Friday 8th May 2015

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:31 am

pk1 wrote:I don't always agree with Mark Ferguson but his email this morning ended with something I can agree with:

The truly shocking part of this election debacle was that the Labour Party still believed until the last moment that victory (of sorts) was at hand. We were caught with our electoral pants down.

Whilst retaking Bradford West was a rare high point in a dire night, the results as a whole were reminiscent of that seat’s 2012 by-election. We had the canvass returns. We had done the work we felt was required of us. And yet the tidal wave of public opinion washed us away – blindsided – anyway. That can’t be allowed to happen again. Only by being firmly rooted in communities and campaigning from that position can the Labour Party rise again from the ground up. It will take time. It will mean rethinking some policy, organisational and messaging shibboleths. And here’s the worst part – it may be a long road back. But it’s the road we need to take.

Following that road may be best served by having a period of stability - and, if possible, calm - rather than rushing into a noisy and combative leadership contest that produces much heat but little illumination.

We will know one way or another in the coming hours. As the shock wears off. As the exhaustions kicks in all over again. As the reality sinks in. But never forget this moment. How you felt now after this appalling night at the polls. It will remind you next time complacency kicks in – and it may drive the party to what comes next.

With my best on the difficult morning

Yes, I read that and thought it was measured and wise. But I don't think we're going to see that happening, do you? The various factions should try to come together and, between them, try to thrash out a mutually acceptable way forward (in so far as is possible). But all we seem to get is a "told you you were wrong - gotcha" gloating type of thing. Wounds aren't allowed to heal a bit, no respect for grief, if that's the right word (and I think it is). Surely there's some room for decency in politics? Or have we just seen it fleetingly, only for it to melt away?

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:31 am

AngryAsWell wrote:David Green retweeted
Dr Katy Shaw ‏@DrKatyShaw · 3 hrs3 hours ago
Theresa May confirms Data Communications Bill will goahead now LibDems are gone - this is Snoopers Charter. Welcome to next 5 years #GE2015

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:32 am

citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Have the Tories stolen this election? Have they cheated?
They told an awful lot of lies.

The one good thing is that they can't say that they're clearing up anyone's mess other than their own.
It's clear these Tories can say whatever the hell they like. Anything & everything. The mess will always be someone else's fault. And I guess a lot of people will believe it.

Do not assume they all believe it - we do not know why they voted Tory yet

The voting patterns look odd and suggest there was a 'Fear Factor' in there which led to a vote for the status quo

I still think this support is very soft and if they continue on the road the plan - which they surely will they may seen things turning against them fairly rapidly such as what happened in 92

Then you will see sparks fly

I know I am being very optimistic in my posts but I think we have to try to be and also look at the opponent's weak spots

The biggest weak spot is Cameron himself and his arrogance......I think he will t see himself as unstoppable. Also his lieutenants will start jockeying to replace him in around 2018 and they will want to win in 2020.

How can they maintain discipline with a EU referendum and a leadership contest going on?

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:32 am

LadyCentauria wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
yahyah wrote:Just to add...in my constituency the council handled the Coalition's changes in voting registration very well. Labour here got 9.7%, only 5.8% in 2010.

Could that be a factor ?
Has I've been avoiding the MSM, could someone please tell me what Dan Jarvis' % was, up or down? I only mention as Barnsley Council, as far as I know, automatically registered everyone. Everyone I know didn't have to do a thing but still received their polling cards. If Yahyah's theory holds any water at all then his % will have gone up? Though, don't forget it is a safe Labour seat.
He increased his majority, @daydreamer!

Ed Miliband arriving at HQ now

Thank you LadyC

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:33 am

Sorry just popped back for one final thought. Things may have not turned out as I'd wished, but my recent reference to Esther Vey's news wasn't too far off the mark.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:34 am

Clegg has resigned

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:34 am

PorFavor wrote:
pk1 wrote:I don't always agree with Mark Ferguson but his email this morning ended with something I can agree with:

The truly shocking part of this election debacle was that the Labour Party still believed until the last moment that victory (of sorts) was at hand. We were caught with our electoral pants down.

