Friday 5th June 2015

Post by **refitman** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 7:02 am

Morning all.

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 7:40 am

Good morning all. Just a quick NHS story. My daughter became concerned last night when her fingertips started turning blue. This quickly spread to her palms. She attended the walk in clinic at 7.30pm. They advised her to urgently go to A and E. She arrived at A and E at 8.30pm, was immediately seen by a consultant! and was diagnosed by 8.40pm. The diagnosis? The dye had come out of her new jeans! The consultant admitted he was only able to make such a rapid diagnosis as it had happened to him in the past! Daughter was back home looking a little sheepish by 9pm. She is a 3rd year student nurse who will be starting a 6 week placement in the same A and E later this year-if she can overcome the embarrassment!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 8:07 am

Morning all.

cyclistsinthecity ‏@citycyclists 35m35 minutes ago
The cycling budget is tiny, was hugely hard fought-for. This feels completely unnecessary cyclistsinthecity added,
CTC @CTC_Cyclists
Osborne cuts £23m of Cycle Cities funding announced 6 mths ago, say http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ment-guide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …, http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cy ... 2015_06_04" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … & http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... uts-175352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Ben Bradshaw ‏@BenPBradshaw 27m27 minutes ago
How do @sarahwollaston & other Tory MPs who campaigned for tiny boost for cycling react to this? http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... uts-175352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

How many of those pre election funding announcements are now going to be jettisoned?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 8:18 am

Chris Bryant MP ‏@RhonddaBryant 1h1 hour ago
Paddington to Cardiff on the 715. £224. Honestly. Two hundred and twenty four pounds sterling. (In standard before you ask ) @FGW

Chris Bryant MP retweeted
worthers ‏@TraceyWorth1 57m57 minutes ago
@RhonddaBryant @FGW Its a rip off! Swansea to London in 3 weeks costs £268 return!

Yup - it's very expensive. Way beyond our means now.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 8:37 am

Morning.

Just been reading last night's posts and good to hear from mbc1955

I can understand he feels he may be negative. I feel much the same.

But I would rather read posts from people discussing their frustrations and fears, than those from people from the parties supposedly to the left of Labour who come here to tut, sigh, poke sticks at us, or blame us on FTN for Labour losing the election.erday

Sorry if that offends. I thought Giselle hit a big nail on the head in her post yesterday.
Disruption comes in many forms, sometimes with a fowl persona, other times more subtle.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 8:40 am

Bonnylad wrote:Good morning all. Just a quick NHS story. My daughter became concerned last night when her fingertips started turning blue. This quickly spread to her palms. She attended the walk in clinic at 7.30pm. They advised her to urgently go to A and E. She arrived at A and E at 8.30pm, was immediately seen by a consultant! and was diagnosed by 8.40pm. The diagnosis? The dye had come out of her new jeans! The consultant admitted he was only able to make such a rapid diagnosis as it had happened to him in the past! Daughter was back home looking a little sheepish by 9pm. She is a 3rd year student nurse who will be starting a 6 week placement in the same A and E later this year-if she can overcome the embarrassment!

Nice story to start the day with. Thanks.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 8:48 am

Question for Anatoly ...

Re Stella Creasy for deputy leader - I was ready to be persuaded but not so sure after she recommends this. Where is she on the left / centrist / Blairite scale do you think?

stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 21m21 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Challenging piece from @danielsleat worth reading & mulling over as part of debate! #labour2020

ProgressOnline
‏@ProgressOnline
Why Labour lost | We lost the middle ground of hard working British people, says @DanielSleat http://prog.rs/77j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This makes more sense to me however. And she gives it a heartier recommendation than the other piece, I think.

stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 23m23 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Also another really important piece to chew over from the amazing @LabourSJ about #labour2020

‏@ProgressOnline
Letter From… Croydon Central | We can build on what worked in 2015 to win in 2020, @LabourSJ http://prog.rs/77l" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 8:54 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Just been reading last night's posts and good to hear from mbc1955

I can understand he feels he may be negative. I feel much the same.

But I would rather read posts from people discussing their frustrations and fears, than those from people from the parties supposedly to the left of Labour who come here to tut, sigh, poke sticks at us, or blame us on FTN for Labour losing the election.erday

Sorry if that offends. I thought Giselle hit a big nail on the head in her post yesterday.
Disruption comes in many forms, sometimes with a fowl persona, other times more subtle.

