Tuesday 2nd June

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 6:23 am

Morning all

Sorry to be so presumptuous in starting a new thread but just heard Charles Kennedy has died

A truly sad loss of someone who could have been a great politician in different circumstances

The political world seems to be losing its heart and soul at the moment

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 6:56 am

Aye, whatever problems he had he handled them with humility. He wasn't short on self deprecation either. A young child too, which makes it all the more sadder.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 7:51 am

Morning.

Just heard the news about Charles Kennedy on the radio. Very sad, his family must be in shock.
He was only 55. Can't help thinking the last five years weighed heavily upon him emotionally & physically.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 7:54 am

@howsilly - not presumptious at all - first one here opens the shutters...and makes the tea !

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 8:19 am

yahyah wrote:@howsilly - not presumptious at all - first one here opens the shutters...and makes the tea !

Thank you for the tea, yahyah.
Good-morning, everyone.

Thank you, LadyCentauria, for your post on yesterday's thread regarding Lord Falconer's candid speech in the House of Lords on Human Rights.

http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?p=55801#p55801" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 8:29 am

I'm sorry for the loss of Charles Kennedy.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 8:32 am

yahyah wrote:@howsilly - not presumptious at all - first one here opens the shutters...and makes the tea !

Oops.
Getting the sleep out of my eyes.
Thank you, howsillyofme, for the tea!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 8:35 am

Morning all.

Terrible news about Charles Kennedy - it must have grieved him immensely to see what his LibDems had become and to see what he'd built up wiped out overnight a few weeks ago.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 8:43 am

Did you see this citizenJA ?

The new Torfaen MP, author of the new Bevan biography that you got for Christmas, is endorsing Andy Burnham for leader. He also wrote one about Atlee.

''Bevan biographer Nick Thomas-Symonds backs Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham as the best person to lead Labour forward''
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ks-9371154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 8:46 am

Morning all.

Very sad news about Charles Kennedy. Someone you couldn't help but warm to - someone I could imagine having a really easy chat with if I found myself sitting next to him on a train - that's a rare politician. I agree with Roger that he must have felt immensely sad and full of loss re the Lib Dems. I hope that in no way contributed to his death.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 8:56 am

lucy manning ‏@lucymanning 20m20 minutes ago
V moving from @campbellclaret on death of his great friend Charles Kennedy http://www.alastaircampbell.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Alistair Campbell - I hadn't realised what good friends they were.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 8:57 am

Jim Pickard ‏@PickardJE 52m52 minutes ago
Charles Kennedy was the only Lib Dem MP to vote against going into coalition with the Tories.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 8:58 am

Some on Twitter have said that the SNP ran a 'dishonest smear campaign' against Kennedy and that affected him.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 9:04 am

Ali Campbell, from the piece RR linked:

''A week later, health still fine, we chatted about the elections, and he did sound pretty accepting of what had happened. Here and now is probably not the place to record all his observations about all the various main players of the various main parties north and south, but he said in some ways he was glad to be out of it.''

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 9:08 am

yahyah wrote:Did you see this citizenJA ?

The new Torfaen MP, author of the new Bevan biography that you got for Christmas, is endorsing Andy Burnham for leader. He also wrote one about Atlee.

''Bevan biographer Nick Thomas-Symonds backs Shadow Health Secretary Andy Burnham as the best person to lead Labour forward''
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ks-9371154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm glad to know Thomas-Symonds was chosen to represent Torfaen as their MP; I hadn't confirmed this yet. I'm still in mourning.
The loss of Ed Miliband's leadership is too raw yet. Apologies. My pom-poms lay by my side - motionless.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 9:09 am

Very sad news about Charles Kennedy. I always had the feeling that if circumstances had been a little different, he would have been a Labour politician. When he was a young man starting out in politics, Labour was going through another phase where the pundits had proclaimed it finished. Hence for that brief time in the early 80s the SDP seemed the only realistic platform for left of centre politics. It drew in Polly Toynbee, who says that her political stance has not changed at all over the last 30 plus years - only now her mild brand of social democracy gets her branded by the right as a rabid lefty.

Becoming an MP for a part of rural Scotland that would never elect a Labour politician sealed his fate. His loyalty to his constituents was always foremost with him. It must have been heart breaking to lose that seat.

