Friday 25th.September 2015

[PaulfromYorkshire]

In fact it should be "sulfur" not "sulphur"

http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/v1/ ... m.301.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Willow904]

More UKIP off the wall utterings.

''You’ve only got to look at one of the most damaging things the Labour party has done. They say all the time, despite ignoring the facts, that it was the pit closures which destroyed working class communities. I would put it to you that the smoking ban has destroyed more communities than any pit closure has done. Because when people don’t have a place to meet, when they don’t have a place to socialise...''

What a wassock.

Going against opinion again, but I wonder how many of our pubs would have shut if it hadn't been for the smoking ban? I remember when the suggestion was first mooted. BTL comments were all for the ban, and people were saying they'd visit pubs far more frequently if the air was clean...Doesn't look like that was much of a success.

A book on what makes the English tick says that pubs played extremely important part of our lives.

We never went to pubs because of the stink left on hair and clothes.
Now, you can venture in without being sent into an asthma attack, so much better.

Surely the rise of cheap supermarket alcohol sales have had as much of an impact on pub closures as the important life saving legislation ?

There's also the huge issue of pub companies that trapped tenants into buying expensive drinks from them on tied contracts, which meant they can't make a living.

The smoking ban is one of the things Labour should be proud of.
It's patronising to working class people to suggest that they can't live without a fag in their mouths The UKIP speaker seems to think meeting up with friends means to have to light up.

As soon as the dangers of passive smoking became apparent, there was only ever going to be one direction with smoking in public places. You can't ask people who work in bars and restaurants to accept a higher risk of cancer just so someone else can indulge a habit. I personally think changing work patterns, with 7 day working and unsocial shifts has had as much impact on pubs as anything else. Friday night isn't really Friday night if you don't knock off til 11pm and Saturday night is seriously curtailed if you have to get to work by 7am on Sunday morning.

[howsillyofme1]

Sorry to be a pedant, but it's not Sulfur its Sulphur.
And for any Americans who may be reading -open a dictionary, look up “aluminium,” and check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it.

Hello - as one pedant to another, I just couldn't resist . , , ,

It's "it's Sulphur" not "its Sulphur".

Evenin' all

Going to be a chemistry pedant now but the IUPAC spelling is officially 'sulfur'

I have tried to resist for years but have had to give in after being corrected by proof readers too many times!

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Hello - as one pedant to another, I just couldn't resist . , , ,

It's "it's Sulphur" not "its Sulphur".

Evenin' all

Going to be a chemistry pedant now but the IUPAC spelling is officially 'sulfur'

I have tried to resist for years but have had to give in after being corrected by proof readers too many times!

snap

[PorFavor]

More UKIP off the wall utterings.

''You’ve only got to look at one of the most damaging things the Labour party has done. They say all the time, despite ignoring the facts, that it was the pit closures which destroyed working class communities. I would put it to you that the smoking ban has destroyed more communities than any pit closure has done. Because when people don’t have a place to meet, when they don’t have a place to socialise...''

What a wassock.

Going against opinion again, but I wonder how many of our pubs would have shut if it hadn't been for the smoking ban? I remember when the suggestion was first mooted. BTL comments were all for the ban, and people were saying they'd visit pubs far more frequently if the air was clean...Doesn't look like that was much of a success.

A book on what makes the English tick says that pubs played extremely important part of our lives.

You may say that but I, of course . . . .


I think the same as you do but I swear you to secrecy.

(Destroying communities is perhaps putting it a bit too strongly but certainly the ban had enormous social effects.)

[PorFavor]

In fact it should be "sulfur" not "sulphur"

http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/v1/ ... m.301.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why do schools not teach (in my day, at any rate) the correct spelling? That's terrible.

[ephemerid]

Fun Tweet spotted earlier (I forget who from).

Apparently UKIP delegates are none too pleased about the lack of cab drivers to ferry them about.

Doncaster. Eid. Planning.

[rebeccariots2]

The Guardian view on the Labour party conference: inclusiveness is the only way
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... e-only-way" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the recent past is any guide, Mr Corbyn and his party will be treated unforgivingly by Britain’s rightwing press this week. Every difference of view, however cautiously expressed, will be depicted as the start of a civil war. Every vote will be billed as a lurch to the left or a leadership humiliation. Every off-guard stumble or silly photo will be a gaffe-prone disaster. Only those who remember the 1980s have any inkling of what is likely to be unleashed.

The Guardian view is that Mr Corbyn must be fairly judged on his actions and words. That will be our approach this week and beyond. The new leader was elected because there is an appetite for new politics, which we share. But the political landscape facing left-leaning parties and movements across Europe offers no easy rewards. Labour’s enemies will give it no quarter, but the party should be under no illusions about the scale of the challenge it faces all the same.

