Saturday 10th & Sunday 11th October 2015

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 8:36 am

Morning.

Hard to find much in the Welsh press other than rugby.
If politics was rugby, we'd be the most politically conscious nation in the world.

Tucked away at the bottom of the page of the Western Mail online I found:

'Stealth' change in National Insurance regulations 'will see Welsh councils lose a further £60m from their budgets'

The news is creating further anxiety for those in local government as they struggle to meet current cuts''
Set to further worsen....“This bleak financial forecast is also expected to worsen in light of the UK Government’s introduction of Single Tier Pensions in 2016-17.

“As a result of this change, local councils will lose their National Insurance rebate which will directly create an unfunded and additional £60m of financial pressure for councils who have already seen their funding reduced significantly over recent years.''
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... s-10225362" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 8:37 am

Will see if I can find some good news.

edited to add:

Will this do ?

Joe Public ‏@jpublik 8h8 hours ago
The Sun has lost nearly 200,000 readers in last 11 months. Which is about 18,000 a month. That's a lot of readers

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 8:48 am

TE's wrong, Thatcher's still hitting the headlines even after all these years. People do seem to be interested in what she got up to.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 88636.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article also mentions that creep Kilroy-Silk, and the scuffle in the House in 1985 when he took a swing at newly elected Corbyn.

King of fake tan Kilroy-Silk boasted “I didn’t really hit him. If I had, he’d have stayed down.” Corbyn, even then, did not respond in the media.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:16 am

Morning. Most of Wales will be otherwise occupied today ... Mr Riots will be glued to the TV later on - I will be working and then preparing for another field trip.

Now to politics ...

Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 1h1 hour ago
Is the Remain camp trying to lose the EU referendum? Stuart Rose a very divisive figure. Makes it a Tory not a broad campaign

Does he have a point? I don't have a particularly strong recollection of public appearances by Rose except for a couple of QTs if I remember aright. Seem to have a rather grey, nondescript image in my mind ... a sort of John Major without any of the more exciting bits! But definitely Tory backing.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:19 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning. Most of Wales will be otherwise occupied today ... Mr Riots will be glued to the TV later on - I will be working and then preparing for another field trip.

Now to politics ...

Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 1h1 hour ago
Is the Remain camp trying to lose the EU referendum? Stuart Rose a very divisive figure. Makes it a Tory not a broad campaign
Does he have a point? I don't have a particularly strong recollection of public appearances by Rose except for a couple of QTs if I remember aright. Seem to have a rather grey, nondescript image in my mind ... a sort of John Major without any of the more exciting bits! But definitely Tory backing.

Yes - I remembered the bloke's name but couldn't remember why. He's hardly an outstanding public figure (not to me, anyway).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:20 am

Good morfternoon.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:20 am

yahyah wrote:TE's wrong, Thatcher's still hitting the headlines even after all these years. People do seem to be interested in what she got up to.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 88636.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article also mentions that creep Kilroy-Silk, and the scuffle in the House in 1985 when he took a swing at newly elected Corbyn.

King of fake tan Kilroy-Silk boasted “I didn’t really hit him. If I had, he’d have stayed down.” Corbyn, even then, did not respond in the media.

The public can browse the archive from 12 October by visiting margaretthatcher.org.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:20 am

I've just had a little flight of fantasy re 'if politics were rugby' ...

I'd be putting Cameron, IDS, Hunt and Gove in the direct path of some Labour bulldozers such as Tom Watson, Ed Balls (have to bring him back for such a match), Jarvis and anyone else with the required shoulder width and attitude.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:22 am

I had mixed feelings when hearing the announcement about Rose.
Tory yes, Osborne policy supporting yes, but his stint at M&S may gloss that over for many ?

Also, the grey persona may not be a bad thing when publicly contrasted against 'colourful' Nigel Farage.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:23 am

Good morning.

Been doing other stuff this week and shall likely be more tied up than once I was for the immediate future but have nevertheless been quickly catching up most days even when not logging in. Anyway rather than catching any news this morning I have decided to download a copy of Dave's conference speech and pick it apart. Yeah I've seen the odd article doing just that and indeed nothing could be easier than to make a mockery of it. I have to say that even after my reference to the biggest wolf tale I know of that Cameron's lack of self-awareness, or any awareness at all in the real world, is so extreme that it's a miracle to behold. Whoever it was wasn't kidding when they said he was a remarkable fellow. Remarkable, yeah, it's the fellow bit I find hard to swallow... 'And on that note, I thank God that I haven't a button nose.

