Wenesday 24th June 2015

Post by **refitman** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 7:10 am

Morning all.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 8:32 am

Good morning.

Andy Burnham is the Labour leadership contender most likely to improve the party’s chances at the next general election, according to a survey of 2,000 people for The Independent by ORB.

And we know how reliable polls are.

Liz Kendall, the shadow Care Minister who is seen as the Blairite candidate, came second...

Really?

Ms Kendall is regarded by young voters as the contender most likely to boost Labour’s appeal; 43 per cent of 18-24 year-olds describe her in this way.

This just proves that I'm getting old.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40208.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've already had an email fom the Burnham camp bigging-up this survey. They really should know better.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 8:41 am

Morning all.

Starting the day with an emergency visit to the vets. Hope it's not going to be another one of 'those' days. I had one of them last week. That was more than enough.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 8:42 am

Morning all

Skilled workers 'may vanish' if further education budget cuts continue

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... s-continue

Britain’s supply of skilled workers may “vanish into history” if looming budget cuts in further education and the unchecked expansion of universities are allowed to continue, according to the architect of the government’s vocational education plans. Professor Alison Wolf, a respected labour market expert and author of the Wolf review of vocational education, said the further education sector that provides the bulk of the UK’s post-secondary training faces possible collapse and the loss of a valuable source of technicians and mechanics.

“I think we should be very alarmed about this – it’s a serious potential crisis,” said Wolf, who publishes a report backed by the Gatsby Foundation arguing that “unstable, inefficient, untenable and unjust” funding is destroying education provision for school-leavers outside of universities. “It damages and affects the nature of the industrial structure of this country. If you create a system in which vocational training can’t be funded, that is going to have a knock-on effect on which parts of the economy flourish and which don’t.”

This has been rumbling away in the background for a while now - schools with sixth forms are protected while sixth form colleges and the like get massive cuts.

Things must be bad if Alison Wolf (a Gove favourite) starts to complain...

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 9:47 am

Alan Milburn backs Liz Kendall.
Shocked and surprised, I am, shocked and surprised.

Pope... bears...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 9:59 am

Right. Having a bit of reset for today. Dog left at vets to be sedated and X rayed for possible tear of his cruciate ligament and / or hip dislocation. Will be ringing to find out results and collecting or approving surgery this afternoon. Need to get my head in gear - ring clients to rearrange - and get out there to mow a lawn before the black clouds become rain.

Alan Milburn eh. Grrrrr.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:16 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Right. Having a bit of reset for today. Dog left at vets to be sedated and X rayed for possible tear of his cruciate ligament and / or hip dislocation...

My sympathies Reb.

I've had two dogs with torn cruciates. One about 20 years ago who had her cruciates relaced with wire (both knees) and one who, 8 years ago, had TPLO on his right knee, he is still here.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:28 am

Interesting - I noticed this when I was watching the debate the other night. (via a Laura McInerney tweet)

Education and The English question

https://johnohowson.wordpress.com/2015/ ... -question/

What was more interesting, in a debate entirely about schools in England, were the contributions from two SNP MPs and the Labour Shadow Minister for School who sits for a constituency in Wales. Since education is a devolved activity one might have expected contributions only from MPs representing constituencies in England.

One SNP MP talked mainly about how wonderful her constituency was and didn’t really seem to mention education very much at all: something of a waste of parliamentary time when backbench members were being restricted to speeches of only six minutes duration. This was later extended to ten minutes, presumably because some potential speakers waived their previously expressed intention to speak.

Whatever happened to that English votes thing - presumably as the Tories won, they're not bothered now.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:31 am

Good morfternoon.

CentreSocialJustice @csjthinktank

Alan Milburn: It was not voters who carry the blame- we have no one else to blame but ourselves #laboursfuture
8:42 AM - 24 Jun 2015

1 1 Retweet (Politics Blog, Guardian)

and fresh from his triumph in Scotland -

Jim Murphy, another leading Labour Blairite, said exactly the same last week. (Politics Blog, Guardian)

Come back, Ed Miliband. There's nothing to forgive!

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:34 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Interesting - I noticed this when I was watching the debate the other night. (via a Laura McInerney tweet)

Education and The English question

https://johnohowson.wordpress.com/2015/ ... -question/

What was more interesting, in a debate entirely about schools in England, were the contributions from two SNP MPs and the Labour Shadow Minister for School who sits for a constituency in Wales. Since education is a devolved activity one might have expected contributions only from MPs representing constituencies in England.

