Even the exit poll wasn't that good - it said 316 and it looks like 329. Quite a % error.citizenJA wrote:I'd advise anyone with a polling company to pack it in & find something else to do.
Friday 8th May 2015
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
- LadyCentauria
- Speaker of the House
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- Location: Set within 3,500 acres of leafy public land in SW London
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Is lowering the voting age another thing that wo'n't go ahead under Cameron?
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
- rebeccariots2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 14038
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
TBH - whilst I thought the overall ground tactics were pretty good - the 4 million conversations etc. Not much else that came from the central machine to me as member working out in the constituency was that well targeted or supportive. The best material, message and support came from our very good - exceedingly good - candidate and others working locally. I will try to find the time and right words to send him a supportive message later today. I am heartened to see quite a lot of very good messages for him on the local newspapers Facebook comment board under the election results.daydreamer wrote:I know, it's going to be bloody difficult.rebeccariots2 wrote:How though? Mr Riots and I have just had a small chat about the lack of political consciousness in the UK - following a large hug to get us to the point where we could even speak about the state of our country.daydreamer wrote: Which seems to be the case most elections, and it's one of the things we need to address.
It certainly won't be enough to work very hard - as a lot of us did - on doorsteps for months in advance of the next election. The engagement of younger people and all the other groups who will be profoundly affected by the rightwing march of politics and society has to be started right now and in a meaningful and rewarding way for those getting involved in it. By rewarding I don't mean monetary gain or other mainly self interested incentives ... I mean in a way that makes it intrinsically good to be a part of.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
So more powers to Scotland and EVEL asap. Sturgeon and Cameron must be very pleased.
- AngryAsWell
- Prime Minister
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- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Exactly - I really don't understandAnatolyKasparov wrote:The real point is that turnout was only about 1% up on 2010 despite all the anecdotal reports, which also matched my own impressionsdaydreamer wrote:Yeah, but they must all have been voting Tory and UKIP.AngryAsWell wrote:66% turn out? I don't understand
The polling booths have never been busier, had to queue at ours (unheard of in the 25 years I've lived here) and not far from us they had to bring in an extra booths to cope. A look at yesterdays AS blog shows the same queuing all over the country.
- daydreamer
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
FFSLadyCentauria wrote:Shapps says fewer, more-equal-sized, constituencies has already been voted for so they can just press straight on with introducing it
Smart has the plans, but stupid has the stories.
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Thinking of Ernst - that Bury North outcome was horribly close. Wishing you well Ernst if you are looking in here.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
The advantages the Labour opposition had are enormous. They include
(i) The collapse off the Liberal Democrats.
Soon after the 2010 General Election, the Liberal Democrat vote more than halved. In 2010 the Liberal Democrats received 23% of the vote. In 2015 only 8% .The proximate cause of this change was the reneging on the promise not to raise tuition fees. These votes, at least initially, seemed to go to Labour, which received an immediate poll boost.
This alone, should have been enough to give Labour victory.
(ii) The rise of Ukip.
In the 2010 General Election Ukip received 3% of the vote. In 2015 11%. Now, some of these voters were drawn from Labour, or non-voters, but a plurality came from the Conservative party.
This alone should have been enough to give Labour victory.
(iii) Austerity and Incompetence
In 2010 Mervyn King warned that "whoever wins this election will be out of power for a whole generation because of how tough the fiscal austerity will have to be".
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ion-victor
In other European countries this has proven so. Whatever one thinks of the policy on austerity, its unpopularity was bound to hit the parties of government.
This has been exacerbated by several instances of government incompetence. The Health and Social Care Act as a largely pointless and unpopular reform, appearing to give a lie to the promise of 'no top down reorganisation of the NHS." (Claiming that it was in fact bottom up was a subtlety lost on most.) Ian Duncan Smith was, as we all know, the worst and most incompetent minister in living memory.
Outside of Scotland, this election was extraordinarily propitious for Labour.
Now, Scotland was something beyond the current leadership's control. They were not responsible for the decades of Labour neglect in Scotland, nor the independence referendum, nor for the surge of feeling that gave rise to on both sides of the border.
But, the major factor in the defeat was the leadership.
The leader elected was an indulgent choice. He was, and remains in my view, the weakest of all the serious candidates. For five years we have had drift. The policy review was a joke. His pivot to the left and abandonment of the positions adopted by the last government were predicated on the 3 factors I listed above giving victory. .
This has proven a terrible mistake.
Now some of the more absolutist amongst you will claim Labour should not sell its soul for power.
This is a bad mistake. It is very hard for a modern government to transform society for the good. Very easy to make things much worse quickly, and inflict horrific misery on the least well off. The Lib Dems may have been Quislings, and have suffered the fate they deserved, but they did operate as a brake.
