Friday 8th May 2015

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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:I was 19 in 1992: it was my first vote. I was a student, and therefore insulated from some of the despair.

Can someone who was a bit older tell me just how much worse this is, in rough percentage terms? Because it's off my personal calibration scale.

I'm a few years older than you, '87 was my first vote, vaguely remember it, that wasn't too bad, '92 was raw, probably cos there was a sense of optimism. This is equally bad, not that I expected a majority, it's bad because Cameron is so weak, and we still couldn't lay a dab on him. Other events may well do though.
(my bold)
I know.
What the fuck.
PorFavor
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

pk1 wrote:@OwenJones84
Don't mourn. Organise. And this time, let's actually mean it.

Ok Owen but let's hear your support loud & proud throughout the next 5 years.
Exactly.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

minch wrote:Just a thought. I think it is easy to misread things. e.g. LD go down, UKIP goes up therefore LD voters have switched. Things are probably much more complicated and voters from all parties have changed leaving a net effect. There was a little piece early on (on BBC) about (I think) YouGov polling into how people changed their votes. Perhaps this needs to be looked into more before blame is allocated.
Yes - I think it's more complex than a straight shift like that - I believe it's what they were calling 'churn' last night - people switching around between parties and the net effects end up looking like that. With the Lib Dem collapse though - the 'what is the point of the Lib Dems' was made completely manifest by the voters.

We have to acknowledge that the right have managed to consolidate rather than split their support however nasty the tactics were (and they were) ... I wish the left could work out how to do similar based on hope and aspiration and involvement for the younger generations.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

pk1 wrote:@OwenJones84
Don't mourn. Organise. And this time, let's actually mean it.

Ok Owen but let's hear your support loud & proud throughout the next 5 years.
Exactly.
Jesus, I'm scared for people!
Five fucking years?
pk1
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by pk1 »

minch wrote:Just a thought. I think it is easy to misread things. e.g. LD go down, UKIP goes up therefore LD voters have switched. Things are probably much more complicated and voters from all parties have changed leaving a net effect. There was a little piece early on (on BBC) about (I think) YouGov polling into how people changed their votes. Perhaps this needs to be looked into more before blame is allocated.
tbh, I don't see the point in blaming anybody. It serves no purpose. What we need to do is regroup, re-organise, re-energise & get out there, selling our party to the country.

We need to start now instead of leaving it too late, as in 2015.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

pk1 wrote:@OwenJones84
Don't mourn. Organise. And this time, let's actually mean it.

Ok Owen but let's hear your support loud & proud throughout the next 5 years.
Yes.
Have just rejoined the party.
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daydreamer
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by daydreamer »

ephemerid wrote:I've been trying to catch up on some kip, but I've been crying instead.

Ed is a decent man, and he may choose to resign, but the party should refuse to accept his resignation.
Whether he decides to fall on his sword or they make him go, it would be wrong.
For me, he represents the nearest thing in Labour's upper echelons to a proper socialist.
Without him at the helm, I have no business being a member of the party.

I feel that the public, the people who have chosen to ignore what the coalition has done, are to blame.
5 years ago, they delivered a hung Parliament because they didn't trust any party to govern alone.
Back then they had no idea what the new crop of Tories were capable of.
Cameron finagled his way into power and now the public DO know what to expect.

That's what has upset me so much - they are either so stupid that they believe the crap Cameron spouts and the things they are fed by the mainstream media, or they are so selfish that they choose to ignore the dreadful things that have been done in their name.

Life is about to get a lot worse for the sick, disabled, unemployed, working poor; it will be harder still for the homeless, abused, accused, prisoners; there will be a nasty vicious mendacious administration that will take every penny and every right from the vulnerable.

When there is no more to take from the poorest, they will come for the next - we will pay for help to buy, for stoking up the housing bubble, for business to get work done for free, for private companies to profit from our NHS, our schools, our court and prisons.

There will be more austerity and the people will believe that it's necessary and sit and watch while more kids go hungry and more people get socially cleansed from the better areas; there will be more deaths and suicides and there will be no asylum for the abused or the sick.