Sorry I know that Jeremy has asked for no more gutter politics but ffs look who we have as our acting PM. But no I shall try to behave but first let me just state that striking a punch bag can be extremely rewarding experience especially if you imagine some blockhead in its stead but has no lasting effect. Besides the more you punch the thicker the skin becomes. Well that's what I imagine anyway, I mean, can you not spare a thought for the level of abuse that a poor Fat Dave must have received in his public school days. But let's not be fooled into offering our sympathies, such abuse either makes a man of you or turns you into one of most unfeeling and abusive of chaps, one who is neither aware of their actions or even believes they serve the greater good. Somewhere in that thick skull of his I can only conclude there lurks the tiniest of doubts otherwise he'd have sent his own kids to boarding school... I guess there is still time.

Anyway enough but not before one more chuckle. Yeah, yeah, Dave. KGB? I'm splitting my sides! Even if a pretty young David imagined such things, surely someone with even the tiniest of Prime Ministerial experience would think better of repeating such tales... 'And in Russia too. FFS HOW CAN I EVEN TYPE WHEN I'M LAUGHING SO MUCH? You really are a prize twat!

Sorry crying wolf, I got a little side-tracked there. All those blatant porkies at the Tory conference and the best you could do was throw in the odd joke in rebuttal of Ashcroft's claims. Well if someone came out with such slanderous material about me I wouldn't joke, I'd come out fighting, but still there nothing slanderous about it in your case, is there Dave?

I still haven't said what I had intended but allow me to deliver rather than promise something I may not yet achieve. In the meantime I have noticed the odd comment from this Guardian poster before, cmouse, but have been enjoying reading some of his, I think it a he, recent ones. (https://profile.theguardian.com/user/id/3331230) Enjoy.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:24 am

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/ ... 34x798.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:25 am

Now ... thinking about why Cameron might like a rather grey, nondescript figure leading the Remain campaign .... because if the Leave campaign wins he can point to Alan Johnson who is the better known / recognised figure - and Labour - as having not been good enough campaigners? It will be nothing to do with him and the Tories of course ... all that weak Labour's fault?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:31 am

HindleA wrote:http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/ ... 34x798.jpg

Gross !!!!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:31 am

I'm not sure we don't need more nondescript, grey people in politics.
The ones with so-called charisma seem to cause the problems.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:34 am

ohsocynical wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/ ... 34x798.jpg
Gross !!!!

Shows what a good tailor he has.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:41 am

Just posting something from the Cif poster cmouse's profile that UtopianDreams linked to.

''10 reasons Corbyn can win the next General Election even if it seems a mountain to climb right now.

1) Many people find him refreshing and different and importantly honest - they desperately crave a new politics. They like him even if they don't share his views.

2) 34 percent of people didn't vote last time. A vast majority of those will be young, poor and disenfranchised and inclined to vote Labour now there is a more clear moral choice. Sadly the Greens are going to suffer most from Jeremy Corbyn's win.

3) The popularity of the Scottish Nationalists and UKIP has peaked. They both can only go downhill from now on. The faster they both decline, the better Labour's chances improve. At the last election, Labour had the bad fortune to be hit by not one, but two tsunamis, yet still increased it's popular vote. That unlucky conjunction won't happen again, even with Lynton Crosby's dirty tricks.

4) The fixed-term parliament. This time Cameron and Osborne got very lucky, that the fixed election date coincided with a mild improvement in the economy. Remember, The PM cannot choose a date to go to the people. He just has to cross his fingers and pray. If he hits the cycle of the economy wrong and a major disaster and loss of confidence occurs, a political melt down could easily happen.

5) Europe. Before Corbyn a new Labour leader would have been forced to pander to the Europhiles and support Cameron. Now Corbyn can create as much cognitive dissonance and trouble as he likes, and wait to see how the dice falls. If the people vote No, then Cameron and Osborne are finished, and the Tory party will resort to outright internal war and chaos.

