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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 6:08 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 7:53 am 
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Good piece by Andy Becket which will resonate here, I know, especially in 'the library' (or 'the other library')

Why Boris Johnson's Tories fell for a tiny sect of libertarian provocateurs
Quote:
So much seems unusual about this Conservative government: its constant disruptiveness; its preference for rhetoric over functional policies; its mixture of brazen U-turns and cult-like discipline; its flirtations with the far right alongside leftwing-sounding plans to “level up”; its deadly reluctance to curtail small freedoms in a pandemic. It’s common to attribute some or all of these tendencies to the idiosyncrasies of Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings, or the effects of Brexit, or the rise of rightwing populism. But there is a less noticed and more surprising factor at work, too. Today’s Tory government has adopted some of the style, rhetoric and preoccupations of a defunct radical sect, the Revolutionary Communist party (RCP).

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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 7:56 am 
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Claire Fox.


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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 9:17 am 
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Good morning.

Happy Yorkshire Day.


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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 9:29 am 
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Happy Yorkshire Day indeed :-)


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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 9:35 am 
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Quote:
Dan Davies
@dsquareddigest
A quick "ok where are you then?" To all of the assholes who dared to question the peerage of Shami Chakrabarti

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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 10:17 am 
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adam wrote:
Good piece by Andy Becket which will resonate here, I know, especially in 'the library' (or 'the other library')

Why Boris Johnson's Tories fell for a tiny sect of libertarian provocateurs
Quote:
So much seems unusual about this Conservative government: its constant disruptiveness; its preference for rhetoric over functional policies; its mixture of brazen U-turns and cult-like discipline; its flirtations with the far right alongside leftwing-sounding plans to “level up”; its deadly reluctance to curtail small freedoms in a pandemic. It’s common to attribute some or all of these tendencies to the idiosyncrasies of Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings, or the effects of Brexit, or the rise of rightwing populism. But there is a less noticed and more surprising factor at work, too. Today’s Tory government has adopted some of the style, rhetoric and preoccupations of a defunct radical sect, the Revolutionary Communist party (RCP).


There is, at last, a book being written about the "long march" of the RCP/Living Marxism/Spiked through our institutions. Long, long overdue.


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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 10:31 am 
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Brilliant thread.

https://twitter.com/ThatsNotVN/status/1 ... 4842480640

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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Anything happening?


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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 4:06 pm 
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I see Claire Fox has made a Yeah but No but defence of her peerage.

https://twitter.com/Fox_Claire/status/1 ... 4281852928

But she became a member of the Brexit Party nearly 3 years after we voted to leave - so what impact could she possibly have had?

None. None at all. Like the Widecombe horror it was just a "Look at me!!"

If BXP had had any principles they would have said "Nope. Not standing for the EP because we're leaving and there's nio point in us being there" but as they have none...

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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 6:21 pm 
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https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/07 ... -jumbo.jpg

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/31/worl ... ref=oembed


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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 6:24 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqCO9os ... e=emb_logo

"He's Got Bone Spurs" a Roy Zimmerman song parody


Last edited by frog222 on Sun 02 Aug, 2020 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 8:26 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syyJc7jPDM0&t=317s


#CNN #News
Report: Kushner's Covid-19 testing plan 'went poof into thin air'

Discontinued , perhaps when Covid "appeared" to be only hitting Blue (Dem) States , or Trump's denial of reality, it's crazy .

Quote:
On July 15, in a video call with journalists, Dr. Shah looked visibly frustrated. The next day, the Rockefeller Foundation would be releasing a follow-up report: It called on the federal government to commit $75 billion more to testing and contact tracing, work to break through the testing bottlenecks that had led to days-long delays in the delivery of test results, and vastly increase more rapid point-of-care tests.

Though speaking in a typically mild-mannered tone, Shah delivered a stark warning: “We fear the fall will be worse than the spring.” He added, putting it bluntly: “America is not near the top of countries who have handled COVID-19 effectively.”

