Wednesday 6th July 2022

Post by **refitman** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 6:38 am

Morning all.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:21 am

Morning.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:23 am

I think the only reason to vote for anyone is to get (almost) anyone but the Tories in power.
And then the main task for them would be to put PR in place.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:23 am

(cf:Sky's post from last night)

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 8:32 am

Ain't had a vote in thirty years ! ( 'away' 46 )

One thing that came out of the millions of lines of messages analysed by the Jan6th team is that QAnon phrases and apparently beliefs were amazingly prevalent up to high levels in the GOP, for example some of Ginni Thomas's are batshit crazy !

The mixed-messaging coming from the NHS&Politicians is almost of the same order of 'crazy' --

Around a month ago the accepted wisdom was that we were headed for a lull before a rise in the autumn/winter, so everyone could relax and enjoy the summer holidays, and tills would ring .
Three weeks ago on Monday my doc was still masked but the chemist had at last relaxed and taken off his mask. I kept mine, and wondered when he would backtrack ! Compulsory again for him for a week at least now

Link and nice coloured graphic yesterday -- BA5 is as infectious as measles .

And nobody can predict what future variants will do .

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 8:37 am

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 10:00 am

frog222 wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 8:32 am Around a month ago the accepted wisdom was that we were headed for a lull before a rise in the autumn/winter, so everyone could relax and enjoy the summer holidays, and tills would ring .
Three weeks ago on Monday my doc was still masked but the chemist had at last relaxed and taken off his mask. I kept mine, and wondered when he would backtrack ! Compulsory again for him for a week at least now

Link and nice coloured graphic yesterday -- BA5 is as infectious as measles .

And nobody can predict what future variants will do .

Some hospitals here had removed the mask mandate a few weeks ago just in time to have to reinstate it.

I saw an interesting graph the other day showing each wave shorter than the last, and with less of a gap in between.

As a species, we deserve all that's coming to us really.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 10:03 am

tinyclanger2 wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:23 am I think the only reason to vote for anyone is to get (almost) anyone but the Tories in power.
And then the main task for them would be to put PR in place.

I'd forgive Starmer the rest if we got PR, think it's v unlikely though.
Only way to stop the tories coming back for another try at dictatorship, imo.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 10:17 am

Sunak's resigned over policy differences rather than Johnson's character, it appears.

In preparation for our proposed joint speech on the economy next week, it has become clear to me that our approaches are fundamentally too different.

Ironic that if we assume that Johnson wants to loosen the purse strings and Sunak wants to maintain 'fiscal responsibility', in the current economic scenario Johnson is right.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 12:03 pm

gilsey wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 10:03 am
tinyclanger2 wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:23 am I think the only reason to vote for anyone is to get (almost) anyone but the Tories in power.
And then the main task for them would be to put PR in place.
I'd forgive Starmer the rest if we got PR, think it's v unlikely though.
Only way to stop the tories coming back for another try at dictatorship, imo.

Starmer has stated in the past that he supports it.

(cue the inevitable cynical responses, but that may still be worth noting)

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 1:22 pm

Starmer has stated in the past that he supports it.

(cue the inevitable cynical responses, but that may still be worth noting)

AK -- hardly 'cynical' that SKS has form for breaking very highly publicised solemn pledges ?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 1:58 pm

The Labour party seems less negative on PR than it used to be, but it's a long way from there to sticking it in the manifesto. A referendum would get derailed like the last one did, yes I know AV isn't PR but it would have been a start. Instead it got voted down because Clegg deserved a kicking, the merits of the case having been completely lost.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 2:02 pm

Yes the referendum is a tricky one.

Best bet would be to hold it ASAP after a non-Tory government comes to power (as with the 1997 devolution referenda)

A wave of continued anti-Tory feeling might carry it then.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 2:21 pm

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 2:23 pm

Probably doesn't include Jenrick.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 2:24 pm

This lady's busy today.

notnowsonny · Post by **notnowsonny** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 2:35 pm

Found this btl on the Guardian. Long but, in my view, interesting.

sh1331
6 hours ago
950

In the light of his promotion, there are once again lots of profiles of Steve Barclay all over the media.

