Saturday 3rd & Sunday 4th January 2015

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 8:32 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Back to shoddy media reporting of air accidents.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30665499

Can anybody tell me what Indonesia's weather agency knows about modern aircraft. Why does the media report this stuff without thinking about it?

It is sloppy reporting, but it is possible that the Indonesian's chose their weather agency to make this announcement, rather than another department. You know the Indonesians have a thriving (state owned) aerospace industry, producing parts for several companies, licence building some products & co-developing others (mainly with CASA/EADS). But it could just be more meaningless speculation.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 8:38 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
HindleA wrote:Reposting this from last night.
Annoyingly for me no commenting facility.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... -coalition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re."meals on wheels"
Hence the vast increase in telly adverts for all those companies who prepare and deliver ready meals on a subscription basis, eg., Wiltshire Farm Foods. My local council's 'Meals on Wheels' page simply suggests ways you might get help preparing meals or ordering ready meals then lists info and links to two charitable lunch clubs (one operating Saturday only, the other doing Friday and Saturday,) supermarket delivery services, local milk-plus delivery service, a range of commercial food services (including the example above,) and the local shop-mobility centre ~ to help you go shopping.

I don't know when they stopped the actual Meals on Wheels service but I think it was a few years ago ~ it being a 'flagship Tory Council' and all
Haven't had much to do with food provision, but an old couple we used to visit every couple of weeks used Wiltshire Farm Foods and from what I could see it looked fairly appetizing, but was bloody expensive. They used to buy a meal for one and share it. Not good.

One of my clients is a lovely elderly gent who lost his wife last year. He was dwindling away at a rate of knots from grief and not looking after himself or cooking regular meals etc - so his daughters made sure he gets a delivery of the equivalent of Wiltshire Farm Foods meals organised via Ceredigion Council. It costs a fortune. I hope they are good because for what he pays for one meal - more than £4.50 if my memory serves me right - he could be buying the better ready meals from the supermarkets. They don't call every day ... it's a bulk delivery for the month - so he's expected to have a freezer that will fit them all in.

I like to keep in touch even when it's not the gardening season as he is quite delightful and Mr Riots and I think it's important for him to feel people care about his wellbeing. So I drove over in the Christmas interlude with a card and a pot of homemade jam. He wasn't there so I assumed he was at his daughter's and left the card and jam on his doorstep. We got an almost tearful phonecall from him when he returned because he was so touched to come back and find it there. I just hope it made him feel valued ... because he is.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 8:44 pm

Even better that bloody road is in Weimar ...

Gisela retweeted
Michael H. ‏@MichaelH14 1h1 hour ago
#c4news confirms that the original #RoadToRuin pic was taken by a German photographer near his Weimar home ...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 8:45 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Faisal Islam
‏@faisalislam
further confusion for left-right political lens, c-right thinktank Civitas calls for inflation cap on private rents: http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/thefutureofprivaterenting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
It's a good report. Chairman Shapps (former housing minister) and the benefit blamers at the DWP, and Osborne with his awful inflationary housing policies .... should take note.

If you read the conclusion (which I tend to do first just to see where they're coming from) it says:

Having grown so large, it is not possible simply to remove housing benefit subsidies without leaving tenants high and dry. So the objective must be to limit and reduce housing benefit over time while providing a new safety net for those tenants who have not done as well out of the property boom as others.

There you go - that's the primary objective and why this was written in the first place. If housing benefit didn't exist then this report wouldn't have been written (IMHO).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 8:52 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Faisal Islam
‏@faisalislam
further confusion for left-right political lens, c-right thinktank Civitas calls for inflation cap on private rents: http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/thefutureofprivaterenting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
It's a good report. Chairman Shapps (former housing minister) and the benefit blamers at the DWP, and Osborne with his awful inflationary housing policies .... should take note.
If you read the conclusion (which I tend to do first just to see where they're coming from) it says:

Having grown so large, it is not possible simply to remove housing benefit subsidies without leaving tenants high and dry. So the objective must be to limit and reduce housing benefit over time while providing a new safety net for those tenants who have not done as well out of the property boom as others.
There you go - that's the primary objective and why this was written in the first place. If housing benefit didn't exist then this report wouldn't have been written (IMHO).

It's quite sanguine about housing benefit and it's impact on rents but also makes it clear that it is landlords that benefit from and inflate this system ... but also very clear throughout that it is not just about housing benefit or rent controls but many different factors combining (including subsidies to various parts of the market) to make housing unaffordable and insecure for far too many people. The conclusions / recommendations are worth reading. I'm not quite as cynical about this as you. I maybe should be ... but in a good mood this evening.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:00 pm

Evening all.

Not very well today so I've just been lurking now and then.

Went a bit bonkers on Twitter earlier for the #RoadToRuin Twitter Storm - trending at No.1 within an hour.

I wonder what Crosby would pay for that sort of coverage......

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:00 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:Back to shoddy media reporting of air accidents.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30665499

Can anybody tell me what Indonesia's weather agency knows about modern aircraft. Why does the media report this stuff without thinking about it?
It is sloppy reporting, but it is possible that the Indonesian's chose their weather agency to make this announcement, rather than another department. You know the Indonesians have a thriving (state owned) aerospace industry, producing parts for several companies, licence building some products & co-developing others (mainly with CASA/EADS). But it could just be more meaningless speculation.

