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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 6:03 am 
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 6:43 am 
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Rubbish article on added sugar !

" Moore noted that the values only reflect the total sugar content, as labels do not separate naturally occurring sugars such as lactose from added sugars, but said the research suggests approximately 5g of sugar per 100g can be thought of as largely being lactose, with levels above that coming from added sugar."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... tudy-finds

I mistakenly bought vanilla flavoured yogurt instead of plain. Finished one and reached immediately for the next , which I would never normally do. I looked at the VERY small print, and each small 125g pot contained some vanilla essence and the equivalent of two large sugar lumps.

No wonder increasing numbers of children are having extractions under general anaesthetic in hospital.

But of course a sugar tax is bad for business !


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 6:47 am 
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From last night --
"Let’s be very clear what Barnier’s new comments mean.

1) Chequers is still dead. There’s no chance of single market in goods without free movement of people

2) Customs partnership also still dead. EU focusing on tech solutions for border in Irish Sea, not on island of Ireland"

https://twitter.com/jonlis1


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 6:50 am 
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The Tory Long Term Plan for Housing
They are going to spend £billions some time around 2022. When they might not even be in government.


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 6:54 am 
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Morning

Still chuckling at PorFavor's post about the Lib Dem who said he thought Cable was saying things other leaders didn't :lol:

This is not a gripping read, but it does feel like a reasonably well-informed account of Labour's stance on Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... emy-corbyn


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:17 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-t ... ion-summit

"…We should never see social housing as something that need simply be “good enough”, nor think that the people who live in it should be grateful for their safety net and expect no better"

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:22 am 
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Rooms for care are spare.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:40 am 
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https://www.involve.org.uk/resources/bl ... ion-income

WHAT ABOUT A PARTICIPATION INCOME?

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:44 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/have ... gotiations


News story

Have your say on the UK's future trade negotiations

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:48 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us#history

Guidance

75% business rates retention pilots 2019 to 2020: prospectus
Invitation to local authorities to pilot 75% business rates retention in 2019 to 2020.

(Updated)

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:57 am 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ember-2018

accounting officers September 2018
Letter sent from Eileen Milner, chief executive of the Education and Skills Funding Agency, to academy trusts in September 2018.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 8:19 am 
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https://labourlist.org/2018/09/revealed ... proposals/

Quote:
National Structures: Leadership Elections

The last democracy review draft put forward the ‘10-plus’ model (10% of the PLP/EPLP; or 10% of Constituency Labour Parties plus 5% of PLP/EPLP; 0r 10% of affiliated trade unions plus 5% of PLP/EPLP) for nominations in leadership elections. That was similar to Momentum’s ‘10-10-10’ recommendation. But a new suggestion would see an “and” criteria, requiring 5% of CLPs, and three affiliates (at least two unions), and 10% of PLP/EPLP. The same would go for deputy leadership contests.


Has not gone down well with either Momentum or centrist MPs, apparently, according to the G.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... for-a-year

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 9:19 am 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion=true

Quote:
Moment of truth: Labour's fraught path to MPs' crucial Brexit vote.......

.......Privately, some Labour MPs believe the six tests were set up as a figleaf to allow the party to reject just about any deal as a “Tory Brexit”, in the hope of triggering a general election and catapulting Corbyn into Downing Street.


I'm really struggling with this idea. If Labour rejects May's withdrawal deal (assuming she gets one) how can they ensure this is followed by a general election rather than, say, May being deposed as leader and replaced by a Brexiter willing to take us out with no deal?

This was the whole significance of Dominic Grieve folding over the meaningful vote. The meaningful vote amendments were about ensuring parliament got to decide what happens if a withdrawal agreement is rejected. Without it, the executive gets to decide what happens and if May is defeated that could mean a new PM with an unprecedented degree of power conferred via the withdrawal bill. At which point Labour would be relying on Tory MPs voting no confidence in a Tory government and voting for an election they will most likely lose.

Risking a no deal Brexit for the possibility of a GE (which it cannot be guaranteed Labour will win) against accepting a withdrawal agreement that maintains cordial relations with the EU and secures a two year transition period?