I remember seeing a photo of Kennedy and Clegg, not long after Clegg had made his vows to Cameron in the rose garden (a marriage made in Hell if ever there was one). They were on a plane and Kennedy looked absolutely beside himself with rage, in the midst of some almighty quarrel with Clegg.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 9:10 am

David Cameron prepared to break with Europe on human rights
‘Nuclear option’ on table if Strasbourg rejects UK plan as prime minister seeks right to veto European court of human rights judgments
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... man-rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The move, which is designed to ensure the UK’s highest court remains the “ultimate arbiter of human rights”, is to be delayed until after the referendum on Britain’s EU membership which is due to take place by the end of 2017.

The prime minister, who has been told that he currently does not have the numbers on the Tory benches for his changes, believes he would overly complicate his task if he sought to change Britain’s human rights laws at the same time as renegotiating the terms of Britain’s EU membership. The convention is not part of the EU, although many Eurosceptics regard the EU and the 47-strong council of Europe human rights watchdog, which oversees the ECHR, with equal suspicion.

Never mind overly complicating his task ... this issue is unlikely to be seen separately from the referendum on Europe by the public. As Cameron, May and Gove trash the European courts ... it will add a layer of toxicity to the debate on in or out, and whatever Cameron pretends is the renegotiated package ... and could influence the outcome.

I think he and his party are hugely irresponsible to be doing anything about this before the referendum.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 9:31 am

One of the things I've been pondering since May 7th is just what happens when you spend five years wishing a party to be wiped out.

I did, with the Lib Dems. The results of such animus have not only helped the Tories get back in, but may have impacted on the psychological health of people like Kennedy.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 9:54 am

yahyah wrote:One of the things I've been pondering since May 7th is just what happens when you spend five years wishing a party to be wiped out.

I did, with the Lib Dems. The results of such animus have not only helped the Tories get back in, but may have impacted on the psychological health of people like Kennedy.

I appreciate where you are coming from ... but those in power / in charge of the Lib Dems at the time had more choice and direct influence than those of us gnashing our teeth on the sidelines. Kennedy clearly didn't agree with the biggest decision they took to go into coalition with the Tories ... he may well have been gnashing his teeth along with millions of people who gave the Lib Dems their vote in 2010. There were many opportunities for the Lib Dems to change course - or limit real excesses - that they didn't take or actually did the opposite - gave very nasty policies their full unstinting support. The bedroom tax and the Health & Social Care Act are two examples. I think the turning point for many who hoped - in vain - that the Lib Dems would actually come good in coalition was their support for the Health & Social Care which wasn't even in the coalition agreement. Many of their own lifelong supporters were warning their leaders that they would be 'wiped out' if they didn't change course - and they didn't.

Yes, we have to own the bitterness felt and expressed by ourselves and reflect on its impact in the recent election results. But for a lot of people it was a case of once bitten twice shy - and a lot of people just didn't want another coalition - their trust had been destroyed - whether it involved the Lib Dems, SNP or whoever. They wanted the little bit of certainty they thought they saw.

Appreciate that you are approaching this from a different level than I have managed with this response yahyah. My small constructive hope is that I think the Lib Dems may be in a much better position than Labour to rebuild themselves in a stronger, principled and clear form. Their wipe out - which was so comprehensive - may have cleared the decks for that.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 10:03 am

Am issuing a warning to myself tbh RR.
My feelings against the SNP run high, and there is a fear factor of some sort in there too, not entirely logically based.

But you are right, the Lib Dem leadership and most of their MPs contributed massively to their own demise.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 10:07 am

yahyah wrote:One of the things I've been pondering since May 7th is just what happens when you spend five years wishing a party to be wiped out.

I did, with the Lib Dems. The results of such animus have not only helped the Tories get back in, but may have impacted on the psychological health of people like Kennedy.

Yes, the total scale of their defeat was shocking. The received wisdom pre election was that they'd still cling on in areas where LibDem MPs were personally popular despite what their top brass were doing at Westminster. Norman Lamb in my neck of the woods stayed put for that reason (although I didn't vote for him). But it's very sad that a principled politician like Andrew George (St Ives), for example, got ousted.

I used to fantasise about the repellent Danny Alexander having his Portillo moment, but the horror of what else happened took the shine off that.

As for Clegg, chief architect of his party's destruction, I heard from a Labour activist that the leaflets promoting him were Tory blue and by their content blatantly aimed at Sheffield Halllam Tory voters.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 10:24 am

nickyinnorfolk wrote:
yahyah wrote:One of the things I've been pondering since May 7th is just what happens when you spend five years wishing a party to be wiped out.