Cripes, I hope their quality assurance is policed. Indonesia is a mess when it comes to aviation. Very weak oversight and the usual levels of corruption.

The list of banned (in the EU) airlines is huge, in part reflecting rapid growth in a corrupt country.

In the case of the weather authority, somebody was shooting their mouth off. Until they get the FDR they cannot have a clue whether the flight encountered severe weather.

Air France 447 was assumed to be weather related, turned out not to be.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:06 pm

Toby Latimer wrote:Bloody foreign roads, coming over here taking over our deceitful Vermin party propaganda

Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes · 1m1 minute ago
These German roads, coming over here, taking our posters...

Wonder if he reads here ?

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:09 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Tell us more, RearOTS.

One thing that looks odd about the current system is the role of DfT.

Train procurement has been nationalized, but why are the DfT doing it, and not Network Rail? The National Audit office said they ought to work more closely with Network Rail. Why not go further?

Hi Tubby
I think there is so much to talk about and I want to give it proper consideration but I will try to write something about my feelings on the shortcomings of the present system in the near future although I have no desire to bore people to death!
However I would say that I believe the industry now has serious safety issues and, whilst I hope I am wrong, I think serious incidents will increase during the next few years.

Network Rail are responsible for just permanent way, buildings and signalling, not train operation (although they still are responsible for Commercial Operation of a few Major Stations). Even in BR days train specification was a commercial activity, different from Maintenance Engineers, Civil Engineers and Property (and none the worse for it). The problem is that the Rolling Stock Companies ROSCOs created at privatisation are just finance houses who own stock and lease out.

As to the problems highlighted about how unfit some rolling stock is for purpose well I agree. Pacers (Class 140/141)s were produced in the 80s as a low cost short term solution on commuter routes based on Leyland National Bus bodies. They are now principally operated by Northern but a new contract has just been placed to replace them all. Transpennine only operate 170s , 185s (Diesel Trains) and the brand new 350/4 Electric trains. In my opinion these Diesel Trains are inappropriate for intercity journeys such as Newcastle to Liverpool however as electrification is rolled out to Blackpool Liverpool etc these units will be replaced by 350s which I think are pretty good. We will never ever return to Loco hauled Coaching Stock which is too expensive, unreliable and inflexible.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:09 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:Back to shoddy media reporting of air accidents.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30665499

Can anybody tell me what Indonesia's weather agency knows about modern aircraft. Why does the media report this stuff without thinking about it?
It is sloppy reporting, but it is possible that the Indonesian's chose their weather agency to make this announcement, rather than another department. You know the Indonesians have a thriving (state owned) aerospace industry, producing parts for several companies, licence building some products & co-developing others (mainly with CASA/EADS). But it could just be more meaningless speculation.
Cripes, I hope their quality assurance is policed. Indonesia is a mess when it comes to aviation. Very weak oversight and the usual levels of corruption.

The list of banned (in the EU) airlines is huge, in part reflecting rapid growth in a corrupt country.

In the case of the weather authority, somebody was shooting their mouth off. Until they get the FDR they cannot have a clue whether the flight encountered severe weather.

Air France 447 was assumed to be weather related, turned out not to be.

Oh, didn't say the airlines were any good. But ITPN seem to be ok; public versus private sector again.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:18 pm

Great from Mike Sivier.

Fact trumps Tory fiction on the #RoadToRuin ‘Twitterstorm’
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/01/0 ... tterstorm/

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:29 pm

rearofthestore wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Tell us more, RearOTS.

One thing that looks odd about the current system is the role of DfT.

Train procurement has been nationalized, but why are the DfT doing it, and not Network Rail? The National Audit office said they ought to work more closely with Network Rail. Why not go further?
Hi Tubby
I think there is so much to talk about and I want to give it proper consideration but I will try to write something about my feelings on the shortcomings of the present system in the near future although I have no desire to bore people to death!
However I would say that I believe the industry now has serious safety issues and, whilst I hope I am wrong, I think serious incidents will increase during the next few years.

Network Rail are responsible for just permanent way, buildings and signalling, not train operation (although they still are responsible for Commercial Operation of a few Major Stations). Even in BR days train specification was a commercial activity, different from Maintenance Engineers, Civil Engineers and Property (and none the worse for it). The problem is that the Rolling Stock Companies ROSCOs created at privatisation are just finance houses who own stock and lease out.

As to the problems highlighted about how unfit some rolling stock is for purpose well I agree. Pacers (Class 140/141)s were produced in the 80s as a low cost short term solution on commuter routes based on Leyland National Bus bodies. They are now principally operated by Northern but a new contract has just been placed to replace them all. Transpennine only operate 170s , 185s (Diesel Trains) and the brand new 350/4 Electric trains. In my opinion these Diesel Trains are inappropriate for intercity journeys such as Newcastle to Liverpool however as electrification is rolled out to Blackpool Liverpool etc these units will be replaced by 350s which I think are pretty good. We will never ever return to Loco hauled Coaching Stock which is too expensive, unreliable and inflexible.

You won't bore me, I can assure you.