Just my two pennyworth. Not belonging to a party myself, I rather like to hear people from the other parties of the broad left. I won't always agree with people or views from any party, but greens and others have some interesting ideas and I'll always try to listen to them courteously. Tories are a different matter of course. God, how I despise the bastards.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 9:08 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Question for Anatoly ...

Re Stella Creasy for deputy leader - I was ready to be persuaded but not so sure after she recommends this. Where is she on the left / centrist / Blairite scale do you think?

stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 21m21 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Challenging piece from @danielsleat worth reading & mulling over as part of debate! #labour2020

ProgressOnline
‏@ProgressOnline
Why Labour lost | We lost the middle ground of hard working British people, says @DanielSleat http://prog.rs/77j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This makes more sense to me however. And she gives it a heartier recommendation than the other piece, I think.
stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 23m23 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Also another really important piece to chew over from the amazing @LabourSJ about #labour2020

‏@ProgressOnline
Letter From… Croydon Central | We can build on what worked in 2015 to win in 2020, @LabourSJ http://prog.rs/77l" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Daniel Sleat talks like a Tory propaganda leaflet. Can he really not see that people who think the way he does about welfare already have a party to vote for? People have children they can afford when working. When they are made redundant, the state helps look after those children until they find a new job. Attacking people for having children and then being unfortunate enough to be made redundant is not about standing up for hard working people, it's about picking on unlucky people to satisfy the warped shadenfreude of the lucky. Deeply unpleasant.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 9:12 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Question for Anatoly ...

Re Stella Creasy for deputy leader - I was ready to be persuaded but not so sure after she recommends this. Where is she on the left / centrist / Blairite scale do you think?

stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 21m21 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Challenging piece from @danielsleat worth reading & mulling over as part of debate! #labour2020

ProgressOnline
‏@ProgressOnline
Why Labour lost | We lost the middle ground of hard working British people, says @DanielSleat http://prog.rs/77j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This makes more sense to me however. And she gives it a heartier recommendation than the other piece, I think.
stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 23m23 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Also another really important piece to chew over from the amazing @LabourSJ about #labour2020

‏@ProgressOnline
Letter From… Croydon Central | We can build on what worked in 2015 to win in 2020, @LabourSJ http://prog.rs/77l" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good morning all.

I have no idea what Creasy meant when she recommended the Sleat article, but I found it downright scary. In fact I would not support a party with that agenda. I found some very inhumane statements in it, and some misleading ones, too. If she endorses this, which is not neccessarily the case, I could not see myself wanting to vote for her, if she is merely pointing out a tendency then things change. Still I personally would like that tendency to be stamped on hard, it's fit for recruiting former re UKIP voters but little else.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 9:28 am

seeingclearly wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Question for Anatoly ...

Re Stella Creasy for deputy leader - I was ready to be persuaded but not so sure after she recommends this. Where is she on the left / centrist / Blairite scale do you think?

stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 21m21 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Challenging piece from @danielsleat worth reading & mulling over as part of debate! #labour2020

ProgressOnline
‏@ProgressOnline
Why Labour lost | We lost the middle ground of hard working British people, says @DanielSleat http://prog.rs/77j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This makes more sense to me however. And she gives it a heartier recommendation than the other piece, I think.
stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 23m23 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Also another really important piece to chew over from the amazing @LabourSJ about #labour2020

‏@ProgressOnline
Letter From… Croydon Central | We can build on what worked in 2015 to win in 2020, @LabourSJ http://prog.rs/77l" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good morning all.

I have no idea what Creasy meant when she recommended the Sleat article, but I found it downright scary. In fact I would not support a party with that agenda. I found some very inhumane statements in it, and some misleading ones, too. If she endorses this, which is not neccessarily the case, I could not see myself wanting to vote for her, if she is merely pointing out a tendency then things change. Still I personally would like that tendency to be stamped on hard, it's fit for recruiting former re UKIP voters but little else.

