Wednesday 26th April 2017

Post by **refitman** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 7:15 am

Morning all.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 7:38 am

Monbiot 2015

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -snp-green" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Monbiot 2017

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I like Monbiot a lot. He, Jones and Toynbee are, I think, the only ones who can write reasonably well on the Graun. He also discusses and researches interesting things slightly off the beaten track.

But his judgement is terrible.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 8:30 am

Good-morning, everyone

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 9:09 am

Morning all.
Ashworth did a good job on Today.

I rather liked the kidnapping of the phrase "long term plan" to use it in terms of the NHS. Ditto the focus on safety of patients.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 9:16 am

Morning.

I've calmed down now, you'll be glad to hear. Labour just need to not mention Brexit, really. Still, good move to unveil their biggest asset today. If Jeremy Hunt doesn't convince people to vote Labour, I don't know what will.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 10:14 am

It's an unprecedented situation Tory incompetence have created for country and people. It's Tory disaster leadership placing the UK in an untenable domestic and international position. Labour don't need to apologise for Cameron's miscalculation and current government chaos.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 10:14 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... s-somerset" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Older people want to be cared for at home. Micro-providers are the answer
A scheme in rural Somerset has plugged the social care gap for 700 people and could be a model for the rest of the UK

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 10:16 am

Yet another outlier

Panelbase:

CON 49 (+10)
LAB 27 (-4)
LD 10 (+4)
UKIP 5 (-9)
SNP 5 (=)
GRN 3 (-2)

I wonder what Labour could now do to change this?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 10:24 am

Morning.

Oh my fucking GOD, this man (not Ian, the complete twat he's referring to)!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He leaves me virtually speechless, even allowing for the Etonian self-certainty and general foul arrogance I already knew about. Can you even begin to imagine his memoirs...?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 10:28 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Oh my fucking GOD, this man (not Ian, the complete twat he's referring to)!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He leaves me virtually speechless, even allowing for the Etonian self-certainty and general foul arrogance I already knew about. Can you even begin to imagine his memoirs...?

"I thought I'd be rather good at it. And I was", the perfect title

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 10:28 am

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... sited.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Economic Competence Revisited

Mainlymacro

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 10:32 am

Good morfternoon.

(And a belated "night night" to HindleA.)

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 11:34 am

This looks important for two reasons

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/j ... 7a21c5?5pg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

First it gives an indication of the seats Labour thinks it cannot defend.

Second, and more importantly, by my reckoning that means three more Corbynistas, which with overall numbers falling, might be enough to get one nominated after the election.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 11:39 am

Ipsos/Mori

Conservative
49 +6

Labour
26 -4

Lib Dem
13 =

Ukip
4- 2

1,004 21-25 April

A fair amount of bouncing around with that one. Looks like the calling of the election has concentrated minds.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 24136.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **adam** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 11:43 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Ipsos/Mori

Conservative
49 +6

Labour
26 -4

Lib Dem
13 =

Ukip
4- 2

1,004 21-25 April

A fair amount of bouncing around with that one. Looks like the calling of the election has concentrated minds.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 24136.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's none of my business, (other than how it's all everyone's business) but there is such a difference in tone between this and the frankly sneering poll post a little way up the page that I don't know why you have to do the sneery thing.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 11:48 am

Big Dick Little Willie Lilley (according to Who's Who)not standing again.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 12:01 pm

I'm reading as usual but on the iPad because my laptop is kaput, so not posting much because as an oldish person I'm useless without a keyboard.

If I retweet something on twitter that you like, feel free to link it here, don't assume I will, e.g. flipchartrick's map of Wales.
The only way there could be a good outcome from this election is if an awful lot of poor and young people vote who've never voted before, not likely is it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 12:02 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Oh my fucking GOD, this man (not Ian, the complete twat he's referring to)!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He leaves me virtually speechless, even allowing for the Etonian self-certainty and general foul arrogance I already knew about. Can you even begin to imagine his memoirs...?