Safety has seemed to be very good lately, but overcrowding on commuter trains looks like a very bad accident to happen. Is that what you're thinking of primarily?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:29 pm

Schools need freedom to thrive. Labour will offer it

Radical reform of Ofsted, with its relentless box-ticking and political agenda, is the first step towards a fairer system
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... unt-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:31 pm

ephemerid wrote:Evening all.

Not very well today so I've just been lurking now and then.

Went a bit bonkers on Twitter earlier for the #RoadToRuin Twitter Storm - trending at No.1 within an hour.

I wonder what Crosby would pay for that sort of coverage......

I don't know if he cares much about Twitter. I got the impression (albeit from Hodges) that Shapps was the one they swooned around and said "You're so clever with computers"

I think Crosby's "this lot want to give your money to darkies", judging by Johnson's campaigns.

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:33 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Tell us more, RearOTS.

One thing that looks odd about the current system is the role of DfT.

Train procurement has been nationalized, but why are the DfT doing it, and not Network Rail? The National Audit office said they ought to work more closely with Network Rail. Why not go further?
Hi Tubby
I think there is so much to talk about and I want to give it proper consideration but I will try to write something about my feelings on the shortcomings of the present system in the near future although I have no desire to bore people to death!
However I would say that I believe the industry now has serious safety issues and, whilst I hope I am wrong, I think serious incidents will increase during the next few years.

Network Rail are responsible for just permanent way, buildings and signalling, not train operation (although they still are responsible for Commercial Operation of a few Major Stations). Even in BR days train specification was a commercial activity, different from Maintenance Engineers, Civil Engineers and Property (and none the worse for it). The problem is that the Rolling Stock Companies ROSCOs created at privatisation are just finance houses who own stock and lease out.

As to the problems highlighted about how unfit some rolling stock is for purpose well I agree. Pacers (Class 140/141)s were produced in the 80s as a low cost short term solution on commuter routes based on Leyland National Bus bodies. They are now principally operated by Northern but a new contract has just been placed to replace them all. Transpennine only operate 170s , 185s (Diesel Trains) and the brand new 350/4 Electric trains. In my opinion these Diesel Trains are inappropriate for intercity journeys such as Newcastle to Liverpool however as electrification is rolled out to Blackpool Liverpool etc these units will be replaced by 350s which I think are pretty good. We will never ever return to Loco hauled Coaching Stock which is too expensive, unreliable and inflexible.
You won't bore me, I can assure you.

Safety has seemed to be very good lately, but overcrowding on commuter trains looks like a very bad accident to happen. Is that what you're thinking of primarily?

Actually you are right about overcrowding however my concerns are about track maintenance/renewals and new contracts recently let.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:34 pm

@PF - very sorry to be the bearer of such bad news.

UKIP wants disgraced Tory MP Neil Hamilton to stand in General Election
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk ... ar_twitter
... UKIP has hatched a new plot to parachute in disgraced former Tory MP Neil Hamilton to stand for them at the General Election.

He was forced to quit politics 17 years ago after a cash-for-questions probe heard he had taken £25,000 in brown envelopes to lobby Parliament for the then Harrods owner Mohamed al-Fayed.

A leaked top-level report to UKIP’s ruling national executive committee – seen by the Sunday Mirror – recommends he should fight the target marginal seat of Portsmouth South in May.

It is the third potential seat Mr Hamilton has been lined up for. Bids last year to stand in Boston and Skegness, and Basildon were shelved after claims of quarrels over strategy within the party...
Portsmouth South is held by former Lib Dem Mike Hancock, who was forced to quit his party and become an independent after a sex scandal...

What on earth have the people of Portsmouth South done to deserve this? It's enough to make you disgusted with mainstream politics and opt for a party of protest ... oh, damn, Ukip and the Lib Dems were both meant to fulfil that purpose.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:35 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote: Hence the vast increase in telly adverts for all those companies who prepare and deliver ready meals on a subscription basis, eg., Wiltshire Farm Foods. My local council's 'Meals on Wheels' page simply suggests ways you might get help preparing meals or ordering ready meals then lists info and links to two charitable lunch clubs (one operating Saturday only, the other doing Friday and Saturday,) supermarket delivery services, local milk-plus delivery service, a range of commercial food services (including the example above,) and the local shop-mobility centre ~ to help you go shopping.

I don't know when they stopped the actual Meals on Wheels service but I think it was a few years ago ~ it being a 'flagship Tory Council' and all
Haven't had much to do with food provision, but an old couple we used to visit every couple of weeks used Wiltshire Farm Foods and from what I could see it looked fairly appetizing, but was bloody expensive. They used to buy a meal for one and share it. Not good.
One of my clients is a lovely elderly gent who lost his wife last year. He was dwindling away at a rate of knots from grief and not looking after himself or cooking regular meals etc - so his daughters made sure he gets a delivery of the equivalent of Wiltshire Farm Foods meals organised via Ceredigion Council. It costs a fortune. I hope they are good because for what he pays for one meal - more than £4.50 if my memory serves me right - he could be buying the better ready meals from the supermarkets. They don't call every day ... it's a bulk delivery for the month - so he's expected to have a freezer that will fit them all in.

I like to keep in touch even when it's not the gardening season as he is quite delightful and Mr Riots and I think it's important for him to feel people care about his wellbeing. So I drove over in the Christmas interlude with a card and a pot of homemade jam. He wasn't there so I assumed he was at his daughter's and left the card and jam on his doorstep. We got an almost tearful phonecall from him when he returned because he was so touched to come back and find it there. I just hope it made him feel valued ... because he is.