Whilst retaking Bradford West was a rare high point in a dire night, the results as a whole were reminiscent of that seat’s 2012 by-election. We had the canvass returns. We had done the work we felt was required of us. And yet the tidal wave of public opinion washed us away – blindsided – anyway. That can’t be allowed to happen again. Only by being firmly rooted in communities and campaigning from that position can the Labour Party rise again from the ground up. It will take time. It will mean rethinking some policy, organisational and messaging shibboleths. And here’s the worst part – it may be a long road back. But it’s the road we need to take.

Following that road may be best served by having a period of stability - and, if possible, calm - rather than rushing into a noisy and combative leadership contest that produces much heat but little illumination.

We will know one way or another in the coming hours. As the shock wears off. As the exhaustions kicks in all over again. As the reality sinks in. But never forget this moment. How you felt now after this appalling night at the polls. It will remind you next time complacency kicks in – and it may drive the party to what comes next.

With my best on the difficult morning

Yes, I read that and thought it was measured and wise. But I don't think we're going to see that happening, do you? The various factions should try to come together and, between them, try to thrash out a mutually acceptable way forward (in so far as is possible). But all we seem to get is a "told you you were wrong - gotcha" gloating type of thing. Wounds aren't allowed to heal a bit, no respect for grief, if that's the right word (and I think it is). Surely there's some room for decency in politics? Or have we just seen it fleetingly, only for it to melt away?

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I don't know what else to say. It's just about as bad as it can be. Unbelievable.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:36 am

The Independent ‏@Independent · 4 mins4 minutes ago
Sports Direct share price up 4 per cent after zero-hours relief on Conservative win http://ind.pn/1F9tKll

This is the country we are

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:36 am

Andrew Hawkins, Comres, on their polling.

http://comresupdates.eu.com/DCJ-3DOXX-0 ... D8/cr.aspx

Ends with:

Some commentators have been very quick to put the boot into pollsters for calling it wrong. The truth is that pollsters, when they stick to their knitting, measure vote share. We do indeed, together with academics and the media, need to look at how that vote share translates into House of Commons seats – that is certainly true. But there is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Most of the polls from most of the pollsters were within the margin of error. How they are interpreted and reported needs to be a matter of collective consideration.

Yep, nowt to do with us, it is everybody else reading it wrong.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:36 am

@citizenJA

Thank you. It's pretty awful, isn't it?

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:36 am

Right. I'm off out for the day to do some very heavy pondering. I may do a long post later. Whilst I'm gone remember not to feed the trolls. It never helps.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:37 am

pk1 wrote:Clegg has resigned

Having destroyed his party taking it to the right.

I guess Laws - as a co-author of the Orange Book - losing his seat is some kind of justice.

I shudder to think what the DfE will look like - full on Tory with even more big finance and academy sponsors in it. Policy Exchange have won.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:37 am

pk1 wrote:Clegg has resigned

14 hours ago I would have thought that meant we were in wonderland.

Now I almost miss him, in spite of simultaneously blaming him for being a stupid, deluded charlatan with all the political nous of toejam.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:38 am

What I think I am going to mourn - yes that's the right word I think - is the loss of so many ardent and good MPs - such as Dame Ann Begg, Sheila Gilmore and many many others - who really knew the iniquities of the welfare reforms and other punitive measures across the range of departments - and the loss of their skills built up over years in trying to help those badly affected by them.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:39 am

I haven't studied it yet, but Ashcroft has released his post-vote poll details:

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content ... mmary1.pdf

Some of the answers we seek might be found in the charts he as posted.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:40 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote: They told an awful lot of lies.

The one good thing is that they can't say that they're clearing up anyone's mess other than their own.
It's clear these Tories can say whatever the hell they like. Anything & everything. The mess will always be someone else's fault. And I guess a lot of people will believe it.

Do not assume they all believe it - we do not know why they voted Tory yet

The voting patterns look odd and suggest there was a 'Fear Factor' in there which led to a vote for the status quo

I still think this support is very soft and if they continue on the road the plan - which they surely will they may seen things turning against them fairly rapidly such as what happened in 92

Then you will see sparks fly

I know I am being very optimistic in my posts but I think we have to try to be and also look at the opponent's weak spots

The biggest weak spot is Cameron himself and his arrogance......I think he will t see himself as unstoppable. Also his lieutenants will start jockeying to replace him in around 2018 and they will want to win in 2020.

How can they maintain discipline with a EU referendum and a leadership contest going on?

