Saturday 7th and Sunday 8th February 2015

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 8:46 pm

Rednorth wrote:Ed should really go hard on the tax haven stuff. People aren't impressed by billionaire tax dodgers who don't even live here telling us how to vote.

I sometimes don't understand the left; whereas the right finds a populist issue like immigration and exploits it to the full, where Labour's views coincide with popular views....like tax havens, railways etc, they seem reluctant to exploit it.

What people think they know about railways is basically wrong, and people like Caroline Lucas can't be bothered to find out and tell them. The problem is that taxpayers have never wanted to subsidize fares like they have in other countries. So the Treasury looks to maximise revenue from train operators, which doesn't encourage low fares. This is where the reluctance to renationalize comes from- because finance ministers don't fancy raising the sort of tax for fare subsidies, not because they're all neo-liberal thickos. East Coast clearly did very well, but in terms of getting money back to the Treasury, the private bid will almost certainly be better at that.

There are obvious criticisms of the fragmented privatized railway though- duplication, shareholder profits. But it basically works in terms of the sort of public money available.

Rednorth · Post by **Rednorth** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 8:46 pm

Will disability-hate crime cover anonymous malicious calls to the DWP benefit fraud hotline about disabled people?

It could be argued they are not only facilitating crime but actively indulging in it.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 8:57 pm

Re the Green party discussion above - they have the capacity to hurt Labour in Tory marginals, but in Lab/Lib fights like Redcar they might take as many formerly yellow as red votes.

Despite this and the local shenanigans, it remains an overwhelmingly likely Labour gain.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:07 pm

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... ut-8596605

A university academic has come out in support of the Durham Free School. Of course, it's entirely academic, no vested interests etc.

he was founding president of the Education Fund, Orient Global, living for two years in Hyderabad, India (on unpaid leave from the University), where he helped create a chain of low cost private schools and associated educational infrastructure.

He is co-founder and chairman of Omega Schools Franchise Ltd, a chain of low-cost private schools in Ghana. Its first two schools opened in 2009, and it has grown to 40 schools with 20,000 students, with significant investment from Pearson's Affordable Learning Fund.

Tooley has also created embryonic chains of low-cost private schools in Sierra Leone and India. He is the patron of AFED - the Association of Formidable Educational Development - in Nigeria, an association of 3,000 low-cost private schools.

From Oxford he moved to the University of Manchesterin 1995; at the same time he also created the Education and Training Unit at the Institute of Economic Affairs in London. He took up his current chair at Newcastle University in July 1998. He is a member of the academic advisory councils for several think-tanks, including Reform, Civitas, Institute of Economic Affairs, Taxpayers' Alliance and Globalisation Institute. He is an Adjunct Scholar at the Cato Institute, a member of the Mont Pelerin Society,[11] and a thought-leader for Schoolventures.

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:09 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Rednorth wrote:Ed should really go hard on the tax haven stuff. People aren't impressed by billionaire tax dodgers who don't even live here telling us how to vote.

I sometimes don't understand the left; whereas the right finds a populist issue like immigration and exploits it to the full, where Labour's views coincide with popular views....like tax havens, railways etc, they seem reluctant to exploit it.
What people think they know about railways is basically wrong, and people like Caroline Lucas can't be bothered to find out and tell them. The problem is that taxpayers have never wanted to subsidize fares like they have in other countries. So the Treasury looks to maximise revenue from train operators, which doesn't encourage low fares. This is where the reluctance to renationalize comes from- because finance ministers don't fancy raising the sort of tax for fare subsidies, not because they're all neo-liberal thickos. East Coast clearly did very well, but in terms of getting money back to the Treasury, the private bid will almost certainly be better at that.

There are obvious criticisms of the fragmented privatized railway though- duplication, shareholder profits. But it basically works in terms of the sort of public money available.

Hi Tubby
Haven't felt the need to comment on the board for some time but feel I can't agree with your comment.
The Privatised railway, as I have indicated in a previous post some time ago, is inefficient, certainly not cost effective, has poor levels of both customer satisfaction and , just as important, poor levels of staff satisfaction. The East Coast franchise will only be better in terms of money back to the treasury if they increase non regulated fares and reduce staff satisfaction by imposing poorer working conditions.
What do I know about the railway. I worked for 27 years starting as a booking clerk at Manchester Victoria and finishing as senior executive in the privatised railway a in London. I know what worked and what didn't. The nationalised railway was king compared to the ill conceived, unpopular private railway that followed it. Something,by the way, I will never forgive John Major for. It wasn't broke, it needed investment but it was innovative and represented good value for money.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:14 pm

Oh Tony ! Please! Just shut the f up!!! We neither want or need you.