6) The NHS. The Tory made big promises at the last election yet people still don't trust them. If the NHS collapses, the Tory popularity will plummet. And Osborne has two unenviable choices. Does he fund THE NHS or does he stick to his deficit plans. One has to be written off. What he chooses dictates how much more The Tories can pretend to be center or right. They have to choose. What is certain is that a fudge won't work and the British people won't trust Osborne if he screws up on the deficit again. They have suffered enough. This time Labour will be offering a decisive alternative, we wont just be Tory lite.

7) Cameron's big mistake. And what a mistake it was to state he will throw in the towel, before the next election. Not only has it turned the next 5 years into a vacuum where everybody including the obsessed media, is thinking about his successor not him. He creates a perpetual circus of skullduggary, poison, infighting and dirty tricks. It's worse than Blair - Brown because there are several more Big Guns fighting for the Tory Crown, not just two. What it means is that through infighting, someone may not be at the controls of the plane when it's needed most.

8) The Tory's own complacency and arrogance over Corbyn. They really do think the next election is a breeze. Fatal last words.

9) The cuts haven't even begun to effect yet. Now they will and there is nobody else to blame but Cameron and Co. It's not just about the removal of Tax Credits hitting the working poor and millions of people. The councils are now cut to the very bone. You are going to see rubbish in the streets, libraries and care homes closed; a massive rise in crime, and much angry protest, We are going to see a Greece here but under a Tory Government, and no one else is responsible.

10) The magic number 12. The Tories only have a majority of 12! That takes only six or seven by-elections over 5 years for them to be forced out of Government. Isn't it time that rich living and even richer food and wine caused a few heart attacks. Remember John Major had a majority of over 20 in 1992 but that was whittled down to nothing in just 3 years.

Finally there you are, 10 excellent reasons Labour supporters have hope. And I haven't even mentioned The World Economy collapsing soon, something the IMF say is increasingly likely, with all the chaos and uncertainty in the world.

So if you are Labour, don't despair at the Tory bastards being in power. Just enjoy them squirm for 5 years hitting one pile of shit after another. By 2020, they will be trapped in a hole of their own making so deep, they will just eat each other like the rats they really are.''

Fingers crossed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:51 am

Somewhere about,there are similar photos/videos of myself of dishevellment,I claim to be following the running style of the great Zatopek,but in slow motion.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 9:56 am

That's a nice try at morale boosting by the poster, yahyah. But - even if one or two of those points were to happen - they will mean nothing if Labour isn't continuously building a credible alternative and reputation. Change comes mainly from dogged persistence and hard work. A bit of chance / flukery that casts a spanner in the wheel of the Tories will be very welcome ... but definitely can't rely on that. (One of their biggest (only?) skills seems to be evading accountability and getting out of scrapes they shouldn't be able to get out of.)

It's going to be interesting - especially the next two years or so as we approach the Assembly elections and then the Euro referendum.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 10:06 am

Stuart Rose: Businessman who backed immigration for cutting wages to lead campaign to keep Britain in the EU
Lord Rose said he believed that pulling out of the European Union would risk Britain’s prosperity
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 88561.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Patrick O'Flynn ‏@oflynnmep 25m25 minutes ago
I wonder how Lab "in" leader Alan Johnson will explain remain campaign being led by someone who likes the EU for keeping wages down?

See - it's started already.

The fingers should be pointing at Cameron ... but they're not.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 10:07 am

yahyah wrote:TE's wrong, Thatcher's still hitting the headlines even after all these years. People do seem to be interested in what she got up to.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 88636.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article also mentions that creep Kilroy-Silk, and the scuffle in the House in 1985 when he took a swing at newly elected Corbyn.

King of fake tan Kilroy-Silk boasted “I didn’t really hit him. If I had, he’d have stayed down.” Corbyn, even then, did not respond in the media.

I've never been knowingly fair to Thatcher before, but there's a first time for everything.

“hectoring, strident, bossy and dictatorial personality”

A man behaving the same way would be showing 'leadership qualities'.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 10:12 am

Caroline Flint Retweeted
Craig Bennett ‏@CraigBennett3 16m16 minutes ago
Heard @GregBarkerUK on @BBCr4today saying solar cuts "catastrophic"? Here's how 27k JOB LOSSES break down by region
https://www.foe.co.uk/blog/top-10-regio ... job-losses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 10:15 am

Craig Bennett
‏@CraigBennett3
Disgraceful that "no minister available" for #r4Today discussion on #SolarJobsCrisis when the 1000 jobs lost this week are just the start

Matthias Rosenberg ‏@maro1609 1h1 hour ago
Matthias Rosenberg Retweeted Craig Bennett
They're busy being the greenest government ever. Or something.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 10:30 am

yahyah wrote:Will see if I can find some good news.

edited to add:

Will this do ?

