Sat 26 & Sun 27 Sept 2015 - Start of Labour Conference

[yahyah]

norman smithVerified account ‏@BBCNormanS 3m3 minutes ago
Its understood not enough votes from party members for Trident to be debated at #lab15

[yahyah]

Channel 4 & Sky say it's the fault of the unions.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Cameron is going to go for the reluctant 'In' - the only way he can 'win' the referendum is by staying in and getting Labour as the fall guys for staying in

In that respect Labour should avoid being seen as that by the electorate and campaign for 'In' on a socially inclusive platform and a Europe for all not just business. Labour dos not have many who are ideologically leavers and those that are skeptical are for reasons of policy rather than instinctively. Corbyn is one of those and if, as appears to be the case, he decides on campaigning for 'In' then most of others who think like him will fall in line

Labour should be in a strong position in the referendum...and I do not think Corbyn has changed that in any way...a little bit of skepticism is probably advantageous politically.

The only risk is Cameron uses the vociferous pro-Europeans in Labour (and the Lib Dems) to hide the catastrophic divisions in his own party.

Labour need to allow this to be Cameron vs garage whilst campaigning for In on their own platform, probably with the Lib Dems and stay away from the Tories all together

This referendum is a key political event - it cannot just be seen in terms of Europe but it is also important Labour use it tactically to undermine the Tories prior to 2020

It wasn't tactically clever by Corbyn. He didn't know how the EU worked because he'd never needed to engage with it properly. It would be tactically poor anyway, because it would make it look like the case for leaving wasn't boneheaded rubbish.

Unlike in Scotland, where the Tories couldn't go any lower to begin with, they'll suffer if they have to be bailed out by Labour in the campaign. The SNP will be on the same side as Cameron too. So will the Greens.

I think maybe this referendum could show up the SNP bollocks from the last one.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Chancellor George Osborne will adopt “Corbynomics” out of economic necessity by the next general election, according to Richard Murphy, the man credited as the architect of the Labour leader’s radical financial plans.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68431.html

For a start, the Chancellor doesn't do any kind of QE. It's the Bank. They have no interest in it.

He misses the key point- that Osborne eases up on austerity when he needs to.

[LadyCentauria]

Gosh, Chris Bryant's come right out of his shell with fire and power and passion! Good speech!

[LadyCentauria]

The issue of Trident (Defence) will not be debated at this Labour Conference after failing to get enough votes in either the CLP or Affiliated sections of voting. Housing, NHS, Austerity & Public Services, Mental Health, and (oh bugger, I'll have to check!) four other things Employment Rights, EU, Refugee Crisis, and the Licence Fee, will go to Compositing this evening for debates and votes over the next days. TSSA withdrew their motion for Rail to be debated.

Edit to add the four other things...

[yahyah]

Can you recap it Lady C please ?

Must say, after a day out, it is pleasing to read RR's posts from various political commentators on Corbyn's speech.

Have just watched the Marr video, and Marr came across as a bit of a simpleton.
Wanting to try and trap Corbyn into seeming extreme failed spectacularly.

Two weeks on, early days, but so glad I voted for him.
It took a lot of deciding, wasn't easy, but worth the heart ache involved seeing Corbyn relaxing into his job.

[PorFavor]

The issue of Trident (Defence) will not be debated at this Labour Conference after failing to get enough votes in either the CLP or Affiliated sections of voting. Housing, NHS, Austerity & Public Services, Mental Health, and (oh bugger, I'll have to check!) four other things will go to Compositing this evening for debates and votes over the next days. TSSA withdrew their motion for Rail to be debated.

From the Guardian :

The eight topics that will get debated are: Austerity, employment rights, Europe, housing, the licence fee, mental health, the NHS and the refugee crisis.

[yahyah]

& the headline on the Guardian:
Labour conference decides to duck debate on Trident - Politics live

Makes it sound like the Labour conference is a single entity that has made a decision to 'duck' the debate.

Why is every decision that is arrived at democratically somehow cast as sinister or given a negative connotation ?