And once again, lots of these profiles describe him as "coming from a working class Northern background in Lancashire".

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I was in Steve's year at school. We were in the same class for several subjects. I have spoken elsewhere about his character. But I want to talk about the "working class Northern background".

We went to an independent school. It was mostly funded by parents' fees, but it was also partly funded by the fact that the trust that owned our school and the girls' school next door owned the Golden Mile in Blackpool - the area of burger shops and rock shops and arcades - so everyone who went on holiday to Blackpool effectively subsidised our school. Still, our parents did have to pay a fair bit to send us there.

It was a great school. It had small class sizes, lovely buildings, and great facilities. Most of the teachers were brilliant. We played rugby and hockey: apparently football was too common for us. In the large and lovely assembly hall, there was a lengthy honour roll of the kids who'd got into Oxbridge - usually around 5% of each year.

The school was right by the beach. On a nice day, from the Chemistry and Physics labs, you could look across the sea all the way to Snowdownia. As you drove up the main drive, with playing fields either side, the school looked like a palace. It and its sister school were the poshest schools in Lytham St Annes. And Lytham St Annes is one of the poshest towns in the North, in a very wealthy, overwhelmingly Tory constituency.

Like almost all of my classmates, I grew up well-off and middle-class, in a nice house. My parents had good jobs. Steve lived in a nicer house than me.

The Tory leadership bangs on about how he's "working class". No he is not. He is Northern. Being Northern does not make one working class.

But this is why they are f---ing the country. They think Steve, who lived in a nice house in a lovely town and went to a good private school, is working class. So when they talk about the challenges the working class faces, that's what they're thinking of - people like Steve, or like me. People who are, frankly, upper middle. Is it any wonder that "Levelling Up" is such a f---ing joke when these people have absolutely no clue what a working class person is?

Let's remember that Jacob Rees-Mogg once joked about Rishi Sunak having gone to Winchester. That's why these d---heads think that Steve represents the working class.

Even before you start looking at the current shower's immorality, incompetence and stupidity, this is what's wrong with the Tory Party. They do not have a clue about the people who live in their country. Even if you take Boris and all his awfulness out of the equation, you're still left with people who are catastrophically out of touch and who can't even bring themselves to find out who the working class they're supposed to be helping actually are. Britain is forever doomed to fail while these people are in charge.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 2:40 pm

Very good, thanks.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 3:45 pm

As far as Barclay is concerned, its the London media's conceit again that having even a vaguely regional accent makes you "working class".

(see also - the almost classically middle class Jess Phillips)

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 5:08 pm

Liveblog very busy

15.57 " One former minister who has stayed loyal to Johnson told their whip that there were absolutely no terms they were prepared to accept and said the whip had agreed with them.
Another MP said they believed that message had been conveyed in “brusque tones” to Downing Street. "

Two words in fact, the second being 'off' ?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 5:08 pm

My sister once asked her MIL what class they saw themselves in and had to restrain a snort when she said lower-middle class. Her FIL did the same job as our Dad as it happened, but I don't know how far back his middle-class-ness went, Dad's parents and relatives all worked in t'mill, he was the first to get a scholarship to the Grammar School.
OTOH, MIL was a Doctor and her family was pretty well off by our standards with property in Newcastle, my niece and nephew will be quite well off too if their Dad doesn't live forever. He's tight with it so they don't see any benefit now.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 5:29 pm

Interesting news from over the channel

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 5:53 pm

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:03 pm

I hope everyone's deriving as much pleasure as possible from this uproarious spectacle.

Ken Clarke seems to be enjoying himself.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:10 pm

@ Sky very much, w some very cheap sparkling Saumur and some steak

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:19 pm

He won't resign no matter how many of his underlings quit, will he?

Some of his remaining supporters (there are still at least a few) are even citing the Corbyn "precedent".

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:59 pm

Someone from the Institute for Government was on CH4 news saying it would be nigh on impossible for Johnson to call a snap election...which is a bit of a shame.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 9:11 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 7:19 pm He won't resign no matter how many of his underlings quit, will he?