We are about to find out what a Tory majority government can do.
The first duty of the Labour party is to keep the Tories out. Everything on top is a bonus.
We cannot afford to be as purist and self indulgent as we have been.
(i) The collapse off the Liberal Democrats.
Soon after the 2010 General Election, the Liberal Democrat vote more than halved. In 2010 the Liberal Democrats received 23% of the vote. In 2015 only 8% .The proximate cause of this change was the reneging on the promise not to raise tuition fees. These votes, at least initially, seemed to go to Labour, which received an immediate poll boost.
This alone, should have been enough to give Labour victory.
(ii) The rise of Ukip.
In the 2010 General Election Ukip received 3% of the vote. In 2015 11%. Now, some of these voters were drawn from Labour, or non-voters, but a plurality came from the Conservative party.
This alone should have been enough to give Labour victory.
(iii) Austerity and Incompetence
In 2010 Mervyn King warned that "whoever wins this election will be out of power for a whole generation because of how tough the fiscal austerity will have to be".
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ion-victor
In other European countries this has proven so. Whatever one thinks of the policy on austerity, its unpopularity was bound to hit the parties of government.
This has been exacerbated by several instances of government incompetence. The Health and Social Care Act as a largely pointless and unpopular reform, appearing to give a lie to the promise of 'no top down reorganisation of the NHS." (Claiming that it was in fact bottom up was a subtlety lost on most.) Ian Duncan Smith was, as we all know, the worst and most incompetent minister in living memory.
Outside of Scotland, this election was extraordinarily propitious for Labour.
Now, Scotland was something beyond the current leadership's control. They were not responsible for the decades of Labour neglect in Scotland, nor the independence referendum, nor for the surge of feeling that gave rise to on both sides of the border.
But, the major factor in the defeat was the leadership.
The leader elected was an indulgent choice. He was, and remains in my view, the weakest of all the serious candidates. For five years we have had drift. The policy review was a joke. His pivot to the left and abandonment of the positions adopted by the last government were predicated on the 3 factors I listed above giving victory. .
This has proven a terrible mistake.
Now some of the more absolutist amongst you will claim Labour should not sell its soul for power.
This is a bad mistake. It is very hard for a modern government to transform society for the good. Very easy to make things much worse quickly, and inflict horrific misery on the least well off. The Lib Dems may have been Quislings, and have suffered the fate they deserved, but they did operate as a brake.
We are about to find out what a Tory majority government can do.
The first duty of the Labour party is to keep the Tories out. Everything on top is a bonus.
We cannot afford to be as purist and self indulgent as we have been.
Last edited by SpinningHugo on Fri 08 May, 2015 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
I'm not feeling any better. In fact, in the cold light of day, everything seems much worse. Another quick burst of "I'll Put You Together Again"? No. Maybe not.
Edited to close quotes.
Edited to close quotes.
- daydreamer
- Minister of State
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Hope your right Willow, but at this moment in time the Bastard as won.Willow904 wrote:Which is exactly what the Murdochs of this world were so scared of.daydreamer wrote:Which is why it's such a tragedy to lose him. Considering all he achieved from opposition, he would have made an excellent PM.Willow904 wrote: So Ed's still p***ing the media off by not doing what they want him to do. Good on him. Ed may have lost in the end, but he had the right-wing press sweating there for a bit and I honestly didn't believe that was possible when he first went up against Murdoch. I thought the press would flatten him but they didn't - he nearly became PM and implemented Leveson. It was a brave try. I just don't go along with people who like the Blair's and Obama's who win, but then don't actually do anything. Ed did more from opposition than Obama's achieved in his 2nd term. It's worth bearing that in mind.
On a brighter note, the Murdochs of this world (otherwise known as Michael Moore's 'Stupid White Men') are getting on in years and the next generation isn't really matching up. I do wonder if the wealthy elite will be able to keep such a tight grip once the patriarchs that built the original empires shuffle off. I can't see their trustafarian children being so committed to world domination - it takes a lot of work!
Smart has the plans, but stupid has the stories.
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Do ordinary Labour party members get a vote on the Leadership elections ?
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
I dont think that will work to be honest, surprisingly I agree with hugo in some respects, although from a different perspective.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Thanks for posting, nice message.Temulkar wrote:I wasnt going to post today, as a labour activist in 87 and 92 I know exactly how you all feel, and really do empathise. However, the green vote increased by 3%, people who generally are natural supporters of the Labour movement. That 3% would have saved Ed Balls amongst others. That's not me gloating just stating a fact.daydreamer wrote: You just really want more 'thanks' don't you?