[LadyCentauria]

& the headline on the Guardian:
Labour conference decides to duck debate on Trident - Politics live

Makes it sound like the Labour conference is a single entity that has made a decision to 'duck' the debate.

Why is every decision that is arrived at democratically is somehow cast as sinister or given a negative connotation ?

Interviewed immediately after adjournment, Chris Bryant said that the question of Trident and Defence, in general, has more to it than simply replace or don't replace – eg., persuading other countries on the matter of nuclear disarmament - and that, although people might be disappointed not to have immediate debate, it warrants more than limited time over two days (all that is available at this Conference) in order that a full and proper debate may be had.

[yahyah]

JOHN NICOLSONVerified account ‏@MrJohnNicolson 26m26 minutes ago
So it seems - two weeks into his leadership - that Corbyn has sold out on #Trident. No debate at the #Labour conference. Pathetic.

Anyone who tweets fancy telling this SNP MSP what democracy actually means ?

I know the SNP operates like a mafia organisation, omerta rules meaning no dissent, what do they expect Corbyn to do ? Go against conference rules ?

[TechnicalEphemera]

& the headline on the Guardian:
Labour conference decides to duck debate on Trident - Politics live

Makes it sound like the Labour conference is a single entity that has made a decision to 'duck' the debate.

Why is every decision that is arrived at democratically is somehow cast as sinister or given a negative connotation ?

Interviewed immediately after adjournment, Chris Bryant said that the question of Trident and Defence, in general, has more to it than simply replace or don't replace – eg., persuading other countries on the matter of nuclear disarmament - and that, although people might be disappointed not to have immediate debate, it warrants more than limited time over two days (all that is available at this Conference) in order that a full and proper debate may be had.

Thank god for that, actually thank Len who now is the stabilising hand on the tiller of the Labour Party (didn't see that coming).

The media are watching, Labour has a platform, Corbyn has a platform (disappointed he isn't going for a big speech - first impressions count and he will get his best coverage now).

Because of this instead of unpopular and irrelevant CND rubbish maybe media coverage could be dominated by a full frontal attack on Tory Austerity and corruption. Might even make Labour look united.

(Although the conspiracy theorist in me says this was pulled because the hard left knew they were going to lose and they will now seek to replace Len in Unite - who is clearly a red Tory).

Labour agrees far more than it disagrees, why is it so important to push bollocks like CND and deselection? Instead build a common platform on compromise - when Dan Hodges is talking about finding common ground with Owen Jones surely Corbyn's mates can manage it.

[TechnicalEphemera]

The issue of Trident (Defence) will not be debated at this Labour Conference after failing to get enough votes in either the CLP or Affiliated sections of voting. Housing, NHS, Austerity & Public Services, Mental Health, and (oh bugger, I'll have to check!) four other things will go to Compositing this evening for debates and votes over the next days. TSSA withdrew their motion for Rail to be debated.

From the Guardian :

The eight topics that will get debated are: Austerity, employment rights, Europe, housing, the licence fee, mental health, the NHS and the refugee crisis.

All policy areas where Labour should be able to win the argument. The refugee crisis also provides an opportunity to hammer Cameron on foreign policy.

[Willow904]

Chancellor George Osborne will adopt “Corbynomics” out of economic necessity by the next general election, according to Richard Murphy, the man credited as the architect of the Labour leader’s radical financial plans.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68431.html

But Mr Murphy, who was ranked the seventh most powerful man in global tax by the International Tax Review website in 2013, thinks Corbynomics needs to be developed quickly. He warns: “The tax area is actually relatively weak at the moment.

“For example, [Corbyn] said he would restore the 50p tax rate [but] he hasn’t talked about wealth taxation. He hasn’t talked about reform of capital gains taxation. He hasn’t talked about inheritance tax. He hasn’t talked about how he would try to better integrate benefits and income tax.”