Nope, it would appear he's intent on hanging on like some monstrous, bloated leech and if reports are to be believed he's so utterly delusional that he thinks he'd win another no confidence vote. I'd rather he stayed but as that's no longer an option I applaud him in his deranged efforts to dig in and do as much damage to the tories as is humanly possible. Apparently Braverman is recommending that all tory MPs who've been disloyal to him should lose the party whip in a mass purge, which would be absolutely delightful. I'm enjoying the downfall of Johnson's preposterous acolytes almost as much as his own humiliation.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 9:22 pm

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 9:27 pm

He still thinks it's a game.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 9:30 pm

Interesting how the PR issue is one of his arguments for staying. ie: he's made it abundantly clear that ensuring the population is never properly representated by its government is a fundamental Tory goal.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 9:51 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 9:30 pm Interesting how the PR issue is one of his arguments for staying. ie: he's made it abundantly clear that ensuring the population is never properly representated by its government is a fundamental Tory goal.

Let's not forget the Labour Party, as of now, don't support bringing in PR either. Though it does look like they'll soon have it forced upon them by their members and the unions.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 10:32 pm

I must admit, while I've always thought Johnson was missing a few marbles I didn't foresee him carrying on like this. He's completely lost touch with reality and this would be dangerous if he still had the kind of public support he evidently still thinks he has.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 10:36 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 9:51 pm
tinyclanger2 wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 9:30 pm Interesting how the PR issue is one of his arguments for staying. ie: he's made it abundantly clear that ensuring the population is never properly representated by its government is a fundamental Tory goal.
Let's not forget the Labour Party, as of now, don't support bringing in PR either. Though it does look like they'll soon have it forced upon them by their members and the unions.

Let's hope so. PR seems more or less essential to pursue anything approaching democracy.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:24 pm

Ha ha, even Suella Braverman is saying he has to go, and she's going to run for the leadership.

Lot's of crap from Kirsty Wark on Newsnight blaming Labour for this chaos because they won't call for a vote of no confidence themselves, which is obviously ludicrous, it would be the thing most likely to keep Johnson in power.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:33 pm

Sky'sGoneOut wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:24 pm Ha ha, even Suella Braverman is saying he has to go, and she's going to run for the leadership.

Lot's of crap from Kirsty Wark on Newsnight blaming Labour for this chaos because they won't call for a vote of no confidence themselves, which is obviously ludicrous, it would be the thing most likely to keep Johnson in power.

What is even more worrying is that Peston said that "A number of your colleagues have wondered if you have thought about standing?"

Really? Who are these people?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:35 pm

Good evening BTW.

I finally have my PC sorted and I'm relatively back to normal.

Does everyone have bags full of miscellaneous tech stuff that they feel they ought to keep just in case? That stuff that never actually gets used again?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:42 pm

well i certainly do.
Eventually Major Clanger might build a rocket from it.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:42 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:33 pm What is even more worrying is that Peston said that "A number of your colleagues have wondered if you have thought about standing?"

Really? Who are these people?

She was one of the hilariously misnomered 'Spartans', so presumably her deluded handful of supporters come from that rabble of morons.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:48 pm

It's going to be Jeremy Hunt isn't it?

And then everyone will breathe a sign of relief because it could have been far, far worse...

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:48 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul, 2022 11:35 pm Does everyone have bags full of miscellaneous tech stuff that they feel they ought to keep just in case? That stuff that never actually gets used again?

An entire cupboard full. Though it's quite a small cupboard. There's stuff in there that would probably kill me if I ever tried plugging it in.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Thu 07 Jul, 2022 12:06 am

My money's on Penny Mordaunt. A brexiter who's kept herself at arms length from Johnson and been prepared to criticise him.

Of all those vying for the position I think she's the one Labour has most to fear from.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Thu 07 Jul, 2022 12:19 am

There was an interesting snippet of information from Sonia Purnell, Johnson's biographer, on Newsnight.

When asked about his current craziness she said she wasn't surprised and that members of his family had told her he wouldn't be able to handle the pressures of being Prime Minister because basically he was a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

Maybe the tories should have based their rules around Star Trek so their version of Doctor McCoy could relieve Johnson of his post due to him being bonkers.