Friday 5th April 2017

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 05 May, 2017 6:54 pm

SpinningHugo wrote: Things could get very sticky indeed for the Tories in about two years, but I can't see them not turning it around given that they'll have three more years in which to do so. We're looking at 2027 now.

A crumb of comfort I know but isn't the next GE in 4 years time and not 5?

Or did I read the FTPA incorrectly?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 05 May, 2017 7:03 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Things could get very sticky indeed for the Tories in about two years, but I can't see them not turning it around given that they'll have three more years in which to do so. We're looking at 2027 now.
A crumb of comfort I know but isn't the next GE in 4 years time and not 5?

Or did I read the FTPA incorrectly?

Five I think, isn't it? Subsection 1(3)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /1/enacted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(or 4 years 11 months if we're being precise.)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 05 May, 2017 7:08 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Things could get very sticky indeed for the Tories in about two years, but I can't see them not turning it around given that they'll have three more years in which to do so. We're looking at 2027 now.
A crumb of comfort I know but isn't the next GE in 4 years time and not 5?

Or did I read the FTPA incorrectly?
Five I think, isn't it? Subsection 1(3)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... /1/enacted" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(or 4 years 11 months if we're being precise.)

What about s.1.4?

Relates to what happens in the case of an early election.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 05 May, 2017 7:13 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
What about s.1.4?

Relates to what happens in the case of an early election.

June isn't before the first Thursday in May so it doesn't apply? If she'd called it in April then that would have bitten?

Can't say I've ever thought about those subsections before, but that is my initial reading.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 05 May, 2017 8:03 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Things could get very sticky indeed for the Tories in about two years, but I can't see them not turning it around given that they'll have three more years in which to do so. We're looking at 2027 now.
A crumb of comfort I know but isn't the next GE in 4 years time and not 5?

Or did I read the FTPA incorrectly?

If Tories are returned to government in June 2017, they'll alter this legislation reflecting what they prefer.

Post by **adam** » Fri 05 May, 2017 8:39 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Glad to see some really happy posters on here today...such pleasant reading

I think that kind of sarcasm is more toxic then anything else on the board. I don't believe anybody here is remotely happy. You're being absurdly simplistic.

Vile stuff. I'm gone, for the time being at least.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 05 May, 2017 8:50 pm

From LocalGov

https://www.localgov.co.uk/Conservative ... tion/43018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 05 May, 2017 8:51 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:07 pm

adam wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Glad to see some really happy posters on here today...such pleasant reading
I think that kind of sarcasm is more toxic then anything else on the board. I don't believe anybody here is remotely happy. You're being absurdly simplistic.

Vile stuff. I'm gone, for the time being at least.

Get over yourself.....

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:09 pm

citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Things could get very sticky indeed for the Tories in about two years, but I can't see them not turning it around given that they'll have three more years in which to do so. We're looking at 2027 now.
A crumb of comfort I know but isn't the next GE in 4 years time and not 5?

Or did I read the FTPA incorrectly?
If Tories are returned to government in June 2017, they'll alter this legislation reflecting what they prefer.

It expires in 2020, I think. So they aren't bound by it any more. Not sure why I believe that so I could be entirely wrong.

The next election is in 5 years if Labour are lucky. Because it means the Tories will be hanging on in desperation. Otherwise it will be four years.

With a decent leader, i.e. one who inspires confidence in our fickle electorate, it is possible to see a dramatic return to power. The problem is just how badly will the Tory party have screwed up to make that happen.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:13 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
adam wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Glad to see some really happy posters on here today...such pleasant reading
I think that kind of sarcasm is more toxic then anything else on the board. I don't believe anybody here is remotely happy. You're being absurdly simplistic.

Vile stuff. I'm gone, for the time being at least.

Get over yourself.....

Well done, your behaviour has driven off one of our most pleasant, chilled out and thoughtful contributors. Not only that but Adam volunteered their time to keep this place running.

And that is your response? Pathetic.

Delete your account.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:22 pm

And how many people has your and Hugo's behaviour driven off?

Many of those were very chilled and thoughtful contributors.....

His post was an over reaction especially seeing what crap you have been posting over the last few weeks

Don't tell me to delete my account you arrogant sod

Post by **refitman** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:25 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Glad to see some really happy posters on here today...such pleasant reading

Wonderful to know that changing the leader will solve all Labour problems.

Also we should be shouting loudly for Remain like the LD because that is the A50 vote was the reason Labour failed to take back UKIP votes

Can I hesitate to suggest that the reasons for Labour stagnating since 2010 may be slightly more wide ranging than just who is the leader and that a sustainable solution to the problems Labour have had sinc 2010 may need a bit more consideration?