Many in the green party (myself included) would have welcomed an accord with Labour, and alliance even, but we were driven away. We were insulted, sworn at, belittled and sneered over. I saw Kittyjones among others behaving like the very worst of the cybernats towards greens, indeed anyone on the left who dared to question Labour. In Bristol it was incredibly vicious and dirty. On this very forum, I saw a woman's mental health touted as a reason to ignore her opinion. It wasn't the tory party driving green voters from Labour. I have had so many conversations with people who turned their back on labour because of the abuse from supporters. Even then some of our candidates in marginals told people to vote labour. I dont know if that was noticed on here.
If you want allies on the left then, as I have said many times, you need to offer them something and not simply sneer about splitting the left vote. Labour lost because Labour lost. We figured that out in 92 and elected John Smith and for all his faults the first term Blair. I know it's dark now but it does get better, and this parliament isnt going to last five years - 2 at the most. So lets really work together to get them out.
We did ok last night, although I expect a new speaker soonish, but we have grown immeasuraably, we have constittuency parties accross the UK and a base to really work for the future.
You could also say that the "split the vote" stuff was dead right. The Tories certainly voted Tory where they needed to.
Not sure I would, because lots of the Green stuff is so different to Labour. Something like £200bn of tax rises was in the manifesto. There's always going to be something else Labour isn't doing that a Green will see as a key issue.
Think makes more sense to hammer away roughly where Labour is, with a leader people take to.
In 1910ish my great grandfather split my family when he left the Liberals and joined Labour to set up the local branch. Back then the liberals were very much the party of the working class. The reforms in 1906 made them incredibly popular. Labour was a movement though, it went out into communities and educated, and talked to people. It chose local people to do that, Scots Welsh English, they had to combat voter apathy and engage the electorate. The movement was built and drove the party. That changed in the 70s really, long before Blair. Lodges closed, the movement died; Blair turned it into just another party, and voter apathy set in. 20% of the electorate just stopped voting. And they were labour voters.
I think Labour needs to become a movement again. 35% of the electorate didnt vote, go out there engage them grab them, spend the rest of the decade educating them. All those people who voted kipper, you can win them back (except the bigots and nutjobs) but it really means changing the party, casting away the ideas of the last 30-40-50 years even. It means stop parachuting in people like Kinnock in, however able he might be. It means becoming less London-centric and more working class. You need brickies and white van drivers, st george flag wavers, the gobshites down the pub, people on the dole, people who never dreamed of university as candidates. Get them back and Labour wont lose another election to the tory party again, ever.
I know you all dislike him,(and I cant say Im a fan) but one of the few people left in the party who actually gets that is Danczuk.
- daydreamer
- Minister of State
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Yes, but not that it matters much, as it seems the younger voters don't bother to get out and vote in anything like the numbers needed.LadyCentauria wrote:Is lowering the voting age another thing that wo'n't go ahead under Cameron?
Smart has the plans, but stupid has the stories.
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:15 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
SH the main driver was the failure to address the Labour overspending caused the crash myth early and repelling often. I realise in a partisan media environment that this was hard but that careless and profligate badge stuck.SpinningHugo wrote:The advantages the Labour opposition had are enormous. They include
(i) The collapse off the Liberal Democrats.
Soon after the 2010 General Election, the Liberal Democrat vote more than halved. In 2010 the Liberal Democrats received 23% of the vote. In 2015 only .The proximate cause of this change was the reneging on the promise not to raise tuition fees. These votes, at least initially, seemed to go to Labour, which received an immediate poll boost.
This alone, should have been enough to give Labour victory.
(ii) The rise of Ukip.
In the 2010 General Election Ukip received 3% of the vote. In 2015 . Now, some of these voters were drawn from Labour, or non-voters, but a plurality came from the Conservative party.
This alone should have been enough to give Labour victory.
(iii) Austerity and Incompetence
In 2010 Mervyn King warned that "whoever wins this election will be out of power for a whole generation because of how tough the fiscal austerity will have to be".
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ion-victor
In other European countries this has proven so. Whatever one thinks of the policy on austerity, its unpopularity was bound to hit the parties of government.
This has been exacerbated by several instances of government incompetence. The Health and Social Care Act as a largely pointless and unpopular reform, appearing to give a lie to the promise of 'no top down reorganisation of the NHS." (Claiming that it was in fact bottom up was a subtlety lost on most.) Ian Duncan Smith was, as we all know, the worst and most incompetent minister in living memory.
Outside of Scotland, this election was extraordinarily propitious for Labour.
Now, Scotland was something beyond the current leadership's control. They were not responsible for the decades of Labour neglect in Scotland, nor the independence referendum, nor to the surge of feeling that gave rise to on both sides of the border.