Thank you, thank you for your posts here, people. I'm reading your posts while still trying to take in this most unexpected result I've found out a couple of hours ago. Please excuse me. I couldn't keep the avatar I had it hurts that bad. I couldn't see it without tears. He's a fine man. I'm not thinking too clearly, there's too much sorrow. Thank you for responding to me. I just can't look at other media right now.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:40 am

AngryAsWell wrote:Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft · 34 mins34 minutes ago
Ok let's now get on immediately with constituency boundary changes and reducing MPs from 650 to 600.

They don't want to wait until the day is even out, before they're talking of securing themselves power in perpetuity. No shame!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:40 am

F*** Clegg - the LibDems obediently reciting Tory talking points for the last 5 years is an important reason why this has happened.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:41 am

NonOxCol wrote:
pk1 wrote:Clegg has resigned
14 hours ago I would have thought that meant we were in wonderland.

Now I almost miss him, in spite of simultaneously blaming him for being a stupid, deluded charlatan with all the political nous of toejam.

I know. He has just said that liberalism isn't doing well across the world but the politics of fear are winning every time.

I agree 100% with that.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:41 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:What I think I am going to mourn - yes that's the right word I think - is the loss of so many ardent and good MPs - such as Dame Ann Begg, Sheila Gilmore and many many others - who really knew the iniquities of the welfare reforms and other punitive measures across the range of departments - and the loss of their skills built up over years in trying to help those badly affected by them.

Yes.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:42 am

Clegg resigns and cites "friends and colleagues" who lost due to forces beyond their control.

Bollocks, they had control but failed to use it. Too enamoured with power, intoxicated by it, patted on the head by Tories, thrown scraps from the table. The differentiation wasn't enough, they are finished for a considerable time, Labour at least have a strong base, them, nothing.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:43 am

Has Tom Brake kept his seat ?

He has, unbelievably, just said that Clegg was right to take them into coalition !

Just checked & yes he held on so I'm guessing he will side with the Cons for the next 5 years.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:43 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:The left are well-meaning but not always very smart. A cross-party strategy to ensure we collectively kicked the Tories out would have given us a good chance to use our collective resources most efficiently to win the starting point we needed to then negotiate on other stuff. Instead what we have will put us back decades. But the answer is not to blame each other for it and divide ourselves further. It is to learn very very quickly from these mistakes, recognise the real enemy and start fighting it off. Let's call ourselves, for example, allies.

You just really want more 'thanks' don't you?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:43 am

daydreamer wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft · 34 mins34 minutes ago
Ok let's now get on immediately with constituency boundary changes and reducing MPs from 650 to 600.
They don't want to wait until the day is even out, before they're talking of securing themselves power in perpetuity. No shame!

I'm frightened of these people. Who voted for them. Please don't get angry with me for asking that repeatedly. I just can't understand this. Something isn't right.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:43 am

pk1 wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
pk1 wrote:Clegg has resigned
14 hours ago I would have thought that meant we were in wonderland.

Now I almost miss him, in spite of simultaneously blaming him for being a stupid, deluded charlatan with all the political nous of toejam.
I know. He has just said that liberalism isn't doing well across the world but the politics of fear are winning every time.

I agree 100% with that.

Again, he duly parroted the Crosby "SCARY SCOTS" meme during the campaign. Forgive me if I am unimpressed in his dissing the "politics of fear" now

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:44 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:What I think I am going to mourn - yes that's the right word I think - is the loss of so many ardent and good MPs - such as Dame Ann Begg, Sheila Gilmore and many many others - who really knew the iniquities of the welfare reforms and other punitive measures across the range of departments - and the loss of their skills built up over years in trying to help those badly affected by them.

Oh damn

In the flurries of votes coming in I'd missed noticing how many very very good people we've lost. Is there an opportunity for them to be ennobled, does anyone think?

Her Majesty The Queen has arrived at the Palace and the Royal Standard has just been raised to signal that she is in residence. Preparing herself to 'welcome' Cameron...

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:44 am

Bless Rusty, that the best you can manage. Do fuck off please, your billy goat is getting cold.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:45 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Do we have a time for Ed's statement yet? I want to go out to get bread

Not yet but maybe if you're quick ?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:45 am

pk1 wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
pk1 wrote:Clegg has resigned
14 hours ago I would have thought that meant we were in wonderland.

