Saturday September 27th & Sunday 28th September 2014

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:02 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:The most magnificent owl glided across our path as we were out in Gloucestershire last night.

Now I wish I were more knowledgeable about owls so I could tell you what it was (had a beautiful white underbody anyway) - but as I'm not I'm reassuring myself with the likelihood that it was a Labour owl. A highly prized species.
I'm in Gloucs at the moment. Saw some lovely buzzards yesterday near Newent.

Ah Newent - you're right in the hotspot of activities then Tubby. We've seen some fantastic birds and other wildlife up close when we've been out. One of the pluses. Certainly helps to offset the miserable attitude of some of the human beings we've encountered. Especially those who seem very annoyed that they've got a footpath anywhere near their property.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:11 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Patients neglected at privately-run NHS hospital, watchdog finds
Criticism of Hinchingbrooke hospital by Care Quality Commission also highlights inadequate hygiene standards
(Guardian)
Who'd have thought it of that estimable workers' co-operative "Circle"?

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... e-hospital

Where's Whatshername when you need her?

Richard Blogger (admittedly a Labour supporter) blames Circle on the NHS quango being out of control more than anything.

How did they slip this criticism past David Prior?

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:14 pm

The Internet graphic from Paul is interesting but not hugely surprising.

The Korean's are an example of what state funded infrastructure will do for you (business case - meh we don't need no business case). They have pretty much thrown fibre everywhere ( which is also why their mobile phone data services will be better - it improves spectral efficiency of 4G).

Japan has a fibre friendly infrastructure (because of earthquakes everything is above ground).

China is clearly developing quickly, I suspect if you looked at their tier one cities the figures on penetration would be very high.

Africa has issues with power, never mind connectivity in many countries. They have finally got a proper submarine cable to the outside world so you would think some countries will start to move forward more rapidly.

The UK has a good infrastructure for basic second generation broadband (ADSL2+) and ok for VDSL but higher speeds need fibre and we are too spread out for ubiquitous fibre. I believe there was some figure of 10bn mentioned by Labour last week. That might get fibre to every home in our cities and large towns. Germany is kind of the same, France is weird.

Australia was in theory rolling out an aggressive national program but the right wingers have killed it, so their networks will start to resemble the UK. New Zealand just needs more people.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:15 pm

Saw a kingfisher this morning, well more a flash of azure blue.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:16 pm

Ukip Donor Andrew Perloff Calls For Referendum... To Kick Out Scotland. A Ukip donor has called for an English referendum on ejecting Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom

I wonder if this property investor who's real estate firm, Panther Securities, will be in line for a bung from Cameron's 20% off new, uninsulated boxes ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09 ... 81572.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:26 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Ukip Donor Andrew Perloff Calls For Referendum... To Kick Out Scotland. A Ukip donor has called for an English referendum on ejecting Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom
I wonder if this property investor who's real estate firm, Panther Securities, will be in line for a bung from Cameron's 20% off new, uninsulated boxes ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09 ... 81572.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Barking mad, are they UKIP or the Monster Raving Loony party?

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:30 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
Ukip Donor Andrew Perloff Calls For Referendum... To Kick Out Scotland. A Ukip donor has called for an English referendum on ejecting Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom
I wonder if this property investor who's real estate firm, Panther Securities, will be in line for a bung from Cameron's 20% off new, uninsulated boxes ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09 ... 81572.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Barking mad, are they UKIP or the Monster Raving Loony party?

One "delegate" remarked within earshot of Jim Pickard that where Moseley went wrong was insisting on uniforms, as the British "don't like that kind of thing" how these cretins are taken seriously defies me?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:30 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Ukip Donor Andrew Perloff Calls For Referendum... To Kick Out Scotland. A Ukip donor has called for an English referendum on ejecting Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland from the United Kingdom
I wonder if this property investor who's real estate firm, Panther Securities, will be in line for a bung from Cameron's 20% off new, uninsulated boxes ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09 ... 81572.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, it would rather put the kybosh on the title "Ukip". "Eip" doesn't really trip off the tongue - although it may be more accurate.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 1:47 pm

Inside Tesco’s bonus-fuelled regime of fear and machismo (Independent)

No big shocks really, but an interesting article nonetheless. Perhaps their finance bod is hiding in a cupboard somewhere in Cheshunt?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 59104.html

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 2:06 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote: One "delegate" remarked within earshot of Jim Pickard that where Moseley went wrong was insisting on uniforms, as the British "don't like that kind of thing" how these cretins are taken seriously defies me?