And there was me thinking the G had been only too willing to join in with the unforgiving treatment - but apparently it's only been the rightwing press doing that. So they must be rightwing then .... eh?

Let's see how they live up to their pledge to fairly judge Corbyn on his actions and words - this week and beyond.....

[TechnicalEphemera]

I'm just completing an Opinium survey and one of the questions is:

To what extent do you approve or disapprove of...
Please select one response for each item.
Strongly Approve Somewhat Approve Neither Approve nor Disapprove Somewhat Disapprove Strongly Disapprove
The way David Cameron is handling his job as Prime Minister
The way Ed Miliband is handling his job as Leader of the Labour Party
The way Nick Clegg is handling his job as Leader of the Liberal Democrats
The way Nigel Farage is handling his job as leader of the UK Independence Party

Have I gone back in time ?

If only we could.

How are the press going to spin an anti Corbyn story out of that one?

Can see the headline now dreadful result for Jeremy Corbyn as even pollsters confuse him with Ed Miliband.

[howsillyofme1]

In fact it should be "sulfur" not "sulphur"

http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/v1/ ... m.301.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why do schools not teach (in my day, at any rate) the correct spelling? That's terrible.

I can't remember when it changed but I would guess around 20 years or so but can't be sure

I would imagine it is all 'sulfur' at schools now

[rebeccariots2]

Sky News Tonight ‏@SkyNewsTonight 7m7 minutes ago
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn speaks to @faisalislam about Trident, Europe, UKIP and the Labour Party conference " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I enjoyed it. You can see him actually thinking as he responds. It's very real. The absolute antithesis of plastic Ham - who would have been trotting out pre-prepared banalities that didn't answer anything asked.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Sky News Tonight ‏@SkyNewsTonight 7m7 minutes ago
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn speaks to @faisalislam about Trident, Europe, UKIP and the Labour Party conference " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I enjoyed it. You can see him actually thinking as he responds. It's very real. The absolute antithesis of plastic Ham - who would have been trotting out pre-prepared banalities that didn't answer anything asked.

Yeah because that is going to end well. From Guardian article on Trident.

O’Hara noted that both Maria Eagle, the shadow defence secretary, and Hillary Benn, the shadow foreign secretary, oppose Corbyn’s views on Trident, as does the leader of Scottish Labour, Kezia Dugdale.

Presumably the vast majority of the parliamentary party will just ignore him.

[howsillyofme1]

Sky News Tonight ‏@SkyNewsTonight 7m7 minutes ago
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn speaks to @faisalislam about Trident, Europe, UKIP and the Labour Party conference " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I enjoyed it. You can see him actually thinking as he responds. It's very real. The absolute antithesis of plastic Ham - who would have been trotting out pre-prepared banalities that didn't answer anything asked.

Yeah because that is going to end well. From Guardian article on Trident.

O’Hara noted that both Maria Eagle, the shadow defence secretary, and Hillary Benn, the shadow foreign secretary, oppose Corbyn’s views on Trident, as does the leader of Scottish Labour, Kezia Dugdale.

Presumably the vast majority of the parliamentary party will just ignore him.

Well it will be discussed at conference

Also, I don't remember either of the two names mentioned getting 60% of the vote in the leadership election

It is not as if Corbyn has kept this under wraps

Anyway, as with everything we will see what actually transpires as a policy. Nothing is decided yet

[rebeccariots2]

Martin Rowson ‏@MartinRowson 23m23 minutes ago
Latest Graun toon here, by the way http://gu.com/p/4cmdd/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bit of a grim laugh though.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Five local council byelections yesterday:

Wakefield - Labour hold a normally safe ward with nearly half the vote, slightly down on May though their share here has been very stable in recent years (it was almost unchanged this time on 2012 and 2014) and despite a modest swing to UKIP they still beat them by 2 to 1. UKIP's vote was still well down on their high point last year, though they will be pleased to have slightly increased since the GE against the general trend. Tories (who won here in 2008 at Labour's low point both locally and nationally) down by 5 points on May and well behind UKIP who just edged them then. Devolutionist party Yorkshire First managed to beat both the LibDems (4% in their first showing since 2010) and TUSC (last again with just 1%)

Norfolk CC/South Norfolk DC - two Tory holds though with somewhat contrasting patterns. The county council division saw a swing of about 6% to Labour since 2013 as they retained the second place they had gained in a by-election on GE day, having finished third behind UKIP in 2013 and the LibDems in 2009 and 2005 (though there was actually a small swing to the Tories since May) LibDems advanced decently on 2013 (and more modestly since May) and edged into third by a handful of votes as UKIP continued their decline evident at the by-election. The other district contest saw the Tories advancing to over half the vote (partly due to Independents sitting this one out) whilst Labour retained the second place they got on GE day with little change; they sat out 2011 and 2007 but are still some way short of 2003 when they polled over 40% in a straight fight with the Tories. LibDems (second here in 2011 and '07) overtook UKIP who yet again fell since the GE.