But, the major factor in the defeat was the leadership.
The leader elected was an indulgent choice. He was, and remains in my view, the weakest of all the serious candidates. For five years we have had drift. The policy review was a joke. His pivot to the left and abandonment of the positions adopted by the last government were predicated on the 3 factors I listed above giving victory. .
This has proven a terrible mistake.
Now some of the more absolutist amongst you will claim Labour should not sell its soul for power.
This is a bad mistake. It is very hard for a modern government to transform society for the good. Very easy to make things much worse quickly, and inflict horrific misery on the least well off. The Lib Dems may have been Quislings, and have suffered the fate they deserved, but they did operate as a brake.
We are about to find out what a Tory majority government can do.
The first duty of the Labour party is to keep the Tories out. Everything on top is a bonus.
We cannot afford to be as purist and self indulgent as we have been.
- AngryAsWell
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 5852
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Yespk1 wrote:Do ordinary Labour party members get a vote on the Leadership elections ?
- daydreamer
- Minister of State
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:17 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Thanks. Something else the party needs to work on.rebeccariots2 wrote:TBH - whilst I thought the overall ground tactics were pretty good - the 4 million conversations etc. Not much else that came from the central machine to me as member working out in the constituency was that well targeted or supportive. The best material, message and support came from our very good - exceedingly good - candidate and others working locally. I will try to find the time and right words to send him a supportive message later today. I am heartened to see quite a lot of very good messages for him on the local newspapers Facebook comment board under the election results.daydreamer wrote:I know, it's going to be bloody difficult.rebeccariots2 wrote: How though? Mr Riots and I have just had a small chat about the lack of political consciousness in the UK - following a large hug to get us to the point where we could even speak about the state of our country.
It certainly won't be enough to work very hard - as a lot of us did - on doorsteps for months in advance of the next election. The engagement of younger people and all the other groups who will be profoundly affected by the rightwing march of politics and society has to be started right now and in a meaningful and rewarding way for those getting involved in it. By rewarding I don't mean monetary gain or other mainly self interested incentives ... I mean in a way that makes it intrinsically good to be a part of.
Smart has the plans, but stupid has the stories.
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Yes.pk1 wrote:Do ordinary Labour party members get a vote on the Leadership elections ?
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:15 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Just completed a political YouGov survey. Let the investigation commence.
- daydreamer
- Minister of State
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- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:17 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Yes, wishing you well, Ernst.rebeccariots2 wrote:Thinking of Ernst - that Bury North outcome was horribly close. Wishing you well Ernst if you are looking in here.
Smart has the plans, but stupid has the stories.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
I feel this space is less than safe, emotionally speaking.
As well as the right wing troll posting, a lurker's been around who was very arrogant and offensive to Labour supporting posters in the past.
As well as the right wing troll posting, a lurker's been around who was very arrogant and offensive to Labour supporting posters in the past.
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:15 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Trolls come and go. FTN stays FTN.yahyah wrote:I feel this space is less than safe, emotionally speaking.
As well as the right wing troll posting, a lurker's been around who was very arrogant and offensive to Labour supporting posters in the past.
- LadyCentauria
- Speaker of the House
- Posts: 2437
- Joined: Fri 05 Sep, 2014 10:25 am
- Location: Set within 3,500 acres of leafy public land in SW London
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Con hold Warwick & Leamington.
Now let's hope LibDem Andrew George can retain his St. Ives seat, which is not now due to declare until 4pm – partly due to flying the ballot boxes in from the Isles of Scilly. Unless Labour can, by some miracle, take it from under the noses of the Tories. It's the last seat remaining unfilled.
Now let's hope LibDem Andrew George can retain his St. Ives seat, which is not now due to declare until 4pm – partly due to flying the ballot boxes in from the Isles of Scilly. Unless Labour can, by some miracle, take it from under the noses of the Tories. It's the last seat remaining unfilled.
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
- rebeccariots2
- Prime Minister
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- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Thank you for that Temulkar. I think you've probably given some good advice about what's needed in that post. I do know it resonates with how I became engaged here - because of the candidate not despite him - local roots and focus, passion about jobs and conditions for all in the community, not afraid to say it like it is about difficult stuff, experience of redundancy in his family, looking for solutions rather than merely anti others.Temulkar wrote: I dont think that will work to be honest, surprisingly I agree with hugo in some respects, although from a different perspective.
