Neither do I, at all.AngryAsWell wrote:Agree, I don't want a different leader.yahyah wrote:Please can we hold back on ditching Ed talk until later in the day.
It just feels too raw just now.
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_e_sad.gif)
Neither do I, at all.AngryAsWell wrote:Agree, I don't want a different leader.yahyah wrote:Please can we hold back on ditching Ed talk until later in the day.
It just feels too raw just now.
Yep, Farage got beat.PorFavor wrote:Has Nigel Farage's Thanet constituency declared yet? (I'm avoiding any news outside of this site at present.) If Ukip's "flagship" takes a nose-dive it will probably be to the good (although I appreciate that it will have come too late to help Ed Miliband).
More thanks TCtinyclanger2 wrote:Me neither. I want a five-year plan to change this bullshit situation we have now.AngryAsWell wrote:Agree, I don't want a different leader.yahyah wrote:Please can we hold back on ditching Ed talk until later in the day.
It just feels too raw just now.
No, it really isn't. Maybe for one poll but not for the numbers they took.WelshIan wrote:Vote share so far:
Tories - 36.8
Labour - 30.6
UKIP - 12.6
LibDem - 7.7
SNP - 4.8
Green - 3.7
I think that's within the margin of error for the polling companies?
Yep, cos he's man of integrity.frightful_oik wrote:I suspect he'll resign.AngryAsWell wrote:Agree, I don't want a different leader.yahyah wrote:Please can we hold back on ditching Ed talk until later in the day.
It just feels too raw just now.
The upside of this, and it is a small upside, is that they are probably now finished as a party. Farage was charismatic, Carswell isn't.RogerOThornhill wrote:Yep, Farage got beat.PorFavor wrote:Has Nigel Farage's Thanet constituency declared yet? (I'm avoiding any news outside of this site at present.) If Ukip's "flagship" takes a nose-dive it will probably be to the good (although I appreciate that it will have come too late to help Ed Miliband).
Whether he's formally stepped down or not I'm not sure.
Carswell is their only MP - locals clearly like him more than the locals liked Reckless.
Actually there is evidence that most of Labour's key policies this time round *were* popular.pk1 wrote:But some of those policies were clearly unacceptable to the great British unwashed.StephenDolan wrote: Definitely. Please not's have the policies ditched too.
RogerOThornhill wrote:Yep, Farage got beat.PorFavor wrote:Has Nigel Farage's Thanet constituency declared yet? (I'm avoiding any news outside of this site at present.) If Ukip's "flagship" takes a nose-dive it will probably be to the good (although I appreciate that it will have come too late to help Ed Miliband).
Whether he's formally stepped down or not I'm not sure.
Carswell is their only MP - locals clearly like him more than the locals liked Reckless.
May I thank you for your perusal, Paddington. I too lurked for some considerable time before signing up.Paddington Bear wrote:I have just now properly registered here.
I've been lurking after finding my way over via the Guardian comments ( for quite a while - I'm a shy reader...)
I'd like to thank you for the comfort you didn't know you were providing. I was one of the 30 or so 'guests' that stayed through the night.
My wife found me on the sofa this morning - and then again when she got back from taking our daughter to school. I had my knees under my chin and tears running down my face. I'm a hairy bloke - I should be doing something but I really don't know what I can do... I'm frustrated and angry.
My daughter is six - her uniform is either red or blue. She insisted on wearing red today.
Luckier than some though - I'm in Sheffield Heeley, a 'safe' Labour seat. So I won't have to walk out of my door and be surrounded by aliens.
Thanks again
I'm not sure they were.pk1 wrote:But some of those policies were clearly unacceptable to the great British unwashed.StephenDolan wrote: Definitely. Please not's have the policies ditched too.
Agree, where the ground work has been put in some results have held or improved. We need more conversations, and we need to build from the grass-roots up. I rather suspect though, that it'll be a swing to the right and more getting in bed with Murdock and the City. Because with Ed gone, that's what I can see happening. Or indeed, the party doing what it usually does after a defeat, ripping itself apart.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:One of the notable results last night was Gloria de Piero in Ashfield, who was defending a majority of 192 and won a majority of 8820 this time around; Oliver Coppard reduced Clegg's majority from 15284 to 2353. They both did the same thing, put the hours in, put the footwork in .... that has to be the focus, not 4 million conversations, but 40, 50, 60 million over the next few years.tinyclanger2 wrote:I hope this isn't a post-mortem (if it is apologies). I think that the problem is not Labour - and certainly not Ed - but the fact that the political landscape has changed so much. We need to adapt to that. Grassroots engagement, the single issue approach. And not dividing ourselves. We need all of us non-Tories to form a strong anti-bastard coalition to fight this strategically, rather than continue to compete with each other.
I don't know what he's said - but I can make an informed guess. So, thank you.StephenDolan wrote:John Reid. Fuck off. Just fuck right off.
