership between a strong and successful European Union and a United Kingdom that is free to chart its own way in the world. That means we will regain control of our own money, our own laws, and our own borders – and we will be free to strike trade deals with old friends and new partners all around the world. The result will be a more secure future for our country and a better deal for you.

But our plan is opposed by the other parties. The country is coming together, but Westminster is still divided. In recent weeks, Labour have threatened to vote against the final agreement we reach with the European Union. The Liberal Democrats have said they want to “grind” the business of government “to a standstill”. The Scottish National Party say they will vote against the legislation that formally repeals Britain’s membership of the European Union. And unelected members of the House of Lords have vowed to fight us every step of the way. All the other parties are doing is playing political games and causing uncertainty about the future.

We will stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain. Only Theresa May has the plan and the proven leadership to deliver the right deal for Britain abroad and a better deal for ordinary, working people here at home.

We will stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain and:

Establish Britain as the strongest country in Europe, in economic growth and national security. We will negotiate a deep and special partnership with our European neighbours. We will strike export deals for British goods and services. And we will lead the world in preventing terrorism and fighting modern slavery.

Build a stronger economy that rewards people who work hard and creates secure and well-paid jobs. We will make sure there is growth and prosperity around the whole country.

Provide real opportunity for all. We will give everyone a chance to get on in life, by building enough affordable housing and making sure there is a good school place for every child.

Build a more secure and united nation by taking action against the extremists who try to divide our society and standing up to the separatists who want to break up our country.
But we will also take the right long-term decisions for a more secure future. We will build on the good work we have done and stick to our Plan for a Stronger Britain. But, from the productivity of our economy to the need for a world-class system of social care, we will tackle head-on the long-term challenges we face as a country.

Theresa May is a strong leader who puts the national interest first and gets things done. When she became Prime Minister after the referendum, the priority was to provide economic certainty, a clear vision and strong leadership – and that’s what she delivered. She has also delivered on the mandate from the referendum, and begun the process through which Britain will leave the EU. Now she needs your support to lead Britain through the next five years and give the country the certainty and stability we all need.

You can only get the strong leadership the country needs by voting for Theresa May and your local Conservative candidate. A vote for any other party risks Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister, propped up in coalition by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, and the Liberal Democrats who just want to re-open the divisions of the referendum.

The choice facing the country at this election is all about leadership. The choice in this election is strong and stable leadership in the national interest with Theresa May and the Conservatives – or weak and unstable coalition government, led by Jeremy Corbyn.

Surely all this was the case (from a Conservative point of view) throughout the period when Theresa May was saying that there would be no General Election. Nothing's changed.

Edited to add -

Apart, of course, for the sudden, urgent "need" for a General Election and all the attendant justification for it. Which rather belies everything that the Conservatives have been saying up until now. And there we have it in black and white. They should be being ripped to shreds.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Smithson has apparently deleted his tweet with the supposed MORI numbers.

[seeingclearly]

A brilliant political coup. She misdirected everyone.

The right thing to do of course. She'll be given a much larger majority, of between 50 and 75, and no longer be a hostage of the nutjobs in her own party.

As I kept saying, the FtPA provides no real obstacle (contra one RoT).

As we all know the result, what is most interesting is the aftermath, particularly for Labour. Will this shorten or embed the Corbyn transformation?

She might be good at strategy but she is a truly crap politician. Name one beneficial thing she has done? Name ANYTHING she has done since becoming PM. She has only rubber-stamped the decisions of others.

A coup just about sums it up, I thought those hats looked a bit triumphal. Frankly the British people could do better. Perhaps a better question might be, one way or another will it become visible that the gloves are off?

I am of course aware of all the apparel references. But this is a powerplay, so very appropriate. You might also consider what the hats and gloves etc. are covering up. (But then you don't care do you..... but some of us who have seen and understood the devastation taking place do.)

I wonder if it will suffice for the CPS?