One SNP MP talked mainly about how wonderful her constituency was and didn’t really seem to mention education very much at all: something of a waste of parliamentary time when backbench members were being restricted to speeches of only six minutes duration. This was later extended to ten minutes, presumably because some potential speakers waived their previously expressed intention to speak.
Whatever happened to that English votes thing - presumably as the Tories won, they're not bothered now.

They'll bundle it up with the devomore legislation.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:42 am

Swarthlander wrote:Good morning.

Andy Burnham is the Labour leadership contender most likely to improve the party’s chances at the next general election, according to a survey of 2,000 people for The Independent by ORB.
And we know how reliable polls are.
Liz Kendall, the shadow Care Minister who is seen as the Blairite candidate, came second...
Really?
Ms Kendall is regarded by young voters as the contender most likely to boost Labour’s appeal; 43 per cent of 18-24 year-olds describe her in this way.
This just proves that I'm getting old.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40208.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've already had an email fom the Burnham camp bigging-up this survey. They really should know better.

Given the stick he has had so far in this campaign, I can imagine the Burnham camp being quite pleased with these findings tbf.

Kendall's results are mediocre given the media hype she has had since the GE - the Times has been renamed the Daily Liz by one wit

But it is Cooper who should be really disappointed - must admit I was slightly surprised as well........

Tonibel · Post by **Tonibel** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:46 am

That settles it. If Milburn is voting for LK then I'm certainly not.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 10:57 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Interesting - I noticed this when I was watching the debate the other night. (via a Laura McInerney tweet)

Education and The English question

https://johnohowson.wordpress.com/2015/ ... -question/

What was more interesting, in a debate entirely about schools in England, were the contributions from two SNP MPs and the Labour Shadow Minister for School who sits for a constituency in Wales. Since education is a devolved activity one might have expected contributions only from MPs representing constituencies in England.

One SNP MP talked mainly about how wonderful her constituency was and didn’t really seem to mention education very much at all: something of a waste of parliamentary time when backbench members were being restricted to speeches of only six minutes duration. This was later extended to ten minutes, presumably because some potential speakers waived their previously expressed intention to speak.
Whatever happened to that English votes thing - presumably as the Tories won, they're not bothered now.
They'll bundle it up with the devomore legislation.

Why does that need legislating for?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 11:05 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Interesting - I noticed this when I was watching the debate the other night. (via a Laura McInerney tweet)

Education and The English question

https://johnohowson.wordpress.com/2015/ ... -question/
Whatever happened to that English votes thing - presumably as the Tories won, they're not bothered now.
They'll bundle it up with the devomore legislation.
Why does that need legislating for?

because devomore involves further. You cannot, for example, give the Scottish parliament further tax raising powers or say 'the Parliament is permanent' (whatever that means) without legislation

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 11:28 am

SpinningHugo wrote:

because devomore involves further. You cannot, for example, give the Scottish parliament further tax raising powers or say 'the Parliament is permanent' (whatever that means) without legislation

OK, I was thinking of something else.

I doubt they'll be in the same Act as the EVEL issue applies to other regions too.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 11:56 am

2m ago11:51

Here is some comment from journalists on Alan Miliburn’s speech this morning.(Politics Blog, Guardian)

And that's not the first time!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 12:06 pm

Martin Vickers, a Conservative, asks about job losses in his Cleethorpes constituency. Will the area get extra help?

Cameron says he will have a meeting about the job losses at Young’s Seafood. But the broader picture is more positive. (Politics Blog, Guardian)

The Fish Pointer swings into action.

Edited

full stop for comma

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 12:36 pm

Kate B @hangbitch

#disabled protestors occupy parliament central lobby in protest at care cuts #saveilf pic.twitter.com/fxuJMp4aZY

Follow
Yvonne Rose Bailey @yvonneRbailey

RT"@hangbitch: #disabled protestors occupy parliament central lobby in protest at care cuts #saveilf pic.twitter.com/UJ7Pn4upks”
12:28 PM - 24 Jun 2015 (Politics Blog, Guardian)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 12:58 pm

Disability cuts protest at Prime Minister's Questions

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33252828

BBC waking up to its responsibilities. Better late than never I suppose.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 1:03 pm

Tonibel wrote:That settles it. If Milburn is voting for LK then I'm certainly not.

Apparently Milburn said he didn't know whether his endorsement of her would be a blessing or a curse ... seems he is at least aware of his reputation.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 1:12 pm

Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 3m3 minutes ago
Wheelchair protesters got to the door of the Commons chamber in a demo to save the ILF. Quite a kerfuffle going on

Bloody good on em.

We need as many ways of bringing the disgraceful treatment of disabled people by the government into public awareness as possible. Cameron and co have had a really easy ride so far - mainly down to the supine press and Lib Dems. Hope they will be far more exposed for what they are in this parliament.

