Thursday 1st October 2015

[ohsocynical]

Afternoon.
I would like to ask anyone here, or elsewhere for that matter, who comes out with the phrase 'what Corbyn should have said' (or words to that effect) to put themselves forward and become elected as an mp.Then,having done that,win a clear mandate as party leader,maybe approximately 60% of eligible votes.Once they have done those things tell the present Labour party leader what to do/say/wear.
Anyway,on a much nicer subject,I've just cooked and eaten maple and hazlenut biscuits from Nigel Slaters new book.(Bought it for a friends Christmas present but have smeared butter and biscuit dough on it,so now it's mine).
Do have one or two.In all my biscuit eating years they are the most delicious I've ever eaten.

My bold. Accidently or on purpose?

Accidently,I am just a very messy cook,always have been.
I already have 3 Nigel Slater books,don't relly need another,but they feel so good to hold,cloth covered,nice paper.Oh well,now I've got four.
Funnily enough,I can't bear to watch him.Excrutiating,Don't really know why,I wonder if he is very shy underneath?
So sorry about all your troubles Mrs Ohso.As I understand it,being a carer myself,carers allowance stops if you are getting a state pension,even though you still do the caring.It's pretty shit really.I don't know if that applies to attendance allowance which is claimed by the person getting cared for.

That figures...I don't think they'd grant Mr Ohso an attendence allowance yet...Not judging by how ill my dad was before they granted his.

My daughter in law started collecting cookery books. I had an absolute field day in the charity shops...Some beautiful books without a mark on them that had cost well over twenty pounds when new and were being sold for a pound each. I had to stop in the end because she was running out of space for them.

Before I gave them to her, I went through each book, and copied the recipes I fancied into an exercise book. As I cook them, if they turn out as promised and are as good as they look, I transfer them with any adaptions I've made into a posher exercise book in my best handwriting and that's going to my youngest granddaughter after I've popped my clogs.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Looks like Telegraph readers agree with Corbyn:

Tom Pride ‏@ThomasPride 5h5 hours ago

The vote on whether you agree with Jeremy Corbyn on nukes is here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... rents.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Results so far: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQPS3GmWcAAJIci.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not sure that's the result they were expecting.

I had a look and now 86% agree.No doubt all the £3ers.

Probably software spawning clicks, or an organised bunch Corbynites. I assume there is a reason for papers running polls, data harvesting perhaps.

[ohsocynical]

Just updated on a live thread on the G:

Attorney general: 13 dead, 20 wounded

Oregon attorney general Ellen Rosenblum has NBC that 13 people have died, while earlier state police Lt Bill Fugate told KATU-TV that seven to 10 people were dead and as many as 20 others were injured.

Gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety has released statements from shooting survivors; the group notes that the Umpqua shooting is the 45th school shooting this year in the uS, and the 142nd school shooting since the Sandy Hook school shooting in December 2012.

“America is the only developed country where when someone asks if you heard about that campus shooting, you have to clarify ‘which one?’ That is unacceptable,” said Colin Goddard, a Virginia Tech survivor and Everytown advocate. “Something has to change. We need to all come together for the Umpqua families today.”

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live ... e1744a0150

The 142nd school shooting since Sandy Hook.

Unbelievable and no way out.

Very sad, yet predictable - which is even worse.

I've just read about it. Awful. Sadly though I think gun owning has gone too far for there to be any change for the better.

[citizenJA]

It's right to scrap Trident. But a virtual pacifist isn't the person to make that case.

Has to be a practical case, as the SNP have made.

(my bold)

You're likely correct about that.
It's jackass crazy though.
Cassandra syndrome.
A miserable waste of lives, time and resources waiting for the right media-ready leader selling sanity in a comfortable package instead of acknowledging we already know the truth and getting on with nuclear disarmament.

[Rebecca]

Looks like Telegraph readers agree with Corbyn:

I'm not sure that's the result they were expecting.

I had a look and now 86% agree.No doubt all the £3ers.

Probably software spawning clicks, or an organised bunch Corbynites. I assume there is a reason for papers running polls, data harvesting perhaps.

Blimey,don't you ever get tired of sucking lemons?So predictable.

[ohsocynical]

Looks like Telegraph readers agree with Corbyn:

I'm not sure that's the result they were expecting.

I had a look and now 86% agree.No doubt all the £3ers.