The Tories have managed to destroy 2 parties since 2010....the LD were hammered in 2015 and it's UKIPs turn now....where we ever going to get UKIP votes back when the Tories have turned into UKIP?

Labour didn't manage to get LD votes in 2010 but whose fault was that? Corbyns?

Then there is the mythical soft Tory voter...where do these exist? When was the last time they voted Labour....2005? 2001? Seems harsh to blame Corbyn for failing to attract these people....

Trump and Le Pen show a worldwide change in how voters are seeing things which is why a comparison of the performance of parties in previous elections is problematic....2017 is not a normal year!

At least Labour got more than the 20% predicted by one of our most gleeful posters last week

I've not seen anyone "gloating" on here. I've seen several posters who have been prepared to give Corbyn (and Labour) multiple chances to pull themselves together finally getting exasperated at the performance in the local elections.

I think you need to wind it in a bit and not come storming in with your size 9s.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:25 pm

I would have been delighted if Labour had swept the board and would have admitted that Jeremy Corbyn was a hero. But the former didn't happen and the latter looks more unlikely than ever.

Edited - typo

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:31 pm

refitman wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Glad to see some really happy posters on here today...such pleasant reading

Wonderful to know that changing the leader will solve all Labour problems.

Also we should be shouting loudly for Remain like the LD because that is the A50 vote was the reason Labour failed to take back UKIP votes

Can I hesitate to suggest that the reasons for Labour stagnating since 2010 may be slightly more wide ranging than just who is the leader and that a sustainable solution to the problems Labour have had sinc 2010 may need a bit more consideration?

The Tories have managed to destroy 2 parties since 2010....the LD were hammered in 2015 and it's UKIPs turn now....where we ever going to get UKIP votes back when the Tories have turned into UKIP?

Labour didn't manage to get LD votes in 2010 but whose fault was that? Corbyns?

Then there is the mythical soft Tory voter...where do these exist? When was the last time they voted Labour....2005? 2001? Seems harsh to blame Corbyn for failing to attract these people....

Trump and Le Pen show a worldwide change in how voters are seeing things which is why a comparison of the performance of parties in previous elections is problematic....2017 is not a normal year!

At least Labour got more than the 20% predicted by one of our most gleeful posters last week
I've not seen anyone "gloating" on here. I've seen several posters who have been prepared to give Corbyn (and Labour) multiple chances to pull themselves together finally getting exasperated at the performance in the local elections.

I think you need to wind it in a bit and not come storming in with your size 9s.

I have seen people gloating here...continually posting polls showing Labour behind and snide comments about it. Insulting the leader of the party - calling him dim and stupid

Some of the posters have taken that route you suggested and none of those are people who I am referring too - of course they are allowed to have that view and it is a reasonable one

Do you honestly think TE especially should not also wind it in with the relentless bashing of the leader and making every post seem like fact when all it is is his rather monomaniacal opinion

It is your board and you can do and say what you want....including banning me, that is your prerogative. Up to you really - although would be a bit odd that I am threatened with banning when you still allow Rusty to come on here whenever he feels he needs to add some words of wisdom

Post by **refitman** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:35 pm

I do love they way people in other places like to slag us off. Apparently there is loads of gloating today.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:38 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote: I have seen people gloating here...continually posting polls showing Labour behind and snide comments about it. Insulting the leader of the party - calling him dim and stupid

Some of the posters have taken that route you suggested and none of those are people who I am referring too - of course they are allowed to have that view and it is a reasonable one

Do you honestly think TE especially should not also wind it in with the relentless bashing of the leader and making every post seem like fact when all it is is his rather monomaniacal opinion

It is your board and you can do and say what you want....including banning me, that is your prerogative. Up to you really - although would be a bit odd that I am threatened with banning when you still allow Rusty to come on here whenever he feels he needs to add some words of wisdom

SH posted some polls. Me and AK pulled him up on it when there was a bounce for Labour.

Rusty has been banned multiple times. It's whack-a-mole with him.

You also seem to be quite happy for SH, TE & Tubby to be banned. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:39 pm

PorFavor wrote:I would have been delighted if Labour had swept the board and would have admitted that Jeremy Corbyn was a hero. But the former didn't happen and the latter looks more unlikely than ever.