Our old couple died within a couple of months of each other nearly three years ago. I really miss them. The wife had a rare sense of humour. I'd have been happy to have her as my second mum.
One year they were sorting out their Christmas menu with Wiltshire Foods and it came to something over £60. It was nothing exotic. I was shocked.
I used to take them a bit of homemade food and always included something for their dog. The wife died first, and when her husband died a couple of months later, we took over Muffin a cocker spaniel, who was fourteen years old and in a bit of a state. What family they had didn't want her or seem to know what to do with her, so we took her in. The last few years of their life they'd let her care go, we often offered to take her to be clipped and for a vets check up, because they weren't up to it, but he was so fiercely independent he wouldn't accept any help except for official carers to get his wife in and out of bed. I took Muffin to the vets but she was so far gone with her heart that she wouldn't have stood up to other treatment that was needed, so it was time to see her out. I seem to have done a lot of that in my life.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:36 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... unt-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

schools-freedom-ofsted-tristram-hunt-labour

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:43 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Thanks Tizme, sums up my point beautifully.

No problem GS. Honestly, the stories I could tell you about the 'carers' would make your hair curl. I was forever on their backs, and complained on numerous occasions to Southend Adult Care Services, only to be told they were among the better firms offering 'carer' services! Roseanne who did mum's bit of housework, Sue mum's hairdresser, Cath the mobile librarian, and the Meals on Wheels team, have all at various times contacted me regarding major problems. Even David, mum's chiropodist has alerted me to concerns. Thing is, the Meals on Wheels team visited daily which meant I could be sure someone who actually bloody cared was going in at least once each day. It comes to something though when the mobile librarian 'phones to tell you that they've pitched up at your mother's to find the ambulance there but the para medics don't know who called them out. Turned out that for once the carer had called the ambulance, but then left without waiting for it to arrive and neither she nor the office thought to let me know.

When my children were little, my [ex] husband and I used to try and arrange our work around them and each other but sometimes that wasn't possible so I'd have to have a child minder. I chose to pay over the odds because our requirements could change and I wanted to reflect that in the payment I made. But more importantly, at that time, I considered the Child Minder in many ways the most important person in my life [outside of my family - natch]. As the years went by and I no longer needed Child Minder's, mum's needs increased and her carers became the most important people. Or they should have been. The fact is they weren't good enough and it was Meals on Wheels [and others] that saved the day more than once. In terms of pure cost, sure they were more expensive than buying in ready meals. In terms of a bit of peace of mind, they were invaluable.

Whew! Sorry I'm straying in to 'rant mode' but I feel so strongly about this.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:44 pm

Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 7m7 minutes ago
Just listening to Roy Orbison singing She's a Mystery to Me - absolute classic!

I'm saying nothing (unlike him).

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:49 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 7m7 minutes ago
Just listening to Roy Orbison singing She's a Mystery to Me - absolute classic!
I'm saying nothing (unlike him).

Sometimes difficult to tell the difference between the real Danczuk and the spoof account but, on balance, the spoof account comes across as saner.

https://twitter.com/Simon_Danczuk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:50 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
HindleA wrote:Reposting this from last night.
Annoyingly for me no commenting facility.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... -coalition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re."meals on wheels"
Hence the vast increase in telly adverts for all those companies who prepare and deliver ready meals on a subscription basis, eg., Wiltshire Farm Foods. My local council's 'Meals on Wheels' page simply suggests ways you might get help preparing meals or ordering ready meals then lists info and links to two charitable lunch clubs (one operating Saturday only, the other doing Friday and Saturday,) supermarket delivery services, local milk-plus delivery service, a range of commercial food services (including the example above,) and the local shop-mobility centre ~ to help you go shopping.

I don't know when they stopped the actual Meals on Wheels service but I think it was a few years ago ~ it being a 'flagship Tory Council' and all
Haven't had much to do with food provision, but an old couple we used to visit every couple of weeks used Wiltshire Farm Foods and from what I could see it looked fairly appetizing, but was bloody expensive. They used to buy a meal for one and share it. Not good.

No that isn't good. For the last year or two of his life, my dad used Wiltshire Farm Foods and actually, they were less expensive than my mum's Meals on Wheels. Different circumstances though - dad had nowhere near the same level of need as mum.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:52 pm

Suicides highlight the grim toll of benefits sanctions in austerity Britain
Department for Work and Pensions investigates 60 claimant suicides, with sanctioning connected to crime and depression
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... depression

DWP spokesperson still trotting out the same disgusting obtuse nothing response. No comments facility.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 9:58 pm

Toby Perkins MP ‏@tobyperkinsmp 10m10 minutes ago
Following my visit to support @olivercoppard yesterday, this was my assessment on the @UKpollingreport S Hallam page. http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/ ... ent-138240" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:03 pm

Apparently Casualty had a benefit sanction story .

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:05 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote: Hence the vast increase in telly adverts for all those companies who prepare and deliver ready meals on a subscription basis, eg., Wiltshire Farm Foods. My local council's 'Meals on Wheels' page simply suggests ways you might get help preparing meals or ordering ready meals then lists info and links to two charitable lunch clubs (one operating Saturday only, the other doing Friday and Saturday,) supermarket delivery services, local milk-plus delivery service, a range of commercial food services (including the example above,) and the local shop-mobility centre ~ to help you go shopping.