Tony Blair: I will do what it takes to help Ed Miliband win general election
Former Labour prime minister seeks to end talk of rift as officials hold talks over campaign role
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... l-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:19 pm

Who's that gut lord marching ? You should cut down on your porklife mate ... get some exercise

: article-1283006-09D46D41000005DC-430_306x423.jpg (73.4 KiB) Viewed 7921 times

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:20 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Rednorth wrote:Ed should really go hard on the tax haven stuff. People aren't impressed by billionaire tax dodgers who don't even live here telling us how to vote.

I sometimes don't understand the left; whereas the right finds a populist issue like immigration and exploits it to the full, where Labour's views coincide with popular views....like tax havens, railways etc, they seem reluctant to exploit it.
What people think they know about railways is basically wrong, and people like Caroline Lucas can't be bothered to find out and tell them. The problem is that taxpayers have never wanted to subsidize fares like they have in other countries. So the Treasury looks to maximise revenue from train operators, which doesn't encourage low fares. This is where the reluctance to renationalize comes from- because finance ministers don't fancy raising the sort of tax for fare subsidies, not because they're all neo-liberal thickos. East Coast clearly did very well, but in terms of getting money back to the Treasury, the private bid will almost certainly be better at that.

There are obvious criticisms of the fragmented privatized railway though- duplication, shareholder profits. But it basically works in terms of the sort of public money available.
I remember hearing, back in the 90s about the time the system was being privatised, that the proportion of freight carried on British railways was much lower than in mainland Europe. I don't know why this was, although the vast number of private road hauliers might have had something to do with it, but surely the more freight carried, especially on a state-owned railway, the more passenger fares can be kept low without the taxpayer having to foot the bill. I get the impression, although no doubt you know more about it than I do, that a lot of what European taxpayers subsidise is top class infrastructure and rolling stock.

The reason Britain carries less freight by rail is because of competitively short distances for trunk haul. Many European railways also have a wagon load service which is not profitable and when reintroduced by the privateers (the American owners of the privatised Railfreight companies) in 1998 was very swiftly dropped when, as we advised them. lost millions of pounds from day one.
The biggest freight profit maker was merry-go-round coal and steel both of which have dramatically declined. Our infrastucture is not bad, our rolling stock in the main is good but just like the big three railways in Western Europe is poor on secondary routes. Freight, unlike passenger, is completely private so no cross subsidisation is really possible.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:29 pm

Hard to see what that "role" could be, though - maybe drumming up support for Labour amongst business, possibly? As long as he's fairly low key about it......

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:34 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... ut-8596605

A university academic has come out in support of the Durham Free School. Of course, it's entirely academic, no vested interests etc.

he was founding president of the Education Fund, Orient Global, living for two years in Hyderabad, India (on unpaid leave from the University), where he helped create a chain of low cost private schools and associated educational infrastructure.

He is co-founder and chairman of Omega Schools Franchise Ltd, a chain of low-cost private schools in Ghana. Its first two schools opened in 2009, and it has grown to 40 schools with 20,000 students, with significant investment from Pearson's Affordable Learning Fund.

Tooley has also created embryonic chains of low-cost private schools in Sierra Leone and India. He is the patron of AFED - the Association of Formidable Educational Development - in Nigeria, an association of 3,000 low-cost private schools.

From Oxford he moved to the University of Manchesterin 1995; at the same time he also created the Education and Training Unit at the Institute of Economic Affairs in London. He took up his current chair at Newcastle University in July 1998. He is a member of the academic advisory councils for several think-tanks, including Reform, Civitas, Institute of Economic Affairs, Taxpayers' Alliance and Globalisation Institute. He is an Adjunct Scholar at the Cato Institute, a member of the Mont Pelerin Society,[11] and a thought-leader for Schoolventures.

The thing is and it's something that all of the Friends of Durham seem to ignore is that the school got a fairly damning Financial Notice to Improve at the end of November.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ol-limited" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Ofsted report was the final straw.

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:37 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:The reason Britain carries less freight by rail is because of competitively short distances for trunk haul. Many European railways also have a wagon load service which is not profitable and when reintroduced by the privateers (the American owners of the privatised Railfreight companies) in 1998 was very swiftly dropped when, as we advised them. lost millions of pounds from day one.
The biggest freight profit maker was merry-go-round coal and steel both of which have dramatically declined. Our infrastucture is not bad, our rolling stock in the main is good but just like the big three railways in Western Europe is poor on secondary routes. Freight, unlike passenger, is completely private so no cross subsidisation is really possible.
Thanks. What about if we taxed the road hauliers out if existence?