I can't of course. I am no Tory. She was a terrible Home Secretary. (The one and only thing I can think to say in her favour is that she did respect the rule of law, even where decrying things like the HRA.)

But, in terms of political skill, you have to admire it. Nobody thought she would,\ do it and she is. All the superficial obstacles like the FtPA proved to be irrelevant. It now looks like the obvious choice.

If only Brown had shown the same skill, how differently things would have turned out.

You always show your bias, in the way you wrap things up.

Brown was worth a dozen of Cameron and a dozen more of May. Political skill is not in maintaing power at the expense of all else, it is in good governance. A proposition that the electorate is continually being distracted from.

With regard to the last two years. Continual, unending distraction as the nation disintegrates, and any voices of unity shut out, shut up, or destroyed. And virtually no good governance in any area you can see. All business of the house focused on debating things already set in place by Cameron and co. (in and out of coalition) And endless Brexit. With a lashing of anti-corbynism to top it all.

Funny how similar your way of presenting your argument matches the Tory email Paul posted. And Mays' speech. Do you study their handbook?

[AnatolyKasparov]

I have concluded that like many "centrists" SH is in awe of the process of politics, rather than any actual outcomes.

As that article the other day summed up, West Wing syndrome

[Tubby Isaacs]

@seeingclearly

Indeed! I find this bit at the end quite interesting

A vote for any other party risks Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister, propped up in coalition by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, and the Liberal Democrats who just want to re-open the divisions of the referendum.

It's completely divisive. You have to choose. You're with Theresa or you're not.

Parties tend to be divisive in elections.

If only Labour had been more like that last time. Vote for Cameron risks economically disastrous Brexit and the end of the UK and Foxy back in the Cabinet.

[PorFavor]

I have concluded that like many "centrists" SH is in awe of the process of politics, rather than any actual outcomes.

As that article the other day summed up, West Wing syndrome

Is now the time to admit that I've only ever seen a part of just one episode of "The West Wing"? I wasn't enchanted by it.

[AnatolyKasparov]

@seeingclearly

Indeed! I find this bit at the end quite interesting

A vote for any other party risks Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister, propped up in coalition by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, and the Liberal Democrats who just want to re-open the divisions of the referendum.

It's completely divisive. You have to choose. You're with Theresa or you're not.

Parties tend to be divisive in elections.

If only Labour had been more like that last time. Vote for Cameron risks economically disastrous Brexit and the end of the UK and Foxy back in the Cabinet.

The latter wasn't much more forseeable then than Corbyn becoming Labour leader, tbf.

Labour did try the "referendum=instability" line on occasion, but the media weren't interested in reporting it and the "focus group tendency" within were terrified of broaching it.

[seeingclearly]

@seeingclearly

Indeed! I find this bit at the end quite interesting

A vote for any other party risks Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister, propped up in coalition by Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP, and the Liberal Democrats who just want to re-open the divisions of the referendum.

It's completely divisive. You have to choose. You're with Theresa or you're not.

Parties tend to be divisive in elections.

If only Labour had been more like that last time. Vote for Cameron risks economically disastrous Brexit and the end of the UK and Foxy back in the Cabinet.

I disagree. Yes parties want to win. This is different. She just invalidated her entire opposition for their stance. Sadly most people won't notice because they have no clue about the role of opposition in parliamentary democracies, and how the last seven years of tory rule has undermined that with the help of the media. And as we also have a greatly undermined attitude to consensual politics, then yes, she is demanding we have to be for her or against her. Tessa d'Arch riding with the Brexit Banner.

The sting in the tail against Labour really is a crap rhetorical device....

[citizenJA]

Is everyone registered to vote?

[howsillyofme1]

Is everyone registered to vote?

Yep, Huddersfield

[Tubby Isaacs]

That's right about the role of opposition. It is misunderstood. But a chance to make a case recently was blown. Not the media''s fault.