Just three days later, news reports revealed that the Trump administration was trying to block any new funding for testing and contact tracing in the new coronavirus relief package being hammered out in Congress. As one member of the Rockefeller coalition said of the administration’s response, “We’re dealing with a schizophrenic organization. Who the hell knows what’s going on? It’s just insanity.”


https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07 ... o-thin-air


Last edited by frog222 on Sun 02 Aug, 2020 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 9:46 pm 
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Thanks for the links Frog


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PostPosted: Sat 01 Aug, 2020 9:47 pm 
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Off topic, I just told my son to check his food was “piping hot” like it says on the packet.

Piping?


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 8:39 am 
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They're really not having a good week...a former Minister according to the report I heard last night.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53625829

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 9:28 am 
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Regarding that report - as they used to say on Hill Street Blues "lets be careful out there".


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 9:58 am 
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Quote:
There are also reports that the Conservative Party's chief whip, Mark Spencer, had been aware of allegations - and previously spoke with the alleged victim.

According to sources, Mr Spencer had not known the "magnitude" of the allegations.

Rather like Natalie Elphicke.

None so blind as those who will not see.

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 10:01 am 
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Quote:
Alexander Clarkson
@APHClarkson
·
59m
Replying to
@APHClarkson
Assuming Tories have a lasting grip on a voter coalition that involves multiple social groups and distinct regions in England seems to assume English society will remain static in the same way that early 00s claims of lasting Labour hegemony assumed UK society would remain static

https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/ ... 6104181762


and

Quote:
Alexander Clarkson
@APHClarkson
The most annoying thing about this genre of London-based journo safari tours of regions North of Watford is the way they drift into the same reptitive talking points that drift past a much more socially complex and intellectually interesting social environment

Yes.

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 10:16 am 
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gilsey wrote:
Quote:
There are also reports that the Conservative Party's chief whip, Mark Spencer, had been aware of allegations - and previously spoke with the alleged victim.

According to sources, Mr Spencer had not known the "magnitude" of the allegations.

Rather like Natalie Elphicke.

None so blind as those who will not see.


I have a bit more sympathy in that case tbh. She clearly believed her husband's denials, as many in that situation do.


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 12:41 pm 
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I used to enjoy discussing politics because governments used to make political arguments to support policy decisions and there was always scope for wide ranging discussion of the rights and wrongs of the political choices taken.

Which I found interesting.

Now, though, there is little to discuss. Why does the government take the decisions it takes? It's a short discussion that always ends in the same place - because they're a bunch of corrupt crooks, bought and paid for by dirty money.

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 1:52 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... en-schools
Quote:
Teachers and scientists sound alarm over plans to reopen schools in England


Schools could have spent the last few months fine-tuning plans for "blended learning" combining part-time face to face teaching in schools, with full social distancing, with quality online home learning. This could have provided a longer-term, covid-safe strategy that provides consistent education, some important face to face and social interaction with minimum disruption.

Instead schools are due to fully re-open with no preventative measures at all - no social distancing, no face masks and only theoretical hygiene in the absence of budgets for more soap and sinks. All we have are "bubbles" of 100+ pupils which will be sent home once coronavirus has already spread and infected many in said bubble.

This despite the government surely being aware of all the points in this article, including the following:

Quote:
Meanwhile, Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia, said it had become clear that there is a link between closing schools and controlling the spread of the virus. “The evidence is clear that schools are important in the spread of Covid-19,” he said. “Our studies show that, across Europe, closing schools was the single factor most strongly associated with drops in infection rates.”

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 2:37 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Yep.


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 2:37 pm 
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Good afternoon, everyone.


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 2:44 pm 
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Quote:
Why, I wonder, looking back, was he so stubbornly determined to come here and not elsewhere in Europe? He smiles. “I had studied English literature and I thought of London as the centre of democracy and human rights,” he says. “Having lived in a totalitarian country for two decades of my life, I wanted to live somewhere that I could be free.” He watched the film Braveheart 10 times back in Syria; that William Wallace cry of “Freedom!” stayed with him.