At some point people will wake up - when their elderly are badly cared for because nothing has been done to help them, when their homes are repossessed because the interest on their loans goes up, when their jobs go and are replaced by workfare, when they can't get justice because they cannot afford to pay, when their kids can't go to uni because the fees are beyond reach, when there is no NHS to sort out the cock-ups of the private providers who will inevitably botch routine surgery - and by then it will be too late because all the services they have taken for granted for so long will not be there any more, and they will be paying more for worse and be left wondering how it happened to them.

Are they all asleep? Or are they thick? Maybe they are just utterly selfish. Whatever, they are responsible for what happens next.
And the people who will pay for that first will be people who have no hope as it is; and they, those voters, will be responsible.

I am so angry it's coming out almost like grief. I am losing my country to forces that are intent on dividing us for their own enrichment, and it makes me sick to my stomach.

Sorry,
Don't be sorry. You're making me cry again. :hug:
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by minch »

Perhaps it was DH saying he would vote for Labour that did for us.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by pk1 »

LOOK >>>

David Roberts ‏@dairoberts 1h1 hour ago
@OwenJones84 First thing this morning, I joined Labour. We all need to stand up and be heard more than one vote every 5 years.


:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

minch wrote:Perhaps it was DH saying he would vote for Labour that did for us.

Ha!
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by pk1 »

minch wrote:Perhaps it was DH saying he would vote for Labour that did for us.

:lol: :lol:
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

citizenJA wrote:
pk1 wrote:@OwenJones84
Don't mourn. Organise. And this time, let's actually mean it.

Ok Owen but let's hear your support loud & proud throughout the next 5 years.
Exactly.
Jesus, I'm scared for people!
Five fucking years?
Well, the thing is that there's loads of nasty little issues that they've been pretending aren't there that they now have to sort out - Universal Credit, NHS, immigration, the inquiry into historic child sex abuse...and Nicky Morgan has one that she put off and wishes would go away - a grammar school extension.

That reminds me...given that she's won her seat, Gove isn't going back to the DfE surely? that would be an almighty slap in the face if he did.
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letsskiptotheleft
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

As I have said, I live virtually next door to a polling station. Yesterday appeared very busy, I saw lots of youngsters turning up to vote and a thought crossed my mind that I may not be totally good for Labour.

These were people who may never have been in a union, never have had a chance of joining a pension scheme with their work, in sum, never had the perks their parents or grandparent have had, maybe UKIP then appeal, with their point the finger and blame approach?

Labour losing the Gower and failing to win Cardiff North has hurt, Gower for it's location and beauty, pricey houses has been Labour since the early 19th century, Huw Irrancca Davies, a son of local tin plant workers who made it to Oxford held it for decades. Gutted.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by daydreamer »

mbc1955 wrote:Just at the moment, I can't help giving in to total despair. Last night I watched the country I've lived in for almost sixty years turn into an alien land. This morning I've woken up to realise that I myself am the alien. And it's bloody dark.
Thanks, same here, alien that is. :hug:
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by LadyCentauria »

Just had today's 2nd Post delivered (Royal Mail, earlier was Whistl) which contained my new Labour Party Membership Card, as it's annual renewal time for me.

I will be carrying it proudly in my wallet. I will be continuing to pay my subs by Direct Debit. If Ed resigns today I will be taking part in the entire process to elect a successor. I will be campaigning to keep the party proudly left-wing and Socialist. I will be supporting my local party. I will be campaigning for us to retain the Councillors we have, and increase their number, on Wandsworth Borough Council*. And I will be working to make sure that, in 2020, we do return a left-wing Socialist Labour Government to these shores.

*unless I get forced out by the bloody Under-Occupancy Penalty, in which I shall do all these things from wherever I am permitted to live – which, of course, will probably still cost the towel-refolder's department more money but economics was never his strong point – or unless I win the National Lottery, in which case I shall do all these things from where I next choose to live.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:As I have said, I live virtually next door to a polling station. Yesterday appeared very busy, I saw lots of youngsters turning up to vote and a thought crossed my mind that I may not be totally good for Labour.

