Monday 22nd May 2017

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:27 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Conservative Party Manifesto

Alternative versions of the manifesto are currently in production and will be released shortly.

If you would like to be notified when they are released please complete the form below.

https://www.conservatives.com/alternati ... toversions
No joke

I strongly believe in my manifesto. And if you don't like it, I have others. Shame it's the large print / braille alternative versions.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:28 pm

PF,I started you off in attempt for you to finish,you were faffing about,so I finished it for you.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:36 pm

Waiting for the musical version.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:36 pm

I've got the one Tories started with
Why on earth would I trust them not to change it?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:38 pm

ICM and ComRes are probably the two pollsters with the most pro-Tory methodology. If they start putting the Tories under 45, it really could be on.......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:40 pm

All the votes from everyone counted after the polls close on election day
That's the only poll I'm interested in

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:42 pm

And the seeming reaction of several journalists to today's events could be even more ominous for May than the polls narrowing.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:45 pm

Willow904 wrote:
gilsey wrote:Brexit appears to mean taking back control of everything but border
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opini ... 38738.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is arguable, therefore, that no realistic political solution to the border issue exists at all. Certainly not within the parameters under which the negotiating parties appear to be operating.
In the almost impossible event of Corbyn/Starmer being the ones negotiating with the EU, could they hang a u-turn on keeping the union together? I don't mean staying in the EU, but the EFTA/EEA. I'm pretty sure that's where Starmer's inclination would lie. Sturgeon seems to have implied the SNP would be happy enough with that.
Well, I'd be happy with that too, so I think you can assume, therefore, it could not possibly happen because that's what I keep being told by various posters whenever I mention I would prefer a soft Brexit.

Willow

If you include me in that I think you have mistaken what I think - probably my fault

I think Labour were right to support the A50 after failing to amend it as to do otherwise I think would have been a serious error

What I do think also is that Labour should keep their options open. They have been a little reticent to be really clear on their intentions (when pushed Corbyn did clarify it but it seemed forced)

I agree Starmer is possibly inclined to find a compromise somehow

To me it has always depended on public opinion being ready to support a change of tack without a huge backlash - I don't think it is there yet but maybe sometime in the future

Labour has a difficult task in neutralizing Brexit as much as it can. Essentially a party more inclined to Remain but with lots of constituencies that are inclined the other way

If a way out can be found then it should be but door has not been opened for us yet

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:46 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:And the seeming reaction of several journalists to today's events could be even more ominous for May than the polls narrowing.

Let's see how she does tonight. I'm enjoying Osborne putting the knife in. Blue on blue, most amusing.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:57 pm

I couldn't like the second half of the Osborne tweet
'...how a big Tory majority is bad news for...'

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 3:04 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/social-care ... disability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Social care green paper must address the needs of all.

"The green paper must be bold enough to recognise the needs of all social care service users, especially the younger people who are too often ignored. This should not be a competition for funding. We need a fair and lasting deal for all."

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 May, 2017 3:05 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:ICM and ComRes are probably the two pollsters with the most pro-Tory methodology. If they start putting the Tories under 45, it really could be on.......

You think it possible it could be on then?

I don't.

But then, you're the optimist.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 May, 2017 3:07 pm

Andrew Neil interviews May tonight. Should be very tasty.

He is a very good journalist Neil, always on top of his brief, regardless of his political views.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 22 May, 2017 3:12 pm

citizenJA wrote:I've got the one Tories started with
Why on earth would I trust them not to change it?

They'll change it. For the worse. Guaranteed.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 May, 2017 3:21 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:ICM and ComRes are probably the two pollsters with the most pro-Tory methodology. If they start putting the Tories under 45, it really could be on.......

You think it possible it could be on then?

I don't.

But then, you're the optimist.

Please note the "if" in the above statement?

Barring an as yet unforeseen miracle, the Tories are still going to win.

But as I said the other day the difference between a majority of over 200 for them, and one under 50, is absolutely VAST.

In that sense, the game is well and truly on.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 May, 2017 3:24 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:ICM and ComRes are probably the two pollsters with the most pro-Tory methodology. If they start putting the Tories under 45, it really could be on.......

You think it possible it could be on then?

I don't.

But then, you're the optimist.
Please note the "if" in the above statement?

Barring an as yet unforeseen miracle, the Tories are still going to win.

But as I said the other day the difference between a majority of over 200 for them, and one under 50, is absolutely VAST.

In that sense, the game is well and truly on.

Not sure it is really, in terms of practical government.

Foxes might not get it, I suppose, if the majority is kept down. And Corbyn's staying on will be more straightforward also.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 22 May, 2017 3:47 pm

CWU pull funding from Jess Phillips after yesterday's comments - for contradicting the Union's positive message.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/cwu-pulls-back ... at-1622785" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:18 pm

New Welsh poll
Lab: 44% (+9)
Con: 34% (-7)
Plaid: 9% (-2)
Lib Dems 6% (-1)
UKIP: 5% (+1)

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:19 pm

Has there ever been a campaign as bad as this Tory one?

Cameron and Osborne look like geniuses compared to these morons.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:27 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:New Welsh poll
Lab: 44% (+9)
Con: 34% (-7)
Plaid: 9% (-2)
Lib Dems 6% (-1)
UKIP: 5% (+1)

The original 40-30 "shock" poll at the start of the campaign looked too good for the Tories, this looks a bit optimistic for Labour - in particular, PC look rather too low.