This is a delusional democracy, where people are lied to, and vote for the liars

He might, he admits now, have been careful what he wished for – to the extent that he is no longer certain he even wants to stay here beyond next year. “For someone from Syria, the creeping authoritarianism is quite vivid here now,” he suggests. “Contracts going to government cronies; politicians breaking the rules and not facing consequences; this delusional democracy where people are lied to, and vote for the liars.”


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... in-britain

Kafka's England ?


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 2:47 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syyJc7jPDM0&t=317s
#CNN #News
Report: Kushner's Covid-19 testing plan 'went poof into thin air'
Discontinued , perhaps when Covid "appeared" to be only hitting Blue (Dem) States , or Trump's denial of reality, it's crazy .
Quote:
On July 15, in a video call with journalists, Dr. Shah looked visibly frustrated. The next day, the Rockefeller Foundation would be releasing a follow-up report: It called on the federal government to commit $75 billion more to testing and contact tracing, work to break through the testing bottlenecks that had led to days-long delays in the delivery of test results, and vastly increase more rapid point-of-care tests.

Though speaking in a typically mild-mannered tone, Shah delivered a stark warning: “We fear the fall will be worse than the spring.” He added, putting it bluntly: “America is not near the top of countries who have handled COVID-19 effectively.”

Just three days later, news reports revealed that the Trump administration was trying to block any new funding for testing and contact tracing in the new coronavirus relief package being hammered out in Congress. As one member of the Rockefeller coalition said of the administration’s response, “We’re dealing with a schizophrenic organization. Who the hell knows what’s going on? It’s just insanity.”


https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07 ... o-thin-air


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 3:14 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
Quote:
Why, I wonder, looking back, was he so stubbornly determined to come here and not elsewhere in Europe? He smiles. “I had studied English literature and I thought of London as the centre of democracy and human rights,” he says. “Having lived in a totalitarian country for two decades of my life, I wanted to live somewhere that I could be free.” He watched the film Braveheart 10 times back in Syria; that William Wallace cry of “Freedom!” stayed with him.

This is a delusional democracy, where people are lied to, and vote for the liars

He might, he admits now, have been careful what he wished for – to the extent that he is no longer certain he even wants to stay here beyond next year. “For someone from Syria, the creeping authoritarianism is quite vivid here now,” he suggests. “Contracts going to government cronies; politicians breaking the rules and not facing consequences; this delusional democracy where people are lied to, and vote for the liars.”


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... in-britain

Kafka's England ?


The thing about Syria, Russia and all the other pseudo/non democracies is that most people actually realise they are being lied to (even if some, for a variety of reasons, choose to believe the lies) Unfortunately, one aspect of British exceptionalism is that too many imagine "it could never happen to us".


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 4:12 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
---
The thing about Syria, Russia and all the other pseudo/non democracies is that most people actually realise they are being lied to (even if some, for a variety of reasons, choose to believe the lies) Unfortunately, one aspect of British exceptionalism is that too many imagine "it could never happen to us".
(cJA edit)

I've often thought the same.


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 5:20 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
I used to enjoy discussing politics because governments used to make political arguments to support policy decisions and there was always scope for wide ranging discussion of the rights and wrongs of the political choices taken.

Which I found interesting.

Now, though, there is little to discuss. Why does the government take the decisions it takes? It's a short discussion that always ends in the same place - because they're a bunch of corrupt crooks, bought and paid for by dirty money.

Apart from the fact I’m monstrously busy with work, this is the main reason I don’t post much any more. What is there to say?


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 6:43 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
I used to enjoy discussing politics because governments used to make political arguments to support policy decisions and there was always scope for wide ranging discussion of the rights and wrongs of the political choices taken.
Which I found interesting.
Now, though, there is little to discuss. Why does the government take the decisions it takes? It's a short discussion that always ends in the same place - because they're a bunch of corrupt crooks, bought and paid for by dirty money.