Not only is the tone of the article worrying, the analysis is pretty dodgy too. Sleat's obsession with the deficit is post-2010 Osborne bollocks and runs counter to how Blair won a landslide in 1997, which came after many years of Tory neglect with the promise to spend, spend, spend - on hospitals, on schools, on infrastructure. Not to mention radical left-wing ideas like the minimum wage, which had the business community squealing. It's when New Labour stopped investing in the country to make it better and fell back on plugging the holes of an unequal society with tax credits instead of trying to fix the underlying problems that was causing that inequality, that Blair started to lose votes. Most of all, you have to bear in mind, that Blair only won Labour the election after the Tory party lost its reputation for economic competence. Blair didn't do or say anything in opposition that won the mantle of economic prudence for Labour, the Tories gave it away. With international bodies now voicing concerns about the current Tory government's economic direction the very last thing Labour should be doing is aping their nonsensical deficit reduction austerity bullshit!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 9:29 am

The Staggers
‏@TheStaggers
Labour's chance to change. @stellacreasy writes for the NS: http://bit.ly/1Jvln3j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is mostly about the mechanics of campaigning - rather than policy and vision. Still don't know much more about her vision.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 10:12 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33020987" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A delay in paying welfare benefits to two disabled people was "unlawful" and "unacceptable", the High Court says.

And only Wednesday Cameron was boasting about how generous his government was to disabled people.....

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 10:47 am

The thing I find infuriating about these "people should only have the children they can afford" articles is that the writers never actually point out what the reality of such a policy would mean.

Option 1 - children left homeless or hungry as a punishment for their parents supposed irresponsibility
Option 2 - people who lose their jobs have their children taken into care becouse they can no longer afford them
Option 3 - women below a certain economic level who become pregnant are forced to have abortions or give up their children for adoption

Yet in all the debates and arguments I've seen on the subject nobody ever seems to be interested in what the actual outcome of such a policy would be. It's all abour "fairness" and "sending a message," and the actual knock on efects barely get a look in.

I'd love to see one of the anti abortion Tories like Nadine Dorries or Priti Patel actually questioned on what they think the outcome of policies like this would be, I've never understood how you can square being anti aborton with also cutting the support that enables poor women to have and raise their babies. Surely it's one or the other?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 10:55 am

seeingclearly wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Question for Anatoly ...

Re Stella Creasy for deputy leader - I was ready to be persuaded but not so sure after she recommends this. Where is she on the left / centrist / Blairite scale do you think?

stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 21m21 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Challenging piece from @danielsleat worth reading & mulling over as part of debate! #labour2020

ProgressOnline
‏@ProgressOnline
Why Labour lost | We lost the middle ground of hard working British people, says @DanielSleat http://prog.rs/77j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This makes more sense to me however. And she gives it a heartier recommendation than the other piece, I think.
stellacreasy ‏@stellacreasy 23m23 minutes ago
stellacreasy retweeted ProgressOnline
Also another really important piece to chew over from the amazing @LabourSJ about #labour2020

‏@ProgressOnline
Letter From… Croydon Central | We can build on what worked in 2015 to win in 2020, @LabourSJ http://prog.rs/77l" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good morning all.

I have no idea what Creasy meant when she recommended the Sleat article, but I found it downright scary. In fact I would not support a party with that agenda. I found some very inhumane statements in it, and some misleading ones, too. If she endorses this, which is not neccessarily the case, I could not see myself wanting to vote for her, if she is merely pointing out a tendency then things change. Still I personally would like that tendency to be stamped on hard, it's fit for recruiting former re UKIP voters but little else.

She didn't really, just said it was worth reading - the other piece is rather better I agree........

I go on what she has actually said herself, tbh - she is and always has been refreshingly free of the dreary cliched Progress-speak exemplified by the Sleat piece

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 11:08 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Question for Anatoly ...

Re Stella Creasy for deputy leader - I was ready to be persuaded but not so sure after she recommends this. Where is she on the left / centrist / Blairite scale do you think?
This makes more sense to me however. And she gives it a heartier recommendation than the other piece, I think.
Good morning all.

I have no idea what Creasy meant when she recommended the Sleat article, but I found it downright scary. In fact I would not support a party with that agenda. I found some very inhumane statements in it, and some misleading ones, too. If she endorses this, which is not neccessarily the case, I could not see myself wanting to vote for her, if she is merely pointing out a tendency then things change. Still I personally would like that tendency to be stamped on hard, it's fit for recruiting former re UKIP voters but little else.
She didn't really, just said it was worth reading - the other piece is rather better I agree........