In 1910ish my great grandfather split my family when he left the Liberals and joined Labour to set up the local branch. Back then the liberals were very much the party of the working class. The reforms in 1906 made them incredibly popular. Labour was a movement though, it went out into communities and educated, and talked to people. It chose local people to do that, Scots Welsh English, they had to combat voter apathy and engage the electorate. The movement was built and drove the party. That changed in the 70s really, long before Blair. Lodges closed, the movement died; Blair turned it into just another party, and voter apathy set in. 20% of the electorate just stopped voting. And they were labour voters.
I think Labour needs to become a movement again. 35% of the electorate didnt vote, go out there engage them grab them, spend the rest of the decade educating them. All those people who voted kipper, you can win them back (except the bigots and nutjobs) but it really means changing the party, casting away the ideas of the last 30-40-50 years even. It means stop parachuting in people like Kinnock in, however able he might be. It means becoming less London-centric and more working class. You need brickies and white van drivers, st george flag wavers, the gobshites down the pub, people on the dole, people who never dreamed of university as candidates. Get them back and Labour wont lose another election to the tory party again, ever.
I know you all dislike him,(and I cant say Im a fan) but one of the few people left in the party who actually gets that is Danczuk.
Working on the wild side.
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Pass the tissues again.This is not the email I wanted to be writing to you today. I am profoundly sorry for the defeat we suffered, and more grateful than I can express for the support that you have shown me, and our party, throughout this campaign.
I take full responsibility for the result of the election, and that’s why it’s absolutely right that I step down as Labour’s leader today.
It has been the utmost privilege to serve this party as your leader, and to spend the last four-and-a-half years fighting for the millions of British families who need and deserve the fairness, compassion and opportunity that only a Labour government can provide.
Yet while defeats are hard, we are a party that will never stop fighting for the working people of this country. Britain needs a strong Labour Party and it is the responsibility of each of us to continue the fight. The stakes are too high to wait for others to lead.
It isn’t simply leaders who achieve change, it is people that make change happen. I will never give up on that idea, I will never give up on our cause and I will never give up on our fight.
Thank you again for everything, and please, keep on fighting too. The course of progress and social justice is never simple or straightforward, and change happens because people like us don’t give up.
Yours,
Ed
- tinyclanger2
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
On the LibDem anihilation and what they were finding on the ground in the last couple of days. So the Tory lies worked and now the guy who sowed those doubts about Scotland is now going to save the union.“People were saying they wanted clarity, a government not beholden to the SNP. That message chimed with people right at the end of the campaign,”
My arse. (If PF will forgive my theft of her phraseology.)
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
And the responsibility for that primarily lies with?StephenDolan wrote:
SH the main driver was the failure to address the Labour overspending caused the crash myth early and repelling often. I realise in a partisan media environment that this was hard but that careless and profligate badge stuck.
Re-read
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... hip-speech
Right from the get go, addressing that was central to what he wanted to do. it should have been remorseless.
It was a failure of leadership.
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Joe Murphy is the political editor of the London Evening Standard:
@JoeMurphyLondon 2m2 minutes ago
To the SNP cybernats who hurled so much abuse, well done on getting @David_Cameron elected. You & @NicolaSturgeon won it for the Tories
@JoeMurphyLondon 2m2 minutes ago
To the SNP cybernats who hurled so much abuse, well done on getting @David_Cameron elected. You & @NicolaSturgeon won it for the Tories
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
If you mean Temulkar, he has been nothing but respectful today - and I agree with quite a lot of what he said.yahyah wrote:I feel this space is less than safe, emotionally speaking.
As well as the right wing troll posting, a lurker's been around who was very arrogant and offensive to Labour supporting posters in the past.
Agree that rusty is a worthless troll who should just be banned......
Last edited by AnatolyKasparov on Fri 08 May, 2015 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
I'm going to have to stop reading these messages:
Representing Glasgow Cathcart, and then Glasgow South, at Westminster has been the greatest privilege of my political life.
It sounds like a cliché, yet it’s true that being an MP is an incredible honour, and I want to take this opportunity publicly to congratulate my successor, Stewart McDonald, and to wish him well in the job.
In the last 14 years I’ve been given opportunities that few others get, not only to meet amazing people in the constituency and beyond, but also to help them. I suspect I will never again experience anything quite as fulfilling as being able to intervene on behalf of a constituent and to succeed in changing their life for the better.
Today I am heart-broken for my party at both UK and Scottish level. I can offer no particularly valuable insights as to the way forward for either of them – I will leave that to others.
Let me just say one thing by way of an attempt at political analysis: it’s (probably correctly) assumed that Scottish Labour has paid the price for its support for the No campaign in last year’s referendum. If that is indeed the case, then I have to conclude that it was a price that had to be paid. I and many Scottish Labour colleagues lost our jobs last night, and that’s to be regretted. But if we had lost the referendum, we would have lost our country, and that would have been far, far worse.