Apart from the fact I’m monstrously busy with work, this is the main reason I don’t post much any more. What is there to say?
Paul I posted the Vanity Fair link on Kushner's NON-Covidtesting back a little . You are very lucky to be busy! Son in law gave me a demo of teaching English pronunciation to a half-class of 15yo's, through a mask , Aaaagh ! Good comments from uni teachers in this one yesterday https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... pert-warns (( FUBAR ))
I found this in a 1970 re-edit (orig1935!) in a sale near the Paris Opéra 30 odd years ago , and it has made increasingly chilling reading since -- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cant-Happen-Pe ... 0241310660
Quote:
A vain, outlandish, anti-immigrant, fearmongering demagogue runs for President of the United States - and wins. Sinclair Lewis's chilling 1935 bestseller is the story of Buzz Windrip, 'Professional Common Man', who promises poor, angry voters that he will make America proud and prosperous once more, but takes the country down a far darker path. As the new regime slides into authoritarianism, newspaper editor Doremus Jessup can't believe it will last - but is he right? This cautionary tale of liberal complacency in the face of populist tyranny shows it really can happen here.
I sent the hassan-akkad article to my half-sister in Puerto Rico … immediate reaction —
" Terrible. So similar to PR "
Sympathies from a poor Latina and a Syrian refugee for the plight of the Unwitting English ... quite something ?


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 8:09 pm 
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Thanks Frog


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 8:40 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 8:45 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 9:06 pm 
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I wouldn't exactly call this 'mask rage' but in Tesco earlier a youngish Asian bloke stood right next to me, without a mask, while blathering on his phone. I couldn't see any exemption lanyard or anything so I asked him if he knew he should be wearing a mask.

"Who are you? The police?"

"No just a concerned citizen offering some friendly advice."

"Fuck off, I'm on the phone."

"Have you got a mask or not? You can get them in the aisle over there."

"Do you want a slap? I told you to fuck off..."

At this point he got into what sounded like a heated conversation in what I'm guessing was Bengali (we have a large Bangladeshi community here) over the phone, before looking a bit sheepish, taking a mask out of his pocket and putting it on. So I thanked him and went on my way.

I like to imagine he was on the phone to his mum and she told him off.

There were another couple of blokes sans masks but by that point I just wanted to get my shopping and leave, I can't for the life of me see why these huge supermarket chains can't hire a couple of security staff to stand at the entrance and refuse entry to those not wearing a mask without an exemption, it shouldn't be up to ordinary members of the public to have to police what is now the law. They're certainly not as forgiving with shoplifters.


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 9:15 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=211&v=ojYiimi43vM&feature=emb_logo


what is the point of having two people who just agree with one another and make statements without recourse to any data but express opinions?

The CEBM are looking at the data - look at the case numbers and compare with March/April when we were handling testing and tell me that there is evidence in the data of the type of resurgence being spoken about. That is not to say we shouldn't be wary and not take any measures but the threat of lockdowns being demanded continually seems to be based on very little

https://www.cebm.net/oxford-covid-19-evidence-service/

This is not like climate change where we have scientific consensus on the mechanisms behind the models, this is a live debate about what is happening and what the variables are actually telling us

The same people were telling us Sweden was going to have 96000 deaths and collapse of health system if they didn't lockdown hard.....


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 9:34 pm 
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Well this makes my Tesco 'mask rage' encounter look positively genteel.

https://crooksandliars.com/2020/08/white-supremacist-trump-supporter-gets

(Warning the video includes footage of a woman being physically assaulted but according to her husband she's fine or I wouldn't have posted it, if anyone objects I'll happily remove it).


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 9:53 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
snip
Instead schools are due to fully re-open with no preventative measures at all - no social distancing, no face masks and only theoretical hygiene in the absence of budgets for more soap and sinks. All we have are "bubbles" of 100+ pupils which will be sent home once coronavirus has already spread and infected many in said bubble.