I go on what she has actually said herself, tbh - she is and always has been refreshingly free of the dreary cliched Progress-speak exemplified by the Sleat piece

I certainly found the Sleat article challenging. In fact downright impossible to find anything to redeem it. What are people with such beliefs even doing in the Labour Party?

The trouble is as always finding direct source material from Creasy without trawling Hansard. The media sources are too full of opinion. Anything relevant would be appreciated.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 11:20 am

In reply to yourself and rebeccariots, her speech to last month's Progress conference was a fairly good guide to her beliefs (and pretty good generally)

Not sure if it is available on YouTube or similar, though.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 11:22 am

Tish wrote:The thing I find infuriating about these "people should only have the children they can afford" articles is that the writers never actually point out what the reality of such a policy would mean.

Option 1 - children left homeless or hungry as a punishment for their parents supposed irresponsibility
Option 2 - people who lose their jobs have their children taken into care becouse they can no longer afford them
Option 3 - women below a certain economic level who become pregnant are forced to have abortions or give up their children for adoption

Yet in all the debates and arguments I've seen on the subject nobody ever seems to be interested in what the actual outcome of such a policy would be. It's all abour "fairness" and "sending a message," and the actual knock on efects barely get a look in.

I'd love to see one of the anti abortion Tories like Nadine Dorries or Priti Patel actually questioned on what they think the outcome of policies like this would be, I've never understood how you can square being anti aborton with also cutting the support that enables poor women to have and raise their babies. Surely it's one or the other?

Tish. It's the American way. I have no doubt they'll increase the anti abortion platform before too long.
In America some States have actually banned it, but at the same time there's little support for the women and the children they'll be forced to have.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 11:47 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:In reply to yourself and rebeccariots, her speech to last month's Progress conference was a fairly good guide to her beliefs (and pretty good generally)

Not sure if it is available on YouTube or similar, though.

I put it in our files .... here
http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?p=53696#p53696" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit to add link

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 11:51 am

...and here's a direct link to the contenders debate

http://www.policyreview.tv/video/1030/7939" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oops - no its not, this is the link to Stella Creasy

http://www.policyreview.tv/video/1030/7944" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 12:06 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Tish wrote:The thing I find infuriating about these "people should only have the children they can afford" articles is that the writers never actually point out what the reality of such a policy would mean.

Option 1 - children left homeless or hungry as a punishment for their parents supposed irresponsibility
Option 2 - people who lose their jobs have their children taken into care becouse they can no longer afford them
Option 3 - women below a certain economic level who become pregnant are forced to have abortions or give up their children for adoption

Yet in all the debates and arguments I've seen on the subject nobody ever seems to be interested in what the actual outcome of such a policy would be. It's all abour "fairness" and "sending a message," and the actual knock on efects barely get a look in.

I'd love to see one of the anti abortion Tories like Nadine Dorries or Priti Patel actually questioned on what they think the outcome of policies like this would be, I've never understood how you can square being anti aborton with also cutting the support that enables poor women to have and raise their babies. Surely it's one or the other?
Tish. It's the American way. I have no doubt they'll increase the anti abortion platform before too long.
In America some States have actually banned it, but at the same time there's little support for the women and the children they'll be forced to have.

I know, I look at the situation in America and it terrifies me. Especially when you add in the way that some health insurance companies are trying to refuse paying out for birth control on the grounds that it goes against their moral beliefs. So no birth control, no abortion and no support for the children born as a result either.

I've always assumed that we'd be protected from such excesses becouse we don't have the same full on religious culture that they seem to have there, and anti abortion sentiment is much less widespread. That sense that children are a punishment that must be borne for the sin of sex seems utterly alien from British culture.

But increasingly I wonder if our culture is just as decedant, but in the opposite way. Here children seem increasingly to be viewed as merely an economic investment, only to be permitted if you fit into the cliche of the hard working family, and only then if your salary is above a certain level, or your job secure. Thinking of having a baby when you only earn minimum wage on a rolling temporary contract? How dare you be so irresponsible. Don't expect the state to support you when the hard work suddenly disappears. It seems as if children are increasingly viewed as a luxury item, like a car or a gym membership, something you are expected to give up when hard times come along.

MsChin · Post by **MsChin** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 12:59 pm

Hello. a fly by post as I'm orf out but I'd be grateful if some kind soul would post this link on Sparrow's blog for me - the Graun won't let me sign in for some reason.