Agree, they are part of the problem and need to go. But, you'll not convince Hugo of that, as he's a Blairite.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Oh, had missed that gem from Hugo earlier. Umunna and Cooper especially are part of the problem, not the solution.
(the fact they are so bigged up by the MSM should warn you off by itself - lets remember now that these are the same people that assured us Jim Murphy would turn the tide for Labour in Scotland; maybe the "outsider" Findlay might have got us 0 MPs there rather than 1, but then again maybe not)
Agree with some sadnessohsocynical wrote:@Anatoly
So now what, Indy Ref 2 which the SNP may win but which will destroy the Scottish economy?
I'm sorry if this offends anyone, but I am feeling vicious.
I hope it does. They have turned their backs on us.
I hope they suffer and turn on each other when it all goes pear shaped and the English government ignores them just as they have, and in the future, will be ignoring our suffering.
If I'm still alive when it happens I shall laugh.
Bugger off, you Tartan Tory bit*h!tinyclanger2 wrote:Sturgeon. It's all Labour's fault.The failure here is of Labour to beat the Conservatives … Labour has barely increased the share of the vote.
I know you here predicted it, but Jesus wept.
Yep agree, there are only downsidesSpinningHugo wrote:I am afraid I only have downsides.tinyclanger2 wrote:So Anatoly and Hugo - what's a realistic outlook for maximising any potential advantage of the current situation (slimness of Tory majority, etc), while minimising any long-term irreverisble (eg: Brexit) damage of the Tory/SNP partnership made in hell.
First the Tories can get through boundary changes: making victory even harder.
Second they can, at a minimum, get through the Smith Commission reforms, excluding Scottish votes in rest of UK matters where devolved.
It really matters whether the majority is 2 or 8.
If it is 2, we can stop things like repeal of the Human Rights Act.
If not, not.
Hard to square it isn't it. Almost Labours entire policy platform was popular and yet voters opted for the polar opposite.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Actually there is evidence that most of Labour's key policies this time round *were* popular.pk1 wrote:But some of those policies were clearly unacceptable to the great British unwashed.StephenDolan wrote: Definitely. Please not's have the policies ditched too.
Nope, what lost this was a giant irrational emotional spasm by the Scots and the (Tory and MSM prompted) reaction of rUK to it.
The truly shocking part of this election debacle was that the Labour Party still believed until the last moment that victory (of sorts) was at hand. We were caught with our electoral pants down.
Whilst retaking Bradford West was a rare high point in a dire night, the results as a whole were reminiscent of that seat’s 2012 by-election. We had the canvass returns. We had done the work we felt was required of us. And yet the tidal wave of public opinion washed us away – blindsided – anyway. That can’t be allowed to happen again. Only by being firmly rooted in communities and campaigning from that position can the Labour Party rise again from the ground up. It will take time. It will mean rethinking some policy, organisational and messaging shibboleths. And here’s the worst part – it may be a long road back. But it’s the road we need to take.
Following that road may be best served by having a period of stability - and, if possible, calm - rather than rushing into a noisy and combative leadership contest that produces much heat but little illumination.
We will know one way or another in the coming hours. As the shock wears off. As the exhaustions kicks in all over again. As the reality sinks in. But never forget this moment. How you felt now after this appalling night at the polls. It will remind you next time complacency kicks in – and it may drive the party to what comes next.
With my best on the difficult morning
But, of course.SpinningHugo wrote:Banks, bookies, estate agents, seeing their share price rallying.
Thank you, @Paddington Bear, and I wish we could be formally welcoming you here on a day that brought us all more cheer. I've often wondered who the night-shift guests were – and now we know that one of them is you. Good on your lass for insisting on wearing red today. She is a big part of our future and I wish her the best – that she be the best she can be. I'm also so glad that Sheffield Heeley is still 'safe' – long may that continue! Now, cry all you need but help yourself to free drinks and food in our fully subsidised bar, cafe, and kitchen.Paddington Bear wrote:I have just now properly registered here.
I've been lurking after finding my way over via the Guardian comments ( for quite a while - I'm a shy reader...)
I'd like to thank you for the comfort you didn't know you were providing. I was one of the 30 or so 'guests' that stayed through the night.
My wife found me on the sofa this morning - and then again when she got back from taking our daughter to school. I had my knees under my chin and tears running down my face. I'm a hairy bloke - I should be doing something but I really don't know what I can do... I'm frustrated and angry.
My daughter is six - her uniform is either red or blue. She insisted on wearing red today.
Luckier than some though - I'm in Sheffield Heeley, a 'safe' Labour seat. So I won't have to walk out of my door and be surrounded by aliens.
Thanks again
tinyclanger2 wrote:Looks like Miliband is about to resign.
What a terrible waste.
Yep, that's the thing - in 1992 everybody involved (on all sides) could feel a swing to the Tories in the last 48 hours even if the polls didn't pick it up totally.pk1 wrote:I don't always agree with Mark Ferguson but his email this morning ended with something I can agree with:
The truly shocking part of this election debacle was that the Labour Party still believed until the last moment that victory (of sorts) was at hand. We were caught with our electoral pants down.