If I were an MP I'm not sure it's a gamble I could live with, especially as any deal the EU is happy with is unlikely to be objectionable and will certainly be considerably better than leaving with no deal at all.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 10:01 am 
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https://twitter.com/Raphael_Hogarth/sta ... 2452814848

This is an interesting thread that shows how Parliament may have more options when presented with a Brexit agreement than May's assertion of "my way or bust". It's based on the idea that MPs will have an opportunity to amend a withdrawal agreement placed before them for approval. They won't be able to change it, but if the soft Brexit bloc within parliament were able to work together, they could lay down a marker on what our future relationship will be:

Attachment:
tweet.PNG
tweet.PNG [ 70.52 KiB | Viewed 806 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 10:27 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://labourlist.org/2018/09/revealed-labours-new-democracy-review-proposals/

Quote:
National Structures: Leadership Elections

The last democracy review draft put forward the ‘10-plus’ model (10% of the PLP/EPLP; or 10% of Constituency Labour Parties plus 5% of PLP/EPLP; 0r 10% of affiliated trade unions plus 5% of PLP/EPLP) for nominations in leadership elections. That was similar to Momentum’s ‘10-10-10’ recommendation. But a new suggestion would see an “and” criteria, requiring 5% of CLPs, and three affiliates (at least two unions), and 10% of PLP/EPLP. The same would go for deputy leadership contests.


Has not gone down well with either Momentum or centrist MPs, apparently, according to the G.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... for-a-year


Yes, this appears classic "trying to please everybody and actually satisfying nobody" territory.

Some suspect the hand of Watson.......


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 10:57 am 
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I read it as a trade unionist seeking to regain some influence on the nomination and selection process for the Labour leadership for unions, who saw their input reduced in previous reforms and have been overshadowed of late by the Momentum movement.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 11:04 am 
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RIP Denis Norden.


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 11:22 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://twitter.com/Raphael_Hogarth/status/1041717412452814848

This is an interesting thread that shows how Parliament may have more options when presented with a Brexit agreement than May's assertion of "my way or bust". It's based on the idea that MPs will have an opportunity to amend a withdrawal agreement placed before them for approval. They won't be able to change it, but if the soft Brexit bloc within parliament were able to work together, they could lay down a marker on what our future relationship will be:

Attachment:
tweet.PNG


We come back to the issue of the European Parliament elections in May 2019 which would be obliged to take part in if we were still members of the EU then. I wonder, again, if the point will come when the EU will invite us to withdraw the article 50 notice and come back when we think we're ready rather than allow us to extend the notice period. The problem with inviting or allowing us to sit out elections we should be taking part in is it's starting to create the kind of exceptions that we're sniffing around for.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 11:27 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
I read it as a trade unionist seeking to regain some influence on the nomination and selection process for the Labour leadership for unions, who saw their input reduced in previous reforms and have been overshadowed of late by the Momentum movement.


And the party's deputy leader has some influence in certain unions still.


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 11:53 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
I read it as a trade unionist seeking to regain some influence on the nomination and selection process for the Labour leadership for unions, who saw their input reduced in previous reforms and have been overshadowed of late by the Momentum movement.


And the party's deputy leader has some influence in certain unions still.


Even if true, does it even matter?

Surely the proposal should be considered on its merits (or lack of them) rather than rumours of who may or may not favour it.

And it doesn't seem especially unreasonable to me, if a little complicated.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 11:56 am 
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adam wrote:
.
We come back to the issue of the European Parliament elections in May 2019 which would be obliged to take part in if we were still members of the EU then. .

I've seen lot of comments from apparently well-informed people to the effect that, compared to the other conundrums around Brexit, EP elections are a minor glitch and not likely to be a deal-breaker. UK would hold the elections and it would be agreed that the MEPs terms would finish when we left.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 11:58 am 
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gilsey wrote:
adam wrote:
.
We come back to the issue of the European Parliament elections in May 2019 which would be obliged to take part in if we were still members of the EU then. .

I've seen lot of comments from apparently well-informed people to the effect that, compared to the other conundrums around Brexit, EP elections are a minor glitch and not likely to be a deal-breaker. UK would hold the elections and it would be agreed that the MEPs terms would finish when we left.