Well, in a way he has a point as I said when this came up yesterday. far more relevant was his timing was utterly wrong - he'd missed the boat by about half a decade.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 2:07 pm

http://labourlist.org/2014/09/six-answe ... questions/

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 2:34 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Inside Tesco’s bonus-fuelled regime of fear and machismo (Independent)
No big shocks really, but an interesting article nonetheless. Perhaps their finance bod is hiding in a cupboard somewhere in Cheshunt?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 59104.html

Their bullying extends to taking over small premises like pubs and bulldozing their way through objections and planning.

Since the news broke about Tesco supporting WorkFare, apart from one bottle of American Root Beer for Mr Ohso the other week, I've not spent a penny with them and won't ever again.

We were already going off them because of staff attitudes. Don't go to their mobile phone section at Warfield in Bracknell. Mr Ohso went there twice and nearly ended up thumping an assistant each time.
It doesn't seem to improve despite all the bad publicity and with falling profits. The two go together but they seem unable to grasp that simple concept.

They lost a lot of customers over WorkFare, and once people get into the habit of shopping elsewhere, they rarely go back.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 2:37 pm

ohsocynical wrote:http://labourlist.org/2014/09/six-answe ... questions/

Thanks for the link. From it -

You can always tell when Jeremy Hunt is rattled. He starts sending out dodgy tweets.

Yes - the weather's getting a bit chillier. Hiding behind trees is a seasonal thing with him.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 2:44 pm

I tuned into the Ukip Conference TV coverage a little earlier.

I thought I'd stumbled across old footage of "The Gang Show".

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 2:44 pm

Mark Reckless has quit the Cons & joined Ukip !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29394697" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 2:58 pm

pk1 wrote:Mark Reckless has quit the Cons & joined Ukip !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29394697" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I find this bit really scary.....

Delegates started to spontaneously chant "UKIP, UKIP" when Mr Reckless announced his decision, which he said was not easy.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:00 pm

pk1 wrote:Mark Reckless has quit the Cons & joined Ukip !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29394697" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bumboils! I might have seen it live if I'd just hung around a bit longer. Did he sing "Riding Along on the Crest of a Wave"?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:02 pm

Not a total shock to anybody who heard/saw his speech in yesterday's debate (and he was one of just 6 Tories voting against later)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:03 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
pk1 wrote:Mark Reckless has quit the Cons & joined Ukip !

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29394697" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I find this bit really scary.....

Delegates started to spontaneously chant "UKIP, UKIP" when Mr Reckless announced his decision, which he said was not easy.

Yes. It does sound a bit, well, unhinged.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:09 pm

Ukip's man in the Commons bars woos Tory defectors over pint of beer
A Ukip official has been approaching a number of Conservative MPs to encourage them to defect to Nigel Farage's party

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -beer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wish he would have a word with Kate Hoey

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:12 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Not a total shock to anybody who heard/saw his speech in yesterday's debate (and he was one of just 6 Tories voting against later)

I managed not to catch his speech - although I had the coverage on in the background. He's never really been anything but a thorn in David Cameron's side, though, has he? DC may well be as happy to lose this particular one as hang onto him - but obviously it's not good publicity as it adds to the Ukip scalp count.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:13 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Ukip's man in the Commons bars woos Tory defectors over pint of beer
A Ukip official has been approaching a number of Conservative MPs to encourage them to defect to Nigel Farage's party
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -beer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wish he would have a word with Kate Hoey

You too? I had her down the other day as a possible convert.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:13 pm

It makes the nonsense about Miliband forgetting part of his speech all a bit silly now doesn't it?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:16 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
Ukip's man in the Commons bars woos Tory defectors over pint of beer
A Ukip official has been approaching a number of Conservative MPs to encourage them to defect to Nigel Farage's party
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -beer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wish he would have a word with Kate Hoey
You too? I had her down the other day as a possible convert.

Both her and Austin Mitchell (maybe the two likeliest Labour MPs to defect) have strongly denied it.

If so, who does that leave as possibles - Field? Danczuk??

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:17 pm

But great timing never the less, and hand grenade thrown into Cameron's lap on the eve of conference, marvellous.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:31 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -beer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wish he would have a word with Kate Hoey
You too? I had her down the other day as a possible convert.
Both her and Austin Mitchell (maybe the two likeliest Labour MPs to defect) have strongly denied it.