I looked at our risk assessment and sat down and did pages of sums - how many kids have we got, how many in each year group, how many sinks have we got that they can use, how long will it take to get them to the sinks / for them to use them properly / for the changeover to the next person. It's really really easy to say 'everyone wash their haands' but it takes a surprisingly long time for everyone in school to do it. Any risk assessment that relies on it should be pulled apart and 'thought experiment' tested with the actual numbers involved. I reckon that even if we staggered year group changover times it would take each year group about 20 minutes. Presumably for each year group at each changeover. Which means it wouldn't happen - people wouldn't queue up, wouldn't wash properly.

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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 10:13 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
The CEBM are looking at the data


Ah yes, that would be Carl Heneghan, the genius who thinks the lockdown was a waste of time and people washing their hands was the single most important factor in reducing the instances of an airborne disease. Ch4 and Newsnight have him on all the time to provide an alternative view so it's not like the CEBM are being ignored, it's more the fact barely anyone else agrees with him.

This of course doesn't make him wrong, but if the United States is anything to go by following his advice would be catastrophic and Sweden has a death rate per million 12 times higher than Norway so they're hardly a beacon of good practice.

Coronavirus has not gone anywhere, it's still here and just as infectious, and for the first time in a long time we had some honesty from a government advisor on Friday when he admitted we're at the ragged edge when it comes to lifting restrictions and any further opening up of society could land us in a world of pain.

The IMHE predicted around 60,000 deaths in the UK by August and were lambasted by the right wing press in this country as scaremongers and scoffed at by Carl Heneghan of the CEBM on national television.

Guess who turned out to be right?

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 10:35 pm 
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adam wrote:
I looked at our risk assessment and sat down and did pages of sums - how many kids have we got, how many in each year group, how many sinks have we got that they can use, how long will it take to get them to the sinks / for them to use them properly / for the changeover to the next person. It's really really easy to say 'everyone wash their haands' but it takes a surprisingly long time for everyone in school to do it. Any risk assessment that relies on it should be pulled apart and 'thought experiment' tested with the actual numbers involved. I reckon that even if we staggered year group changover times it would take each year group about 20 minutes. Presumably for each year group at each changeover. Which means it wouldn't happen - people wouldn't queue up, wouldn't wash properly.


Yeah talking to my brother he said exactly the same, it's completely impossible for his school to have all the pupils back and maintain any semblance of a 'Covid secure' enviroment. But apparently a fireplace salesman is eminently qualified to say otherwise.


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 11:06 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 11:12 pm 
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If anyone hasn't read Stewart Lee's bordering on the edge of insane/genius piece today I can't recommend it highly enough.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/aug/02/the-brexit-government-is-lost-in-a-fog-of-lies

Quote:
Michael Gove is standing in a public waste disposal site in west London, objective reality dissolving around him, surrounded by a semicircle of imaginary attendants he has made himself from discarded rubbish; mop-handle spines, coathanger arms, sofa cushion bodies, and rotting rubber football heads. “These are my attendants, Leapy Lee,” he cried up at me, his eyes Bolivian bright, “they are immensely dignified and they are real.” But there were scarcely 10 false attendants, and they had taken Gove a week to make. I could have made that many in a day. I suddenly had my first inkling of the gulf between reality and the Brexit government’s acceptance of it. Why was I here?


I'm getting the 'War of the worlds' and cocaine use references but I feel I'm missing something.


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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 11:49 pm 
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These magnificent bastards have just appeared, I really wish this disease would sod off so we can go and see bands again. I'd pay to see that outfit alone.



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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2020 11:56 pm 
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Can't remember if I posted this one the other night.



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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2020 12:01 am 
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No, you didn't.


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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2020 12:46 am 
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2020 12:57 am 
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This song amuses me.



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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2020 1:12 am 
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2020 2:36 am 
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Night night.


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