Joe Public ‏@jpublik 8h8 hours ago
The Sun has lost nearly 200,000 readers in last 11 months. Which is about 18,000 a month. That's a lot of readers

The decline in dead tree readership is remorseless and seemingly irreversible - how low might it have dropped by 2020, never mind 2025?

It is arguably getting to the point where the main problem now is the broadcasters (especially, of course, the BBC) still treating their output with reverence and all too often uncritically following their agenda. If that could somehow be changed........

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 10:40 am

I voted to stay out of the EU in the first referendum.
Then, up to a year ago although I've never liked the idea of being in, I thought it was best we stayed. Especially when it came to employment regulations and human rights.

We threw aside our traditional markets when we joined. I remember at the time reading about the effect it had on NZ and Australia and the other Commonwealth countries.
I assume we would lose a great deal of trade now by withdrawing from Europe? It's made me wonder why Osborne is cosying up to China. Is it because we're going to have to find new trading partners if we come out? Wouldn't that be out of the frying pan, into the fire?

I've never been sure about the freedom of movement issue and tended to look on it as a two way street, but now there is the refugee crisis caused by our meddling in the Middle East. They [refugees] shouldn't be the reason for us withdrawing. What happens if we exit and it goes pear shaped? Would we carry on blaming them? I suspect a lot would. And that would be very, very wrong.

In turn it's made me wonder about all the Brits that have taken advantage of open borders. I know there are a lot of them.
Would our exit affect their right to stay in a foreign country? If pinch came to tuck, are we ready for a big influx of ageing Brits who will be a drain on housing, SS benefits, NHS, and care facilities? Or won't they be a big enough problem to worry about?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 10:55 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:I've just had a little flight of fantasy re 'if politics were rugby' ...

I'd be putting Cameron, IDS, Hunt and Gove in the direct path of some Labour bulldozers such as Tom Watson, Ed Balls (have to bring him back for such a match), Jarvis and anyone else with the required shoulder width and attitude.

I second that, rr2. I also noticed his reference to playing hooker during his conference speech, I gather he also fancies himself as a tennis player. I don't know because I've never watched but suppose there must be some clips of him running too as there are still shots of him at it after all, but I must confess to wondering what his running is like. Did I ever mention that I once used to do a bit of long and middle-distance running but kept very quiet about it when I moved to North Wales, having been taken under an Olympian's wing as a young lad. It was all about the style, well not all but running style was a major feature. Met his daughter some years later, who I hadn't known of at the time, she was an Olympic swimmer too. Me a confirmed dope-head by that time.

Where was I? Oh yeah, hooker Dave. I wonder what his running is like, or kicking a ball for that matter or perhaps his throwing action is the more telling. Maybe I should confirm my suspicions and seek out some videos of David in action, we'll see. Whatever similar thoughts of Georgie Boy have just entered my mind, who somewhat reminds me of a young lad who used to come for walks with our family. Unlike all the other youngsters who would run off with the dogs and the other lads, climb trees and whatever, he would hold back with my wife and daughter who I was often carrying. Very courteous he was too, nothing against him per se, but he was a bit of a Mummy's boy, indeed very much so being as Dad had left them and he later became her carer. There was something very effeminate about him, his running and throwing style too. It transpired that he did grow up that way, not that our Chancellor of the Exchequer has, it's just my mental image of his running and throwing... and a little applied Fat Dave's way too.

I digress yet again, Cameron the hooker, I sometimes played hooker too not being the largest of players and hope you were treated in similar fashion to myself, Dave, especially when the scrum collapsed or were these just games lessons and nothing too fraught with real competition? I was usually the wing forward or openside flanker and quick to get stuck in. I'm sorry, Dave, I just cannot imagine you playing rugby, you just don't seem gutsy enough. Excuse me, there must have been some reason they called you Fat Dave!

Such are the Saturday morning musings of someone desperately craving a joint. I've still got a sore throat and nose infection after what must be going on a month since I gave up smoking. Got a flu jab next week, I suppose I should mention it to the nurse if I still have it by then.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 11:00 am

gilsey wrote:
yahyah wrote:TE's wrong, Thatcher's still hitting the headlines even after all these years. People do seem to be interested in what she got up to.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 88636.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article also mentions that creep Kilroy-Silk, and the scuffle in the House in 1985 when he took a swing at newly elected Corbyn.