I will be returning to the video of the Krugman, Wolf, Hendry panel on the UK economy later today - which Spinning Hugo linked to yesterday. Well worth a watch from my viewing of it so far. And I still have the best to come with Hendry's presentation according to SH.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 3:10 pm

Another break, then......

Anything happen at PMQs today apart from the usual Cameron bluster?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 3:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Another break, then......

Anything happen at PMQs today apart from the usual Cameron bluster?

Nah. Only a protest by disabled people...Someone Tweeted that reporters were told not to film or record...Don't know whether that's true or not.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 3:30 pm

@ohsocynical
"Commons officials told broadcasters not to film the protest, which continued outside in Westminster's central lobby"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33252828" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 3:31 pm

Some good film of the protest here.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/vide ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 4:11 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:Good morning.

Andy Burnham is the Labour leadership contender most likely to improve the party’s chances at the next general election, according to a survey of 2,000 people for The Independent by ORB.
And we know how reliable polls are.
Liz Kendall, the shadow Care Minister who is seen as the Blairite candidate, came second...
Really?
Ms Kendall is regarded by young voters as the contender most likely to boost Labour’s appeal; 43 per cent of 18-24 year-olds describe her in this way.
This just proves that I'm getting old.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40208.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've already had an email fom the Burnham camp bigging-up this survey. They really should know better.
Given the stick he has had so far in this campaign, I can imagine the Burnham camp being quite pleased with these findings tbf.

Kendall's results are mediocre given the media hype she has had since the GE - the Times has been renamed the Daily Liz by one wit

But it is Cooper who should be really disappointed - must admit I was slightly surprised as well........

Given that most people had no clue who she was 7 weeks ago (most still don't) a good result for Kendall.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 4:17 pm

Which means the puff pieces in the media should have enhanced her standing more than they actually seem to have done (the classic "blank canvas" syndrome)

Her aggressively sectional campaign has likely put a fair few (voters as well as LP members) off.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 4:22 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Given that most people had no clue who she was 7 weeks ago (most still don't) a good result for Kendall.

Not really. She's out on her own in terms of her platform, just like Corbyn. Cooper and Burnham are competing much more directly.

Apart from Burnham (who ran in 2010) people who "lay down a marker" don't tend to do well in later leadership contests.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 4:25 pm

Cruddas: We’re setting up an English Labour Party

An English Labour Party is being set set up, according to former Shadow Cabinet member Jon Cruddas. The Dagenham and Rainham MP told an audience at the IPPR think tank this afternoon that the creation of a distinct Labour Party in England would be happening “imminently” – before castigating himself that it was “not something I should have said”.

The Labour Party are damned determined to make me rip up my membership card.

Whatever is being planned, it seems Cruddas will not be going through official party channels. A Labour spokesperson has confirmed that “there are currently no plans to create an English Labour Party.”

Apart from the ones we're still working on?

http://labourlist.org/2015/06/cruddas-w ... our-party/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 4:37 pm

Well, if Scottish Labour becomes "self governing" I would expect the Welsh party to follow in short order - which leaves, if only by default.......

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 4:42 pm

Cruddas is one of the guilty men. Not worth listening to.

He studied philosophy at Warwick, at a time when it was dominated by examining continental philosophy like Derrida.

It painfully shows.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 4:56 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, if Scottish Labour becomes "self governing" I would expect the Welsh party to follow in short order - which leaves, if only by default.......

Yes - it would have to happen. I wish that weren't the case (ie no "breakaway" components) but if one bit "secedes" I can't see much hope for convincing the others to stay with the status quo. What argument could possibly convince? Better to be seen to do it with a good grace, I feel.

Edited
to insert space - the final frontier

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 4:58 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Cruddas is one of the guilty men. Not worth listening to.

He studied philosophy at Warwick, at a time when it was dominated by examining continental philosophy like Derrida.

It painfully shows.

Bloody foreigners - what do they know eh?

How do you know what they were studying at Warwick - I thought you were at Oxford at the same time as Miliband?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 5:21 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Some good film of the protest here.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/vide ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They've another clip here, filmed amongst the ILF protesters near to the doors to the HoC chamber:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/vide ... mons-video

Glad to see you here again, Ohso, and hope all is well for you and yours

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 5:23 pm

Patrick O'Flynn retweeted
Suzanne Evans ‏@SuzanneEvans1 8h8 hours ago
Astonishing dereliction of our duty to UK's unemployed: Tory MEPs vote to advertise all UK jobs across EU: http://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2015 ... across-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Is Cameron aware of what his MEPs are supporting whilst he argues against the general trend re EU labour and rights?