So first Richard Murphy tells us Osborne is politically clever because he neutralises Labour by stealing all their best policies, then he ends the article by saying Corbyn really needs to tell all and sundry (including Osborne) exactly what he's planning as soon as possible!?* Besides, I thought John McDonnell was going to set up a panel of experts to tell Labour how to attain their economic goals. It seems to me Corbyn doesn't have to talk about anything. Let the experts explain what needs to be done and then offer to do it. And then wait for the Tories and MSM media to tell a nobel prize winning economist whose textbook on economics has been used on undergraduate courses that he's wrong and that Osborne the history graduate knows better.

[yahyah]

Chancellor George Osborne will adopt “Corbynomics” out of economic necessity by the next general election, according to Richard Murphy, the man credited as the architect of the Labour leader’s radical financial plans.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68431.html

But Mr Murphy, who was ranked the seventh most powerful man in global tax by the International Tax Review website in 2013, thinks Corbynomics needs to be developed quickly. He warns: “The tax area is actually relatively weak at the moment.

“For example, [Corbyn] said he would restore the 50p tax rate [but] he hasn’t talked about wealth taxation. He hasn’t talked about reform of capital gains taxation. He hasn’t talked about inheritance tax. He hasn’t talked about how he would try to better integrate benefits and income tax.”

So first Richard Murphy tells us Osborne is politically clever because he neutralises Labour by stealing all their best policies, then he ends the article by saying Corbyn really needs to tell all and sundry (including Osborne) exactly what he's planning as soon as possible!?* Besides, I thought John McDonnell was going to set up a panel of experts to tell Labour how to attain their economic goals. It seems to me Corbyn doesn't have to talk about anything. Let the experts explain what needs to be done and then offer to do it. And then wait for the Tories and MSM media to tell a nobel prize winning economist whose textbook on economics has been used on undergraduate courses that he's wrong and that Osborne the history graduate knows better.

Unless my hearing is wrong Corbyn distinctly said on Marr that he & McDonnell would not put up the 50p rate.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Chancellor George Osborne will adopt “Corbynomics” out of economic necessity by the next general election, according to Richard Murphy, the man credited as the architect of the Labour leader’s radical financial plans.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68431.html

But Mr Murphy, who was ranked the seventh most powerful man in global tax by the International Tax Review website in 2013, thinks Corbynomics needs to be developed quickly. He warns: “The tax area is actually relatively weak at the moment.

“For example, [Corbyn] said he would restore the 50p tax rate [but] he hasn’t talked about wealth taxation. He hasn’t talked about reform of capital gains taxation. He hasn’t talked about inheritance tax. He hasn’t talked about how he would try to better integrate benefits and income tax.”

So first Richard Murphy tells us Osborne is politically clever because he neutralises Labour by stealing all their best policies, then he ends the article by saying Corbyn really needs to tell all and sundry (including Osborne) exactly what he's planning as soon as possible!?* Besides, I thought John McDonnell was going to set up a panel of experts to tell Labour how to attain their economic goals. It seems to me Corbyn doesn't have to talk about anything. Let the experts explain what needs to be done and then offer to do it. And then wait for the Tories and MSM media to tell a nobel prize winning economist whose textbook on economics has been used on undergraduate courses that he's wrong and that Osborne the history graduate knows better.

They ought to have done this after 2010, and got a committee of economists in.

I'm pleased about the "wise men" McDonnell is bringing in. To go a bit Hugo, these men are in a different league to Murphy. One of the wise men, Simon Wren-Lewis, has warned about Corbyn's less good ideas bringing his good ideas into disrepute.

[yahyah]

Am I detecting a little less negativity from you TE & Tubby ?
Hope so, as don't like being at loggerheads with you both.

Good night all.

Am setting the alarm for the early hours to see the red supermoon eclipse thingy.
Fingers crossed the skies stay clear. One of the things about nearing 60 is you realise you have to sieze the moment even if it means going out into the cold. May not be around for the next one.

[PorFavor]

@ yahyah

Goodnight. I hope you get a good moon.

[rebeccariots2]

The Progress get together in Brighton sounds like a right sour fest from the tweets I'm seeing. I hope that's just the jaded media speaking.