Derbyshire CC - Tory hold with an 8% increase in their vote to over half. Labour, who came third in 2013 after not standing in 2009 or 2005, advanced to runners up position despite a small drop in their share. The Tory advance was chiefly at the expense of UKIP, who dropped from 2nd two years ago to 4th now as their vote nearly halved - they were overtaken from the LibDems who started a fightback increasing to nearly 15%, having been in decline here ever since they won this division narrowly in 2005 in a straight fight with the Tories.

Wyre Forest DC - Tory hold with 40% of the vote, this was actually about 10 points up in May (when they still managed to win all three seats here in all out elections after boundary changes) and this is a relatively high percentage in an area where local politics has long been notably fragmented. UKIP held on to second despite a fall in their vote since the GE, just edging out Labour whose share was also slightly down. Greens (in their only showing this week) were the only ones apart from the Tories to advance, leapfrogging the localist Health Concern (who won at times in one of the predecessor wards) who seem to be in slow long term decline as the memory of their Independent doctor MP fades. LibDems last, falling to less than 4%.

Eight contests next week, no fewer than seven in Scotland - any Jez/Kez effect?

[TechnicalEphemera]

I enjoyed it. You can see him actually thinking as he responds. It's very real. The absolute antithesis of plastic Ham - who would have been trotting out pre-prepared banalities that didn't answer anything asked.

Yeah because that is going to end well. From Guardian article on Trident.

O’Hara noted that both Maria Eagle, the shadow defence secretary, and Hillary Benn, the shadow foreign secretary, oppose Corbyn’s views on Trident, as does the leader of Scottish Labour, Kezia Dugdale.

Presumably the vast majority of the parliamentary party will just ignore him.

Well it will be discussed at conference

Also, I don't remember either of the two names mentioned getting 60% of the vote in the leadership election

It is not as if Corbyn has kept this under wraps

Anyway, as with everything we will see what actually transpires as a policy. Nothing is decided yet

Except Corbyn and McDonnell have made their views clear what they want to do. Even if conference votes to scrap it I would still expect the parliamentary party to ignore them. They will simply see it as an attempt by the old left to land them with an electoral albatross.

Corbyn knew his shadow defence minister and his shadow foreign secretary were supporters of a nuclear deterrent when he appointed them. What is he going to do sack 2/3 of his front bench? If he doesn't he will undermine his authority.

This is just a huge divisive mess with zero electoral upside, the fact Corbyn is bringing this up confirms every doubt I had about his ability to actually lead a party.

[rebeccariots2]

Anne McGuire retweeted
Alastair Campbell ‏@campbellclaret 3h3 hours ago
Howler of the night so far - @snp minister @fionahyslop mid-speak 'we have to stay in the U.K.' - proud to lead standing ovation

[howsillyofme1]

Yeah because that is going to end well. From Guardian article on Trident.
Presumably the vast majority of the parliamentary party will just ignore him.

Well it will be discussed at conference

Also, I don't remember either of the two names mentioned getting 60% of the vote in the leadership election

It is not as if Corbyn has kept this under wraps

Anyway, as with everything we will see what actually transpires as a policy. Nothing is decided yet

Except Corbyn and McDonnell have made their views clear what they want to do. Even if conference votes to scrap it I would still expect the parliamentary party to ignore them. They will simply see it as an attempt by the old left to land them with an electoral albatross.

Corbyn knew his shadow defence minister and his shadow foreign secretary were supporters of a nuclear deterrent when he appointed them. What is he going to do sack 2/3 of his front bench? If he doesn't he will undermine his authority.

This is just a huge divisive mess with zero electoral upside, the fact Corbyn is bringing this up confirms every doubt I had about his ability to actually lead a party.

You are Dan Hodges and I claim my £10!

The party elected him leader, his positions were clear. if conference votes on this then the PLP will have to be careful what they do.

We do not know what he is planning to do yet - you just seem to make assumptions based on your dislike for him and do not credit him with any intelligence - of course he knows what Benn and Eagle think - he will need to work out how to deal with that and I am sure he has thought about it. Nuclear arms are a 1980s solution to a 1960s problem......there is every right to challenge whether the huge investment fulfils our needs - I most definitely think that they don't and would be happy to see them gone

The Labour Party is in a period of potential fundamental change. The right of the party no longer have any mandate from the membership - and the rather pathetic sight of Mandelson issuing hollow threats suggests they still do not realise that.