Probably software spawning clicks, or an organised bunch Corbynites. I assume there is a reason for papers running polls, data harvesting perhaps.

In the Telegraph? Oh please!

[Rebecca]

My bold. Accidently or on purpose?

Accidently,I am just a very messy cook,always have been.
I already have 3 Nigel Slater books,don't relly need another,but they feel so good to hold,cloth covered,nice paper.Oh well,now I've got four.
Funnily enough,I can't bear to watch him.Excrutiating,Don't really know why,I wonder if he is very shy underneath?
So sorry about all your troubles Mrs Ohso.As I understand it,being a carer myself,carers allowance stops if you are getting a state pension,even though you still do the caring.It's pretty shit really.I don't know if that applies to attendance allowance which is claimed by the person getting cared for.

That figures...I don't think they'd grant Mr Ohso an attendence allowance yet...Not judging by how ill my dad was before they granted his.

My daughter in law started collecting cookery books. I had an absolute field day in the charity shops...Some beautiful books without a mark on them that had cost well over twenty pounds when new and were being sold for a pound each. I had to stop in the end because she was running out of space for them.

Before I gave them to her, I went through each book, and copied the recipes I fancied into an exercise book. As I cook them, if they turn out as promised and are as good as they look, I transfer them with any adaptions I've made into a posher exercise book in my best handwriting and that's going to my youngest granddaughter after I've popped my clogs.

She will love it.
Had a good haul myself today.The first Charlie Parker book,I have every other one,a christmas book and four crystal wine glasses.I have a big old belfast sink with its own drainer,quarry tiled floor,and break no end of glasses,including a lovely set of victorian cranberry glass.Now I buy them from charity shops.

[ohsocynical]

And anyway. If it is Corbyn supporters, [and no I haven't voted in the poll] surely it shows they're happy with his views? And are entitled to voice their opinion?

[ohsocynical]

Accidently,I am just a very messy cook,always have been.
I already have 3 Nigel Slater books,don't relly need another,but they feel so good to hold,cloth covered,nice paper.Oh well,now I've got four.
Funnily enough,I can't bear to watch him.Excrutiating,Don't really know why,I wonder if he is very shy underneath?
So sorry about all your troubles Mrs Ohso.As I understand it,being a carer myself,carers allowance stops if you are getting a state pension,even though you still do the caring.It's pretty shit really.I don't know if that applies to attendance allowance which is claimed by the person getting cared for.

That figures...I don't think they'd grant Mr Ohso an attendence allowance yet...Not judging by how ill my dad was before they granted his.

My daughter in law started collecting cookery books. I had an absolute field day in the charity shops...Some beautiful books without a mark on them that had cost well over twenty pounds when new and were being sold for a pound each. I had to stop in the end because she was running out of space for them.

Before I gave them to her, I went through each book, and copied the recipes I fancied into an exercise book. As I cook them, if they turn out as promised and are as good as they look, I transfer them with any adaptions I've made into a posher exercise book in my best handwriting and that's going to my youngest granddaughter after I've popped my clogs.

She will love it.
Had a good haul myself today.The first Charlie Parker book,I have every other one,a christmas book and four crystal wine glasses.I have a big old belfast sink with its own drainer,quarry tiled floor,and break no end of glasses,including a lovely set of victorian cranberry glass.Now I buy them from charity shops.

Me too

[HindleA]

Yes.Carers Allowance is classified as a replacement income benefit,the same as the State Pension.Legally,you cannot have "two"I didn't know that it continued for eight weeks ,after my better half passed away,I also didn't know it that comes off the Benefit Allowance(Widow(er)Pension.

[ohsocynical]

Peter Smith ‏@Redpeter99 4 hrs4 hours ago

In other news, the South West branch of the National Union of Farmers is setting up a support group for badgers
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 74621.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

[ohsocynical]

Andrew Middleton ‏@ATMiddleton 2 hrs2 hours ago

83%+ agree with Corbyn and WHOOSH the poll vanishes. What's the matter @telegraph, not so fond of letting the people speak? @CNDuk

[citizenJA]

I voted for Burnham as my first choice for Labour party leader.