I don't know when they stopped the actual Meals on Wheels service but I think it was a few years ago ~ it being a 'flagship Tory Council' and all
Haven't had much to do with food provision, but an old couple we used to visit every couple of weeks used Wiltshire Farm Foods and from what I could see it looked fairly appetizing, but was bloody expensive. They used to buy a meal for one and share it. Not good.
No that isn't good. For the last year or two of his life, my dad used Wiltshire Farm Foods and actually, they were less expensive than my mum's Meals on Wheels. Different circumstances though - dad had nowhere near the same level of need as mum.

But I think you've both hit the nail on the head. As always with this Government it has ended up being an argument about cost, with no thought of the value of the service; as with all of these things (like, for example, the withdrawal of some funding for carers, and the impact of the bedroom tax on those same carers) they don't seem to be able to comprehend that all they will do is aggravate the problem & make it far worse - or, more likely, they simply don't care.

At least Labour are making the right noises here; Lis Kendall said

"Having a decent meal and contact with someone at least once a day is a lifeline for many elderly people.

"We must end this false divide between social care services and the NHS because both are essential to keeping elderly people well and living independently in their own homes."

which ties in with things said previously by Ed Miliband and Andy Burnham. Joined up thinking shouldn't be difficult, but the Tories haven't shown any signs of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30664937" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:05 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Haven't had much to do with food provision, but an old couple we used to visit every couple of weeks used Wiltshire Farm Foods and from what I could see it looked fairly appetizing, but was bloody expensive. They used to buy a meal for one and share it. Not good.
One of my clients is a lovely elderly gent who lost his wife last year. He was dwindling away at a rate of knots from grief and not looking after himself or cooking regular meals etc - so his daughters made sure he gets a delivery of the equivalent of Wiltshire Farm Foods meals organised via Ceredigion Council. It costs a fortune. I hope they are good because for what he pays for one meal - more than £4.50 if my memory serves me right - he could be buying the better ready meals from the supermarkets. They don't call every day ... it's a bulk delivery for the month - so he's expected to have a freezer that will fit them all in.

I like to keep in touch even when it's not the gardening season as he is quite delightful and Mr Riots and I think it's important for him to feel people care about his wellbeing. So I drove over in the Christmas interlude with a card and a pot of homemade jam. He wasn't there so I assumed he was at his daughter's and left the card and jam on his doorstep. We got an almost tearful phonecall from him when he returned because he was so touched to come back and find it there. I just hope it made him feel valued ... because he is.
Our old couple died within a couple of months of each other nearly three years ago. I really miss them. The wife had a rare sense of humour. I'd have been happy to have her as my second mum.
One year they were sorting out their Christmas menu with Wiltshire Foods and it came to something over £60. It was nothing exotic. I was shocked.
I used to take them a bit of homemade food and always included something for their dog. The wife died first, and when her husband died a couple of months later, we took over Muffin a cocker spaniel, who was fourteen years old and in a bit of a state. What family they had didn't want her or seem to know what to do with her, so we took her in. The last few years of their life they'd let her care go, we often offered to take her to be clipped and for a vets check up, because they weren't up to it, but he was so fiercely independent he wouldn't accept any help except for official carers to get his wife in and out of bed. I took Muffin to the vets but she was so far gone with her heart that she wouldn't have stood up to other treatment that was needed, so it was time to see her out. I seem to have done a lot of that in my life.

Jeez ohso, I read this after my last comment. My dad's bills were nowhere near that and he used to have a meal and a pudding each day. I used to make the odd home made meal to take with me when I visited him. In particular little steak and kidney puds as he really liked them. Plus tripe and onions 'cos he loved it. Not something I cooked for my lot and it's not easy to get tripe these days either. Worth it when I could find it for him though 'cos he'd be so chuffed.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:11 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Toby Perkins MP ‏@tobyperkinsmp 10m10 minutes ago
Following my visit to support @olivercoppard yesterday, this was my assessment on the @UKpollingreport S Hallam page. http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/ ... ent-138240" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Toby needed a good day. He'd been watching the old Channel 4 "100 Greatest Musicals" the night before and had expressed displeasure at Little Shop Of Horrors being at 21; I told him he probably wouldn't be too impressed at 13 then .... he wasn't!!

http://www.listal.com/list/100-greatest-musicals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:18 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Haven't had much to do with food provision, but an old couple we used to visit every couple of weeks used Wiltshire Farm Foods and from what I could see it looked fairly appetizing, but was bloody expensive. They used to buy a meal for one and share it. Not good.
No that isn't good. For the last year or two of his life, my dad used Wiltshire Farm Foods and actually, they were less expensive than my mum's Meals on Wheels. Different circumstances though - dad had nowhere near the same level of need as mum.
But I think you've both hit the nail on the head. As always with this Government it has ended up being an argument about cost, with no thought of the value of the service; as with all of these things (like, for example, the withdrawal of some funding for carers, and the impact of the bedroom tax on those same carers) they don't seem to be able to comprehend that all they will do is aggravate the problem & make it far worse - or, more likely, they simply don't care.