Three problems I think.
Firstly there is insufficient capacity for slower freight on Britain's trunk railway. If you stick a 60MPH freight train in amongst 110MPH passenger trains you take 2.5 'slots' on that line. Also some lines are inadequately signalled and in some instances single line.
Secondly overall transport costs would increase as you would still generally have to top and tail rail freight movements with road operations.
Finally you would have to ensure all taxations was compatible with European competition law.
By the way I am not against it in principal but just think it would be unpalatable for the taxpayer/consumer.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:39 pm

Happy Birthday, pk1 – hope you're having a super day

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:39 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Hard to see what that "role" could be, though - maybe drumming up support for Labour amongst business, possibly? As long as he's fairly low key about it......

How about we have him arrested and committed to the Hague for trial as a war criminal? The surge of popularity would be immense, and it would ensure he wouldn't be going around actually saying anything.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:42 pm

Rednorth wrote:Will disability-hate crime cover anonymous malicious calls to the DWP benefit fraud hotline about disabled people?

It could be argued they are not only facilitating crime but actively indulging in it.

I seem to recall reading that something like 97% of the calls to the fraud hotline are basically bogus/unsubstantiated accusations, but please feel free to correct me if I got that wrong. A good friend of mine, who can only get around on a mobility scooter (and that is on a good day, on a bad day she cannot even move from her bed) has been 'shopped' four times; the first two her benefit was stopped and she only survived because we relayed round to help her, but by the third occasion her local office had sussed that a woman of 50 who has suffered two heart attacks, a stroke, severe carpal tunnel syndrome and so many other ailments her doctors cannot name them all really is not very likely to be making a dodgy claim/

So I'm with you on this one Red, if it isn't a crime it bloody well should be.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:46 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:The reason Britain carries less freight by rail is because of competitively short distances for trunk haul. Many European railways also have a wagon load service which is not profitable and when reintroduced by the privateers (the American owners of the privatised Railfreight companies) in 1998 was very swiftly dropped when, as we advised them. lost millions of pounds from day one.
The biggest freight profit maker was merry-go-round coal and steel both of which have dramatically declined. Our infrastucture is not bad, our rolling stock in the main is good but just like the big three railways in Western Europe is poor on secondary routes. Freight, unlike passenger, is completely private so no cross subsidisation is really possible.
Thanks. What about if we taxed the road hauliers out if existence?

Oy! My S-I-L is a long distance 40 ton container driver.....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:51 pm

British government can (and should) impose public registries on its overseas territories

http://www.taxjustice.net/2015/02/07/br ... rritories/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:53 pm

Oih Toby! That last photo needed a Health Warning!

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 9:58 pm

Well, I've got 10 shortcuts for articles at the G provided by FTNers ...... but I've not been there all week and I think, with the continued good links provided to other sources, I may actually have been weaned off it. Wait until tomorrow night though!

Edited to add: It's not easy to stay away though.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 10:02 pm

LAB ahead again in tonight's YouGov for S Times
Con 32, Lab 33, LD 7, UKIP 15, GRN 8

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 10:05 pm

rearofthestore wrote: Hi Tubby
Haven't felt the need to comment on the board for some time but feel I can't agree with your comment.
The Privatised railway, as I have indicated in a previous post some time ago, is inefficient, certainly not cost effective, has poor levels of both customer satisfaction and , just as important, poor levels of staff satisfaction. The East Coast franchise will only be better in terms of money back to the treasury if they increase non regulated fares and reduce staff satisfaction by imposing poorer working conditions.
What do I know about the railway. I worked for 27 years starting as a booking clerk at Manchester Victoria and finishing as senior executive in the privatised railway a in London. I know what worked and what didn't. The nationalised railway was king compared to the ill conceived, unpopular private railway that followed it. Something,by the way, I will never forgive John Major for. It wasn't broke, it needed investment but it was innovative and represented good value for money.

Thanks for reply.

I'm not sure we're disagreeing much really. I

certainly agree with the last bit about late period BR (and I can't recall it any earlier)- it was very efficient, and was short of investment. Partly because rail was seen as a declining industry, and partly because Major was bad at investment in general. It would have been much better to keep it as it was, and shift the roads capital budget to rail. Blair not promising to renationalize straightaway was a big failing, and could even have stopped the privatization altogether.

I wasn't making any great claims for the privatized rail system now, though it is better than with Railtrack and lunatic visions of nice trains for bosses and crap ones for secretaries. Where I say it works is returning money to the Treasury- by, as you say, raising unregulated fares and sweating the staff.

In the absence of political will to raise taxes substantially (and with rail coming way behind health) I can see why the Treasury takes the view it does.

Lucas and others have tried to make out that you take away privatization and you get BR level fares back. That isn't true.

Hope this makes more sense.

And please post more!