That's interesting -I suspect May would be desperate to avoid that happening for fear that a slate of explicitly anti-leave MEPs were elected - in a much less predictable multi-member constituency election - as could happen...

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/19/labour-conference-path-mps-crucial-brexit-vote-jeremy-corbyn?__twitter_impression=true

Quote:
Moment of truth: Labour's fraught path to MPs' crucial Brexit vote.......

.......Privately, some Labour MPs believe the six tests were set up as a figleaf to allow the party to reject just about any deal as a “Tory Brexit”, in the hope of triggering a general election and catapulting Corbyn into Downing Street.


I'm really struggling with this idea. If Labour rejects May's withdrawal deal (assuming she gets one) how can they ensure this is followed by a general election rather than, say, May being deposed as leader and replaced by a Brexiter willing to take us out with no deal?

This was the whole significance of Dominic Grieve folding over the meaningful vote. The meaningful vote amendments were about ensuring parliament got to decide what happens if a withdrawal agreement is rejected. Without it, the executive gets to decide what happens and if May is defeated that could mean a new PM with an unprecedented degree of power conferred via the withdrawal bill. At which point Labour would be relying on Tory MPs voting no confidence in a Tory government and voting for an election they will most likely lose.

Risking a no deal Brexit for the possibility of a GE (which it cannot be guaranteed Labour will win) against accepting a withdrawal agreement that maintains cordial relations with the EU and secures a two year transition period?

If I were an MP I'm not sure it's a gamble I could live with, especially as any deal the EU is happy with is unlikely to be objectionable and will certainly be considerably better than leaving with no deal at all.

I think that's partly right, GE could depend on 'sensible' tories refusing the whip if a Brexiter becomes PM, which some have said they will, but Grieve's past behaviour doesn't give us much confidence in that.
There's an alternative though, which is the DUP abandoning ship - hard brexit isn't going to meet their red lines, which of course are irreconcilable anyway, in a slightly different way to May's red lines.

It's a gamble for the tories to think they could get away with changing the leader but no GE.

Gambling with the future of the country either way, thanks Dave.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 12:08 pm 
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adam wrote:
gilsey wrote:
adam wrote:
.
We come back to the issue of the European Parliament elections in May 2019 which would be obliged to take part in if we were still members of the EU then. .

I've seen lot of comments from apparently well-informed people to the effect that, compared to the other conundrums around Brexit, EP elections are a minor glitch and not likely to be a deal-breaker. UK would hold the elections and it would be agreed that the MEPs terms would finish when we left.


That's interesting -I suspect May would be desperate to avoid that happening for fear that a slate of explicitly anti-leave MEPs were elected - in a much less predictable multi-member constituency election - as could happen...

There are so many things May is desperate to avoid, she's boxed in a hell of her own making.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Good piece on money-laundering from WatO , featuring Bill Browder, the Magnitsky Act, €200Bn of loot cycled through Den Danske Bank and from there to the City and other SeeNoEvil players …

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45571744

Significantly the article does not mention that Browder reported all that to half a dozen British agencies, and no action was taken by any of them.


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 1:24 pm 
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I usually turn Victoria Derbyshire on just before 10am for the weather forecast and news headlines, I was a bit early today and they were talking about brexit so I left it on.

There's a panel of 14, including a couple of businessmen and a lunatic fishing industry person. 3 MPs, one was John Redwood, the others I didn't know but one was George ? supporting May & Chequers and the 3rd was supporting People's vote.

At the end of the discussion, which mainly involved Redwood talking over one or other of the businessmen, V asked the panel what they thought should happen next, the answers fell into 3 categories:
Just get on with it, everything will be fine, best days are ahead etc - this got a small round of applause each time.
Cross-party consensus, politicians should get together and sort something out. Ha.
Peoples Vote, most of these seemed to be Europeans.

What struck me was that no-one was prepared to speak up directly for remaining in the EU. Down to the BBC's panel selection, or is it practically taboo outside of Remain twitter?

Made me think there's something in the Leaver complaint that People's Vote is code for Remain.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 2:10 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
I usually turn Victoria Derbyshire on just before 10am for the weather forecast and news headlines, I was a bit early today and they were talking about brexit so I left it on.