I did, with the Lib Dems. The results of such animus have not only helped the Tories get back in, but may have impacted on the psychological health of people like Kennedy.
Yes, the total scale of their defeat was shocking. The received wisdom pre election was that they'd still cling on in areas where LibDem MPs were personally popular despite what their top brass were doing at Westminster. Norman Lamb in my neck of the woods stayed put for that reason (although I didn't vote for him). But it's very sad that a principled politician like Andrew George (St Ives), for example, got ousted.

I used to fantasise about the repellent Danny Alexander having his Portillo moment, but the horror of what else happened took the shine off that.

As for Clegg, chief architect of his party's destruction, I heard from a Labour activist that the leaflets promoting him were Tory blue and by their content blatantly aimed at Sheffield Halllam Tory voters.

The Tories clearly had the Lib Dems firmly in their sights at the election - an all out assault in the Tory / Lib Dem marginals - and very effective it was too. Now we know the Tories actively helped Ukip in Southampton Itchen in order to keep the Labour vote as low as possible ... wonder what might have gone on in other key seats. Whatever did or did not happen - the Lib Dems were clearly naive about the attack that was coming from the Tories in their heartlands.

One of the saddest things about the election outcome and the Lib Dems role in the preceding government is that it put back the possibility of effective multi party politics and electoral reform. People didn't like the coalition they got - and hated the 'miserable compromise' of a voting system that was offered to them and so roundly rejected it. This wasn't what was meant to happen - but it did. We are going to need some truly remarkable politicians and synchronicity of events and opportunities to get us out of this bind.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 10:38 am

What do we want?
What kind of country do we want to live in?
A country valuing the existence of every person, regardless of birth, ability or blessing?
Do we want to form a barrier around our belongings, use fear & might protecting property & regions while valuing humanity & openness less?
Do we cultivate fear, anger, retribution or compassion & equanimity?
The best in ourselves, every one - cooperation, magnanimity - this encourages & sustains everyone - expansive, growth without depletion.
The fruitless qualities we contain too - arrogance, selfishness - this diminishes all life & limits endeavour by its design - it's too small.

In this UK GE, many voted for single-minded, unyielding political parties when they voted at all. People aren't all one thing or another but look at current choices recently made. I'm part of what I'm writing about. I'm on the path we've chosen to take. I'm sounding off an alarm. I'm no one in particular, a citizen with everyone else.

Labour included everyone. Labour was powerful because of this. Even Tories were included within Labour. Labour's power isn't separate from each person included. Where is everyone's power now? Dispersed, not unified. That explains why Labour is in Opposition. Everyone has be included to make Labour powerful. Each must freely choose inclusion.

I use the name & associate all that's best in democratic government with the name Labour - the Labour party acknowledged the wealth all people create belongs to them collectively. It was successful. It wasn't perfect but that's normal. Replace the name if you want, create a party anew, I don't particularly care, it's not the point. The kind of political party I call best exists not for its own sake but for the sake of the organised, empowered people included within it. Labour did that successfully.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 10:50 am

Not a surprise about Kennedy, but still a shock.

Basically a good man who was often sneered at by the Westminster bubble during his time as leader for not "venturing outside his comfort zone" (ie not being right wing enough)

Sound familiar?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 11:07 am

Yes, rightwing newspaper coverage did cause Ed Miliband's downfall
Roy Greenslade

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greens ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An old article but one I seem to have missed, possibly because for the first weeks after the election I avoided the press.

Sad to read Charles Kennedy had died, one of the very few good Liberals.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 11:23 am

A lovely tribute to Charles Kennedy from Alistair Campbell, so sad we have lost another person from better political days. Campbell has grown on me over the years, his book on depression was funny, engaging and honest. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when these two men discussed current politics. It must have been devastating for Kennedy, who served well for so long to find his parliamentary days over.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... l-services" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both these fair minded men must have been watching with horror as things like the situation in Barnet and elsewhere unfolded, it was never something the majority of the public, or politicians have wanted, for services to disappear or be outsourced at huge cost. This is the core of the change that the coalition and now the Tories alone have brought us. It's a ludicrous situation really, that we are allowing this and being tricked into. Along with the loss of rights and freedoms we should I think at least take on board that what we are seeing is not normal politics at all. Kennedy and Campbeel represented that along with those other good pooiticians who preceded the bunch now in power.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... l-thatcher" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Frankie Boyles article on Cameron expresses something I've certainly wondered about. While he's not liked abroad, I wonder if it is as much for the destructive nature of what he demands as the joke he sometimes appears to be. I caught a glimpse of him the day after the election that really unsettled me, he's always had a calculating look, but this was something I'd not seen before, he's not good at hiding his feelings, which is why he hates been put up to scrutiny.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 11:31 am

yahyah wrote:One of the things I've been pondering since May 7th is just what happens when you spend five years wishing a party to be wiped out.