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 10:06 pm

Paul - (and anyone else interested)

On the old forum you'll remember we were doing some work on NHS Property Services Limited. I've since been nibbling away at the Company about the promise it made to load on its web site, in transparent view, the Asset Register. I've had e-mail correspondence and telephone calls with the Company about this. NHSSL knows what an Asset Register is but keeps telling me there is information on all the disposals (not transfers out though) on the web site. No, there is not, in the form which a professional firm of accountants would regard an Asset Register. The Company could be privatised (only currently one shareholder - SoS!). It's already tied in with another "body". When it transfers assets out, it's not possible to see where the value of that asset is, as was originally required, returned to the NHS (for England) front line services.

TheTwitter Account has suggested a meeting (probably to scare me off!).
https://twitter.com/giselle97/status/563371227860172801

What ho! I'm up for it. Want to be involved?

I can't currently get to all of the information I had compiled - with you Paul - or my e-mails but I think that I did send you "stuff", including a PDF I'd compiled. Don't suppose you could lay your hands on this stuff?

Here's the link to Deborah Harrington's article which prompted me to go for NHSSL again. I think people don't seem to know or care that they are being ripped off.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/de ... p4.twitter

Edited to add - I'll nip over to the old Forum tomorrow - if it's still there - and see if I can download some of the files we had/

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 10:09 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote:http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... ut-8596605

A university academic has come out in support of the Durham Free School. Of course, it's entirely academic, no vested interests etc.

he was founding president of the Education Fund, Orient Global, living for two years in Hyderabad, India (on unpaid leave from the University), where he helped create a chain of low cost private schools and associated educational infrastructure.

He is co-founder and chairman of Omega Schools Franchise Ltd, a chain of low-cost private schools in Ghana. Its first two schools opened in 2009, and it has grown to 40 schools with 20,000 students, with significant investment from Pearson's Affordable Learning Fund.

Tooley has also created embryonic chains of low-cost private schools in Sierra Leone and India. He is the patron of AFED - the Association of Formidable Educational Development - in Nigeria, an association of 3,000 low-cost private schools.

From Oxford he moved to the University of Manchesterin 1995; at the same time he also created the Education and Training Unit at the Institute of Economic Affairs in London. He took up his current chair at Newcastle University in July 1998. He is a member of the academic advisory councils for several think-tanks, including Reform, Civitas, Institute of Economic Affairs, Taxpayers' Alliance and Globalisation Institute. He is an Adjunct Scholar at the Cato Institute, a member of the Mont Pelerin Society,[11] and a thought-leader for Schoolventures.
The thing is and it's something that all of the Friends of Durham seem to ignore is that the school got a fairly damning Financial Notice to Improve at the end of November.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ol-limited" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Ofsted report was the final straw.

I love that academic's mindset- writing to Lord Nash, who works under Nicky Morgan. Silly girl, Nicky. Write to his lordship, he'll tell her.

Having created low cost private education, I'm surprised he's interested in high cost public education.

Yep, the EFA reports are the thing. Funny how they don't mention those.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 10:17 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Hunting ban could only apply in England under Welsh devolution plan
The change could see hunting with packs of dogs introduced in Wales in a similar model to Scotland, where packs can be used to flush out foxes before they are humanely put down. Hunting with dogs is legal in Northern Ireland, which would leave England as the sole redoubt for the hunting ban
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -plan.html

The right to legalise hunting in some form could be one of the measures devolved to Wales as part of a new devolution settlement later this month.
The idea, which is backed by Welsh secretary Stephen Crabb as long as it has cross-party support, is supported by Plaid Cyrmu, local farmers and hunting campaigners, as well as some Tory MPs.
Currently the Hunting Act 2004 restricts hunting to no more than two dogs in England and Wales, to flush out foxes after which they have to be shot.
But the change could see hunting with packs of dogs introduced in Wales in a similar model to Scotland, where packs can be used to flush out foxes before they are humanely put down.
There you go - for anyone still in any doubt about the seriously feudal wildlife bashing tendency in Plaid .... who like to present themselves as environmentally friendly and progressive. They are anything but ...

I am now sending this clipping to my friends in West Wales Animal Aid who are Plaid and still don't want to believe that their party supports such cruel practices.

Not sure Plaid are supporting it for that reason. They and the SNP like powers devolved for their own sake. More wedges you can get between yourself and Westminster (ie English people), the better.

Plaid are in a bit of a tricky position in that they seem to regard Cardiff as some imperial outpost. Perhaps once the powers go there, they start trying to get them transferred to Caernarfon or something. The SNP at least consider Edinburgh as being properly Scottish- so much so that everything conceivable gets transferred upwards there, and anyone wanting to keep powers in Inverness or Glasgow is a dinosaur.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 10:19 pm

After the 1997 GE I recall being surprised just how pro-hunting most if not all Plaid Cymru MPs were. Its a lot more understandable now.