There's a panel of 14, including a couple of businessmen and a lunatic fishing industry person. 3 MPs, one was John Redwood, the others I didn't know but one was George ? supporting May & Chequers and the 3rd was supporting People's vote.

At the end of the discussion, which mainly involved Redwood talking over one or other of the businessmen, V asked the panel what they thought should happen next, the answers fell into 3 categories:
Just get on with it, everything will be fine, best days are ahead etc - this got a small round of applause each time.
Cross-party consensus, politicians should get together and sort something out. Ha.
Peoples Vote, most of these seemed to be Europeans.

What struck me was that no-one was prepared to speak up directly for remaining in the EU. Down to the BBC's panel selection, or is it practically taboo outside of Remain twitter?

Made me think there's something in the Leaver complaint that People's Vote is code for Remain.


I find myself unable to get on board with the people's vote thing, I have to admit. We've already created a mess by asking the public a complicated question they didn't understand (and I'm not being elitist by saying that, I include myself as one of the people who knew very little about the details of our relationship with the EU before the referendum - customs unions, Eurotom and all of that). And, more importantly, it didn't settle anything. We were in with half the population wanting out and in a few months time we will be out with half the population wanting in. I don't see how another referendum will end up any differently, people are still unlikely to fully understand the implications of what they're voting for and we're still likely to end up with a close result that provides no real consensus going forward.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
I read it as a trade unionist seeking to regain some influence on the nomination and selection process for the Labour leadership for unions, who saw their input reduced in previous reforms and have been overshadowed of late by the Momentum movement.


And the party's deputy leader has some influence in certain unions still.


Even if true, does it even matter?

Surely the proposal should be considered on its merits (or lack of them) rather than rumours of who may or may not favour it.

And it doesn't seem especially unreasonable to me, if a little complicated.


I have just been on Twitter and apparently it does matter. The unions are the enemy of the left and these proposals will snuff out Corbynism it seems.

The current NEC with a majority support for Corbyn needs to be replaced by the recently elected NEC with a majority support for Corbyn ASAP in order to put those pesky unions back in their place,which isn't in a left wing Labour Party if Aaron Bastani's Twitter feed is anything to go by.

One suspects the upcoming Labour conference will be a wee bit livelier than the Libdem one.

Is anyone going?

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Dominic Raab living up to the high standards set by Theresa's Government I see :rofl:

Quote:
It’s vital that the British people have clarity and honesty from their elected representatives and, as such, it’s incumbent on you to answer the following questions...


Couldn't even get his name right.


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 3:51 pm 
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Well if you are just going on what Aaron Bastani says, then I see your problem ;)

(he has his good days, but can be terribly........excitable)

Seriously though, critics of the proposals do seem to have a few sound points. 30% of the *entire membership* of any CLP does seem a very high trigger, and the threshold on standing for party leadership elections can actually be argued to have been made tougher than before.

Jon Lansman (who is sometimes willing to compromise, eg on the IHRA business) does not appear happy with the above, so we shall see what happens!


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 4:21 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
I find myself unable to get on board with the people's vote thing, I have to admit.

Nor me really, Parliament got us into this and Parliament should get us out of it, but there are no good options from here.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 4:30 pm 
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This.
Quote:
Phil Syrpis


@syrpis
Sep 18
More
Many do, I think. I'm not sure why. If you, or I, or Labour, want to remain, we should say so, and seek to convince others. Saying that we want to allow people to choose between uncertain options seems... less than straightforward, to me at least.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/1 ... it-riddle/

Disclaimer: I haven't read the article yet.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Quote:
"Dominic Raab, the Brexit secretary, has written an open letter to his Labour shadow, Sir Keir Starmer, challenging him to say that Labour would rule out another referendum on Brexit."
Why you ask, D? You and your party giving up government leadership? If not, run along. Ain't got time for games.


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 4:52 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
I find myself unable to get on board with the people's vote thing, I have to admit.

Nor me really, Parliament got us into this and Parliament should get us out of it, but there are no good options from here.
Exactly

edited to add

If it's a GE, okay.