At least Labour are making the right noises here; Lis Kendall said

"Having a decent meal and contact with someone at least once a day is a lifeline for many elderly people.

"We must end this false divide between social care services and the NHS because both are essential to keeping elderly people well and living independently in their own homes."
which ties in with things said previously by Ed Miliband and Andy Burnham. Joined up thinking shouldn't be difficult, but the Tories haven't shown any signs of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30664937" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is one area where I agree with the Labour party [though as ever the devil is in the detail]. Thinking about it though, I'm coming to the conclusion that the provision of a hot meal could be an additional aspect of pension entitlements. How such a system would work needs thinking about but I'm damned sure that if carefully worked out, it would save money in the long run, plus more importantly, improve the quality of life for many people.

If Labour 'nick' my idea, I'll vote for it but I reserve the right to point out a Greenie came up with it first.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:27 pm

I happened to be a homehelp for some years,but it was some time ago.The arrangement in our area was that a selection of meals were available at a reduced rate.One of my tasks was prepare them.As all have said here it is not just the meals but served a crucial monitoring and literal social service.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:36 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: One of my clients is a lovely elderly gent who lost his wife last year. He was dwindling away at a rate of knots from grief and not looking after himself or cooking regular meals etc - so his daughters made sure he gets a delivery of the equivalent of Wiltshire Farm Foods meals organised via Ceredigion Council. It costs a fortune. I hope they are good because for what he pays for one meal - more than £4.50 if my memory serves me right - he could be buying the better ready meals from the supermarkets. They don't call every day ... it's a bulk delivery for the month - so he's expected to have a freezer that will fit them all in.

I like to keep in touch even when it's not the gardening season as he is quite delightful and Mr Riots and I think it's important for him to feel people care about his wellbeing. So I drove over in the Christmas interlude with a card and a pot of homemade jam. He wasn't there so I assumed he was at his daughter's and left the card and jam on his doorstep. We got an almost tearful phonecall from him when he returned because he was so touched to come back and find it there. I just hope it made him feel valued ... because he is.
Our old couple died within a couple of months of each other nearly three years ago. I really miss them. The wife had a rare sense of humour. I'd have been happy to have her as my second mum.
One year they were sorting out their Christmas menu with Wiltshire Foods and it came to something over £60. It was nothing exotic. I was shocked.
I used to take them a bit of homemade food and always included something for their dog. The wife died first, and when her husband died a couple of months later, we took over Muffin a cocker spaniel, who was fourteen years old and in a bit of a state. What family they had didn't want her or seem to know what to do with her, so we took her in. The last few years of their life they'd let her care go, we often offered to take her to be clipped and for a vets check up, because they weren't up to it, but he was so fiercely independent he wouldn't accept any help except for official carers to get his wife in and out of bed. I took Muffin to the vets but she was so far gone with her heart that she wouldn't have stood up to other treatment that was needed, so it was time to see her out. I seem to have done a lot of that in my life.

Jeez ohso, I read this after my last comment. My dad's bills were nowhere near that and he used to have a meal and a pudding each day. I used to make the odd home made meal to take with me when I visited him. In particular little steak and kidney puds as he really liked them. Plus tripe and onions 'cos he loved it. Not something I cooked for my lot and it's not easy to get tripe these days either. Worth it when I could find it for him though 'cos he'd be so chuffed.

It was the Christmas meal that was over £60 although I could have easily fed the two of them a good nourishing meal for the price of one from Wiltshire. It made me wonder how I'd ever manage the cost if I/we got to that point where I couldn't cook my own food.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:38 pm

I quite like Hunt- making the right noises again.

Only one thing bothers me there.

Under Labour, new schools would be built in areas of need with specific mandates to explore innovative educational approaches.

As Marklu commenting on the DT says, one big problem with Education policy has been politicians having their favoured type of school to sell above all others. It warps priorities.

And surely established schools would be better to try experimental stuff?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:42 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Tizme1 wrote: No that isn't good. For the last year or two of his life, my dad used Wiltshire Farm Foods and actually, they were less expensive than my mum's Meals on Wheels. Different circumstances though - dad had nowhere near the same level of need as mum.
But I think you've both hit the nail on the head. As always with this Government it has ended up being an argument about cost, with no thought of the value of the service; as with all of these things (like, for example, the withdrawal of some funding for carers, and the impact of the bedroom tax on those same carers) they don't seem to be able to comprehend that all they will do is aggravate the problem & make it far worse - or, more likely, they simply don't care.

At least Labour are making the right noises here; Lis Kendall said

"Having a decent meal and contact with someone at least once a day is a lifeline for many elderly people.

"We must end this false divide between social care services and the NHS because both are essential to keeping elderly people well and living independently in their own homes."
which ties in with things said previously by Ed Miliband and Andy Burnham. Joined up thinking shouldn't be difficult, but the Tories haven't shown any signs of it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30664937" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is one area where I agree with the Labour party [though as ever the devil is in the detail]. Thinking about it though, I'm coming to the conclusion that the provision of a hot meal could be an additional aspect of pension entitlements. How such a system would work needs thinking about but I'm damned sure that if carefully worked out, it would save money in the long run, plus more importantly, improve the quality of life for many people.

If Labour 'nick' my idea, I'll vote for it but I reserve the right to point out a Greenie came up with it first.