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 10:40 pm

Came across this and couldn't resist. It's the spitting image of one of my Dad's cats .... I used to have to feed him cod in the a.m. and chicken thighs in the p.m. Scandalous, I know, but a habit I had to continue after Dad died or'se I would have been struck down by lightning from my Mam who'd gone before him!

: 2015-02-07_223844.jpg (56.77 KiB) Viewed 7826 times

EDITED to add - bundles of fun it was, me being a vegetarian and all!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 10:59 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Hunting ban could only apply in England under Welsh devolution plan
The change could see hunting with packs of dogs introduced in Wales in a similar model to Scotland, where packs can be used to flush out foxes before they are humanely put down. Hunting with dogs is legal in Northern Ireland, which would leave England as the sole redoubt for the hunting ban
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -plan.html

The right to legalise hunting in some form could be one of the measures devolved to Wales as part of a new devolution settlement later this month.
The idea, which is backed by Welsh secretary Stephen Crabb as long as it has cross-party support, is supported by Plaid Cyrmu, local farmers and hunting campaigners, as well as some Tory MPs.
Currently the Hunting Act 2004 restricts hunting to no more than two dogs in England and Wales, to flush out foxes after which they have to be shot.
But the change could see hunting with packs of dogs introduced in Wales in a similar model to Scotland, where packs can be used to flush out foxes before they are humanely put down.
There you go - for anyone still in any doubt about the seriously feudal wildlife bashing tendency in Plaid .... who like to present themselves as environmentally friendly and progressive. They are anything but ...

I am now sending this clipping to my friends in West Wales Animal Aid who are Plaid and still don't want to believe that their party supports such cruel practices.
Not sure Plaid are supporting it for that reason. They and the SNP like powers devolved for their own sake. More wedges you can get between yourself and Westminster (ie English people), the better.

Plaid are in a bit of a tricky position in that they seem to regard Cardiff as some imperial outpost. Perhaps once the powers go there, they start trying to get them transferred to Caernarfon or something. The SNP at least consider Edinburgh as being properly Scottish- so much so that everything conceivable gets transferred upwards there, and anyone wanting to keep powers in Inverness or Glasgow is a dinosaur.

Doesn't matter why they are supporting it. They are presenting themselves as greener than green in lots of places - and it's simply not true. They were the architects of the badger cull proposals here. If we get devolved powers to repeal the hunting ban ... their farming / feudal wing will be pushing like crazy to bring it back. It will be a bartering tool in the Welsh Government ... that's what happened with badger culling before.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 11:05 pm

Nick Sutton ‏@suttonnick 1h1 hour ago
Sunday Telegraph front page:
'Cover-up' scandal in the NHS
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers

: Cover Up Scandal In NHS _ Telegraph.jpg (58.84 KiB) Viewed 7811 times

What now?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 11:09 pm

Cllr Karen Danczuk ‏@KarenDanczuk 4h4 hours ago
I find it so fascinating how many stuck up women there are in the Labour Party. I really dislike the way they look down at our own kind. KD

What is it with her? I find it fascinating how publicity crazed she seems to be ...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 11:19 pm

Alastair Campbell ‏@campbellclaret 7m7 minutes ago
Three fundraisers in a row where members have asked for far stronger defence of Labour record and far harder attacks on useless cruel govt

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 11:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Cllr Karen Danczuk ‏@KarenDanczuk 4h4 hours ago
I find it so fascinating how many stuck up women there are in the Labour Party. I really dislike the way they look down at our own kind. KD
What is it with her? I find it fascinating how publicity crazed she seems to be ...

Prior to this evening, I had never bothered to take even the most cursory notice of the woman, but water can only drip upon a stone for so long before it wears away, so I did a simple Google Image search. Just the name, no adjectives. The first three lines appeared to be comprised entirely of selfies with three features prominently displayed, the least obvious being her face. Why she hasn't just got them out on page 3 by now seems to be the only mystery.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Feb, 2015 11:42 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/f ... ium=twitte" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A new election battleground has opened up as Labour pledges to save popular Sure Start children’s centres from further closures and double the number of childcare places they provide to more than 118,000.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 2:04 am

giselle97 wrote:Paul - (and anyone else interested)

On the old forum you'll remember we were doing some work on NHS Property Services Limited. I've since been nibbling away at the Company about the promise it made to load on its web site, in transparent view, the Asset Register. I've had e-mail correspondence and telephone calls with the Company about this. NHSSL knows what an Asset Register is but keeps telling me there is information on all the disposals (not transfers out though) on the web site. No, there is not, in the form which a professional firm of accountants would regard an Asset Register. The Company could be privatised (only currently one shareholder - SoS!). It's already tied in with another "body". When it transfers assets out, it's not possible to see where the value of that asset is, as was originally required, returned to the NHS (for England) front line services.