Do all EU jobs get advertised in the UK - anyone?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 5:23 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Right. Having a bit of reset for today. Dog left at vets to be sedated and X rayed for possible tear of his cruciate ligament and / or hip dislocation. Will be ringing to find out results and collecting or approving surgery this afternoon. Need to get my head in gear - ring clients to rearrange - and get out there to mow a lawn before the black clouds become rain.

Alan Milburn eh. Grrrrr.

Fingers crossed for your dog and hoping he'll be ok

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 5:26 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Right. Having a bit of reset for today. Dog left at vets to be sedated and X rayed for possible tear of his cruciate ligament and / or hip dislocation. Will be ringing to find out results and collecting or approving surgery this afternoon. Need to get my head in gear - ring clients to rearrange - and get out there to mow a lawn before the black clouds become rain.

Alan Milburn eh. Grrrrr.
Fingers crossed for your dog and hoping he'll be ok

Doggie (Ianto) now back at home. Has had some mega pain relief so rather zonked out at present. Just as well. We could do with some knock out drops to help us come to terms with the £700 + estimate for the operation he needs to repair his cruciate ligament / stabilise his knee. That's on top of the £200 for today ...

Bring me sunshine ... (hysterical hiccup).

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 5:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, if Scottish Labour becomes "self governing" I would expect the Welsh party to follow in short order - which leaves, if only by default.......

Then Labour will end up fighting itself (no change there then).
A fragmented Labour Party has no future, self-governing factions of the same organisation will be wide open to MSM charges of incohesion. And I am sure there will be some in all of the factions to supply the ammunition.

If there is a 'Scottish Labour Party' and a 'Welsh Labour Party' I want a 'Northern Labour Party' because the buggers down south are no good for us up here.

The left can not organise together, what hope for three or more 'Labour Parties'....

...cont. p94

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 5:50 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote: ...help us come to terms with the £700 + estimate for the operation he needs to repair his cruciate ligament / stabilise his knee. That's on top of the £200 for today ...

Don't want to frighten you but the last one (TPLO) cost over £1800, fortunately insured.

Hoping for the best for your doggie.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 5:57 pm

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 6:15 pm

Swarthlander wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, if Scottish Labour becomes "self governing" I would expect the Welsh party to follow in short order - which leaves, if only by default.......
Then Labour will end up fighting itself (no change there then).
A fragmented Labour Party has no future, self-governing factions of the same organisation will be wide open to MSM charges of incohesion. And I am sure there will be some in all of the factions to supply the ammunition.

If there is a 'Scottish Labour Party' and a 'Welsh Labour Party' I want a 'Northern Labour Party' because the buggers down south are no good for us up here.

The left can not organise together, what hope for three or more 'Labour Parties'....

...cont. p94

The SDLP isn't exactly thriving. Last seen trying to merge with Fianna Fail.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 6:29 pm

More pictures and video of the violent storming of Parliament.

http://www.katebelgrave.com/2015/06/vid ... t-saveilf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 6:33 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Patrick O'Flynn retweeted
Suzanne Evans ‏@SuzanneEvans1 8h8 hours ago
Astonishing dereliction of our duty to UK's unemployed: Tory MEPs vote to advertise all UK jobs across EU: http://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2015 ... across-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Is Cameron aware of what his MEPs are supporting whilst he argues against the general trend re EU labour and rights?

Do all EU jobs get advertised in the UK - anyone?

There are over a million jobs on the EURES site, so far. Very few of them in the UK – although Northern ireland appears to be showing willing with 11 jobs which don't require experience, which was the parameter I set. The site is open for anyone to use, you can also look for courses at all levels of education, and there is advice on moving to each of the EU countries. This was the first I'd heard of the EURES portal but it makes sense to have it; people from the UK have the same rights to live, work, and study, in any EU country as the nationals of other EU countries have to come here. It can't be any worse than Universal Jobmatch, after all...
There's also a dedicated site for young people which has just launched – it's called "Drop'pin"...
https://ec.europa.eu/eures/public/en/homepage
https://ec.europa.eu/eures/droppin/

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 6:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Right. Having a bit of reset for today. Dog left at vets to be sedated and X rayed for possible tear of his cruciate ligament and / or hip dislocation. Will be ringing to find out results and collecting or approving surgery this afternoon. Need to get my head in gear - ring clients to rearrange - and get out there to mow a lawn before the black clouds become rain.

Alan Milburn eh. Grrrrr.
Fingers crossed for your dog and hoping he'll be ok
Doggie (Ianto) now back at home. Has had some mega pain relief so rather zonked out at present. Just as well. We could do with some knock out drops to help us come to terms with the £700 + estimate for the operation he needs to repair his cruciate ligament / stabilise his knee. That's on top of the £200 for today ...