King of fake tan Kilroy-Silk boasted “I didn’t really hit him. If I had, he’d have stayed down.” Corbyn, even then, did not respond in the media.
I've never been knowingly fair to Thatcher before, but there's a first time for everything.
“hectoring, strident, bossy and dictatorial personality”
A man behaving the same way would be showing 'leadership qualities'.

Exactly. It's why I'm not keen on women politicians. They have to take on masculine 'qualities', which defeats the whole object of the game.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 11:02 am

I'm sorry, talk about laugh out loud! IDS shortly followed by Georgie Boy after what I've been going on too. I'm absolutely beside myself!... 'And now I'm literally7 gasping for air! LOL.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 11:04 am

utopiandreams wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I've just had a little flight of fantasy re 'if politics were rugby' ...

I'd be putting Cameron, IDS, Hunt and Gove in the direct path of some Labour bulldozers such as Tom Watson, Ed Balls (have to bring him back for such a match), Jarvis and anyone else with the required shoulder width and attitude.
I second that, rr2. I also noticed his reference to playing hooker during his conference speech, I gather he also fancies himself as a tennis player. I don't know because I've never watched but suppose there must be some clips of him running too as there are still shots of him at it after all, but I must confess to wondering what his running is like. Did I ever mention that I once used to do a bit of long and middle-distance running but kept very quiet about it when I moved to North Wales, having been taken under an Olympian's wing as a young lad. It was all about the style, well not all but running style was a major feature. Met his daughter some years later, who I hadn't known of at the time, she was an Olympic swimmer too. Me a confirmed dope-head by that time.

Where was I? Oh yeah, hooker Dave. I wonder what his running is like, or kicking a ball for that matter or perhaps his throwing action is the more telling. Maybe I should confirm my suspicions and seek out some videos of David in action, we'll see. Whatever similar thoughts of Georgie Boy have just entered my mind, who somewhat reminds me of a young lad who used to come for walks with our family. Unlike all the other youngsters who would run off with the dogs and the other lads, climb trees and whatever, he would hold back with my wife and daughter who I was often carrying. Very courteous he was too, nothing against him per se, but he was a bit of a Mummy's boy, indeed very much so being as Dad had left them and he later became her carer. There was something very effeminate about him, his running and throwing style too. It transpired that he did grow up that way, not that our Chancellor of the Exchequer has, it's just my mental image of his running and throwing... and a little applied Fat Dave's way too.

I digress yet again, Cameron the hooker, I sometimes played hooker too not being the largest of players and hope you were treated in similar fashion to myself, Dave, especially when the scrum collapsed or were these just games lessons and nothing too fraught with real competition? I was usually the wing forward or openside flanker and quick to get stuck in. I'm sorry, Dave, I just cannot imagine you playing rugby, you just don't seem gutsy enough. Excuse me, there must have been some reason they called you Fat Dave!

Such are the Saturday morning musings of someone desperately craving a joint. I've still got a sore throat and nose infection after what must be going on a month since I gave up smoking. Got a flu jab next week, I suppose I should mention it to the nurse if I still have it by then.

I think Cameron got the Fat Dave tag because of the photos of him on holiday in Cornwall with a skimpy Minnie? Mickey? Mouse towel around his hips. Showed his middle aged spread off a treat. There were also a couple of other shots of him with 'man boobs'.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 11:10 am

ohsocynical wrote: We threw aside our traditional markets when we joined. I remember at the time reading about the effect it had on NZ and Australia and the other Commonwealth countries.

I'm not sure that's true for all the countries - there was a very important agreement called the Lome Convention which guaranteed free access into the EU from what they called the ACP countries (African, Caribbean, Pacific)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lom%C3%A9_Convention" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the business I was in, the countries that signed up to deliver into the EU a guaranteed quantity each year did very well out of it since the price they got from the EU was normally well above the world equivalent.

It actually led to some peculiar situations where some Caribbean countries would send us a raw product and buy back a finished product at world market price...and paid a lower price than they'd received. Quids in...