Now I almost miss him, in spite of simultaneously blaming him for being a stupid, deluded charlatan with all the political nous of toejam.
I know. He has just said that liberalism isn't doing well across the world but the politics of fear are winning every time.

I agree 100% with that.

I miss him only because, within an hour of them securing a majority, I've already seen the bastards promising us the snoopers' charter and discussing boundary changes. Gawd almighty, he may not have stood for much in his squalid term of office, but I think he might have tried to stop those.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:46 am

The LibDems propped up an appalling government. People voted for the same appalling government but without the LibDems this time. There's gratitude for you, Nick Clegg. You could have pulled the plug at any time and, in so doing, you might have done yourself and your Party some good. You should have seen this coming. Now piss off.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:46 am

yahyah wrote:Am too upset now, going off for a bath and to freshen up.

But if anyone here is closer to the Labour HQ than they let on...please tell Ed there's a woman in Wales who thanks him from the bottom of her heart.

He's shown courage, and remarkable resilience.
He was the sort of man this country needs.

Agree 100% Yahyah, but much of the country have spat in his face.

Also, there's a woman in Barnsley who wants to thank him too, and to wish him all the best.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:47 am

I blame no one for this result but those people who've (apparently) returned a Tory government.
Those people who've voted Tory, I hold them accountable for this result.
No one else.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:47 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Do we have a time for Ed's statement yet? I want to go out to get bread

Noon, I think. Cameron due at Buck House at 12.30.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:48 am

Clegg leaves the room, according to Steve Richards with tears streaming down his face.

There will be a lot of that in the next five years, from people who aren't so well insulated as Clegg.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:48 am

Anyway, that's me boycotting all newspapers (online sites as well) and news channels for the forseeable future.

They have also helped bring this disaster about - whatever happened to "speaking truth to power"?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:49 am

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Clegg resigns and cites "friends and colleagues" who lost due to forces beyond their control.

Bollocks, they had control but failed to use it. Too enamoured with power, intoxicated by it, patted on the head by Tories, thrown scraps from the table. The differentiation wasn't enough, they are finished for a considerable time, Labour at least have a strong base, them, nothing.

Thanks. Should have left it to you to say.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:50 am

RobertSnozers wrote:So if Ed does go.

Do I want to be one of those people who doesn't support the main opposition to the Tories because its leader doesn't entirely fit my politics?

It feels like bloody groundhog day.

No, as that would just be cutting off our noses to spite our face.

But, for me, it depends which way Labour goes now. If there's a right wing shift, then what's the point? Yes, maybe we get some support from the MSM and get back in to power eventually, but for what? To continue with Thatcherism? This country so needs to be rid of that.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:51 am

daydreamer wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:The left are well-meaning but not always very smart. A cross-party strategy to ensure we collectively kicked the Tories out would have given us a good chance to use our collective resources most efficiently to win the starting point we needed to then negotiate on other stuff. Instead what we have will put us back decades. But the answer is not to blame each other for it and divide ourselves further. It is to learn very very quickly from these mistakes, recognise the real enemy and start fighting it off. Let's call ourselves, for example, allies.
You just really want more 'thanks' don't you?

sorry about that!

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:52 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Ed Miliband and Harry Leslie Smith. Thank you both for your valiant efforts. I'm only sorry that we, the electorate, did not give you the outcome you deserved.

Love you, TC

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:53 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
pk1 wrote:Clegg has resigned
Having destroyed his party taking it to the right.

I guess Laws - as a co-author of the Orange Book - losing his seat is some kind of justice.

I shudder to think what the DfE will look like - full on Tory with even more big finance and academy sponsors in it. Policy Exchange have won.

God have mercy. Please don't get angry with me for calling out to god. I'm just that heartsick.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:54 am

I was 19 in 1992: it was my first vote. I was a student, and therefore insulated from some of the despair.

Can someone who was a bit older tell me just how much worse this is, in rough percentage terms? Because it's off my personal calibration scale.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:54 am

daydreamer wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:So if Ed does go.

Do I want to be one of those people who doesn't support the main opposition to the Tories because its leader doesn't entirely fit my politics?

It feels like bloody groundhog day.
No, as that would just be cutting off our noses to spite our face.