These attempts at continually trying to threaten Corbyn will not work at the moment and are becoming very tiresome

I think you credit him and McDonnell with very little - if you look at what McDonnell said about the surplus today in the Grauniad you will see he is actually looking at a Continuity Miliband policy pretty much - no extreme left wing policies in there as far as I can see

I have been unhappy with labour leaders int he past but I have never shown such vitriol against them as you do Corbyn...it seems everything he says and does has to be taken in the most negative way. It is a shame that this vitriol is not being directed at the ones doing the most damage to us as a nation....and I can tell you it is not Corbyn

I hesitate to say that the party is moving away from your politics as that is not something I would want to say....but you do not seem to be able to stay a supporter of a party led by Corbyn and would desire him to be removed as soon as possible.

I personally think he has done not too badly in the face of the media pressure and he comes over pretty well in the interviews I have seen - there are people out there who do subscribe to this more left wing approach but the problem is they do not tend to vote.

[RogerOThornhill]

I noticed that there's a blog now about Conservative teachers (there's been a Labour one for ages) and of Birbalsingh's teachers has written a "Why I;m a Conservative teacher but oh dear...this is a slip up...

http://conservativeteachers.com/2015/09 ... e-teacher/

It’s why I believe the Conservatives are right to find space for different approaches within the system, not least because we simply do not know what works and what does not work. Academies and Free Schools will not solve the myriad problems in education, but the best of them are striking out and redefining what is possible in neighbourhoods that previous generations left behind.

Oops.

That's not the line at all - you're supposed to say that academies will solve every problem going!

Also, there are "problems" - even after 5 years of Tory government? How is that even possible?


@TubbyIsaacs
Interesting to see Birbalsingh's tweet on this - read one of the replies.

[Tizme1]

Yeah because that is going to end well. From Guardian article on Trident.

Presumably the vast majority of the parliamentary party will just ignore him.

Well it will be discussed at conference

Also, I don't remember either of the two names mentioned getting 60% of the vote in the leadership election

It is not as if Corbyn has kept this under wraps

Anyway, as with everything we will see what actually transpires as a policy. Nothing is decided yet

Except Corbyn and McDonnell have made their views clear what they want to do. Even if conference votes to scrap it I would still expect the parliamentary party to ignore them. They will simply see it as an attempt by the old left to land them with an electoral albatross.

Corbyn knew his shadow defence minister and his shadow foreign secretary were supporters of a nuclear deterrent when he appointed them. What is he going to do sack 2/3 of his front bench? If he doesn't he will undermine his authority.

This is just a huge divisive mess with zero electoral upside, the fact Corbyn is bringing this up confirms every doubt I had about his ability to actually lead a party.

*clunk - twist* fixes Polly-Anna head in place.

So, lets imagine it's discussed at the conference, and, conference votes in favour of a replacement. Corbyn and McDonnell say Ok, fair enough, not our view but a democratic decision has been made. The 'hard left' Corbyn supporters as they are referred to have a bit of a whinge. Corbyn says, I said decisions should be made democratically which is what has happened. End of. Next.

Always look on the bright side of life............... why haven't we got any musical note smilies or am I just not seeing them?

Greetings all btw.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Well it will be discussed at conference

Also, I don't remember either of the two names mentioned getting 60% of the vote in the leadership election

It is not as if Corbyn has kept this under wraps

Anyway, as with everything we will see what actually transpires as a policy. Nothing is decided yet

Except Corbyn and McDonnell have made their views clear what they want to do. Even if conference votes to scrap it I would still expect the parliamentary party to ignore them. They will simply see it as an attempt by the old left to land them with an electoral albatross.

Corbyn knew his shadow defence minister and his shadow foreign secretary were supporters of a nuclear deterrent when he appointed them. What is he going to do sack 2/3 of his front bench? If he doesn't he will undermine his authority.

This is just a huge divisive mess with zero electoral upside, the fact Corbyn is bringing this up confirms every doubt I had about his ability to actually lead a party.

You are Dan Hodges and I claim my £10!

The party elected him leader, his positions were clear. if conference votes on this then the PLP will have to be careful what they do.

We do not know what he is planning to do yet - you just seem to make assumptions based on your dislike for him and do not credit him with any intelligence - of course he knows what Benn and Eagle think - he will need to work out how to deal with that and I am sure he has thought about it. Nuclear arms are a 1980s solution to a 1960s problem......there is every right to challenge whether the huge investment fulfils our needs - I most definitely think that they don't and would be happy to see them gone

The Labour Party is in a period of potential fundamental change. The right of the party no longer have any mandate from the membership - and the rather pathetic sight of Mandelson issuing hollow threats suggests they still do not realise that.