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 5:06 pm 
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Quote:
Windrush victim and campaigner Sarah O'Connor dies aged 57

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... es-aged-57
Has anyone else read this article or others about O'Connor's recent death? I've finally had an opportunity to read it; I've been busy all day. I'm horrified


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 5:14 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
This.
Quote:
Phil Syrpis


@syrpis
Sep 18
More
Many do, I think. I'm not sure why. If you, or I, or Labour, want to remain, we should say so, and seek to convince others. Saying that we want to allow people to choose between uncertain options seems... less than straightforward, to me at least.

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/1 ... it-riddle/

Disclaimer: I haven't read the article yet.


It's a good article. I agree with a lot of it.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 6:07 pm 
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Electoral semiotic trivia from itma
https://www.theguardian.com/media/short ... ts-mumsnet


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Quote:
Settled and pre-settled status for EU citizens and their families
Who should apply
To be eligible for settled status, you’ll usually need to:
- be an EU citizen, or a family member of an EU citizen
- have been living in the UK continuously for 5 years (‘continuous residence’)
- have started living in the UK by 31 December 2020

Has all this been (for lack of a better word) advertised sufficiently? Do people know? Apparently, it's not going to cost a lot of money applying and it's all going to be done online. The entire guide I've linked from the government website is about eight pages long.
These caught my eye
Quote:
If you’ve lived in the UK for less than 5 years, you’ll generally be eligible for ‘pre-settled status’ instead.
You’ll need to apply even if you’re an EU citizen married to a British citizen.
Rights for citizens of Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Switzerland are still being negotiated.
How long you can live outside the UK is still subject to approval by Parliament.
...your family members from outside the UK and Ireland will need to apply.

This one doesn't inspire confidence.
Quote:
When you should apply
It may be simpler and quicker for you if you do not apply as soon as the scheme opens.
https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 6:46 pm 
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It would seem that Heather Stewart, the Political Editor of the Guardian, is unaware of the history of the Sun and Liverpool. She is questioning why Sun 'journalists' haven't been invited to a Momentum event during the Labour conference. Abi Wilkinson has tried to explain it to her, but it doesn't seem to have gotten through.

DFH has also weighed in, crying 'censorship'.


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:06 pm 
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refitman wrote:
It would seem that Heather Stewart, the Political Editor of the Guardian, is unaware of the history of the Sun and Liverpool. She is questioning why Sun 'journalists' haven't been invited to a Momentum event during the Labour conference. Abi Wilkinson has tried to explain it to her, but it doesn't seem to have gotten through.DFH has also weighed in, crying 'censorship'.

https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/sta ... 8113803264


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Gosh, remember the heady days of Rusbridger's editorship?

*stares wistfully into the distance*


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 8:04 pm 
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refitman wrote:
Gosh, remember the heady days of Rusbridger's editorship?*stares wistfully into the distance*

I DO remember under Rusbridger that young Jessica on WADDYA wrote " We are not a campaigning newspaper." Many people nagged for years to get coverage of the WCA and similar scandals and slowly it came , but never with editorial support ...


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 8:42 pm 
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refitman wrote:
It would seem that Heather Stewart, the Political Editor of the Guardian, is unaware of the history of the Sun and Liverpool. She is questioning why Sun 'journalists' haven't been invited to a Momentum event during the Labour conference. Abi Wilkinson has tried to explain it to her, but it doesn't seem to have gotten through.

DFH has also weighed in, crying 'censorship'.
I hope Stewart is no longer ignorant of the reason
Someone link the scene involving administration of eye drops from A Clockwork Orange to Hodges

edited to add thank you, frog222
:rock:


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 8:57 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
"Dominic Raab, the Brexit secretary, has written an open letter to his Labour shadow, Sir Keir Starmer, challenging him to say that Labour would rule out another referendum on Brexit."
Why you ask, D? You and your party giving up government leadership? If not, run along. Ain't got time for games.



Trolls will love that since that's all they do too.

Any commentary on how their own government is doing on Brexit? No, of course not...

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep, 2018 9:27 pm 
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I doubt if Starmer cares that much but Raab sending him a letter which begins "Dear Mr Starmer" isn't clever...

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