These were people who may never have been in a union, never have had a chance of joining a pension scheme with their work, in sum, never had the perks their parents or grandparent have had, maybe UKIP then appeal, with their point the finger and blame approach?

Labour losing the Gower and failing to win Cardiff North has hurt, Gower for it's location and beauty, pricey houses has been Labour since the early 19th century, Huw Irrancca Davies, a son of local tin plant workers who made it to Oxford held it for decades. Gutted.
Irranca Davies is Ogmore, isn't he?
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by LadyCentauria »

Ed Miliband on now.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

Yes he is, his uncle held Gower for decades.

Lady, my membership has just plopped through the letterbox too.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anyway, that's me boycotting all newspapers (online sites as well) and news channels for the forseeable future.

They have also helped bring this disaster about - whatever happened to "speaking truth to power"?
Good point. Excellent point, in fact. I'm with you.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:As I have said, I live virtually next door to a polling station. Yesterday appeared very busy, I saw lots of youngsters turning up to vote and a thought crossed my mind that I may not be totally good for Labour.

These were people who may never have been in a union, never have had a chance of joining a pension scheme with their work, in sum, never had the perks their parents or grandparent have had, maybe UKIP then appeal, with their point the finger and blame approach?

Labour losing the Gower and failing to win Cardiff North has hurt, Gower for it's location and beauty, pricey houses has been Labour since the early 19th century, Huw Irrancca Davies, a son of local tin plant workers who made it to Oxford held it for decades. Gutted.
Irranca Davies is Ogmore, isn't he?
Yes - he's back in thank goodness.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

Sorry, made a cock up of post, I'm fucked, Irrancca Davies uncle held Gower for years..
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

daydreamer wrote:
mbc1955 wrote:Just at the moment, I can't help giving in to total despair. Last night I watched the country I've lived in for almost sixty years turn into an alien land. This morning I've woken up to realise that I myself am the alien. And it's bloody dark.
Thanks, same here, alien that is. :hug:
Exactly this.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by pk1 »

Ed has resigned so the party can have an open & honest debate without constraint.

Harman to take over in the interim.
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daydreamer
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by daydreamer »

RobertSnozers wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:By 2020 you will have to be 63 years old to have voted for a Labour leader who won, who wasn't Tony Blair.

We need to win. Criticising the electorate or the press is pointless.
As is selling our souls.
Well said, Robert. Have some thanks.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

RogerOThornhill wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
pk1 wrote:@OwenJones84
Don't mourn. Organise. And this time, let's actually mean it.

Ok Owen but let's hear your support loud & proud throughout the next 5 years.
Exactly.
Jesus, I'm scared for people!
Five fucking years?
Well, the thing is that there's loads of nasty little issues that they've been pretending aren't there that they now have to sort out - Universal Credit, NHS, immigration, the inquiry into historic child sex abuse...and Nicky Morgan has one that she put off and wishes would go away - a grammar school extension.

That reminds me...given that she's won her seat, Gove isn't going back to the DfE surely? that would be an almighty slap in the face if he did.
That is a good point. Those nasty issues Tories will have to deal with in some fashion.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

sorry, but we need miliband
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

pk1 wrote:Ed has resigned so the party can have an open & honest debate without constraint.
This is like a bad dream.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

tinyclanger2 wrote:sorry, but we need miliband
I'm sick inside. I agree with you.
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daydreamer
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by daydreamer »

StephenDolan wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Have the Tories stolen this election? Have they cheated?
The public gets what the public wants. A lot are uninformed and are happy being that way.

The mess we inherited was never properly dismantled.
No, because Labour was captured and neutered by the Blairites and their getting into bed with Murdock etc, despite Sure Start and the rest. They didn't do enough to challenge and dismantle what had gone before.