Thank you and good bye.
Tom Harris
8 May 2015
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Tubby Isaacs wrote:I'm taking this surprisingly well, albeit can't watch the news.
Am the same Tubs. No radio, no TV, no Guardian.
Just you horrible lot, my lovely hubby and Glenn Gould playing Bach's English Suites.
The music is helping soothe the soul.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
I've just been speaking to a friendly face I often encounter, telling her what a miserable day it was. Her husband used to work with Mark Todd, at least I think it were her husband. Anyway when I remarked on it she said she already knew about Heather Wheeler doubling her majority, and beating Labour by approximately two to one. I explained that I now understood Cameron's same sex marriage bill, there were obviously a lot of closet Tories who have all come out now.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Sorry, I do apologise then, to you all and to him.AnatolyKasparov wrote:If you mean Temulkar, he has been nothing but respectful today - and I agree with quite a lot of what he said.yahyah wrote:I feel this space is less than safe, emotionally speaking.
As well as the right wing troll posting, a lurker's been around who was very arrogant and offensive to Labour supporting posters in the past.
Agree that rusty is a worthless troll who should just be banned......
Was naturally suspicious after past encounters.
-
- First Secretary of State
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
It turns out the Lib Dems’ private canvassing picked up what he called a “subtle but terrible” shift to the Tories in the last few days in Cheltenham, where Martin Horwood lost his seat.
“People were saying they wanted clarity, a government not beholden to the SNP. That message chimed with people right at the end of the campaign,” said Grant. “We did some re-canvassing in Cheltenham. The trend among switch voters – those deciding between ourselves and the Conservatives – was away from us. There was a desire for certainty.”
Actually, they didn’t pick up that trend elsewhere and poured resources into Cheltenham to try to save it. “We thought maybe this was something peculiar to Cheltenham,” he said.
It turned out it wasn’t.
From the Guardian PLB. So the fear of the SNP seeped into their marginals.
“People were saying they wanted clarity, a government not beholden to the SNP. That message chimed with people right at the end of the campaign,” said Grant. “We did some re-canvassing in Cheltenham. The trend among switch voters – those deciding between ourselves and the Conservatives – was away from us. There was a desire for certainty.”
Actually, they didn’t pick up that trend elsewhere and poured resources into Cheltenham to try to save it. “We thought maybe this was something peculiar to Cheltenham,” he said.
It turned out it wasn’t.
From the Guardian PLB. So the fear of the SNP seeped into their marginals.
- tinyclanger2
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Kettle is on almost constantly and my eye is wandering towards chocolate. I am working (not diligently) on the last part of what I hope will be a contribution to all this at some point, and meanwhile am girding loins, griddling lions, piecing cods and generally trying to get me brain aligned to help sort out this crap out next time round. Five years is not long to genuinely engage a politically dysfunctional nation, so I figure we need to get on with it.
Given my views on the non-bastard alliance, where do we - collectively - start?
Given my views on the non-bastard alliance, where do we - collectively - start?
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
LDs hold Eastleigh council seat, just not the MP
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Tell you what - you do the creative thinking and I'll do the proof-reading and editing. How's that sound?tinyclanger2 wrote:Kettle is on almost constantly and my eye is wandering towards chocolate. I am working (not diligently) on the last part of what I hope will be a contribution to all this at some point, and meanwhile am girding loins, griddling lions, piecing cods and generally trying to get me brain aligned to help sort out this crap out next time round. Five years is not long to genuinely engage a politically dysfunctional nation, so I figure we need to get on with it.
Given my views on the non-bastard alliance, where do we - collectively - start?
- rebeccariots2
- Prime Minister
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
I think one of the big ironies (there are other words that could be used there if you prefer ...) of this election outcome is that people really seemed to have decided they didn't want another coalition or deal by deal government. So all the talk from the parties that were saying they would work together with others - of whatever variety - and of using leverage - and of the public getting used to multi party politics .... seemed to be the exact opposite of what most voters thought they wanted. That particular kind of new politics was not it.StephenDolan wrote:It turns out the Lib Dems’ private canvassing picked up what he called a “subtle but terrible” shift to the Tories in the last few days in Cheltenham, where Martin Horwood lost his seat.
“People were saying they wanted clarity, a government not beholden to the SNP. That message chimed with people right at the end of the campaign,” said Grant. “We did some re-canvassing in Cheltenham. The trend among switch voters – those deciding between ourselves and the Conservatives – was away from us. There was a desire for certainty.”
Actually, they didn’t pick up that trend elsewhere and poured resources into Cheltenham to try to save it. “We thought maybe this was something peculiar to Cheltenham,” he said.