But, for me, it depends which way Labour goes now. If there's a right wing shift, then what's the point? Yes, maybe we get some support from the MSM and get back in to power eventually, but for what? To continue with Thatcherism? This country so needs to be rid of that.

All this awfulness and no thanks button. (I fully appreciate and agree with the reason for why that is the case. I'm just very, very unhappy today.)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:54 am

daydreamer wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:So if Ed does go.

Do I want to be one of those people who doesn't support the main opposition to the Tories because its leader doesn't entirely fit my politics?

It feels like bloody groundhog day.
No, as that would just be cutting off our noses to spite our face.

But, for me, it depends which way Labour goes now. If there's a right wing shift, then what's the point? Yes, maybe we get some support from the MSM and get back in to power eventually, but for what? To continue with Thatcherism? This country so needs to be rid of that.

I know. I don't get this! People, is this what you (the country the UK) really wanted? Is it?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:55 am

PorFavor wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:So if Ed does go.

Do I want to be one of those people who doesn't support the main opposition to the Tories because its leader doesn't entirely fit my politics?

It feels like bloody groundhog day.
No, as that would just be cutting off our noses to spite our face.

But, for me, it depends which way Labour goes now. If there's a right wing shift, then what's the point? Yes, maybe we get some support from the MSM and get back in to power eventually, but for what? To continue with Thatcherism? This country so needs to be rid of that.

All this awfulness and no thanks button. (I fully appreciate and agree with the reason for why that is the case. I'm just very, very unhappy today.)

You & I both.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 11:57 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:So if Ed does go.

Do I want to be one of those people who doesn't support the main opposition to the Tories because its leader doesn't entirely fit my politics?

It feels like bloody groundhog day.
But if Labour returns to Blairism as a result of this, a lot of people *will* leave - thus entrenching Tory dominance for even longer.

I don't think this will happen, mind, for the simple reason that there is almost no desire within the party for it. And our disdain for the MSM is now so intense that their backing would be a hindrance for any candidate, rather than help. That's how I see it anyway......

I hope you're right, AK

minch · Post by **minch** » Fri 08 May, 2015 12:00 pm

Just a thought. I think it is easy to misread things. e.g. LD go down, UKIP goes up therefore LD voters have switched. Things are probably much more complicated and voters from all parties have changed leaving a net effect. There was a little piece early on (on BBC) about (I think) YouGov polling into how people changed their votes. Perhaps this needs to be looked into more before blame is allocated.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 12:00 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:So if Ed does go.

Do I want to be one of those people who doesn't support the main opposition to the Tories because its leader doesn't entirely fit my politics?

It feels like bloody groundhog day.
But if Labour returns to Blairism as a result of this, a lot of people *will* leave - thus entrenching Tory dominance for even longer.

I don't think this will happen, mind, for the simple reason that there is almost no desire within the party for it. And our disdain for the MSM is now so intense that their backing would be a hindrance for any candidate, rather than help. That's now I see it anyway......
I'm going to have to rejoin so I can have some influence

IMHO, I think this is what we have to do. Re-claim the party back.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Fri 08 May, 2015 12:01 pm

NonOxCol wrote:I was 19 in 1992: it was my first vote. I was a student, and therefore insulated from some of the despair.

Can someone who was a bit older tell me just how much worse this is, in rough percentage terms? Because it's off my personal calibration scale.

I'm a few years older than you, '87 was my first vote, vaguely remember it, that wasn't too bad, '92 was raw, probably cos there was a sense of optimism. This is equally bad, not that I expected a majority, it's bad because Cameron is so weak, and we still couldn't lay a dab on him. Other events may well do though.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 08 May, 2015 12:01 pm

NonOxCol wrote:I was 19 in 1992: it was my first vote. I was a student, and therefore insulated from some of the despair.

Can someone who was a bit older tell me just how much worse this is, in rough percentage terms? Because it's off my personal calibration scale.

I lived in California & Bill Clinton was voted into office in 1992. The world was sunshine. Anyone wanting paid employment got it. And access to greater University grants, scholarships & childcare.

edited to add
What's currently happening now is off the scale.
We're in some pretty shit.
I'm sorry, I can't say it better.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 08 May, 2015 12:04 pm

@OwenJones84
Don't mourn. Organise. And this time, let's actually mean it.

Ok Owen but let's hear your support loud & proud throughout the next 5 years.