Once upon a time, a long time ago, when they used 'home helps', if that was what was needed, she would make sure there was food in the cupboard, and make a light snack and do the washing up...But that sort of help doesn't appear to be around any more?

I remember one lovely lady when I was in hospital. She'd had to have a 'home help' [before they started calling them carers] They came at six gave her a quick wash and put her to bed with a flask of tea, and that was it until around 8 the next morning. I thought it was appalling. That's no existence for the person on the receiving end.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:45 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
This is one area where I agree with the Labour party [though as ever the devil is in the detail]. Thinking about it though, I'm coming to the conclusion that the provision of a hot meal could be an additional aspect of pension entitlements. How such a system would work needs thinking about but I'm damned sure that if carefully worked out, it would save money in the long run, plus more importantly, improve the quality of life for many people.

If Labour 'nick' my idea, I'll vote for it but I reserve the right to point out a Greenie came up with it first.

You're very fair minded.

I think the stickler is money, with the number of pensioners there are, long term savings or not.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:48 pm

HindleA wrote:Apparently Casualty had a benefit sanction story .

Jesus, questions in the House!

How Cameron and all would have acted with Play For Today, god only knows.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:54 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
As Marklu commenting on the DT says, one big problem with Education policy has been politicians having their favoured type of school to sell above all others. It warps priorities.

And surely established schools would be better to try experimental stuff?

Policy Exchange are currently working on a publication about Free Schools to be published IIRC in March...just in time for the election.

It'd be nice if they were honest about exactly how 'innovative' these schools have been and how much could be done by any other school in an LA.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:57 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
HindleA wrote:Apparently Casualty had a benefit sanction story .
Jesus, questions in the House!

How Cameron and all would have acted with Play For Today, god only knows.

You can add Panorama, World in Action and Week in Week out to that list too.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 10:58 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
As Marklu commenting on the DT says, one big problem with Education policy has been politicians having their favoured type of school to sell above all others. It warps priorities.

And surely established schools would be better to try experimental stuff?
Policy Exchange are currently working on a publication about Free Schools to be published IIRC in March...just in time for the election.

It'd be nice if they were honest about exactly how 'innovative' these schools have been and how much could be done by any other school in an LA.

I suspect innovation is whatever they say it is. Like Tony Blair and Nick Clegg's definition of the centre ground.

If Labour look like winning, it'll be interesting if this rigorous work of scholarship is tailored to them.

Post by **adam** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:13 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
HindleA wrote:Apparently Casualty had a benefit sanction story .
Jesus, questions in the House!

How Cameron and all would have acted with Play For Today, god only knows.
You can add Panorama, World in Action and Week in Week out to that list too.

An episode of Casualty from 1992...

A farmer facing bankruptcy initiates a siege during which he shoots both his children, killing one and injuring the other, and injures himself. A cantankerous wheelchair-bound man cuts his hand and his wife ends up abandoning him at the hospital. A traffic warden has her earring ripped out on her first day; the driver later apologises but she decides to quit anyway. Sandra gets a written warning for her mistake and is unable to seek comfort from Julian because her husband is in town. Julian is angry when Simon spends money on refurbishing conference rooms despite a lack of beds in ITU.

The names of episodes only used to come up at the end - as the episode closed, with the farmer under guard, the 'wheelchair-bound man' stuck in the corridor and the porters busy carrying new plants into the conference rooms, the title came up - 'If It Isn't Hurting'. - quoting Major speaking as Chancellor a few years before. It was one of the very few times when I had to admit that the right could occasionally have a point about the BBC.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:18 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
HindleA wrote:Apparently Casualty had a benefit sanction story .
Jesus, questions in the House!

How Cameron and all would have acted with Play For Today, god only knows.
You can add Panorama, World in Action and Week in Week out to that list too.

World In Action on ITV and all.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:24 pm

Matthew Holehouse from the Telegraph and Faisal Islam seems to think that one of those airbrushed shiny-faced mydavidcameron.com posters is a Labour Party election poster.

Matthew Holehouse ‏@mattholehouse 52 mins52 minutes ago
NEW Labour election campaign poster warns Tories will cut spending to levels "when there was no NHS" ht @faisalislam pic.twitter.com/4RIt4gJ3iT

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 49 mins49 minutes ago
Levels? proportions surely? “@mattholehouse: Labour poster warns Tories will cut spending to levels "when no NHS" pic.twitter.com/uC5sjI0ihS”

Edit: Ok it looks like someone at Labour have just used mydavidcameron.com to produce a poster. Is Grant Shapps working for both sides or something?

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1070420 ... -five-more" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(bottom link for poster)

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:28 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
HindleA wrote:Reposting this from last night.
Annoyingly for me no commenting facility.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... -coalition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re."meals on wheels"
Hence the vast increase in telly adverts for all those companies who prepare and deliver ready meals on a subscription basis, eg., Wiltshire Farm Foods. My local council's 'Meals on Wheels' page simply suggests ways you might get help preparing meals or ordering ready meals then lists info and links to two charitable lunch clubs (one operating Saturday only, the other doing Friday and Saturday,) supermarket delivery services, local milk-plus delivery service, a range of commercial food services (including the example above,) and the local shop-mobility centre ~ to help you go shopping.