But still, it adds to our PM's "wobbly Monday"

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:38 pm

Excellent signature your have there Mr H.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:40 pm

PorFavor wrote:Theresa May, speaking in Wrexham -
But since my manifesto was published, the proposals have been subject to fake claims made by Jeremy Corbyn. (Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)

Yikety yikes.
Makes Spitting Image look like a documentary.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:44 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q= ... nic+monday

tried to work out how to do fancy video insert thing but - er - failed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:44 pm

It wasn't?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:47 pm

[youtube]SsmVgoXDq2w[/youtube]

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:48 pm

PorFavor wrote:"Claps" and "crate". I know George Osborne pronounced the words in this way, but it's now common usage. Very annoying.

(puzzled emoticon - what are the actual words?)
(and apologies for denseness)

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:50 pm

Afternoon

As AK I think this may be a tad on the optimistic side but it does bring me back to the question 'how soft is the Tory vote?' especially seeing the campaign was all based around May being so much better than Corbyn - I am not sure that is proving to be the case now and some of the Tory->Labour switchers may be heading back as they see the Tory plans are not to their liking

I don't know if it is the Tory campaign that is a shambles or the PM herself - she has never been tested under pressure and doesn't seem to be good at it - indications as to why she has been reluctant to put herself in front of a hostile audience

Still a lot of time to go but May will need to get a grip soon - I am not sure how much continued negative campaigning against Corbyn will work now.....she has to start showing some level of competence herself

If, as I still strongly expect, she is PM on June 9th she will have been weakened by this campaign if she doesn't improve. She will really have to deliver on the economy and Brexit to hold her 'coalition of fools' together and I doubt if she can. I predict she will not be PM for 2022

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:54 pm

Guessing collapse and create,seeking clarification.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:02 pm

HindleA wrote:Guessing collapse and create,seeking clarification.

Sorry....your funding has been taken off you and tc2 has to train you out of the goodness of their heart with the anticipation they will have money taken off them for showing empathy

Brave New Strong and Stable World!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:04 pm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:05 pm

I have changed jobs.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:06 pm

HindleA wrote:I have changed jobs.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:07 pm

oh very good

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:08 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
HindleA wrote:Guessing collapse and create,seeking clarification.
Sorry....your funding has been taken off you and tc2 has to train you out of the goodness of their heart with the anticipation they will have money taken off them for showing empathy

Brave New Strong and Stable World!

ha!

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:10 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
HindleA wrote:Guessing collapse and create,seeking clarification.
Sorry....your funding has been taken off you and tc2 has to train you out of the goodness of their heart with the anticipation they will have money taken off them for showing empathy

Brave New Strong and Stable World!
ha!

I get the impression that you are good, for this site may I venture almost saintly (can I have a saint icon please?)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:10 pm

Have just been watching TM the PM shaking her head at the Kuenssberg.
One thing about the May - she doesn't half make me
SEETHE.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:13 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote: (can I have a saint icon please?)

working on it ...

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:14 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Have just been watching TM the PM shaking her head at the Kuenssberg.
One thing about the May - she doesn't half make me
SEETHE.

I know some people don't like Corbyn but he doesn't ever come across too badly - he never really seems to lose his temper or go into personal attacks. He may fluff his line and be a bit convoluted.

May, however, comes across as a really unpleasant character - I don't think she comes across well on tv at all well either - like some sort of Cruella de Ville or the wicket stepmother in Sleeping Beauty. Scowling and condescending. That video sums her up

I really think they underestimated Corbyn - maybe not enough to lose - but she may end up being severely damaged

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:18 pm

There you go:

: saint emoticon.png (942 Bytes) Viewed 14380 times

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:21 pm

TC2 please make sure that bear uses that postal vote,wisely.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:21 pm

If we're lucky Refitman will magically turn it into something you can embed as an image instead of as an attachment, like my earlier vs emoticon:

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:21 pm

Ta

I shall use it for myself....I think no-one would challenge my suitability.....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:32 pm

Have replaced signature,very much open to misinterpretation.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:32 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:"Claps" and "crate". I know George Osborne pronounced the words in this way, but it's now common usage. Very annoying.
(puzzled emoticon - what are the actual words?)
(and apologies for denseness)

Collapse and create. Them's the actuals.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:34 pm

If May wins, even with a relatively modest majority, she will have strengthened her hand as she will have won a mandate for what she wants to do, thus reducing the lack of a Tory majority in the Lords as an issue, and she will have bought herself a couple of extra years post-Brexit. Very important breathing space for her, I suspect. Not winning a landslide would certainly be disappointing, but a new majority of 40-50 would be considered more than worth the negatives of looking a little clumsy on the campaign trail, I would imagine. If Labour want to stuff up her plans, they need it to be close enough for her backbenchers to continue to be trouble. Is that remotely possible?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:39 pm

@HindleA

Have just returned and am reading the posts in reverse order. (Not backwards - as I originally typed. That would be silly. And quite difficult.)

Correct. Collapse and create. (That's not an instruction.)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:40 pm

Is there a prize?

?ezirp a ereht sI

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:41 pm

I disagree Willow - if she carries on as she is now she will still possibly win but her standing will be damaged

She is just not very good and she is going to be under a lot of pressure if she wins and the press may not be quite so deferential

Any sort of majority for her would be good enough - she could have managed on what she had as she has not lost any votes in the Commons, it has been the Lords that have held her up

Her backbenchers are cowards - where were they in the A50 debate when the amendments were put forward? They even agreed with them but still voted against

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:42 pm

HindleA wrote:Is there are prize?

Definitely not. It's not in the manifesto. Although I may not do a u-turn on that, and provide one.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:45 pm

xollob