I did, with the Lib Dems. The results of such animus have not only helped the Tories get back in, but may have impacted on the psychological health of people like Kennedy.

I was always taught every action has a consequence and there is always the choice between right and wrong.

I am never going to forgive myself for supporting them in 2010 even though my vote here was a 'wasted' one.

They have been the cause of a lot of unnecessary suffering, and have left us facing another five years of hell.

I have no sympathy with them. None.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 11:42 am

And I have to add, although it'll undoubtedly make me look petty.
Where were the 'decent' ones when Clegg was putting a wrecking ball through what we'd believed in and supported them for?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 11:54 am

yahyah wrote:Am issuing a warning to myself tbh RR.
My feelings against the SNP run high, and there is a fear factor of some sort in there too, not entirely logically based.

But you are right, the Lib Dem leadership and most of their MPs contributed massively to their own demise.

Can identify with your feelings, though I think there's more logic to be found than is obvious. We have watched the LibDems be elevated, lauded, used, spit out and destroyed, there's indications the the same is happening to UKIP, and we are seeing the early stages of that process with the SNP, whose followers are of a very different nature. We also see the same thing happening to Labour, who are in addition to the above also the scapegoat for all the grievances of the rest. And I don't just mean the parties, I mean the supporters and voters too. In the case of Scotland it's very concerning. They have a situation up there now that is quite extreme, and they are unaware that it is that way.

It's hard watching it and seeing the things you fear materialise. I think lots of us were reluctant to think about a Tory win, because we feared it. That was not just emotional, it was logical, given what we could see. We wanted hope to be there, to counter it's opposite.

Interesting post last night about Ed. I still feel he is head and shoulders above the leadership candidates.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 12:04 pm

Election brings record BBC traffic, but news chief 'quite astonished' by 'ferocity and frequency' of party complaints

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/election- ... ency-party

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 12:06 pm

ohsocynical wrote:And I have to add, although it'll undoubtedly make me look petty.
Where were the 'decent' ones when Clegg was putting a wrecking ball through what we'd believed in and supported them for?

Cable and Ming Campbell really disappointed. I'd always thought them honourable men. I remember both of them in the run up to 2010, utterly plausible and if anything I thought they would align with Labour. But perhaps Gordon understood more than we know, and equally perhaps Ed does too.

In the same way I'm not really liking what I see among our Labour leader and deputy leader candidates, I want them to be principled and not populist, I don't want to see enablers like the LibDems were. It's passed my mind that they have already been got at in some way, from within. I want a real opposition, and I don't want that to be seen to be Sturgeon.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 12:09 pm

Do you know, I've just done something very satisfying. Although it means doodly squat, I've just blocked Cameron on Twitter.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 12:12 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Election brings record BBC traffic, but news chief 'quite astonished' by 'ferocity and frequency' of party complaints

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/election- ... ency-party

Harding... spoke more generally about the BBC’s coverage of the election. He said that “with the benefit of hindsight” the BBC should have devoted less coverage to potential coalition deals, with the polls pointing towards no overall majority wins, and “allowed the dissection of policy – that we did from defence to social care, housing to education – to speak for itself”.

He added that “we have to ask ourselves whether we did enough to hold in check the political machines of each party. With each election, the political operations of all parties becomes more controlled, there is ever greater effort put into news management.”

Hindsight. Yeah.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 12:16 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Do you know, I've just done something very satisfying. Although it means doodly squat, I've just blocked Cameron on Twitter.

It probably means more than you think.
You're likely to breathe easier.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 12:17 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Do you know, I've just done something very satisfying. Although it means doodly squat, I've just blocked Cameron on Twitter.