That's why Thatcher said herself that her greatest legacy was New Labour, or words to that effect.
Last edited by daydreamer on Fri 08 May, 2015 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

"change happens because people don't give up"

Ed Miliband
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
PorFavor
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

Not by any means a fan of Hot Chocolate or, indeed, Errol Brown (who died the other day), but this song is, I think, fitting. Although it's always made me a bit tearful which isn't particularly helpful, I'll grant you.

I think it's from a musical called "Dear Anyone" and, since I'm flailing around at present, it fits the bill. Sorry if it has the same effect on others as it does on me - if anyone listens to it. I'm feeling maudlin.

Altogether now - and wallow . . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DjiDuLhHpA





Edited to add a comma
Last edited by PorFavor on Fri 08 May, 2015 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
letsskiptotheleft
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

I hope this honest and open debate doesn't take 6 months.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by LadyCentauria »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Yes he is, his uncle held Gower for decades.

Lady, my membership has just plopped through the letterbox too.
We'll skip along as proud-lefties together then, shall we, membership-twin? :hug:
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:I hope this honest and open debate doesn't take 6 months.
Completely agree with that - this election was partly lost already even before Ed was elected :wall:
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

My youngest has just told me how devastated he is. He cannot bear another five years of my froth and spittle.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Clegg leaves the room, according to Steve Richards with tears streaming down his face.


There will be a lot of that in the next five years, from people who aren't so well insulated as Clegg.
Yep.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

And the teflon-coated Bullingdon scum coast back into power.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

utopiandreams wrote:My youngest has just told me how devastated he is. He cannot bear another five years of my froth and spittle.
I'm sorry. God, this hurts.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

RobertSnozers wrote:Now listening to the arsehole pundits on the BBC slagging off Ed's speech. Lovely.
Don't watch it, then - part of me hopes that the Tories now privatise them; all that appeasement for nothing, you cowardly ****s :toss:
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by pk1 »

Conor Pope ‏@Conorpope 2m2 minutes ago
That was a very poor resignation from Miliband.

WTF ???
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:I hope this honest and open debate doesn't take 6 months.
Completely agree with that - this election was partly lost already even before Ed was elected :wall:
I agree. It allowed the Tories to set the narrative. We need a new leader in six weeks or less. If we can fight a general election in that time we can elect a new leader. If Labour doesn't get it done quickly this time they might as well concede 2020 as well.
Totally agree.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by daydreamer »

RobertSnozers wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Warning! Do NOT go on UKPR. Can't find anything but gloating Tory boys. Bastards!
And no doubt people who knew all along that a majority was on the cards
I still can't believe we've given them a majority! FFS!
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

LadyCentauria wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Yes he is, his uncle held Gower for decades.

Lady, my membership has just plopped through the letterbox too.
We'll skip along as proud-lefties together then, shall we, membership-twin? :hug:
I'm with you. Please excuse me for a bit, I'm currently devastated. I'm still a Labour party member, will do everything I can to hold society together. But I'm currently beside myself. I didn't feel this bad when my dad died. Jesus it hurts it hurts.
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

daydreamer wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Warning! Do NOT go on UKPR. Can't find anything but gloating Tory boys. Bastards!
And no doubt people who knew all along that a majority was on the cards
I still can't believe we've given them a majority! FFS!
No kidding. What the hell is going on.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by Tonibel »

Just watched Eds resignation speech and I'm in tears again
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by AngryAsWell »

The IndependentVerified account
‏@Independent Charlotte Church 'loses faith in humanity' following Conservative win http://ind.pn/1cunvvV
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

RobertSnozers wrote:That's it then. Just off to get some bread and a revolver
Whatever it is you're planning DON'T DO IT.
Unless it's making some toast.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

For Robert:
graun wrote:Most pundits are in agreement that Miliband’s swansong was dignified and classy, in the face of such a devastating rejection by the country.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

tinyclanger2 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:That's it then. Just off to get some bread and a revolver
Whatever it is you're planning DON'T DO IT.
Unless it's making some toast.
Ha!
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citizenJA
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:@citizenJA

Thank you. It's pretty awful, isn't it?
I've finally found this message for me, PorFavor. It's about as awful as it can be. I'm sorry.
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