It turned out it wasn’t.
From the Guardian PLB. So the fear of the SNP seeped into their marginals.
Working on the wild side.
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
@petelawson68 1m1 minute ago
So inspired in different ways by @Jessica_Asato @twcuddleston and @Farmerfizz I've rejoined the Labour Party after 25 years #BeTheChange
So inspired in different ways by @Jessica_Asato @twcuddleston and @Farmerfizz I've rejoined the Labour Party after 25 years #BeTheChange
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
rebeccariots2 wrote:I think one of the big ironies (there are other words that could be used there if you prefer ...) of this election outcome is that people really seemed to have decided they didn't want another coalition or deal by deal government. So all the talk from the parties that were saying they would work together with others - of whatever variety - and of using leverage - and of the public getting used to multi party politics .... seemed to be the exact opposite of what most voters thought they wanted. That particular kind of new politics was not it.StephenDolan wrote:It turns out the Lib Dems’ private canvassing picked up what he called a “subtle but terrible” shift to the Tories in the last few days in Cheltenham, where Martin Horwood lost his seat.
“People were saying they wanted clarity, a government not beholden to the SNP. That message chimed with people right at the end of the campaign,” said Grant. “We did some re-canvassing in Cheltenham. The trend among switch voters – those deciding between ourselves and the Conservatives – was away from us. There was a desire for certainty.”
Actually, they didn’t pick up that trend elsewhere and poured resources into Cheltenham to try to save it. “We thought maybe this was something peculiar to Cheltenham,” he said.
It turned out it wasn’t.
From the Guardian PLB. So the fear of the SNP seeped into their marginals.
Good point. Mind you, it was Nick Clegg who kept trying to peddle that line.
- daydreamer
- Minister of State
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
FFS How thick are people? Labour wouldn't have been beholden to the SNP! Simple maths for starters. But, I knew this was probably going to happen, as soon as I got a sniff of this. Both Labour and Lib Dem 'door knockers' were starting to report back, large numbers of voters fearing a SNP controlled Labour. John Harris wrote a piece on it in the Guardian, but other sources were saying the same thing. Basically, it's a major reason why they won today, with a majority too. Though, I realise there are other reasons for them winning too.StephenDolan wrote:It turns out the Lib Dems’ private canvassing picked up what he called a “subtle but terrible” shift to the Tories in the last few days in Cheltenham, where Martin Horwood lost his seat.
“People were saying they wanted clarity, a government not beholden to the SNP. That message chimed with people right at the end of the campaign,” said Grant. “We did some re-canvassing in Cheltenham. The trend among switch voters – those deciding between ourselves and the Conservatives – was away from us. There was a desire for certainty.”
Actually, they didn’t pick up that trend elsewhere and poured resources into Cheltenham to try to save it. “We thought maybe this was something peculiar to Cheltenham,” he said.
It turned out it wasn’t.
From the Guardian PLB. So the fear of the SNP seeped into their marginals.
Smart has the plans, but stupid has the stories.
- rebeccariots2
- Prime Minister
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- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Sam Macrory @sammacrory 2m2 minutes ago
Tories helping to vote Clegg in looks like final insult. He's trapped in Parliament as quitting would see Sheffield Hallam lost too #GE2015
Working on the wild side.
- daydreamer
- Minister of State
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
But sadly, a lifetime under a majority Tory government.tinyclanger2 wrote:Kettle is on almost constantly and my eye is wandering towards chocolate. I am working (not diligently) on the last part of what I hope will be a contribution to all this at some point, and meanwhile am girding loins, griddling lions, piecing cods and generally trying to get me brain aligned to help sort out this crap out next time round. Five years is not long to genuinely engage a politically dysfunctional nation, so I figure we need to get on with it.
Given my views on the non-bastard alliance, where do we - collectively - start?
Smart has the plans, but stupid has the stories.
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
CheersBut just four days after he endorsed the now-resigned Labour leader, Brand has moved to distance himself from his public support. He said:
I think for a moment I got caught up in some mad The Thick of It, oh wow, Ed Miliband’s in my house... People were telling me, journalists, people who know loads about politics, look if Labour don’t get in it’s going to really be bad because independent living fund will get cut, public services are going get cut more than ever, its going to get worse for very poor people, the climate of the country is going to get mean and nasty. And now actually the Conservatives have won.
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
I've PM'ed you yahyahyahyah wrote:Tubby Isaacs wrote:I'm taking this surprisingly well, albeit can't watch the news.
Am the same Tubs. No radio, no TV, no Guardian.
Just you horrible lot, my lovely hubby and Glenn Gould playing Bach's English Suites.
The music is helping soothe the soul.