Current Tory government are a destruction machine.
I've read their legislation, seen their budget cuts, their incompetent billions wasted wasted on their projects that don't work - it's corruption in the form of giving taxpayer property away to Tory friends and family and the rest of the country has to pick each other up.
Whatever is left in 2020, if current Tory government manage to make it in government until then (the whole lot are so out of their depth, in my opinion, and likely controlled by substances, I wouldn't be surprised if Dave or Osborne or both have breakdowns on the floor of the House one fine day), the Labour party leader will receive the mandate and support of the electorate when returned to government.

Jeremy Corbyn is a fine Labour party leader.
It's good to disagree.
Take a step back, though, don't hold on to opinion so tight it clouds the excellent judgement I know we all usually exhibit.
I'm not writing this intending any condescension towards anyone.

[Willow904]

Corbyn is a pacifist, everyone knows this so there's no point pretending orherwise but that doesn't mean that the Labour party is about to adopt a nuclear disarmament policy. As long as the party remains committed to some kind of Trident renewal, it's less of a problem and more of a discussion. I didn't vote for Corbyn because I didn't want all this but now we've got him we might as well let him be himself as authenticity is his main draw.

Is he Willow? I thought he was a unilateralist but not a pacifist?

I bow to your superior knowledge. He's definitely a member of CND, though and he can't just pretend he isn't, that's my point.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Pacifist is close enough, I think.

As Robert says, it's only Corbyn who would have opened the subject up for discussion. On the other hand, he's too closely associated with "moral" arguments. The SNP have built a wide group against Trident, including people who see it in much more "bean counting" terms.

[ohsocynical]

Iain McNicol ‏@IainMcNicol 9 hrs9 hours ago Merton, London

Thanks to all who attended Labour Party conference - and to all who made it happen.

370,000 @UKLabour members. 10,474 joined during conf.

[citizenJA]

My daughter in law started collecting cookery books. I had an absolute field day in the charity shops...Some beautiful books without a mark on them that had cost well over twenty pounds when new and were being sold for a pound each. I had to stop in the end because she was running out of space for them.

Before I gave them to her, I went through each book, and copied the recipes I fancied into an exercise book. As I cook them, if they turn out as promised and are as good as they look, I transfer them with any adaptions I've made into a posher exercise book in my best handwriting and that's going to my youngest granddaughter after I've popped my clogs.

Beautiful!
I love your ideas, Ohso.
That's genius.

I make magnetic book markers out my collection of used rail tickets.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Simon Wren-Lewis on excellent form.

http://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2015/ ... d-gdp.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is just basic stuff that any good economic journalist should point out: see Ben Chu for example. I suspect it would also be what Robert Peston would point out if this was not all so political and the government were not breathing down the BBC's neck. The mediamacro problem is still very much with us.

[ohsocynical]

Pacifist is close enough, I think.

As Robert says, it's only Corbyn who would have opened the subject up for discussion. On the other hand, he's too closely associated with "moral" arguments. The SNP have built a wide group against Trident, including people who see it in much more "bean counting" terms.

Today I briefly listened to Radio 4 and heard someone 'off the street' in Edinburgh, who said if Labour promised to get rid of Trident she'd return to voting for them.

Snag is I suspect the BBC were being selective again.

[citizenJA]

Just updated on a live thread on the G:

Attorney general: 13 dead, 20 wounded

Oregon attorney general Ellen Rosenblum has NBC that 13 people have died, while earlier state police Lt Bill Fugate told KATU-TV that seven to 10 people were dead and as many as 20 others were injured.

Gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety has released statements from shooting survivors; the group notes that the Umpqua shooting is the 45th school shooting this year in the uS, and the 142nd school shooting since the Sandy Hook school shooting in December 2012.

“America is the only developed country where when someone asks if you heard about that campus shooting, you have to clarify ‘which one?’ That is unacceptable,” said Colin Goddard, a Virginia Tech survivor and Everytown advocate. “Something has to change. We need to all come together for the Umpqua families today.”

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live ... e1744a0150

The 142nd school shooting since Sandy Hook.

Unbelievable and no way out.

Very sad, yet predictable - which is even worse.

Truer words were never spoken, my friend, I agree with you.

[ohsocynical]

My daughter in law started collecting cookery books. I had an absolute field day in the charity shops...Some beautiful books without a mark on them that had cost well over twenty pounds when new and were being sold for a pound each. I had to stop in the end because she was running out of space for them.

Before I gave them to her, I went through each book, and copied the recipes I fancied into an exercise book. As I cook them, if they turn out as promised and are as good as they look, I transfer them with any adaptions I've made into a posher exercise book in my best handwriting and that's going to my youngest granddaughter after I've popped my clogs.