These attempts at continually trying to threaten Corbyn will not work at the moment and are becoming very tiresome

I think you credit him and McDonnell with very little - if you look at what McDonnell said about the surplus today in the Grauniad you will see he is actually looking at a Continuity Miliband policy pretty much - no extreme left wing policies in there as far as I can see

I have been unhappy with labour leaders int he past but I have never shown such vitriol against them as you do Corbyn...it seems everything he says and does has to be taken in the most negative way. It is a shame that this vitriol is not being directed at the ones doing the most damage to us as a nation....and I can tell you it is not Corbyn

I hesitate to say that the party is moving away from your politics as that is not something I would want to say....but you do not seem to be able to stay a supporter of a party led by Corbyn and would desire him to be removed as soon as possible.

I personally think he has done not too badly in the face of the media pressure and he comes over pretty well in the interviews I have seen - there are people out there who do subscribe to this more left wing approach but the problem is they do not tend to vote.

Yes, because pointing out the fact Corbyn is leading himself and the Labour Party into a totally unnecessary row, which could split the party and has no upside clearly makes me Dan Hodges.

- The electorate don't like divided parties.

- Trident is going to be renewed, whichever way Labour votes.

- Instead of making the argument about the economy, Cameron's venality, Osbornes desire to give the UK to China, Grayling destroying our justice system, Hunt screwing our NHS (Corbyn seems to have missed some sweeping NHS changes recently), and a massive housing crisis - all the media is going to bang on about is splits in Labour and a pointless vote on Trident that is going to be lost anyway.

I think it quite reasonable to point out this is very bad party management and awful politics. Corbyn was elected to oppose austerity and take the fight to the Tories, not start a party civil war and bang on about CND.

[StephenDolan]

Whatever is brought up at conference is discussed. Sensibly. Is everyone going to get what they want? Of course not, but that doesn't mean that the party is going to be split by this process.

[utopiandreams]

... bang on about CND.

I think you've more than made your views clear on this, TE. Meanwhile some of us have never changed our views when it comes to the sheer scale of wasted resource and effort, let alone the changes of the last 50+ years.

I'm not entirely sure which of us sounds the more like a stuck record. Whichever way it goes I'm 100% certain that I remain on the right side of history.

[LadyCentauria]

Jamie RossVerified account ‏@JamieRoss7 4h4 hours ago
A man at UKIP conference tells me a friend of his in Tesco told him the real UK population is 90m. "They can tell from food sales," he says.

Jamie RossVerified account ‏@JamieRoss7 4h4 hours ago
Five out of five people I've asked at the UKIP conf believe the UK population is much higher than it is on the basis of info from Tesco.

Jamie RossVerified account ‏@JamieRoss7 4h4 hours ago
What's going on? Another man at UKIP conf, unprovoked, says sewage companies have told him the population is 80m. Who's telling them this?

Box of frogs, comes to mind.

That one about food sales has been doing the rounds for years. yet to see any hard evidence for it mind which is a surprise....

Even if their figures could suggest a population size (unlikely as they only have a share of the market, if a generous one) you'd have to allow for the fact that many people buy more than they need (hence the rising levels of perfectly good food that ends up in bins) and also that people eat larger portions, these days.

[LadyCentauria]

In fact it should be "sulfur" not "sulphur"

http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/v1/ ... m.301.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, honestly! The official nomenclature body could have written to me to let me know because now I'm going to have to go through all my books and correct the spelling! And they should have been able to work out whether it changed, officially, in 1971 or in 1990, by now! What on earth have they been doing for the past twenty-five years? Harrumph!!!

[utopiandreams]

In fact it should be "sulfur" not "sulphur"

http://www.nature.com/nchem/journal/v1/ ... m.301.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well, honestly! The official nomenclature body could have written to me to let me know because now I'm going to have to go through all my books and correct the spelling! And they should have been able to work out whether it changed, officially, in 1971 or in 1990, by now! What on earth have they been doing for the past twenty-five years? Harrumph!!!

A little consideration if you please, LadyC, some books can take a lifetime to scribe. I have some effing texts in my bookcases that still refer to it as 'fulfur'.

[LadyCentauria]

Fear thee not, utopiandreams. I'm too respectful of books to go crossing out and writing in. My corrections, notes, and updates, go onto paper and just get slipped in. Not about to start going through my library on account of 'sulfur' - it'd take too bloody long