Edited - typo

But I have never challenged your right to criticise him and I know you have given him time.....I don't agree with you but I find your position perfectly reasonable and respect it

Others though have just bombed the board with 'Corbyn is crap' posts for weeks and months.....nothing constructive in that but it is me who is threatened with banning for trying to stand up to it

I have only suggested today that there are other factors at work here than the leadership, and actually the blame of Corbyn is - in my view - to easy when actually the problems go much deeper and have been there since the early 2000s.....I am not saying I am right either but it is another viewpoint

An unpopular one on here at the moment it seems though

Perhaps Should just say

Corbyn is dim
Corbyn is stupid
Diane Abbott is always a disaster
McDonnell is a nasty piece of work
Labour would be miles ahead without Corbyn
Corbyn is to blame for Brexit
Corbyn is the worst leader Labour have ever had

There you go...am I welcome back now?

By the way I am not including you in this but I have read varieties on this theme bombarding the board today in particular form one tr two posters. TE has done well if he has made me think even Hugo is reasonable (and if you notice I have been trying to be polite to him today)

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:40 pm

refitman wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: I have seen people gloating here...continually posting polls showing Labour behind and snide comments about it. Insulting the leader of the party - calling him dim and stupid

Some of the posters have taken that route you suggested and none of those are people who I am referring too - of course they are allowed to have that view and it is a reasonable one

Do you honestly think TE especially should not also wind it in with the relentless bashing of the leader and making every post seem like fact when all it is is his rather monomaniacal opinion

It is your board and you can do and say what you want....including banning me, that is your prerogative. Up to you really - although would be a bit odd that I am threatened with banning when you still allow Rusty to come on here whenever he feels he needs to add some words of wisdom
SH posted some polls. Me and AK pulled him up on it when there was a bounce for Labour.

Rusty has been banned multiple times. It's whack-a-mole with him.

You also seem to be quite happy for SH, TE & Tubby to be banned. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander?

I have never asked for anyone to be banned, apart from Hugo many moons ago and that was a mistake

Tubby insinuated I was an anti-semite as well once....but that is another story

Post by **refitman** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:41 pm

Hi Tizme *waves*

How did things go in your neck of the woods?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:42 pm

refitman wrote:I do love they way people in other places like to slag us off. Apparently there is loads of gloating today.

I don't post anything I say on here.....but I temper my language on here

I didn't know we were stopped from posting in two forums?

I am more frank what I think of certain posters and their attitudes.......I can post them here if you want me to

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:45 pm

In other news,
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-failures

As AK has pointed out he is competent, and to be fair I thought he handled the capital expenditure claims robustly. Not sure he goes down well on the doorstep.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:51 pm

And in the interests of balance the opposite view to that of SH and myself.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/loc ... 20801.html

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:52 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 19151.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit: Jean Claude Juncker takes swipe at UK stating 'English is losing importance' amid ongoing row with Theresa May

Yes - who didn't see this coming.
We have totally fucked ourselves and the midlands are a disgrace.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:00 pm

@tinyclanger2

Ye'll have haaad yoorr tea?

edited to add -

Probably the worst Stanley Baxter impression in the world.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:05 pm

but not a total disgrace.
apologies.
freaking out.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:07 pm

Look sorry HSOM.
No-one here is happy, but the Labour leadership hasn't helped.
It's just how it is.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:08 pm

am a bit sick of being haranged.
to be honest.
including where it's by proxy.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:10 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 19151.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit: Jean Claude Juncker takes swipe at UK stating 'English is losing importance' amid ongoing row with Theresa May
Yes - who didn't see this coming.
We have totally fucked ourselves and the midlands are a disgrace.

That's harsh, they have just fallen under the spell of smooth talking Nigel.

Nobody expected him to die in a bizarre Trump Tower elevator accident and regenerate into Theresa May.

Also, is it just me but has John McD missed his calling as a Bond villain.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:12 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Someone said that the British electorate are like a frog in water and being slowly heated up

The Tories are extreme right and the voters are following them at the moment

Labour cannot go there

and yet they do.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:12 pm

By the way if Juncker expects the Germans to start talking French, he is in for a shock.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:13 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:am a bit sick of being haranged.
to be honest.
including where it's by proxy.

Noted. I've applied for a postal harangue.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:14 pm

adam wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Glad to see some really happy posters on here today...such pleasant reading
I think that kind of sarcasm is more toxic then anything else on the board. I don't believe anybody here is remotely happy. You're being absurdly simplistic.

Vile stuff. I'm gone, for the time being at least.

Yep.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:14 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Look sorry HSOM.
No-one here is happy, but the Labour leadership hasn't helped.
It's just how it is.

I accept your second point is probably correct but there are many other contributing factors as well

The thing that annoys me is the seeming belief that this is all down to the leader and I find that wrong-headed and damaging

After GE will decide if i want him to stand down and if so who could replace him. I will also be watching the behaviour of the PLP to see if there is a repeat of some of the disgusting behaviour we saw with respect to Ed (still the most impressive politician in Labour)

On the first point I respectfully disagree......i believe some people on here do not really want a Labour Government under Corbyn.....i may be wrong but it is my opinion

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:14 pm

Board finally implodes emoticon.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:15 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Someone said that the British electorate are like a frog in water and being slowly heated up

The Tories are extreme right and the voters are following them at the moment

Labour cannot go there
and yet they do.