Good for you ... although the reactions to Cameron's tweets, often involving rather creative swearing, are sometimes worth reading.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 12:18 pm

Berlin becomes first city to make rent cap a reality

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... in-germany" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 12:24 pm

Cameron - or perhaps some 20-something, ex public school berk of an intern tweeting on his behalf - often makes a complete tit of himself on Twitter. For example, his *serious face* phone call pic to Obama and linking to an Iain Duncan Smith spoof account.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 12:30 pm

That piece by Alastair Campbell on Charles Kennedy is very moving.
http://www.alastaircampbell.org/blog/20 ... red-enemy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 1:08 pm

Public service reform, there's a link to the legislation in the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/public-leade ... nefit-cuts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 1:18 pm

Anger at Alex Salmond's 'shameful' Charles Kennedy comments hours after his death
SNP MP says former Lib Dem leader's heart was 'not in the Better Together campaign', comments which have provoked fury on social media

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... death.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 1:22 pm

Sanctioned for taking 4 year old daughter to toilet.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... r_facebook" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 1:23 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
yahyah wrote:One of the things I've been pondering since May 7th is just what happens when you spend five years wishing a party to be wiped out.

I did, with the Lib Dems. The results of such animus have not only helped the Tories get back in, but may have impacted on the psychological health of people like Kennedy.
I was always taught every action has a consequence and there is always the choice between right and wrong.

I am never going to forgive myself for supporting them in 2010 even though my vote here was a 'wasted' one.

They have been the cause of a lot of unnecessary suffering, and have left us facing another five years of hell.

I have no sympathy with them. None.

Have to agree with that (though I didn't vote for them five years ago, I totally understand why so many succumbed to the temptation)

Their near wipeout was unquestionably *the* one good thing about last month (well, that and Galloway)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 1:54 pm

Well I never!!!!

On a slightly different topic, I'm actually ahead of fashion.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 90366.html

Edited to add the link...Duuuuuhhhhh

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 2:00 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Election brings record BBC traffic, but news chief 'quite astonished' by 'ferocity and frequency' of party complaints

http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/election- ... ency-party

Harding... spoke more generally about the BBC’s coverage of the election. He said that “with the benefit of hindsight” the BBC should have devoted less coverage to potential coalition deals, with the polls pointing towards no overall majority wins, and “allowed the dissection of policy – that we did from defence to social care, housing to education – to speak for itself”.

He added that “we have to ask ourselves whether we did enough to hold in check the political machines of each party. With each election, the political operations of all parties becomes more controlled, there is ever greater effort put into news management.”
Hindsight. Yeah.

Is that the same James Harding who, by amazing coincidence, is pals with Gideon George Osborne? Oh yeah, it is. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 2:02 pm

nickyinnorfolk wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:

Harding... spoke more generally about the BBC’s coverage of the election. He said that “with the benefit of hindsight” the BBC should have devoted less coverage to potential coalition deals, with the polls pointing towards no overall majority wins, and “allowed the dissection of policy – that we did from defence to social care, housing to education – to speak for itself”.

He added that “we have to ask ourselves whether we did enough to hold in check the political machines of each party. With each election, the political operations of all parties becomes more controlled, there is ever greater effort put into news management.”
Hindsight. Yeah.

Is that the same James Harding who, by amazing coincidence, is pals with Gideon George Osborne? Oh yeah, it is. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

& ex-Murdoch. Stinks more than a ton of week's fish in a heatwave.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 2:03 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Well I never!!!!

On a slightly different topic, I'm actually ahead of fashion.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 90366.html

Edited to add the link...Duuuuuhhhhh

I like a knicker with a decent gusset. I know you were all wondering, so I thought I'd put you out of your state of suspense.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 2:09 pm

Greeting earthlings. Terribly shocked at the news of Charles Kennedy's death. Seemed a really good guy.

And thanks, @cJA. Got to dash... well, scoot. Catch you all later xxx

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 2:43 pm

David Stringer retweeted
Thomas Penny ‏@ThomasWPenny 54m54 minutes ago
Did I really hear Jeremy Hunt refer to ``the unit price of a nurse''? Can management speak get anymore dehumanising?

It already has. Lord Freud and 'stock'. Will never be able, or want, to forget that.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 2:49 pm

Labour leadership contender Liz Kendall shares her vision for Wales and the lessons she takes from the UK election
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ll-9373203" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's not much of a vision apparent here. Maybe she said more than this - I hope so. Saying she would work with and listen to Carwyn Jones seems to be stating the bleeding obvious.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 02 Jun, 2015 2:58 pm

Sorry -

Good morfternoon!