[TechnicalEphemera]

@ yahyah

Goodnight. I hope you get a good moon.

[ohsocynical]

September 27, 2015
Ann Pettifor invited to join Labour Leader’s new Economic Advisory Committee

http://www.primeeconomics.org/articles/ ... ttwuicjzvu

[LadyCentauria]

Chris Bryant's speech, recap:
People are fond of quoting that ours is the Mother of all Parliaments but the truth is that our democracy is broken. Cameron had only 24% in GE but is pushing through policies that weren't even in their manifesto. Government Ministers regularly refuse to defend their policies and PMQs is a disgrace because Cameron doesn't even pretend to answer the questions. He wraps himself up in the UK flag but is dicing this country up into tiny tiny pieces; and for the first time in history will create two tiers of MPs. He puffs out his chest and goes on about the Magna Carta but in five years has appointed three times as many Barons as there were present at Runnymede in 1215. ...

And all the while they're making it more difficult for people to register to vote, they're changing the rules on Party funding, and changing the Parliamentary boundaries, all with the single aim of keeping Labour permanently out of power. Conference, this vote-rigging, seat-selling, Lords-packing, Council-cutting, gerrymandering, Government is hurting our democracy and we will fight them every single step of the way. People are sick and tired of that kind of command-and-control winner-takes-it-all kind of politics. They see out of touch self-important Ministers parroting the party line as if their lives and careers depended on it, and they're crying out for something better. And the truth is we fell for that way of doing politics, too. All too often we weren't thinking, "What do I believe? What's in my heart? What do I think?" We were thinking, "What's the line?" and voters hate that. They think it's dishonest and, you know what, it's the only thing they can smell through the television screens. That's why Jeremy won. Genuine, authentic, respectful. And that's, Conference, why we must change the Party.

We must speak our minds, speak from the heart, for heaven's sake. We must bring the public back into the heart of politics. And what better way can you think than allowing sixteen- and seventeen-year-olds to vote in the upcoming European Referendum?

You know, I think we've got to do our job of Opposition better, too. Not opposing for opposing's sake but when the Government's wrong making sure they lose the vote. They've only got a majority of twelve; and if it means that we've got to get the Scottish Nationalists on board, and the Welsh Nationalists, and the Unionists, and... and Caroline Lucas, I suppose... and... uh, the Liberal Democrats... and, yes, even rebel Tories, to defeat the Government then that's what we'll do. We've already done it once this year! And, by the Lord, we're going to do it again and again and again both in the House of Commons and in the House of Lords.

Conference, we've all heard that cynical old line that if voting ever changed anything they'd abolish it. I bet half of you in the room you've said it yourself as a joke, sometimes. But. It's just not true. And this country cannot afford this Party, the Labour Party, to believe it. So don't listen to anyone who tells you they know the outcome of the next General Election. The Tories will tell you that it's a done deal, that it's inevitable that they're going to win; but, since when did we believe anything that the Tories ever say? Nothing is inevitable in politics. Surely this summer has taught us that. Against expectation Jeremy won - and I'm told there are some of you who though England had a chance of winning last night.

Nothing is inevitable in politics and we should use the fire that's in our bellies to get the Tories out in 2020.

And, Conference, don't listen either to anyone who tells you it doesn't matter if we lose, or that Labour did nothing worthwhile in Government. We brokered peace in Northern Ireland. We fixed the leaking roofs in our schools and hospitals. We gave kids a better start in life because of SureStart. We introduced the National Minimum Wage. We trebled the Arts budget. We got more people, from every background, participating in sports. And I'm proud that we transformed rights for lesbian, and gay, and bisexual, and transgendered, people.