Whilst retaking Bradford West was a rare high point in a dire night, the results as a whole were reminiscent of that seat’s 2012 by-election. We had the canvass returns. We had done the work we felt was required of us. And yet the tidal wave of public opinion washed us away – blindsided – anyway. That can’t be allowed to happen again. Only by being firmly rooted in communities and campaigning from that position can the Labour Party rise again from the ground up. It will take time. It will mean rethinking some policy, organisational and messaging shibboleths. And here’s the worst part – it may be a long road back. But it’s the road we need to take.
Following that road may be best served by having a period of stability - and, if possible, calm - rather than rushing into a noisy and combative leadership contest that produces much heat but little illumination.
We will know one way or another in the coming hours. As the shock wears off. As the exhaustions kicks in all over again. As the reality sinks in. But never forget this moment. How you felt now after this appalling night at the polls. It will remind you next time complacency kicks in – and it may drive the party to what comes next.
With my best on the difficult morning
It's clear these Tories can say whatever the hell they like. Anything & everything. The mess will always be someone else's fault. And I guess a lot of people will believe it.RogerOThornhill wrote:They told an awful lot of lies.citizenJA wrote:Have the Tories stolen this election? Have they cheated?
The one good thing is that they can't say that they're clearing up anyone's mess other than their own.
rustinpeace wrote:
Well, well, well... a Conservative majority. A Conservative majority. A dream come true. I'm so happy I can barely type. Several of you now need to look over your posts of the last five years and have a word with yourselves. In your own time.
Etc.etc.etc.etc.
I'd love to stay and chat, but I have some champagne to open and at least five more years of Conservative government to
enjoy. So long, lefties. 1,825 days. You're going to love it.
Your pal,
Rusty
Just 1% more!AnatolyKasparov wrote:I don't think "disenfrachisement" has much to do with it, tbh.
Quite a bit of the polling error is that they all overestimated the turnout, sometimes considerably so. Forget the exit poll, when I saw in the first actual result that turnout was up just 1% on 2010 I feared the worst (despite the reasonable pro-Labour swing)
We know that the hardcore Tory support will always turn out. Labour and UKIP especially relied on previous non-voters showing up this time - it seems that quite a few didn't. And the lesson there is that quite a few "lefties" need to spend the next 5 years less dicking about on social media, and more organising and getting others organised.
Polls are fucking useless or Tories stole this election.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yep, that's the thing - in 1992 everybody involved (on all sides) could feel a swing to the Tories in the last 48 hours even if the polls didn't pick it up totally.pk1 wrote:I don't always agree with Mark Ferguson but his email this morning ended with something I can agree with:
The truly shocking part of this election debacle was that the Labour Party still believed until the last moment that victory (of sorts) was at hand. We were caught with our electoral pants down.
Whilst retaking Bradford West was a rare high point in a dire night, the results as a whole were reminiscent of that seat’s 2012 by-election. We had the canvass returns. We had done the work we felt was required of us. And yet the tidal wave of public opinion washed us away – blindsided – anyway. That can’t be allowed to happen again. Only by being firmly rooted in communities and campaigning from that position can the Labour Party rise again from the ground up. It will take time. It will mean rethinking some policy, organisational and messaging shibboleths. And here’s the worst part – it may be a long road back. But it’s the road we need to take.
Following that road may be best served by having a period of stability - and, if possible, calm - rather than rushing into a noisy and combative leadership contest that produces much heat but little illumination.
We will know one way or another in the coming hours. As the shock wears off. As the exhaustions kicks in all over again. As the reality sinks in. But never forget this moment. How you felt now after this appalling night at the polls. It will remind you next time complacency kicks in – and it may drive the party to what comes next.
With my best on the difficult morning
This time round, the last polls actually showed a small move to *Labour* - literally nobody saw what was coming, even the most insanely optimistic Tories were saying c300 seats. There was a widespread belief the SNP would under-perform as well, in fact the Scottish polls were the only ones that were right![]()
This is a systemic polling failure that is being compared to some with Alberta in 2012.
If its any comfort, earlier this week the polls there *were* right and the Tory government there got smashed
There's going to be an awful lot of private health and education companies rubbing their hands at what is going to come their way. There's several ways to skin a cat - outsourcing will go ahead leaving a shell of a 'public sector' in place to con people that it's still the same.daydreamer wrote:But, of course.SpinningHugo wrote:Banks, bookies, estate agents, seeing their share price rallying.
Yeah, the task just became even more difficult. Have some thanks.frightful_oik wrote:5 years ago I didn't see the BBC's swing to the right coming. Social media is all the left can fight back with now. And the right can pay to astroturf that. Councils will get the blame for cuts. It's going to be tricky for sure.
Yep, much lower than *all* pollsters were predicting - and surely a major reason for their failure.StephenDolan wrote:66% turnout. Depressingly low.