Full JR ruling on the PIP delays case:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Adm ... /1607.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Worth noting that the Beeb's now reporting that this is not a landmark case ... Maybe not, but it's case law.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 1:57 pm

Rob Merrick ‏@Rob_Merrick 34m34 minutes ago
City of London MP Mark Field on different view on MPs' pay in his patch: "Many of my constituents wonder how I live on £70k a year" #wato

Heard him say this as I was driving home. Glad I was on my own in the car. The air was humming for a few seconds.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 1:59 pm

BuzzFeed UK Politics ‏@BuzzFeedUKPol 55m55 minutes ago
"Ed Miliband's too good for this fucking country," says a Daily Politics guest.

BuzzFeed UK Politics ‏@BuzzFeedUKPol 52m52 minutes ago
Richard Biggs apologises for swearing, while continuing to smile: "I'd like to apologise, it was very bad of me."

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 2:02 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Rob Merrick ‏@Rob_Merrick 34m34 minutes ago
City of London MP Mark Field on different view on MPs' pay in his patch: "Many of my constituents wonder how I live on £70k a year" #wato
Heard him say this as I was driving home. Glad I was on my own in the car. The air was humming for a few seconds.

The point is, I have no reason to disbelieve him on this - Cities of London/Westminster is one of the most plutocrat-friendly seats in the country.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 2:08 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Rob Merrick ‏@Rob_Merrick 34m34 minutes ago
City of London MP Mark Field on different view on MPs' pay in his patch: "Many of my constituents wonder how I live on £70k a year" #wato
Heard him say this as I was driving home. Glad I was on my own in the car. The air was humming for a few seconds.
The point is, I have no reason to disbelieve him on this - Cities of London/Westminster is one of the most plutocrat-friendly seats in the country.

I too can believe it. But it was also the tone in which he said it ... breathtakingly casual and full of a sense of entitlement. I was shouting out how did he think people earning the average wage let alone those on the minimum wage or less who are cleaning his offices etc are supposed to manage to live.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 2:15 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Heard him say this as I was driving home. Glad I was on my own in the car. The air was humming for a few seconds.
The point is, I have no reason to disbelieve him on this - Cities of London/Westminster is one of the most plutocrat-friendly seats in the country.
I too can believe it. But it was also the tone in which he said it ... breathtakingly casual and full of a sense of entitlement. I was shouting out how did he think people earning the average wage let alone those on the minimum wage or less who are cleaning his offices etc are supposed to manage to live.

Maybe he needs to get out in the real world for a bit?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 2:34 pm

This time next year Britain could be outside the EU as David Cameron clears the decks to hold referendum as early as next May
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 99438.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This time next year Britain could be outside the European Union after David Cameron cleared the way for an early referendum on Britain's membership of the 28-state bloc.

The wording of the EU Referendum Bill, which will be introduced to the House of Commons next week, allows the Government to stage the referendum on the same day as "any election", defying calls from the Electoral Commission to avoid holding the vote on the same day as other UK elections.

It means voters could be going to the polls to decide on the UK's membership of the EU on May 5 next year, the same day as local elections in England, elections to the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament and the same day as Londoners choose their new mayor.

Conservative party whips have also informed the party's MPs that the referendum campaign could last just 16 weeks, according to reports in the Daily Mail...

This is plainly ridiculous ... the outcome of the referendum might influence which way people decide they should vote - i.e. whether to vote for Ukip or not - so either hold the referendum before these elections or well afterwards. This EU referendum and the Assembly elections have all the hallmarks of Conservative stitching up even now.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 2:45 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Heard him say this as I was driving home. Glad I was on my own in the car. The air was humming for a few seconds.
The point is, I have no reason to disbelieve him on this - Cities of London/Westminster is one of the most plutocrat-friendly seats in the country.
I too can believe it. But it was also the tone in which he said it ... breathtakingly casual and full of a sense of entitlement. I was shouting out how did he think people earning the average wage let alone those on the minimum wage or less who are cleaning his offices etc are supposed to manage to live.

I wouldn't mind so much if they added at the end, "of course having a decent expense account helps"

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 3:54 pm

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Just been reading last night's posts and good to hear from mbc1955

I can understand he feels he may be negative. I feel much the same.