If so, who does that leave as possibles - Field? Danczuk??

Simon Danczuk, yes. Frank Field is an odd one but I don't think he'd do it, somehow. Still think Kate Hoey and AM (didn't think of Austin Mitchell but he is a strong contender, now you come to point it out) could, though, despite denials.

diGriz · Post by **diGriz** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:33 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:But great timing never the less, and hand grenade thrown into Cameron's lap on the eve of conference, marvellous.

Yet the press are racking their brains right now over how to make this a bad thing for a Leveson implementing Labour leader.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:42 pm

Reckless has confirmed he is going to force a by-election, a la Carswell.

Tories must have a decent chance of "holding" this one - though of course that will make it all the worse if they lose.

(and unlike Newark and Clacton, not *totally impossible* that Labour could come through the middle here)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:48 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote: You too? I had her down the other day as a possible convert.
Both her and Austin Mitchell (maybe the two likeliest Labour MPs to defect) have strongly denied it.

If so, who does that leave as possibles - Field? Danczuk??
Simon Danczuk, yes. Frank Field is an odd one but I don't think he'd do it, somehow. Still think Kate Hoey and AM (didn't think of Austin Mitchell but he is a strong contender, now you come to point it out) could, though, despite denials.

Whilst Danczuk is very right wing (why he ever stood for Labour is beyond me) I don't think he would, he wants power and knows he wont get that with the kippers.... AM another possible, not sure if FF has the fight left in him at 72. I favour he would go for a prosperous retirement, lobbing occasional hand grenades from the side lines.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 3:56 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Reckless has confirmed he is going to force a by-election, a la Carswell.

Tories must have a decent chance of "holding" this one - though of course that will make it all the worse if they lose.

(and unlike Newark and Clacton, not *totally impossible* that Labour could come through the middle here)

I was thinking that Labour could be in with a remote chance of sneaking it on a Tory/Kip split vote + a chunk of the Lib-Dem 2010 vote.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 4:02 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Not a total shock to anybody who heard/saw his speech in yesterday's debate (and he was one of just 6 Tories voting against later)

His agent had been ringing around the constituency sounding out reactions.

Which conjures up:

I'll only jump ship if I'm likely to get re-elected. I won't be doing it purely because I believe in UKIP more than the Tories.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 4:04 pm

Francesca Martinez (comedian, disability rights campaigner) is on Woman's Hour, now.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 4:08 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Both her and Austin Mitchell (maybe the two likeliest Labour MPs to defect) have strongly denied it.

If so, who does that leave as possibles - Field? Danczuk??
Simon Danczuk, yes. Frank Field is an odd one but I don't think he'd do it, somehow. Still think Kate Hoey and AM (didn't think of Austin Mitchell but he is a strong contender, now you come to point it out) could, though, despite denials.
Whilst Danczuk is very right wing (why he ever stood for Labour is beyond me) I don't think he would, he wants power and knows he wont get that with the kippers.... AM another possible, not sure if FF has the fight left in him at 72. I favour he would go for a prosperous retirement, lobbing occasional hand grenades from the side lines.

If Danczuk, Stringer, Hoey and Abbot defect to UKIP maybe Labour could promise not to contest the by-election to get shot of them. In the case of Abbot they might have to bung Nigel a few quid to take her.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 4:17 pm

Anyone that could jump from Labour to UKIP, deserves a kick up the arse to help them on their way.

How on earth can they be in the Labour Party and [if they do go] then embrace UKIP values?
It just goes to prove some of them are in it for the money and the glory...There's no other explanation.

I'd love lie detector tests on politicians to be mandatory....

Edited because I spelt arse wrong

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 4:22 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:Francesca Martinez (comedian, disability rights campaigner) is on Woman's Hour, now.

Thank you I really like Francesca

Post by **refitman** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 4:24 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:Francesca Martinez (comedian, disability rights campaigner) is on Woman's Hour, now.
Thank you I really like Francesca

I remember watching her on Grange Hill. Her stand-up is very good.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 4:25 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Not a total shock to anybody who heard/saw his speech in yesterday's debate (and he was one of just 6 Tories voting against later)
I managed not to catch his speech - although I had the coverage on in the background. He's never really been anything but a thorn in David Cameron's side, though, has he? DC may well be as happy to lose this particular one as hang onto him - but obviously it's not good publicity as it adds to the Ukip scalp count.