Beautiful!
I love your ideas, Ohso.
That's genius.

I make magnetic book markers out my collection of used rail tickets.

Well I was going to just leave her the original exercise book, but I've spilt things on it, scribbled things out, and my handwriting is so bad on some pages, I realised she'd have a job to decipher it...

[Tubby Isaacs]

Just updated on a live thread on the G:

Attorney general: 13 dead, 20 wounded

Oregon attorney general Ellen Rosenblum has NBC that 13 people have died, while earlier state police Lt Bill Fugate told KATU-TV that seven to 10 people were dead and as many as 20 others were injured.

Gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety has released statements from shooting survivors; the group notes that the Umpqua shooting is the 45th school shooting this year in the uS, and the 142nd school shooting since the Sandy Hook school shooting in December 2012.

“America is the only developed country where when someone asks if you heard about that campus shooting, you have to clarify ‘which one?’ That is unacceptable,” said Colin Goddard, a Virginia Tech survivor and Everytown advocate. “Something has to change. We need to all come together for the Umpqua families today.”

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live ... e1744a0150

The 142nd school shooting since Sandy Hook.

Unbelievable and no way out.

Very sad, yet predictable - which is even worse.

And even more sad, such a small minority of shootings.

Situation seems insoluble. Then again, if the murder rate in big cities can be turned around to the extent it was from the early 90s, then I suppose anything is possible.

[citizenJA]

Pacifist is close enough, I think.

As Robert says, it's only Corbyn who would have opened the subject up for discussion. On the other hand, he's too closely associated with "moral" arguments. The SNP have built a wide group against Trident, including people who see it in much more "bean counting" terms.

Today I briefly listened to Radio 4 and heard someone 'off the street' in Edinburgh, who said if Labour promised to get rid of Trident she'd return to voting for them.

Snag is I suspect the BBC were being selective again.

Yeah, I can believe that - what galvanises an electorate is not predictable.
Don't underestimate the UK electorate.
Corbyn being himself.
A Labour party MP working for regular people for decades with unimpeachable integrity.
Ed Miliband has unimpeachable integrity, too, though not decades in Parliament, but that's an aside.

[danesclose]

How would Germany or Sweden for example retaliate should a nuclear strike wipe them out?
We have to realise that we are not one of the "big boys" any more - we don't have an empire where the sun never sets any more.
We would be able to better protect the citizens of this country if we spent the money on conventional forces rather than give money to the Americans for a weapon system they control.
Were it to get to the stage where anyone would want to nuke us, then a nuclear war would almost certainly have already broken out.

Well said Danesclose.

The idea of nuclear retaliation in such circumstances is profoundly depressing.
Why murder thousands of innocent people more ? Out of hate or revenge, just because they are the 'enemy' ?

The point is not to do it, the point is that your opponent knows attacking you is pointless because they would also be wiped out. It may be dumb but it has kept the peace in Europe for a record length of time. If Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes (for a worthless security protocol) it would not now be under attack.

Germany sits underneath the US umbrella as does Australia. Sweden could probably be invaded by Russia any time they want, which is likely to be never. They are not a big target for non domestic terrorists either.

In fact the reply was to the narrow point we wouldn't be able to do anything if attacked, to show however pointless we could.

The modern point of nukes is probably as much about stopping really nasty nuclear or biological terrorist attacks being sponsored by rogue states (or elements within them). Which is why a far cheaper alternative to Trident would have been an option if Miliband had won. You probably only need a handful of land based missiles in holes in the ground.

All of which is moot. Labour has never won, and will never win on a unilateral platform. Just look at the massive lead the Tories have pulled out in polling on defence

People vote for leaders they think will do what it takes to keep them safe, and will do what it takes to make them (or keep them) financially secure.

Labour is already seeking (rightly in my view) to turn the economic argument around. By signing up to a no hope defence policy Corbyn has basically thrown away any chance of winning. Media air time (as we see already) will be dominated by Nukes removing space from the vital argument on the economy.

Plus Joe Public generally won't vote for a leader that they don't believe would do everything necessary to defend them. Absolutely the threats are imaginary, but they are also easily imagined. Kinnock, originally a CND supporter came to that conclusion after losing an election dominated by them, nothing substantial has really changed.