TheTwitter Account has suggested a meeting (probably to scare me off!).
https://twitter.com/giselle97/status/563371227860172801

What ho! I'm up for it. Want to be involved?

I can't currently get to all of the information I had compiled - with you Paul - or my e-mails but I think that I did send you "stuff", including a PDF I'd compiled. Don't suppose you could lay your hands on this stuff?

Here's the link to Deborah Harrington's article which prompted me to go for NHSSL again. I think people don't seem to know or care that they are being ripped off.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/de ... p4.twitter

Edited to add - I'll nip over to the old Forum tomorrow - if it's still there - and see if I can download some of the files we had/

The Harrington article lays it all out very starkly. How the heck do we turn that particular juggernaut around? It has to be done, somehow.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 7:56 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/f ... ium=twitte

A new election battleground has opened up as Labour pledges to save popular Sure Start children’s centres from further closures and double the number of childcare places they provide to more than 118,000.

Sadly it's too late to save them around here. Almost all the original Sure Starts, the ones that served the most deprived areas, are gone along with all of the original and dedicated workers. Those that remain have been gutted to such an extent that they are no longer the same service I knew all those years ago or are newer school-based Children's Centres that never had the staff or resources to do much for their communities in the first place.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 8:13 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... homophobia

Labour plans blacklist to curb rising hate crime in U.K.

People convicted of homophobic, transgender or disability hate crime would be put on a “blacklist” to warn future employers of past misdemeanours under new proposals by Labour.

The shadow home secretary, Yvette Cooper, will on Monday unveil a strategy to tackle the UK’s soaring rise in antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia and abuse of people with disabilities. The package includes making homophobic and disability hate crimes an aggravated criminal offence, ensuring that police treat such offences in the same way as racist hate crimes.
I am almost tempted to go and read that, the comments BTL must be very revealing.

There's a posting frenzy from the expected folks.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 8:45 am

What Ho, Peasants!

Lady Jacobia Rees-Moggy heah!

Before I tootle off to hunt, I thought I'd remind you all of which side your crusts are margarined.
I am detecting some restiveness among the servants, and it's simply not good enough.

That ghastly little rag you all pretend not to read (and I know you do - I have my spies below stairs I'd have you know) is full of nonsense about your rulers' ability to attract more rich people to the fold and our Black and White Ball.
What none of you understand is that we need these foreigners to give us their money - Jonty has explained that you would never understand the hedge fund thingie, and why would you? Such knowledge won't get the grates black-leaded!
Once we have all their cash, we spend it on our estates so that the likes of you have work to do and dormitories to live in - where would you be without us? So stop reading red rags and register to vote for that nice little chap from Wiltshire.

I have been given to understand from the under-footman that some of you intend to support that odd little Londoner with the Jewish pater. The last time we had one of those he recanted PDQ and became an earl, so let that be a lesson to you all!

Toodlepip!

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 8:46 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Rednorth wrote:Ed should really go hard on the tax haven stuff. People aren't impressed by billionaire tax dodgers who don't even live here telling us how to vote.

I sometimes don't understand the left; whereas the right finds a populist issue like immigration and exploits it to the full, where Labour's views coincide with popular views....like tax havens, railways etc, they seem reluctant to exploit it.
What people think they know about railways is basically wrong, and people like Caroline Lucas can't be bothered to find out and tell them. The problem is that taxpayers have never wanted to subsidize fares like they have in other countries. So the Treasury looks to maximise revenue from train operators, which doesn't encourage low fares. This is where the reluctance to renationalize comes from- because finance ministers don't fancy raising the sort of tax for fare subsidies, not because they're all neo-liberal thickos. East Coast clearly did very well, but in terms of getting money back to the Treasury, the private bid will almost certainly be better at that.

There are obvious criticisms of the fragmented privatized railway though- duplication, shareholder profits. But it basically works in terms of the sort of public money available.