It just goes to show though. There are no Tories with a social conscience.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:00 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Not a total shock to anybody who heard/saw his speech in yesterday's debate (and he was one of just 6 Tories voting against later)
I managed not to catch his speech - although I had the coverage on in the background. He's never really been anything but a thorn in David Cameron's side, though, has he? DC may well be as happy to lose this particular one as hang onto him - but obviously it's not good publicity as it adds to the Ukip scalp count.
It just goes to show though. There are no Tories with a social conscience.

Which funnily enough, has just led me to this:

Ian Mearns MP ‏@IanMearnsMP 3m
Just wondering how UKIP expect to woo Labour blue collar voters by absorbing ultra right wing Tories - Answers on a post card to .......

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:02 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:Francesca Martinez (comedian, disability rights campaigner) is on Woman's Hour, now.

If anybody wants a good read, her "What The XXXX Is Normal" book comes highly recommended; what isn't recommended is reading it in public - I read it on the train to and from work, you get such strange looks when you can't stop laughing (with the occasional sniffle thrown in).

I know she hates to be called it but Chessi is officially An Inspiration in my book. WOW Petition woke a lot of people up to what is going on (some of us, of course, were already awake to it) and she scares the willies out of the Tory Party; whenever she appears on any TV programme they can't get any minister to face her one on one - I'd pay good money to watch her dismantle McVey.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:19 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Tucked in the middle of that Groan article is a comment that these new starter homes will be exempt from the affordable homes legislation.

Does that mean they can stack them up in city centres, waiving carbon legislation and various taxes, then sell them discounted to what were once described as "yuppies"?

New Yuppies was my first thought, on hearing of this. And, yes, city centres or anywhere there are 'brownfield' 'commercial' sites sitting empty – from what has been said about it so far. Who knows whether or not the local councils, corporations, or authorities, will have any power to block these developments in favour of whatever their Local Plan already has the land ear-marked for? I have strong memories of the last/first wave of so-called 'starter homes.' All those one-bedroom houses that were ridiculously tiny, more hamster-cage than rabbit-hutch, and impossible to sell on once the purchasers started, or wanted to start, a family.

But this idea runs hand-in-hand with this govt.'s new 'Rent To Buy' scheme.

Housing associations and social landlords will be given £400million worth of cheap loans to build new homes.
Under a new “Rent to Buy” scheme, the associations and landlords will have to rent the new houses out at below market rates – capped at 80 per cent of local market value – for seven years. After this period, people will be given the opportunity to buy the homes.

Telegraph, Property, 26 September 2014

So, it appears to me that at first glance, under this Govt.'s plans, councils and housing associations are, one the one hand, supposed to become private property developers whilst, on the other hand, being faced with competition for any brownfield commercial land they own or that is available locally for both schemes – one rent-to-buy, the other, build to sell at a discount. And, all the time, what is desperately needed is council-/HA-housing: flats, bungalows, and houses with one, two, three, four, even five bedrooms – but in different proportions from the way they've been built, historically. Having enough housing built to offer rented accommodation not just for people in urgent need but enough, too, for those on the wider waiting-list, should be what we're aiming for, what government should be requiring of our local authorities and housing associations.

There might be some scope for rents in social housing being set at a percentage of income instead of at a percentage of local open-market rental but that's another argument and I need tea...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:22 pm

"Returning back to . . . "?

God, the BBC standards continue to slip on a daily basis.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:29 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Reckless has confirmed he is going to force a by-election, a la Carswell.

Tories must have a decent chance of "holding" this one - though of course that will make it all the worse if they lose.

(and unlike Newark and Clacton, not *totally impossible* that Labour could come through the middle here)
These by-elections must be pretty expensive for the parties, three of them less than eight months from a GE. You'd think that so close to the GE the defectors would have a case for saying they would stay until then. It's not as though any of the parties is flush these days.

I was thinking of the cost, too. But causing a by-election probably has more public impact and dramatic effect, and keeps the defectors and Ukip in the public eye. I'd better get donating to Labour when\if finances permit.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:29 pm

The Batman & Robin of politics, Shapps and Gove are doing a splendid job of instilling discipline and contentment on the Tory back benches aren't they, carry on lads!

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:32 pm

PorFavor wrote:"Returning back to . . . "?