That, Conference. That is why we can never ever be a Party of protest alone. Just look at our history. When the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants lost the Taff Vale (? sp?) court case in 1901 they faced financial ruin. And what did they do? They didn't retreat into some huddle. They made sure that all the Trade Unions in this country resolved that they had to win seats in Parliament if they wanted to change the law. So hundreds of thousands of ordinary people joined the Labour Party. And just five years later, thanks to the first Labour MPs in Parliament, the Right to Strike was enshrined in law. So. Now that this Government is waging war on union members again, we should resolve, with equal determination, to fight to win a majority in the House of Commons in 2020. And that means turning our backs on cynicism, not on the voters. It means really listening to the voters, crafting modern policies that go with the grain of their lives. Inspiring them. Captivating their imaginations and, yes, making sure the sums add up. Because our task is writing a better history for our Party and a better future for this country.

But we can only do that if we are a strong broad alliance. I think of it a bit like that film that came out last year, Pride: The Movie. I don't know whether you've seen it. It's about when the lesbians and gay Support the Miners group turn up in this Welsh valley to support the miners' cause. It was an unlikely alliance but somehow it worked. So, Len, join up with Tony. Angela with Peter. Liz with Jeremy, Yvette with Andy, because there is pride in a union.

Pride in the union of workers by hand and by brain.
Pride in all parts of our Party joining together.
Pride in middle-class and working-class and every class, all campaigning together. Pride in the Union of our four Home Nations.
Pride in Britain taking a leading rôle in the European Union.
And we can only write a better future for our Party, we can only get the Tories out, if we show pride in our unity.

Thank you, Conference.

(Ok, so I started off trying to quote a bit and prècis a bit but you've got just about the whole thing, there. You'll just have to imagine CB delivering it with real heart and passion. It was a rousing speech; and he'd have been tub-thumping if he'd had a tub to thump! It is my transcription. It is for the purpose of education and for the service of the politically-interested public at large, and, especially, in service to the hearing impaired.)

[LadyCentauria]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ey-policie

Some of these people need to take a good hard look at themselves!

Full URL:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... y-policies

[RogerOThornhill]

Just noticed this on the Education Select Committee website

http://www.parliament.uk/education-committee

Letter from the Committee to the Rt Hon Nicky Morgan MP on fairer funding (pdf PDF 17.86 KB)Opens in a new window

Fairer funding
Thank you for appearing before the Committee last week. We very much appreciated the opportunity to discuss a range of current issues relating to your responsibilities as Secretary of State for Education.

During the evidence session, we had an exchange on the subject of fairer funding. My Committee welcomes the Government’s commitment to address this very important area. Our current intention is to examine your department’s proposals for reform, once they have been issued for consultation and we will be seeking to arrange access to
consultation responses to help us in our work.

At this stage, we should be grateful if you could confirm the likely publication date of the consultation. We also seek confirmation from you that funding for 16 to 18 year olds will be included in the proposals for reform.

We hope that we will see new proposals at an early date. The Committee may of course have to review its own course of action in relation to fairer funding if there is significant delay in publishing a new consultation.

i.e. get a move on otherwise we'll do it ourselves and tell everyone that you've been dragging your heels.

[ohsocynical]

Just noticed this on the Education Select Committee website

http://www.parliament.uk/education-committee

Letter from the Committee to the Rt Hon Nicky Morgan MP on fairer funding (pdf PDF 17.86 KB)Opens in a new window

Fairer funding
Thank you for appearing before the Committee last week. We very much appreciated the opportunity to discuss a range of current issues relating to your responsibilities as Secretary of State for Education.

During the evidence session, we had an exchange on the subject of fairer funding. My Committee welcomes the Government’s commitment to address this very important area. Our current intention is to examine your department’s proposals for reform, once they have been issued for consultation and we will be seeking to arrange access to
consultation responses to help us in our work.

At this stage, we should be grateful if you could confirm the likely publication date of the consultation. We also seek confirmation from you that funding for 16 to 18 year olds will be included in the proposals for reform.

We hope that we will see new proposals at an early date. The Committee may of course have to review its own course of action in relation to fairer funding if there is significant delay in publishing a new consultation.

i.e. get a move on otherwise we'll do it ourselves and tell everyone that you've been dragging your heels.

It's water off a ducks back though. Getting their hands slapped doesn't bother them at all...