Morning all...and sorry, Tubby, but I most definitely disagree here - 1) on 'the taxpayer' - other human members of society do exist and should also be counted (it's the division that gets me - if you're not a TAXPAYER you're not contributing to society and are therefore either a shirker or a scrounger - which section of people stand to gain the most from this division?) 2) Every poll that has ever been taken has returned massive support for a publicly funded and run railway system (and utilies/water etc etc) 3) Mass transportation (like health and education) is too important to the fabric of a modern society to be left in the hands of 'business' and 'the market' (and there has never been a logical or coherent argument or any evidence to suggest 'the market' is better other than for the pockets of those on the 'inside') as it should be prioritising the best and most efficient way to move people around....lest we forget, Beeching destroyed the railways (as he was tasked to do) after producing a report from the point of view of the Chairman of ICI....not the point of view of someone thinking about all people and what would work best for all with responsible investment. As to where we go from here, I'd start with a full investigation into the real subsidies (not the ones the politicos bang on about - 'it costs/it'll cost the taxpayer millisquillibillions, I tell you') channeling money from the treasury directly into the pockets of those on the inside (of the 1% and their enablers and lackeys). Ever wondered why the Railways, heavy industry (steel, manufacturing) and the coal industry were so heavily targetted by and since Thatcher? 'Break the unity of the common man and we (the elite) can get all our money back' (and teach the dirty stinking proles a lesson or two about our superiority whilst we're about it)....trouble is, they've always been wrong - it's not 'their' money in the first place and, frankly, they don't really understand the concept of 'money' and certainly not in it's relationship with/to labour (small 'l' labour....sweat of the brow etc).

As usual, I'm not convinced this ramble is in the slightest bit coherent....so if it disappears, I've noticed I'm talking load of old sh1t

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:09 am

giselle97 wrote:Paul - (and anyone else interested)

On the old forum you'll remember we were doing some work on NHS Property Services Limited. I've since been nibbling away at the Company about the promise it made to load on its web site, in transparent view, the Asset Register. I've had e-mail correspondence and telephone calls with the Company about this. NHSSL knows what an Asset Register is but keeps telling me there is information on all the disposals (not transfers out though) on the web site. No, there is not, in the form which a professional firm of accountants would regard an Asset Register. The Company could be privatised (only currently one shareholder - SoS!). It's already tied in with another "body". When it transfers assets out, it's not possible to see where the value of that asset is, as was originally required, returned to the NHS (for England) front line services.

TheTwitter Account has suggested a meeting (probably to scare me off!).
https://twitter.com/giselle97/status/563371227860172801

What ho! I'm up for it. Want to be involved?

I can't currently get to all of the information I had compiled - with you Paul - or my e-mails but I think that I did send you "stuff", including a PDF I'd compiled. Don't suppose you could lay your hands on this stuff?

Here's the link to Deborah Harrington's article which prompted me to go for NHSSL again. I think people don't seem to know or care that they are being ripped off.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/de ... p4.twitter

Edited to add - I'll nip over to the old Forum tomorrow - if it's still there - and see if I can download some of the files we had/

Hi Giselle I'll pick this up later

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:10 am

So disappointing to see the mid-Staffs myth appear yet again this morning - this time in the Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 31528.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:11 am

Spacedone wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/f ... ium=twitte

A new election battleground has opened up as Labour pledges to save popular Sure Start children’s centres from further closures and double the number of childcare places they provide to more than 118,000.
Sadly it's too late to save them around here. Almost all the original Sure Starts, the ones that served the most deprived areas, are gone along with all of the original and dedicated workers. Those that remain have been gutted to such an extent that they are no longer the same service I knew all those years ago or are newer school-based Children's Centres that never had the staff or resources to do much for their communities in the first place.

I'm fairly certain an incoming Labour administration would find a way to quickly and effectively start to devolve/distribute funds and re-open some centres - if there's a will there's a way...there's a fair bit to unpick though - I have personal knowledge of a local Early Years childcare setting (or nursery, if you prefer) - running at the absolute limit of what can be achieved on the funds provided (by the 'charity' that 'owns' the setting, whilst said 'charity' still finding plenty of funds for a nice big Head Office to produce lots of 'corporate vision/ethos' statements and extra paperwork for already heavily oppressed staff) - if you start to treat people like intelligent human beings it's amazing what can be achieved in a relatively short space of time (...but of course, I live in Hope etc etc).

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:11 am

AAA rating. Deficit reduction plan fail.

What else can we expect Marr to ask Osborne about?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:14 am

Here is the authoritative link to quote when saying HSMR data "should be ignored"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-26329750" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:24 am

StephenDolan wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... homophobia

Labour plans blacklist to curb rising hate crime in U.K.

People convicted of homophobic, transgender or disability hate crime would be put on a “blacklist” to warn future employers of past misdemeanours under new proposals by Labour.

The shadow home secretary, Yvette Cooper, will on Monday unveil a strategy to tackle the UK’s soaring rise in antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia and abuse of people with disabilities. The package includes making homophobic and disability hate crimes an aggravated criminal offence, ensuring that police treat such offences in the same way as racist hate crimes.
I am almost tempted to go and read that, the comments BTL must be very revealing.
There's a posting frenzy from the expected folks.

And not a shred of self awareness in evidence I'd guess.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:26 am

Morning all - and a very frosty one it is here.