God, the BBC standards continue to slip on a daily basis.

Indeed they do. Was listening to AQ earlier. The appalling Dimbleby did his "I'm going to ask you a question and frame it in a highly contestable way but demand that you answer yes or no" trick on Yvette Cooper. I'd put him on my sacking list but he's already on it.

ETA: next week it's Gove, Shirl, some kipper, O' Flynn I think and a.n.other. Not good for my blood pressure.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:32 pm

PorFavor wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Reckless has confirmed he is going to force a by-election, a la Carswell.

Tories must have a decent chance of "holding" this one - though of course that will make it all the worse if they lose.

(and unlike Newark and Clacton, not *totally impossible* that Labour could come through the middle here)
These by-elections must be pretty expensive for the parties, three of them less than eight months from a GE. You'd think that so close to the GE the defectors would have a case for saying they would stay until then. It's not as though any of the parties is flush these days.
I was thinking of the cost, too. But causing a by-election probably has more public impact and dramatic effect, and keeps the defectors and Ukip in the public eye. I'd better get donating to Labour when\if finances permit.

To be honest, I think it's the right thing for them to do. Constituents are voting for the party, as well as the candidate, and I think it's hugely dishonest to expect them to be happy if they swap parties.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:36 pm

frightful_oik wrote:
PorFavor wrote:"Returning back to . . . "?

God, the BBC standards continue to slip on a daily basis.
Indeed they do. Was listening to AQ earlier. The appalling Dimbleby did his "I'm going to ask you a question and frame it in a highly contestable way but demand that you answer yes or no" trick on Yvette Cooper. I'd put him on my sacking list but he's already on it.

ETA: next week it's Gove, Shirl, some kipper, O' Flynn I think and a.n.other. Not good for my blood pressure.

I heard that, was hoping mad round the kitchen screaming at the radio!
Just how (and why) are they allowed to get away with it??? screech screech screech !

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:51 pm

This is quite a good article about why Japan is screwed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... again.html

Short version:

Not enough immigration (virtually none).
Not enough children - partly caused by the above but also by the way they refuse to let married women with kids work.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:54 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
refitman wrote:
Por Favor wrote:I was thinking of the cost, too. But causing a by-election probably has more public impact and dramatic effect, and keeps the defectors and Ukip in the public eye. I'd better get donating to Labour when\if finances permit.
To be honest, I think it's the right thing for them to do. Constituents are voting for the party, as well as the candidate, and I think it's hugely dishonest to expect them to be happy if they swap parties.
All things being equal, it's definitely the right thing to do, which is partly why it surprises me slightly that Tories defecting to Ukip are doing it!

I recall two defections from the Tories, one to Labour and one to LibDem, leading up to the 1997 election and I don't recall they stood down as MPs.

It is a rarity. Back in the days of the SDP, when similar things defections were happening, only one MP had the nerve to put himself up for re-election; he learned the hard way that it was a daft thing to do (the vote was split between Labour & the SDP) and I learned the hard way that tactical voting is a dumb idea, because I ended up with Angela Rumbold as my MP, one of Maggie's nastiest Tories.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:54 pm

Oh, yes it's definitely the right thing to do. But it'll still cost a bomb to all concerned. And I'm fairly sure their motivation is not based on the fact that it's the right thing to do. But I could be doing them an injustice . . .

Edited

"their" for "they're" - I'd changed the phraseology but not the spelling

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 27 Sep, 2014 5:55 pm

Brownfield sites are often considered Contaminated Land, and very expensive (dependant on the contaminate) to clear up before building can be commenced. Which is one of the reasons builders are not that interested in developing them, rather than the situation of the land.

5. Buying contaminated land
If you’re buying contaminated land, you could get financial help to clean it up and make sure it’s suitable for use.
You could get:
capital allowances
enhanced tax relief
Last updated: 4 September 2014

https://www.gov.uk/contaminated-land/bu ... nated-land" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not positive but I don't think there used to be any "capital allowances" or "enhanced tax relief" for land prospectors. Indeed, an acquaintance bought an old petrol station site to build a couple of houses and was horrified at the cost (no help) to make the site buildable. Granted he had to get the big petrol tanks removed and the land filled, but he also had costs for decontamination which all in all made his "venture" a costly exercise that left him out of pocket.
(Ernst may know more on Land Decontamination, and I do stand to be corrected if wrong)