- LadyCentauria
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
And I'll cookPorFavor wrote:Tell you what - you do the creative thinking and I'll do the proof-reading and editing. How's that sound?tinyclanger2 wrote:Kettle is on almost constantly and my eye is wandering towards chocolate. I am working (not diligently) on the last part of what I hope will be a contribution to all this at some point, and meanwhile am girding loins, griddling lions, piecing cods and generally trying to get me brain aligned to help sort out this crap out next time round. Five years is not long to genuinely engage a politically dysfunctional nation, so I figure we need to get on with it.
Given my views on the non-bastard alliance, where do we - collectively - start?
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
tbh - talking to non-Labour people (while in Hell Yes t-shirt) there are some genuinely nice (if incomprehensible) people who think that the to-ing and fro-ing from one direction to another is a problem. So they voted for continuity as the lesser of two evils. It's the same line my dad used to give me. Well meaning, but simplistic, and - without wishing to sound arrogant - wrong.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
I expect many of you have had, or will soon receive, this e-mail. Here it is, anyway -
What can I say?Dear
This is not the email I wanted to be writing to you today. I am profoundly sorry for the defeat we suffered, and more grateful than I can express for the support that you have shown me, and our party, throughout this campaign.
I take full responsibility for the result of the election, and that’s why it’s absolutely right that I step down as Labour’s leader today.
It has been the utmost privilege to serve this party as your leader, and to spend the last four-and-a-half years fighting for the millions of British families who need and deserve the fairness, compassion and opportunity that only a Labour government can provide.
Yet while defeats are hard, we are a party that will never stop fighting for the working people of this country. Britain needs a strong Labour Party and it is the responsibility of each of us to continue the fight. The stakes are too high to wait for others to lead.
It isn’t simply leaders who achieve change, it is people that make change happen. I will never give up on that idea, I will never give up on our cause and I will never give up on our fight.
Thank you again for everything, and please, keep on fighting too. The course of progress and social justice is never simple or straightforward, and change happens because people like us don’t give up.
Yours,
Ed
- daydreamer
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Re: Friday 8th May 2015
Yes, and I think that's why the MSM ran with talk of coalitions and deals, because they'd an idea it's not what the public want, which is another reason to link the SNP to Labour.rebeccariots2 wrote:I think one of the big ironies (there are other words that could be used there if you prefer ...) of this election outcome is that people really seemed to have decided they didn't want another coalition or deal by deal government. So all the talk from the parties that were saying they would work together with others - of whatever variety - and of using leverage - and of the public getting used to multi party politics .... seemed to be the exact opposite of what most voters thought they wanted. That particular kind of new politics was not it.StephenDolan wrote:It turns out the Lib Dems’ private canvassing picked up what he called a “subtle but terrible” shift to the Tories in the last few days in Cheltenham, where Martin Horwood lost his seat.
“People were saying they wanted clarity, a government not beholden to the SNP. That message chimed with people right at the end of the campaign,” said Grant. “We did some re-canvassing in Cheltenham. The trend among switch voters – those deciding between ourselves and the Conservatives – was away from us. There was a desire for certainty.”
Actually, they didn’t pick up that trend elsewhere and poured resources into Cheltenham to try to save it. “We thought maybe this was something peculiar to Cheltenham,” he said.
It turned out it wasn’t.
From the Guardian PLB. So the fear of the SNP seeped into their marginals.
Smart has the plans, but stupid has the stories.
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9714
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
v true.daydreamer wrote:But sadly, a lifetime under a majority Tory government.tinyclanger2 wrote:Kettle is on almost constantly and my eye is wandering towards chocolate. I am working (not diligently) on the last part of what I hope will be a contribution to all this at some point, and meanwhile am girding loins, griddling lions, piecing cods and generally trying to get me brain aligned to help sort out this crap out next time round. Five years is not long to genuinely engage a politically dysfunctional nation, so I figure we need to get on with it.
Given my views on the non-bastard alliance, where do we - collectively - start?
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
-
- First Secretary of State
- Posts: 3725
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:15 pm
Re: Friday 8th May 2015
So when these deeper cuts happen will he be outraged?pk1 wrote:CheersBut just four days after he endorsed the now-resigned Labour leader, Brand has moved to distance himself from his public support. He said:
I think for a moment I got caught up in some mad The Thick of It, oh wow, Ed Miliband’s in my house... People were telling me, journalists, people who know loads about politics, look if Labour don’t get in it’s going to really be bad because independent living fund will get cut, public services are going get cut more than ever, its going to get worse for very poor people, the climate of the country is going to get mean and nasty. And now actually the Conservatives have won.tosserRussell, so you were just a fair weather friend after all.