I'm afraid I don't understand why Germany would be considered to be under the US military umbrella but the UK wouldn't.
Europe has been reasonably peaceful over the past 50 years (Yugoslavian civil war excepted) but the rest of the world hasn't -if nuclear weapons are such a deterrent why did Argentina invade The Falklands?
I don't agree that the Labour defence policy is no hope - it is largely a question of correctly marketing the policy, for example making more of the fact that we are in the ludicrous position of having aircraft carriers with no planes, or having troops in Afghanistan with inadequate equipment.

[citizenJA]

Just updated on a live thread on the G:

The 142nd school shooting since Sandy Hook.

Unbelievable and no way out.

Very sad, yet predictable - which is even worse.

And even more sad, such a small minority of shootings.

Situation seems insoluble. Then again, if the murder rate in big cities can be turned around to the extent it was from the early 90s, then I suppose anything is possible.

I'm sorry President Obama hasn't achieved more than he has done in the US.
The last mass shooting at a school he appeared more grey than usual and said something like,
'This is [number of times] I've appeared at a school in the US with students and staff dead because someone with a gun killed them. I don't dig it. At all. We need to make these tragedies stop.'
Is the last seven years the best you could do, Sir?
I ask that not in an angry way at all.
I want to know if President Obama is really a good man, intelligent, competent and compassionate and what the US has is the best a good person could do.
It would pain me to find out it is.
It's not good enough for the US or the world and I don't like feeling defeated by what we can't vote for.

[citizenJA]

My daughter in law started collecting cookery books. I had an absolute field day in the charity shops...Some beautiful books without a mark on them that had cost well over twenty pounds when new and were being sold for a pound each. I had to stop in the end because she was running out of space for them.

Before I gave them to her, I went through each book, and copied the recipes I fancied into an exercise book. As I cook them, if they turn out as promised and are as good as they look, I transfer them with any adaptions I've made into a posher exercise book in my best handwriting and that's going to my youngest granddaughter after I've popped my clogs.

Beautiful!
I love your ideas, Ohso.
That's genius.

I make magnetic book markers out my collection of used rail tickets.

Well I was going to just leave her the original exercise book, but I've spilt things on it, scribbled things out, and my handwriting is so bad on some pages, I realised she'd have a job to decipher it...

An extraordinary gift, it's meaningful, Ohso, what you've described.
Invaluable gift you're creating.

I was making fun of myself with collection of ticket stubs and other memorabilia made into magnetic bookmarkers!

Let this be a lesson in what is valuable and who produces it and why a lot can never be 'off-shored and produced cheaply elsewhere'.
China, for example, can't produce what you've made.
Not ever.
Not for any amount of money.

UK producing steel used for UK wind turbines, rail infrastructure, transportation infrastructure...how much does it cost to lose thousands of experienced workers who get on their global bike and the UK loses their talent, experience and contributions? Stupid government. Let some other country poach their expertise. Stupid, stupid government. Thousand who don't leave but don't have a private trust fund. I know you're shocked, Chancellor Jeff, but it's true. People work for a living. Current government leave those people to languish because they've never had to think about what creates prosperity for a country. It's a circle. The well-paid workers doing quality work for gear everyone in the UK benefits from spend their wages in the UK, that supports other UK endeavours, pensions are paid into, we're healthy with a properly funded NHS built by people who're also well-paid doing quality work.

[citizenJA]

Simon Wren-Lewis on excellent form.

http://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2015/ ... d-gdp.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is just basic stuff that any good economic journalist should point out: see Ben Chu for example. I suspect it would also be what Robert Peston would point out if this was not all so political and the government were not breathing down the BBC's neck. The mediamacro problem is still very much with us.

Excellent work from Wren-Lewis, I agree.
I read his writing often.

[Willow904]

The 142nd school shooting since Sandy Hook.

Unbelievable and no way out.

Very sad, yet predictable - which is even worse.

And even more sad, such a small minority of shootings.

Situation seems insoluble. Then again, if the murder rate in big cities can be turned around to the extent it was from the early 90s, then I suppose anything is possible.

I'm sorry President Obama hasn't achieved more than he has done in the US.
The last mass shooting at a school he appeared more grey than usual and said something like,
'This is [number of times] I've appeared at a school in the US with students and staff dead because someone with a gun killed them. I don't dig it. At all. We need to make these tragedies stop.'
Is the last seven years the best you could do, Sir?
I ask that not in an angry way at all.
I want to know if President Obama is really a good man, intelligent, competent and compassionate and what the US has is the best a good person could do.
It would pain me to find out it is.
It's not good enough for the US or the world and I don't like feeling defeated by what we can't vote for.