But I would rather read posts from people discussing their frustrations and fears, than those from people from the parties supposedly to the left of Labour who come here to tut, sigh, poke sticks at us, or blame us on FTN for Labour losing the election.erday

Is that really why you think we come here? Sigh...
First and foremost we are all human beings, and I think we're all on the left. We can only be divided if we let ourselves be. If you know a posters comments will upset you - skip their comments. Personally I like a diverse view instead of an echo chamber where everyone has to follow a particular line.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 3:57 pm

I agree, but can see why yahyah says that too - certain people *have* posted on here before with the aim of provoking and even upsetting others.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 4:00 pm

Kate Devlin ‏@_katedevlin 19m19 minutes ago
ICYMI - party sources say Labour should be braced to lose every Scottish Parliament constituency seat nxt yr http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... .127983045" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 4:30 pm

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 27 mins27 minutes ago

How Mirror readers voted in #GE2015 (YouGov megapoll):
LAB - 67%
CON - 11%
UKIP - 9%
LDEM - 5%
GRN - 2%

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 27 mins27 minutes ago
How Guardian readers voted in #GE2015 (YouGov megapoll):
LAB - 62%
GRN - 14%
LDEM - 11%
CON - 6%
UKIP - 1%

Be interesting to see how the other papers voted.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 4:33 pm

Britain Elects

How Independent readers voted in #GE2015 (YouGov megapoll):

LAB - 47%
CON - 17%
LDEM - 16%
GRN - 11%
UKIP - 4%

Here's one.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 4:38 pm

Exposing UKIP IMP ‏@SLATUKIP 21 hours ago
Election over but the #Ukip Culling continues - 5 more suspended today...

Why? Because they support #Carswell.

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip ... llors-4495" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 4:47 pm

Britain Elects ‏1 hour ago
How those privately renting voted in #GE2015 (YouGov megapoll):
CON - 34%
LAB - 32%
UKIP - 12%
LDEM - 9%
GRN - 7%

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 4:54 pm

Britain Elects

How those with a household income of <£20K voted in #GE2015 (YouGov megapoll):

LAB - 36%
CON - 29%
UKIP - 17%
LDEM - 7%
GRN - 4%

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 5:02 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Britain Elects

How Independent readers voted in #GE2015 (YouGov megapoll):

LAB - 47%
CON - 17%
LDEM - 16%
GRN - 11%
UKIP - 4%
Here's one.

I recall the comments under the leader which came out for another Con-LibDem coalition....it wasn't pretty.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 5:12 pm

Now here is something for you - the first local council by-elections since the GE were yesterday, if you dont want to know the results look away now

Cambridgeshire CC - Tory gain from UKIP (though the outgoing councillor had gone Indy after being suspended for racist outbursts) with a swing of over 25% (and a score of over 60%) since two years ago when the Tories lost this seat - and a double figure pro-Tory swing since 2009 and even a small one since 2005 when UKIP fighting local elections was very much a minority niche activity. The circumstances of the by-election may have played a part, but the Tories easily won all the Fenland DC divisions making up this seat last month - suggesting UKIP may have peaked in these parts, for now at least. Labour third and not far behind (slightly down on 2013, but up on 2009 - they rather surprisingly did not stand in 2005) and the LibDems last with less than 4%, a fall of over 10% from even two years ago and comparing with second place and 30% back in 2005.

Kettering DC - a deferred election since last month (due to the death of a UKIP candidate) saw no actual change on the last election in 2011, with 2 Tories and 1 Labour councillor elected for the three seats in this ward - though Labour's winner will be pleased to have topped the poll this time, having come between 2 Tories four years ago. This actually means a small pro-Labour swing here compared to both last time and 2007, the first election here since boundary changes (when Tories took all three seats - they also won the Northants CC division identical to this seat in 2005 [narrowly] and 2009 [very comfortably] before the CC boundaries were changed again 2 years ago) The new UKIP candidate in third, polling reasonably with over 18% and then three Green candidates bringing up the rear in their first contests here - averaging about 5% overall.

Three contests (two by-elections, one deferred vacancy) next week.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 5:18 pm

RSPCA ‏@RSPCA_official 19 mins19 minutes ago
North Yorkshire police are considering whether to bring charges against the Middleton hunt for keeping fox cubs: http://bit.ly/1Ma6uT0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 5:24 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Exposing UKIP IMP ‏@SLATUKIP 21 hours ago
Election over but the #Ukip Culling continues - 5 more suspended today...