Paul Lewis ‏@paullewismoney 1h1 hour ago
Best nugget in Observer scoop on Conservative funding - firm which lends to public at 74.8% lends to Party at 3.5% http://goo.gl/Tm8KLe

That's from this eye-popping article.

The super-rich helping to plan a glamorous Tory fundraiser
Zoe Purvis, makeup artist to the rich, leads financiers’ and magnates’ spouses on organising committee of Black and White Ball to boost election coffers
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... zoe-purvis

Which is what Lady Rees Moggia was parrotting on about upthread.

Am I awful in wishing for Cameron to have a very public Bush-pretzel moment at one of these dos? A foie gras canape would be karma. He needs to be seen having a bit of luxury sick spattered down his front - would sum him up in a single image.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:26 am

StephenDolan wrote:AAA rating. Deficit reduction plan fail.

What else can we expect Marr to ask Osborne about?

Tax avoidance, CelticTiger?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:30 am

Four reasons why big business attacks on Labour have failed
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/02 ... ave-failed

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:32 am

What he does to relax.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:34 am

john spellar ‏@spellar 2h2 hours ago
Mail reports Tory donor gave Party £12k , then tried to claim it on expenses- traditional Tory values http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... enses.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

john spellar ‏@spellar 2h2 hours ago
another Home Office shambles as thousand fraudsters wed British women to get visas and not ONE deported ! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mbles.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

That first story is funny because it's so outrageous

A multi-millionaire Tory backer known as 'King Prawn' has become embroiled in an embarrassing row after trying to claim a £12,000 donation to the party on expenses.
Frozen food entrepreneur Iqbal Ahmed, appointed to a think tank by George Osborne after a separate donation to the Chancellor, tried to obtain the money from the British Bangladesh Chamber of Commerce.
Members declared their 'shock' and refused on the grounds that the organisation is strictly non-political. And they have written to the Chancellor calling on him to investigate.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:43 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all - and a very frosty one it is here.

Paul Lewis ‏@paullewismoney 1h1 hour ago
Best nugget in Observer scoop on Conservative funding - firm which lends to public at 74.8% lends to Party at 3.5% http://goo.gl/Tm8KLe
That's from this eye-popping article.

The super-rich helping to plan a glamorous Tory fundraiser
Zoe Purvis, makeup artist to the rich, leads financiers’ and magnates’ spouses on organising committee of Black and White Ball to boost election coffers
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... zoe-purvis
Which is what Lady Rees Moggia was parrotting on about upthread.

Am I lawful in wishing for Cameron to have a very public Bush-pretzel moment at one of these dos? A foie gras canape would be karma. He needs to be seen having a bit of luxury sick spattered down his front - would sum him up in a single image.

It would definitely be lawful here in Hope - given that this is the most transparent Govt evahhh (as it's leader is fully empty) where do we find out where and when these (and other) events take place? I've got a lead on where my Westmonster Corporate Rep may be for an evening leading up to the election (you'd think there would be more exposure for a Tory to pontificate about how absolutely brilliant they've been for evahh) and am thinking of leading the Clucking Chorus...but the ability to deliver 'luxury sick' (I'm assuming any rotten-smelling detritus would do) to just below the upturned nose would be priceless...oh wait...I think I misunderstood...

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:44 am

[quote="rebeccariots2"]

Which is what Lady Rees Moggia was parrotting on about upthread.

Rebecca!

I have instructed you many times to complete your spelling sampler and you have plenty of time to stitch away at your ignorance between breakfast and luncheon.
I simply do not understand why you insist on spelling the femily name incorrectly - after all, one IS your femily. I may well sack you with no references!

Having returned from the hunt with no blooding for little Gervase, one is not in the mood to suffer such indignities - your betters do not "parrot", Miss.

I am also very suspicious to note that Mr.Riots was not where he should be, serving stirrup cup outside the femily's hostelry - if he has been doing that sabotaging again (and one of the hoi polloi with the scarf over his physog looked very like him) Jonty will have to have you removed from the cottage.

It would appear that some people are very unhappy with little Samantha Sheffield. I'm aware that she didn't marry well, poor gel; but it's simply not on to criticise her little job.
When one lives in Town, one has to have something useful to do. Directing creatively in the handbag industry is just the thing. Even that grocers' daughter liked handbags.

Now then, Rebecca - you have done very well to rise from under-scullion to parlour maid in just ten years. But don't let this go to your head, is my advice.
If you keep on with this silly rebellious streak, something will have to be done, and I can assure you that you will never find another employer as kind as we are.

I shall expect suitable deference in future.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sun 08 Feb, 2015 9:46 am

Marr not interrupting Osborne. Must be a Tory then.