Obama's gun law of 2013, in response to the school shooting in Connecticut in 2012, was defeated in the Republican dominated Senate. Connecticut subsequently tightened up its state gun laws in 2014, but I'm not sure how effective this has been.

[Eric_WLothian]

''Cancer patients are being forced to sell their homes and even eat less due to 'dire financial situation', poll reveals''

''A UK-wide YouGov poll commissioned by Macmillan Cancer Support questioned 2,011 adults with cancer – 122 from Wales – and asked about their financial situation over a 12-month period.

It found that more than a million people with cancer (42%) are struggling to keep up with their household bills and credit commitments.

Macmillan say the “dire financial situation” is caused because cancer treatment leaves many patients unable to work.

The charity is warning that potential upcoming changes to welfare provisions could leave many without the support they need.''
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/healt ... l-10168332" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Any chance the media could focus as much on serious issues like this as 'old lefty won't nuke millions' headlines ?

We've heard a lot about needing to be patriotic and singing and bowing to the Queen.
It's hard to feel love for a wealthy country that allows sick people to endure this sort of stress.

Always somebody (allegedly) ready to make a quick buck out of the situation:

In one of the deals, a business partner of Ms Thomson's bought a home in Stirling for £64,000 from a cancer sufferer desperate to move, before selling it to Ms Thomson for £95,000 the same day. Ms Thomson then received a 'cashback' payment of more than £28,000 from her business partner.
Neither the £28,000 payment, nor the fact that the business partner had owned the home for less than six months, was disclosed to the lender, which provided a mortgage based on a purchase price of £95,000. Under guidelines, the mortgage company should have been made aware of both details.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/137 ... urn false;

Thanks for keeping us updated about that Eric.
Nasty stuff, even if it may prove to be legal.

& nice to see you around again.
Hope you've forgiven me for going to the dark side in the leadership election !

Thanks for that. I was keeping my head down during the leadership debate - but not because of anybody on here.

The legality of the house-buying allegations isn't clear (to me, anyway). The solicitor was struck off for breaching Law Society guidelines but I assume that's not necessarily the same as breaking the law.
Whatever the legality of the alleged situation, the lack of morality is (imo) beyond doubt.

I see the FM has deployed the Manuel defence - "I knew nothing"!

[citizenJA]

And even more sad, such a small minority of shootings.

Situation seems insoluble. Then again, if the murder rate in big cities can be turned around to the extent it was from the early 90s, then I suppose anything is possible.

I'm sorry President Obama hasn't achieved more than he has done in the US.
The last mass shooting at a school he appeared more grey than usual and said something like,
'This is [number of times] I've appeared at a school in the US with students and staff dead because someone with a gun killed them. I don't dig it. At all. We need to make these tragedies stop.'
Is the last seven years the best you could do, Sir?
I ask that not in an angry way at all.
I want to know if President Obama is really a good man, intelligent, competent and compassionate and what the US has is the best a good person could do.
It would pain me to find out it is.
It's not good enough for the US or the world and I don't like feeling defeated by what we can't vote for.

Obama's gun law of 2013, in response to the school shooting in Connecticut in 2012, was defeated in the Republican dominated Senate. Connecticut subsequently tightened up its state gun laws in 2014, but I'm not sure how effective this has been.

Exactly so.
President Obama is probably doing his best.
<heavy sigh>

[citizenJA]

VW sold new cars with defeat devices in UK even after scandal broke in US

Carmaker says it has now halted sale of 4,000 diesel-fueled VW, Audi, Skoda and SEAT vehicles because they contain emissions-cheating software

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... es-sale-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh, thank you, VW!
Heroic save.
You wally.
Where's law enforcement, please?
Or do businesses selling illegal products posing a danger to the public health own the world and get to sashay their way through our environment without restraint?

[citizenJA]

Goodnight, everyone.
Keep love alive.
love,
cJA

[Tubby Isaacs]

Well said Danesclose.

The idea of nuclear retaliation in such circumstances is profoundly depressing.
Why murder thousands of innocent people more ? Out of hate or revenge, just because they are the 'enemy' ?

