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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:00 pm 
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While there are STILL folk on Twitter whinging about the lack of opposition from Labour.

Presumably half of them are trolls and the other half, well.....


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:11 pm 
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A propos, I love this [the Tweet mentioned doesn't need repeating]

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SpinningHugo@SpinningHugo
Jun 16

We at the Hugo collective endorse this tweet


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 6:34 pm 
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adam wrote:
Again

Quote:
May says the 10-year plan for the NHS must involve a comprehensive plan for the workforce. The workforce needs to be more flexible, she says.


I bet she does.


More flexible than mass self and semi employment and zero hour contracts?

Quote:
https://wol.iza.org/articles/self-emplo ... tries/long

Most workers in low- and middle-income countries are self-employed, but earnings are typically higher and social protection programs are more widespread in wage employment.

Most workers are self-employed because they have no choice.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 8:12 pm 
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PSSST !

Could someone please explain to me how and why radioactive isotopes cannot be imported from EUROPE after brexit ?


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Could Omar be the world’s longest cat? – video

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... -cat-video


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 8:43 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
PSSST !

Could someone please explain to me how and why radioactive isotopes cannot be imported from EUROPE after brexit ?



Hope that this goes some way to helping -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-40571853


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 9:07 pm 
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"" In the UK they are imported, often from Belgium and the Netherlands. Some experts worry that leaving the treaty will delay the delivery of drugs to patients who need them. Global demand for isotopes is rising rapidly, and many of the reactors that produce them are getting old.""

Which did not explain that much ?

Project Fear ?


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 9:21 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
"" In the UK they are imported, often from Belgium and the Netherlands. Some experts worry that leaving the treaty will delay the delivery of drugs to patients who need them. Global demand for isotopes is rising rapidly, and many of the reactors that produce them are getting old.""

Which did not explain that much ?

Project Fear ?


I'll have a look for some links in a bit but as I understand it (and I'm no expert but I've tried to read around it...)

1. We gave notice to leave Euratom as part of our (our parallel to) our Article 50 notice so we're leaving on 29th March 2019 (essentially, so far as I can make out, because Euratom is under the governance of the ECJ)
2. Our government have repeatedly asserted that medical isotopes are not covered by the Euratom treaty and there will be no problem with a continued supply.
3 Everybody else involved that I have read, including our nuclear regulators, UK doctors and doctor's bodies, and EU bodies, all say that medical isotopes are entirely subject to the treaty and without an agreement supply will grind to a halt. The most commonly used stuff has a half life of a couple of days so there is no possibility at all of stockpiling supplies.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Good piece from the Indie with an even better headline

Dimbleby is leaving Question Time. Hopefully the audience is next

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 9:28 pm 
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adam wrote:
Good piece from the Indie with an even better headline

Dimbleby is leaving Question Time. Hopefully the audience is next


Ha! (From your linked article) -

"For reasons that have never been made clear, Question Time, the BBC’s weekly bold interpretation on the 15-minute hate from 1984, is often described as “essential viewing”."


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 9:41 pm 
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From an FT article in July last year (that doesn't appear to be paywalled)

Quote:
EU officials and experts have warned the government not to dismiss the impact of Brexit on Britain’s access to the radioactive isotopes used to diagnose and treat cancer.

The UK government has rejected as “scaremongering” claims that withdrawing from the European nuclear regulator Euratom could interrupt trade in medical isotopes.

The UK position is based on the uncontested fact that medical isotopes — used in about 700,000 medical procedures in the UK each year — are not subject to the most stringent European safeguards governing “special fissile materials”. But EU officials and independent experts said these isotopes would be subject to wider Euratom rules on the trade and transportation of nuclear materials after Brexit.

“The transport of isotopes across borders is regulated so it is not something you can send in a package with DHL or FedEx and expect to be delivered the next day,” said Wim Oyen, president-elect of the European Association of Nuclear Medicine.

Following departure from Euratom, the UK will need to strike new regulatory agreements with the EU and other trading partners to continue importing nuclear materials. Such agreements will only be possible, said EU officials and other experts, if the UK creates a new regulatory system — including inspections and monitoring of UK nuclear facilities — that adequately replaces Euratom.

“While medical isotopes are not classed as special fissile material and so not subject to safeguarding provisions, it is not accurate to say that Euratom has no impact,” said Tom Greatrex, chief executive of the UK Nuclear Industry Association. “They are subject to the [Euratom] treaty.”


And here is

The BMA's opinion
A statement from the British Nuclear Medicine Society
A Nuclear Industry Association statement about the whole Euratom shebang that deals with medical uses in Section 3
Full Fact's findings on the question

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Solutions to the March 2019 Eurotom cliff edge problem:

1) Create our own alternative and get international approval within next 10 months

2) Negotiate unprecedented bespoke non-EU cover by Eurotom and get approved and ratified within the next 10 months

3) Extend article 50

4) Revoke article 50


I suspect no. 1 is impossible. No. 2 will require us to get a serious move on (but may also be impossible, given how integrated Eurotom is with the EU institutions). No. 3 is so obvious and sensible the EU are still scratching their heads as to why we haven't broached it yet and as for No. 4 - in your dreams, basically.