[RogerOThornhill]

Just noticed this on the Education Select Committee website

http://www.parliament.uk/education-committee

Letter from the Committee to the Rt Hon Nicky Morgan MP on fairer funding (pdf PDF 17.86 KB)Opens in a new window

Fairer funding
Thank you for appearing before the Committee last week. We very much appreciated the opportunity to discuss a range of current issues relating to your responsibilities as Secretary of State for Education.

During the evidence session, we had an exchange on the subject of fairer funding. My Committee welcomes the Government’s commitment to address this very important area. Our current intention is to examine your department’s proposals for reform, once they have been issued for consultation and we will be seeking to arrange access to
consultation responses to help us in our work.

At this stage, we should be grateful if you could confirm the likely publication date of the consultation. We also seek confirmation from you that funding for 16 to 18 year olds will be included in the proposals for reform.

We hope that we will see new proposals at an early date. The Committee may of course have to review its own course of action in relation to fairer funding if there is significant delay in publishing a new consultation.

i.e. get a move on otherwise we'll do it ourselves and tell everyone that you've been dragging your heels.

It's water off a ducks back though. Getting their hands slapped doesn't bother them at all...

Well...there's a fair number of backbench Tory MPs in the shires that have been promised a fairer deal for the past 4-5 years and I would imagine their patience might run out soon.

It;'s not an easy fix but has to be done at some point. The consultation for it was back in 2012!

[TechnicalEphemera]

Whatever I think of Corbyn, the line that the non Trident debate is bad news for him is a line worthy of Dan F Hodges not the Guardian.

It is an awesome result for him. If the debate had gone ahead then:

Either CND win, Cameron calls a vote, probably 70% of the Labour parliamentary party (including the shadow defence secretary) vote to renew Trident. Corbyn looks badly damaged.

Or the multilateralists win, Cameron calls a vote, Corbyn votes against Labour policy.

Now it is all a bit of a fudge, sure Trident gets renewed but it was always going to given the Tory majority.

He should however look very hard at the political judgement of those in his team trying to get a vote. I suggest he gets shot of them sharpish.

[LadyCentauria]

Half the papers are claiming Corbyn 'lost first battle' over Trident, although the Graun doesn't. Mail says Labour's launching a 'tax war' on the middle-classes. Daily Star says we're in for a two week heatwave. Yippee!

[RogerOThornhill]

Mail says Labour's launching a 'tax war' on the middle-classes.

The DT has the same.



You don't think they just simply made it up and would have come to the same conclusion whatever Corbyn or McDonnell said?

[LadyCentauria]

Mail says Labour's launching a 'tax war' on the middle-classes.

The DT has the same.



You don't think they just simply made it up and would have come to the same conclusion whatever Corbyn or McDonnell said?

I think they hastily searched for Piketty+tax and cobbled something scary together around the top result on Google. And, yes, that more or less translates as 'simply made it up,' Neither Corbyn nor McDonnell have spoken at Conference, yet.

The good news is that, in another paper but I didn't catch which one, Peston says that he doesn't need a tie for gravitas. Peston doesn't, that is. I don't understand why anyone does...

[LadyCentauria]

Well, that was well worth getting warmly wrapped up and going to sit/stand around, at the end of the square, in the cold cold air. The skies were crystal clear to give us, even here in leafy South-West London, a host of brilliant stars, nebulae, planets, and galaxies, along with that stunning moon at perigee, slowly turning from gleaming silver- and titanium-white through shades of gold, rose, ochre-red, to claret and burgundy. There were five of us out, and only we five - myself, my great friend from opposite, and her three teenaged sons - watching, and wondering, and quietly talking, and sharing silences, and teasing, and extra blankets, and my binoculars; and, as the eclipse slid into totality, making our silent secret wishes and simply staring at the wonder.

Then back to our homes to the thick, rich, vegetable soups we'd left simmering gently on our hobs - and knowing that we'd shared those moments with friends in other places (one of mine is in Kielder for the event, lucky man) and with millions of strangers, friends we've not yet met, around the world. A good way to share silly o'clock...

So, to all of you - my friends here -