Bring me sunshine ... (hysterical hiccup).

Cripes! Poor Ianto – and sympathy for you and your pocket

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 6:42 pm

Swarthlander wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: ...help us come to terms with the £700 + estimate for the operation he needs to repair his cruciate ligament / stabilise his knee. That's on top of the £200 for today ...
Don't want to frighten you but the last one (TPLO) cost over £1800, fortunately insured.

Hoping for the best for your doggie.

Thanks for that! We think we've probably had a very comprehensive explanation of exactly what's going to happen and what it will cost from the senior vet. We are strangely reassured that she is doing this and explaining it - because whilst we don't like her approach generally this is probably the one area - serious mechanical repairs - where she'll be in her element. Here's hoping.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 6:47 pm

... OPEN LETTER TO NIGEL GIBBENS, UK CHIEF VETERINARY OFFICER

23rd June 2015

Dear Mr Gibbens,

As the UK’s Chief Veterinary Officer, the final point in your official DEFRA review of the 2014 Pilot Badger Culls advised that culling shouldn’t continue in Gloucestershire in 2015 without improvements being made to contractor training and assessment, improved operational planning, monitoring and delivery:

“7. Given the lower level of badger population reduction in the Gloucestershire cull area over the past two years, the benefits of reducing disease in cattle over the planned four year cull may not be realised there. Culling should continue there in 2015 provided there are reasonable grounds for confidence that it can be carried out more effectively that year through measures of the kind mentioned in paragraph 2…

…2. Continued action is needed to increase levels of confidence in the effectiveness of any future culls, for example through contractor training and assessment, improved operational planning, monitoring and delivery.”

Please can you describe how the criteria you have specified have been improved, or alternatively if the cull will now be withdrawn from Gloucestershire in 2015 following your advice?

Yours sincerely,

Paul Herring
Chief Operating Officer

DEFRA Website: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... dger-culls" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Points 7/2: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... advice.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- See more at: http://www.networkforanimals.org/news/o ... 8chIi.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 6:51 pm

Swarthlander wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, if Scottish Labour becomes "self governing" I would expect the Welsh party to follow in short order - which leaves, if only by default.......
Then Labour will end up fighting itself (no change there then).
A fragmented Labour Party has no future, self-governing factions of the same organisation will be wide open to MSM charges of incohesion. And I am sure there will be some in all of the factions to supply the ammunition.

If there is a 'Scottish Labour Party' and a 'Welsh Labour Party' I want a 'Northern Labour Party' because the buggers down south are no good for us up here.

The left can not organise together, what hope for three or more 'Labour Parties'....

...cont. p94

I hope you don't think (and you probably don't) that everyone "down South" is rich - or even comfortable. Plenty of underprivileged southerners. Very many of them living in London. The place I live in is often referred to as a northern town on the south coast. You probably don't mean to but you come across as rather dismissive of our problems. Divide and rule is alive, flourishing, and working a treat. Sorry to use you as a punch-bag!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 6:59 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, if Scottish Labour becomes "self governing" I would expect the Welsh party to follow in short order - which leaves, if only by default.......
Yes - it would have to happen. I wish that weren't the case (ie no "breakaway" components) but if one bit "secedes" I can't see much hope for convincing the others to stay with the status quo. What argument could possibly convince? Better to be seen to do it with a good grace, I feel.

Edited
to insert space - the final frontier

sometimes I split infinitives just for the hell of it!

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 7:16 pm

I woke up this morning to a WTF string of expletives, in the week that 12 billion worth of cuts are being soft soaped to the social security budget, the bulk affecting the working and fucking skint it was heartening to hear, via sychophantic BBC journos that Buck House is in need of 150 million quids worth of upgrades and new decor... Maybe Osborne & Co can give them cost price..

The establishment haven't just won, they are now rubbing people's noses in it.. Still keep feeding us religion, sex and TV and it's alright, not much changes eh?!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 24 Jun, 2015 7:17 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:I woke up this morning to a WTF string of expletives, in the week that 12 billion worth of cuts are being soft soaped to the social security budget, the bulk affecting the working and fucking skint it was heartening to hear, via sychophantic BBC journos that Buck House is in need of 150 million quids worth of upgrades and new decor... Maybe Osborne & Co can give them cost price..

The establishment haven't just won, they are now rubbing people's noses in it.. Still keep feeding us religion, sex and TV and it's alright, not much changes eh?!

Gove wanted the royal yacht back, paid for by taxpayers.