Has someone told Dave what 'populism' means? He doesn't seem to know.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 12:14 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Yet another outlier

Panelbase:

CON 49 (+10)
LAB 27 (-4)
LD 10 (+4)
UKIP 5 (-9)
SNP 5 (=)
GRN 3 (-2)

I wonder what Labour could now do to change this?

The citizen family are holding you personally responsible for Labour's electoral success on June 8 2017. You best get in it to win it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 12:19 pm

Lilley played himself as the Nazi concentration commander in the film Spitting Image,for those who don't know.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 12:28 pm

A pleasant pension triple lock pincer movement from Corbyn and Robertson there.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 12:33 pm

He's actively working against,on moral grounds according to his own stated objectives.Essential ingredient of being a grade one arse is that sometimes you appear not to be.Take it from an expert.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 12:34 pm

It's not just us then:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 12:35 pm

gilsey wrote:I'm reading as usual but on the iPad because my laptop is kaput, so not posting much because as an oldish person I'm useless without a keyboard.
If I retweet something on twitter that you like, feel free to link it here, don't assume I will, e.g. flipchartrick's map of Wales.
The only way there could be a good outcome from this election is if an awful lot of poor and young people vote who've never voted before, not likely is it.

I assume that's a hint...
Do you mean this chart?:

: Chart.PNG (214.75 KiB) Viewed 13856 times

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 1:05 pm

You know, when Newsnight went to Wrexham last night , we thought they were being a bit naughty only talking to old people, as they are always more likely to vote Tory pretty much everywhere. "Can't they find any young people?" we cried, sarcastically. But apparently not, it seems!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 1:07 pm

UKIP at just 4% in the latest MORI poll, pretty astonishing.

Obviously their collapse is a big part of the huge Tory scores, but its reasonable to assume much of this new support is soft and quite possibly detatchable in the campaign.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:09 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... s-somerset

Older people want to be cared for at home. Micro-providers are the answer
A scheme in rural Somerset has plugged the social care gap for 700 people and could be a model for the rest of the UK

Interesting to note the featured scheme workers do just under 16 hours a week. Which just happens to be the cut off point for various forms of means testing. Also they do not do personal care. So many of their clients will be self funding and or/on personal budgets. As a model for roll out in my area unviable because the allowed amount of home help support is one hour a week. And you have to be really incapable of looking after your home to get that. I don't know of anyone who could run a home, able or not on just an hours work.

Forgive me my scepticism, but really sorting out old Christmas cards is not what people will be doing. Unless of course the client is well off enough to employ you to do that and pays through the nose for more targetted help.

I forgot to look at where this is buried in the Guardian, A, but it was deep enough to garner a single comment in five hours! No doubt it will get touted as a solution in some report somewhere or another!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:10 pm

Jolyon Maugham is providing some light relief today, which is nice

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:22 pm

Well, this is being widely reported on Twitter

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-04-26/corb ... thout-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:31 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Well, this is being widely reported on Twitter

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-04-26/corb ... thout-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tricky one. I'd still want Labour to push for and reference the need for debates.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:33 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Well, this is being widely reported on Twitter

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-04-26/corb ... thout-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Makes sense. It's unlikely that they would ostentatiously "empty chair" Theresa May which would have made it worthwhile to turn up. Labour should keep up the pressure on her to turn up, though. And make it clear that if she does, then they will.

(Bit worried that she might pull a flanker on this one now, though, and be a (very) late "wild card" entry! I'd put nothing past the Conservatives and, of course, the media would bend over backwards to acommodate her.)

Edited - typo

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:34 pm

It very much depends on if the broadcasters are actually willing to "empty chair" May or not.

The symbolism of that would be powerful, even to some "floating" voters.

If they are, yes they should definitely go ahead. If not, I'm not so sure......

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:43 pm

Afternoon all. Back from an all morning meeting at school.