I don't know when they stopped the actual Meals on Wheels service but I think it was a few years ago ~ it being a 'flagship Tory Council' and all
Haven't had much to do with food provision, but an old couple we used to visit every couple of weeks used Wiltshire Farm Foods and from what I could see it looked fairly appetizing, but was bloody expensive. They used to buy a meal for one and share it. Not good.

I knew someone who swore by them and said the delivery guys were brilliant, putting everything away for them, explaining new items, up for a chat ~ said he always looked forward to seeing them. I looked at their offer myself but it was way too expensive, considerably more than I can afford so, sadly, what you say about the couple you know does not surprise me. It saddens me, though.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:29 pm

@The GrimSqueaker

MP's i've seen at Chesterfield Railway Station part two

I happened to pass Toby Perkins at said venue recently saying hello and nodding acknowledgement.Giant of a man,remember I am.only five foot nothing though.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:32 pm

Heck, that's good from Casualty. Even more hard hitting was G F Newman's The Nation's Health, on Channel 4.

I recall Grange Hill slagging off Ofsted a long time ago. Sheriff Mike wouldn't have liked that, let alone Gove.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:33 pm

My dad donated his Volvo estate to the Meals on Wheels service run by WRVS ,although I think they have changed their name in our area Derbyshire nice to think it will be of service.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:35 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I quite like Hunt- making the right noises again.

Only one thing bothers me there.

Under Labour, new schools would be built in areas of need with specific mandates to explore innovative educational approaches.
As Marklu commenting on the DT says, one big problem with Education policy has been politicians having their favoured type of school to sell above all others. It warps priorities.

And surely established schools would be better to try experimental stuff?

I too thought Hunt was talking a good deal of sense.

In particular, he seems to appreciate that all kids are different and that there are a myriad of different ways to be "successful" at school. Unlike Gove, who just wanted to inflict what he "enjoyed" on everyone else.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 03 Jan, 2015 11:44 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote: I too thought Hunt was talking a good deal of sense.

In particular, he seems to appreciate that all kids are different and that there are a myriad of different ways to be "successful" at school. Unlike Gove, who just wanted to inflict what he "enjoyed" on everyone else.

Be interesting to see how he follows that up. There are plans for a "technical bac", but it'll probably be seen as inferior. In Shoreditch, a lavishly funded specialist technical school has died on its arse. Probably that was to do with good schools locally and it recruiting at an awkward age (14, I think), but even so I was surprised. Parents seem to be want to their kids doing what the "mainstream" is doing, and I guess that'll have an academic bent.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Jan, 2015 12:01 am

IIRC, Adonis' business review, which looks to have some sensible stuff in it, has some preferred model of business-based privatized school. I don't want him near Education, and hope that goes nowhere. Maybe it's already out of favour, given the Shoreditch disaster.

But Hunt sounds like he's got more than those in mind for innovation.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Sun 04 Jan, 2015 12:02 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote: I too thought Hunt was talking a good deal of sense.

In particular, he seems to appreciate that all kids are different and that there are a myriad of different ways to be "successful" at school. Unlike Gove, who just wanted to inflict what he "enjoyed" on everyone else.
Be interesting to see how he follows that up. There are plans for a "technical bac", but it'll probably be seen as inferior. In Shoreditch, a lavishly funded specialist technical school has died on its arse. Probably that was to do with good schools locally and it recruiting at an awkward age (14, I think), but even so I was surprised. Parents seem to be want to their kids doing what the "mainstream" is doing, and I guess that'll have an academic bent.

Everybody recognises that kids come in lots of different shapes and sizes and with different abilities, and hence the push (when asked) for technical schools that don't do purely academic qualifications.

But. Ask the same parents which sort of schools their kids should be at and I'll guarantee you that nearly all say the academically inclined ones, rather than the technical ones.

It's the same thinking as per grammar schools. Many (though by no means all, or even a plurality of) parents say that state grammar schools were the best thing since sliced bread (despite documentary evidence to the contrary), and therefore they should be brought back (again, despite all the evidence available).

But you tell them that only one kid in ten went to a state grammar, and then ask them whether little Jocasta or Tarquin is bright enough to get in, and the reaction is generally most entertaining. The phrase cognitive dissonance was coined for such occasions.

The point is everyone thinks their little smashers are the Brian Cox's of tomorrow, but it's painfully clear that grammar school segregation does for a lot of kids, so they can't all go. So what then? Obvious answer: comprehensive education in good comps. Bit of a no brainer really, but to hear UKIP, the Tories and various tabloids, you'd think you'd strayed into an alternate universe.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 04 Jan, 2015 12:10 am

Well said.

I think vocational equivalents went much too far, and should have been sat on by Labour because they'd become an easy way of getting to the GCSEs threshold, but they did at least recognise that kids had different aptitudes. Tory MP Andrew Percy (an ex-teacher) had to gently tell Nick Gibb that you can't just stick the Eton curriculum in front of lots of kids because it'll mean nothing. As things stand, that seems to be what the government wants to happen. I would think a few teachers are less than enthusiastic about teaching kids who'll be telling them History (or whatever) is pointless. Not to mention copping the blame when said kids do poorly in exams.

I liked too that the equivalents were done within regular schools, and I imagine you could do them with some trad academic subjects. I don't like at all the idea that you take kids at 14, stick them on vocational stuff, with Maths and English only.