The point is not to do it, the point is that your opponent knows attacking you is pointless because they would also be wiped out. It may be dumb but it has kept the peace in Europe for a record length of time. If Ukraine hadn't given up its nukes (for a worthless security protocol) it would not now be under attack.

Germany sits underneath the US umbrella as does Australia. Sweden could probably be invaded by Russia any time they want, which is likely to be never. They are not a big target for non domestic terrorists either.

In fact the reply was to the narrow point we wouldn't be able to do anything if attacked, to show however pointless we could.

The modern point of nukes is probably as much about stopping really nasty nuclear or biological terrorist attacks being sponsored by rogue states (or elements within them). Which is why a far cheaper alternative to Trident would have been an option if Miliband had won. You probably only need a handful of land based missiles in holes in the ground.

All of which is moot. Labour has never won, and will never win on a unilateral platform. Just look at the massive lead the Tories have pulled out in polling on defence

People vote for leaders they think will do what it takes to keep them safe, and will do what it takes to make them (or keep them) financially secure.

Labour is already seeking (rightly in my view) to turn the economic argument around. By signing up to a no hope defence policy Corbyn has basically thrown away any chance of winning. Media air time (as we see already) will be dominated by Nukes removing space from the vital argument on the economy.

Plus Joe Public generally won't vote for a leader that they don't believe would do everything necessary to defend them. Absolutely the threats are imaginary, but they are also easily imagined. Kinnock, originally a CND supporter came to that conclusion after losing an election dominated by them, nothing substantial has really changed.

I'm afraid I don't understand why Germany would be considered to be under the US military umbrella but the UK wouldn't.
Europe has been reasonably peaceful over the past 50 years (Yugoslavian civil war excepted) but the rest of the world hasn't -if nuclear weapons are such a deterrent why did Argentina invade The Falklands?
I don't agree that the Labour defence policy is no hope - it is largely a question of correctly marketing the policy, for example making more of the fact that we are in the ludicrous position of having aircraft carriers with no planes, or having troops in Afghanistan with inadequate equipment.

I agree with you on that.

The SNP won much wider support when they put Trident abolition in the context of NATO membership. Sturgeon seems to be from a CND tradition, but works very closely with people who are from the "conventional weapons instead" school.

[RogerOThornhill]

I'm not going to quote it as the nesting is horrendous, but why is Australia "under the US umbrella" - they're not even in NATO.

I can understand it for Germany but Australia?

[Hobiejoe]

I'm not going to quote it as the nesting is horrendous, but why is Australia "under the US umbrella" - they're not even in NATO.

I can understand it for Germany but Australia?

A hangover from the Henry Kissinger SE Asia domino theory I suppose.

[utopiandreams]

,,, You are a good woman. You could have stood there and laughed at his desperation

I suspect it's what I'd have done...

I suspect that rr2 speaks with the voice of experience, ohso, and laughing at his predicament comes later. It rather depends on how much you fear where the onus, yes that is onus, falls. I am of course talking of cleaning up rather than creating the mess.

[utopiandreams]

Harry Truman wasn't a loony fantasist. He used two atom bombs.

Sorry to disagree, Tubby, perhaps not, but quite frankly even this is open to question, particularly the second.

[LadyCentauria]

Ms. and Mr.Riots - you are heroes. Thank you.
I hope you haven't got so cold/wet/constipated (Mr.R only, obvs) that you suffer unduly.

Wales has won - not easily, by any means; and no bonus points - so now we have to hope that England lose to Australia. And I do. Fervently.

Our lovely council - having done our kitchen out beautifully - is now upgrading the bathroom.
We have been in this flat for 5 years. I haven't had a bath for 5 years - we had just a shower.
Today, although all we have just a loo and a bath (no sink, no tiles, no flooring beyond screed) the boys said w could use the bath.

HEAVENNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cuppa, Private Eye, and an hour in peace with scented candles.
I am one happy, warm, steaming, Chanel (or is is aldehydes, howsllyofme?) fragranced woman.

I am also so grateful - I'd forgotten the therapeutic value of a good long soak it has been so long. I am now knackered.
Off to bed, so I'll miss QT - looking forward to your comments on it when I catch up tomorrow.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Congrats on winning the match And I'm so pleased for you that you have a bath, at last, and that you feel restored after testing it

Hope that Show is continuing to be good and is either mended, now, or well on the way to it. xxx