Why? Because they support #Carswell.

http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip ... llors-4495" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Thanks for that Ohso. It gives me a bit of hope re next year's Assembly election. If the outcome is bad and we get a Tory / Ukip plus others coalition ... they might just give each other a really hard time and bad name pretty quickly. Still won't help Wales any though.

Met some friends while shopping in Cardigan this morning. They are also worried about a Tory run Welsh Government next year ... said if that happened and the UK then quit the EU they will emigrate as there will be nothing to stay for. I can quite see why they feel that way.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 5:28 pm

Stella Creasy: Labour needs to become a movement, not a machine
Shadow minister sets out her pitch for deputy leadership of the party by saying Labour needs to do more to connect with people
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 5:31 pm

ohsocynical wrote:RSPCA ‏@RSPCA_official 19 mins19 minutes ago
North Yorkshire police are considering whether to bring charges against the Middleton hunt for keeping fox cubs: http://bit.ly/1Ma6uT0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's disgusting what goes on - utterly disgusting.

I hope this is given some proper coverage. More people need to understand what goes on behind the scenes re this bloody 'sport'. It's got nothing to do with supposed control of vermin when they are keeping, feeding, releasing foxes specifically for the hunts ... and use cubs to train up their dogs.

Hate them. Sorry - I know I shouldn't hate. But I do.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 5:34 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Kate Devlin ‏@_katedevlin 19m19 minutes ago
ICYMI - party sources say Labour should be braced to lose every Scottish Parliament constituency seat nxt yr http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... .127983045" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Not surprised at that spin, tbh. Quite apart from the objective state of things, Labour will want the comparison to be with this year rather than 2011 (when they still held on to a clutch of constituency seats) so that holding onto a few places can be spun as "progress".

And we don't know the effect a new SLab leader (Dugdale will at least be a bit more difficult to mindlessly hate than Murphy) or indeed GB-wide leader (less tainted by the Better Together mishap) might have. Hard to believe that the SNP's peak hasn't either arrived or will do so shortly.......

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 5:34 pm

Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 43m43 minutes ago
"women have the attention span of a gnat." says Cameron by @IsabelOakeshott my co-author of Cameron's biography..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens ... -know.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 5:38 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Kate Devlin ‏@_katedevlin 19m19 minutes ago
ICYMI - party sources say Labour should be braced to lose every Scottish Parliament constituency seat nxt yr http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... .127983045" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Not surprised at that spin, tbh. Quite apart from the objective state of things, Labour will want the comparison to be with this year rather than 2011 (when they still held on to a clutch of constituency seats) so that holding onto a few places can be spun as "progress".

And we don't know the effect a new SLab leader (Dugdale will at least be a bit more difficult to mindlessly hate than Murphy) or indeed GB-wide leader (less tainted by the Better Together mishap) might have. Hard to believe that the SNP's peak hasn't either arrived or will do so shortly.......

I do start to wonder if these ultra negative spins don't become self prophesy though ... people are already pretty down in the dumps - if they think it's a forgone conclusion that the SNP will win everything - will they muster the energy to bother to go and vote at all?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 6:11 pm

Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 1m1 minute ago
Better not drive to Wales tonight. There is a 45 mile traffic jam on the M4 this evening: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... name=wales" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Expect Farage will be saying 'I told you so' into his pint this evening, eh? Must be down to 5 million Bulgarians and Romanians all deciding to come here at once.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 7:37 pm

Latest New Statesman tally of MP endorsements for LAB leadership

Burnham 50
Cooper 36
Kendall 32
Corbyn 11
Creagh 6
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... candidates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 7:47 pm

Sky News Tonight ‏@SkyNewsTonight 14m14 minutes ago
Internal FIFA documents seen by Sky News show Sepp Blatter knew of bribery plan http://trib.al/WiH3nZ9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 05 Jun, 2015 7:49 pm

Well you lovely lot, I'm having an early night. I was on my feet today for nearly six hours cooking. My feet are screaming at me.
It's a family picnic tomorrow. Normally we'd have had it on my birthday, but the weather's not been nice enough until now. It's like feeding the forty thousand.

Just glad I'm still able to do it.