So personally I'm stumped. I really can't fathom how the government expect to deal with this. The EU and UK can continue with pretty much everything else as it was during transition as a straightforward agreement between us and them but my understanding is that we are only covered by Eurotom as an EU member and because it is overseen by an international body any change to that arrangement has to be approved at an international level, which takes time.

Which leaves 3 & 4 as possible but unlikely or chaos. We're headed for chaos, aren't we?

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
We're headed for chaos, aren't we?


I think so. I know everyone keeps saying 'ah, they always pull something out at the last minute to sort things out' and 'nobody will allow the worst to happen' but I can't see how so many things can be resolved in so little time when we appear so far apart.

There are some significant issues with extending the Article 50 period - mainly that we will have to either invent some kind of 'in but not in' state (that the rest of the EU seem determined will not happen lest it becomes a default end-state) or we'll have to take part in the EU parliament elections in the later spring of 2019, and that if we are still EU members after 2020 then we need to involved in deciding and paying into the next budget period that starts then. I don't think it's a given at all that we can extend Article 50.

I'm also not convinced that we can revoke it, simply because it would need agreement from everybody and it seems unlikely everybody would be happy with us reverting to the, shall we say, cake and eat it situation we've come to enjoy over the years.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 10:15 pm 
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adam wrote:
frog222 wrote:
"" In the UK they are imported, often from Belgium and the Netherlands. Some experts worry that leaving the treaty will delay the delivery of drugs to patients who need them. Global demand for isotopes is rising rapidly, and many of the reactors that produce them are getting old.""

Which did not explain that much ?

Project Fear ?


I'll have a look for some links in a bit but as I understand it (and I'm no expert but I've tried to read around it...)

1. We gave notice to leave Euratom as part of our (our parallel to) our Article 50 notice so we're leaving on 29th March 2019 (essentially, so far as I can make out, because Euratom is under the governance of the ECJ)
2. Our government have repeatedly asserted that medical isotopes are not covered by the Euratom treaty and there will be no problem with a continued supply.



3 Everybody else involved that I have read, including our nuclear regulators, UK doctors and doctor's bodies, and EU bodies, all say that medical isotopes are entirely subject to the treaty and without an agreement supply will grind to a halt. The most commonly used stuff has a half life of a couple of days so there is no possibility at all of stockpiling supplies.
[/b][/b]


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 10:29 pm 
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adam wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
We're headed for chaos, aren't we?


I think so. I know everyone keeps saying 'ah, they always pull something out at the last minute to sort things out' and 'nobody will allow the worst to happen' but I can't see how so many things can be resolved in so little time when we appear so far apart.

There are some significant issues with extending the Article 50 period - mainly that we will have to either invent some kind of 'in but not in' state (that the rest of the EU seem determined will not happen lest it becomes a default end-state) or we'll have to take part in the EU parliament elections in the later spring of 2019, and that if we are still EU members after 2020 then we need to involved in deciding and paying into the next budget period that starts then. I don't think it's a given at all that we can extend Article 50.

I'm also not convinced that we can revoke it, simply because it would need agreement from everybody and it seems unlikely everybody would be happy with us reverting to the, shall we say, cake and eat it situation we've come to enjoy over the years.


Yes, agree with all of that. Extending article 50 is sensible for us and the EU have been expecting us to ask, but I agree they would be reluctant for all the above, especially as we could have done the prep for this before triggering article 50 if we had half a clue what we're doing. I'm possibly a little more optimistic about the likelihood of getting agreement to revoke article 50 or being able to unilaterally (which it seems can only be tested in law by doing so), but not by much.

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 10:33 pm 
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And on that rather depressing note, I'll bid you all goodnight.

At least Alonso won Le Mans - sorry, I meant -at least England won at the football ;)

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 10:33 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -oxenholme
"Vintage train company steps in to reopen Lake District line"
One for any Tim Farron fans:-
https://mobile.twitter.com/timfarron/st ... 77/photo/1


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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jun, 2018 10:49 pm 
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tinybgoat wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/18/lake-district-line-northern-rail-windermere-oxenholme
"Vintage train company steps in to reopen Lake District line"
One for any Tim Farron fans:-
https://mobile.twitter.com/timfarron/st ... 77/photo/1


Any (other) takers for your second link? (Confession - I looked at it!)


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Jun, 2018 7:28 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/18/lake-district-line-northern-rail-windermere-oxenholme
"Vintage train company steps in to reopen Lake District line"
One for any Tim Farron fans:-
https://mobile.twitter.com/timfarron/st ... 77/photo/1


Any (other) takers for your second link? (Confession - I looked at it!)

Wisely you didn't thank for the post, so I think your reputation's unsullied.


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