Toby Young‏Verified account @toadmeister 23m23 minutes ago
More
The Public Accounts Committee report is Labour propaganda, pure and simple

Should the CEO of a so-called "politically independent charity" get so wound up about a report criticizing a government department?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:47 pm

David Ward gets the boot as LibDem candidate for (Lab/Lib marginal) Bradford East. At least that's one overt anti-semite who won't be in the HoC come June, then.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:53 pm

There are so many awful people around these days it's almost easy to forget one of the evergreen worst of all:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 2:56 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:David Ward gets the boot as LibDem candidate for (Lab/Lib marginal) Bradford East. At least that's one overt anti-semite who won't be in the HoC come June, then.

There was another LibDem who was going to stand in Luton who got kicked out too the other day for the same reason - his utterances were far worse.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 3:03 pm

In further light relief, Paul "4 per cent" Nuttall has apparently compared himself to Mahatma Gandhi

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 3:12 pm

Afternoon all

I read with interest this point about not attending the debates without May

I would love to see an empty seat for May and how silly it makes her look. However, from that moment on the reality is that they will all then go for Corbyn and Labour, and attack him - because, actually, he will be somewhat constrained in that he can actually form a Government and the others won't

Also these parties are not competeing against one another to any great extent - they are all chasing Labour voters and that is wherre the rich pickings will be. No mileage in Sturgeon going for Lucas, or Wood going for Farron

You can just see Wood (not standing herself though and tribally anti-Labour), Lucas (she will want to hold her seat vs Labour), Farron (no need to say what these yellow Tory supporters would do), UKIP (they have lost all the Tories so now they will pretend to be socialist) and Sturgeon (tribally anti-Labour and she has to makes sure none of those ex-Labour voters ever think of going back) would play it

May would sit at home and watch it being difficult for her at the beginning but you cannot debate or shout at an empty chair so in the end it would become Corbyn vs the Rest

So in summary, the first 2 minutes without May would be funny but from then on it will be open warfare on the Tories

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 3:17 pm

Agree with the sentiment. Unfortunate Freudian slip at the end, it'd be open war on Labour.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 3:28 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Afternoon all. Back from an all morning meeting at school.

Toby Young‏Verified account @toadmeister 23m23 minutes ago
More
The Public Accounts Committee report is Labour propaganda, pure and simple
Should the CEO of a so-called "politically independent charity" get so wound up about a report criticizing a government department?

It is a bizarre claim anyway. Should not any government anywhere have a public accounts committee of sorts, cross party, etc., etc., propaganda claims (esp. for opp.) for such a committee could only exist in totally bent corrupt state, of course the populace encouraged out of critical thinking faculty might not get the subtleties of that.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 3:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:In further light relief, Paul "4 per cent" Nuttall has apparently compared himself to Mahatma Gandhi

I'd love to see him in a dhoti.
Especially on a day like today.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 4:12 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Agree with the sentiment. Unfortunate Freudian slip at the end, it'd be open war on Labour.

My brain read what you meant, if that helps!

Edited -

That really should have been a post for howsillyofme1. I was trying (and failing) to take a short-cut.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 4:16 pm

Jeremy Corbyn has renewed his call for Theresa May to take part in TV election debates. And he has signalled that he won’t take part if she is not included. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Glad he's keeping up the pressure.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 5:04 pm

Ooooops silly me for the error above

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 5:06 pm

Numeracy classes for Mr.T
Young.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 5:12 pm

Oh go then, living up to your (user)name.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 5:12 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Ooooops silly me for the error above

I liked it

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 5:25 pm

Talking of names,I used to watch Crown Court .It was on at dinner time,there once was a guy who changed his name to Deed Poll.I laughed so much I was incapable of returning to school;that was my excuse anyway.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 5:59 pm

Abi Wilkinson having a hard time on Twitter in the past 24 hours, maybe some of you who are on that site could send her some support?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 26 Apr, 2017 6:33 pm

UK to take 130 more lone refugee children in Dubs scheme climbdown

Peer criticises ‘shocking mistake’ as ministers say ‘administrative error’ meant they underestimated available places

Lord Dubs said: “It is especially shocking that they have ‘just discovered’ this dreadful mistake after we and the local authorities have been telling them for several months that there were more offers of places.” (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ubs-scheme