Some MP do......not the party as a whole

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:16 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
adam wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Glad to see some really happy posters on here today...such pleasant reading
I think that kind of sarcasm is more toxic then anything else on the board. I don't believe anybody here is remotely happy. You're being absurdly simplistic.

Vile stuff. I'm gone, for the time being at least.
Yep.

Nope

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:17 pm

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:20 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:In other news,
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... n-failures

As AK has pointed out he is competent, and to be fair I thought he handled the capital expenditure claims robustly. Not sure he goes down well on the doorstep.

I have some sympathy with Curtice. In terms of vote share the Tories didn't do spectacularly. They'll do better in the GE, but as ASK said, 45% looks a bit too far.

I don't know. The best argument for Corbyn now is that there is no viable winning alternative, and I fear that is true. Looks like a really bleak future.

Grammar schools ffs. What is this, 1952?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:21 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:By the way if Juncker expects the Germans to start talking French, he is in for a shock.

Why would that be any more unlikely than them speaking English?

I know loads of Germans who speak French

This seems similar to some of the posts under the article in the Indy....

Barnier is leading the negotiations anyway.....the EU has said the Council of Ministers won't be negotiating....

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:21 pm

ah.
fuck it.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:22 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:YEP.

Your view....i think is an over reaction

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:25 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... tions-city" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Venice bans kebab shops to ‘preserve decorum and traditions' of city
Authorities say new measures will stop proliferation of fast-food restaurants that are ‘not compatible’ with city’s heritage

H.sapiens sapiens officially up its own arse big time and unlikely ever to emerge.
(it seems)

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:31 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:By the way if Juncker expects the Germans to start talking French, he is in for a shock.
Why would that be any more unlikely than them speaking English?

I know loads of Germans who speak French

This seems similar to some of the posts under the article in the Indy....

Barnier is leading the negotiations anyway.....the EU has said the Council of Ministers won't be negotiating....

The Germans won't accept French as the official language of the EU, any more than the French will accept German.

I believe Barnier is planning to have translators and speak French, which will slow everything down.

So a comment that English is declining in importance just because some jumped up little island is leaving is just Juncker being silly. English is not the dominant language for international forums pretty much everywhere because of the UK. Ubiquity and of course the worlds only superpower have a fair amount to do with it.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:40 pm

There are loads of official languages in the EU and 3 that are used for admin (French, English and German)

The likelihood is English will be dropped as an admin language post Brexit although will obviously will still be used

Barnier has every right to speak French if he wants. Not his fault David Davis can't speak it.....Boris can though

He said English will decline in importance in European matters. He is probably right. It will no longer be used by the bureaucracy but will stay an official language as Ireland and Malta use it

No British EU officials any more either

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:40 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... tions-city" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Venice bans kebab shops to ‘preserve decorum and traditions' of city
Authorities say new measures will stop proliferation of fast-food restaurants that are ‘not compatible’ with city’s heritage
H.sapiens sapiens officially up its own arse big time and unlikely ever to emerge.
(it seems)

Kebab shops are the least of their worries:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2015/ ... ships.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:44 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... tions-city" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Venice bans kebab shops to ‘preserve decorum and traditions' of city
Authorities say new measures will stop proliferation of fast-food restaurants that are ‘not compatible’ with city’s heritage
H.sapiens sapiens officially up its own arse big time and unlikely ever to emerge.
(it seems)
Kebab shops are the least of their worries:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2015/ ... ships.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Indeed.
But it seems we no longer have to worry about actual cause and/or effect.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:50 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:There are loads of official languages in the EU and 3 that are used for admin (French, English and German)

The likelihood is English will be dropped as an admin language post Brexit although will obviously will still be used

Barnier has every right to speak French if he wants. Not his fault David Davis can't speak it.....Boris can though

He said English will decline in importance in European matters. He is probably right. It will no longer be used by the bureaucracy but will stay an official language as Ireland and Malta use it

No British EU officials any more either

So you think the EU is going to adopt French as the administrative language. Fascinating.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:57 pm

Steady.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 05 May, 2017 10:58 pm

Typical of your arrogance that last post

The EU has 24 official languages and 3 procedural ones (English, German and French). I cannot see English staying at that level post Brexit

French and German will still stay

Where did I say French would become the only admin language?

It is quite simple to look up you know

Why are you so anti-French?