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 11:10 am

@ohsocynical

No, ohso, he was called Fat Dave by his peers at Eton, seriously.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 11:13 am

@RogerOThornhill

Yeah, Roger, not that I shall retract my thanks to ohso, but I had forgotten how she began her EU comment. I was agreeing with her closing statement regarding the returning Brits should we exit.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 11:30 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Caroline Flint Retweeted
Craig Bennett ‏@CraigBennett3 16m16 minutes ago
Heard @GregBarkerUK on @BBCr4today saying solar cuts "catastrophic"? Here's how 27k JOB LOSSES break down by region
https://www.foe.co.uk/blog/top-10-regio ... job-losses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

http://www.solarpowerportal.co.uk/marti ... fit_review

For anyone interested in solar power,
These blogs are usually very informative:

The industry has always agreed that a gradual, staged and clearly defined process for reducing the feed-in tariff was correct. However, what is now proposed is a sea-change, a damaging and abrupt change to a feedback loop we had all bought into and could make business decisions upon. As an engineer, I naturally find myself using engineer’s terminology to describe things. A feedback loop can be a tricky thing – get the control parameters wrong and everything can collapse. Right now I feel like the government has looked at a well-functioning feedback loop and rather than adjust it, is proposing a change that has the potential to act like my faulty loop – simply spiral the result to zero.
I care passionately about PV and have watched the UK industry grow from the start (my company Sundog Energy reached its 20th anniversary this year). I would like to see this growth continue and the UK PV industry prosper in the years ahead. PV is a fantastic technology and has a significant role to play in providing clean, renewable electricity for the UK. It can be deployed almost anywhere and there are still many, many more rooftops that should be turned into solar power stations. Please, if like me you care about the industry, do everything you can to engage in the debate over the proposed feed-in tariff changes – talk to your MP, talk to the trade bodies and engage in the debate.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 11:59 am

yahyah wrote:I had mixed feelings when hearing the announcement about Rose.
Tory yes, Osborne policy supporting yes, but his stint at M&S may gloss that over for many ?

Also, the grey persona may not be a bad thing when publicly contrasted against 'colourful' Nigel Farage.

A lot will depend on the coverage Farage gets on the BBC especially. They definitely helped UKIP get votes in May.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 12:08 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
yahyah wrote:I had mixed feelings when hearing the announcement about Rose.
Tory yes, Osborne policy supporting yes, but his stint at M&S may gloss that over for many ?

Also, the grey persona may not be a bad thing when publicly contrasted against 'colourful' Nigel Farage.

A lot will depend on the coverage Farage gets on the BBC especially. They definitely helped UKIP get votes in May.

The three party donors that he's up against - not many people know much about John Mills but Stuart Wheeler - made a fortune from spread betting, and Arron Banks, insurance.

M&S and now Ocado against spread betting and insurance....there's businessmen and there's businessmen...

Incidentally both Wheeler and Banks have funded both Tories and UKIP - makes them look like they're just people who take their ball home when they don't get their own way.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 12:10 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: We threw aside our traditional markets when we joined. I remember at the time reading about the effect it had on NZ and Australia and the other Commonwealth countries.
I'm not sure that's true for all the countries - there was a very important agreement called the Lome Convention which guaranteed free access into the EU from what they called the ACP countries (African, Caribbean, Pacific)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lom%C3%A9_Convention" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the business I was in, the countries that signed up to deliver into the EU a guaranteed quantity each year did very well out of it since the price they got from the EU was normally well above the world equivalent.

It actually led to some peculiar situations where some Caribbean countries would send us a raw product and buy back a finished product at world market price...and paid a lower price than they'd received. Quids in...

Am I remembering correctly though, that food exports from Au, and NZ were badly affected...Pretty sure diary products shot up in price as a consequence. I remember mother getting in a lather because she liked Anchor butter...It seems far fetched but that was in the days before we were used to eating exotic foods such as French cheese etc. And I do remember the source of affordable beef from Argentina drying up...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 12:12 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ent-budget" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour is to make a fresh attempt to overturn the cuts to tax credits introduced in the summer budget by tabling changes to the welfare bill due to be debated next week.

Cameron's claim that these cuts are compensated for with the rise in the minimum wage has been shot out of the water by pretty much everyone who has commented on them as people line up to point out that the overlap between people earning the minimum wage and people claiming tax credits is nowhere near as big as Cameron is suggesting. Childless couples working full-time on NMW will get some extra money in their pocket while a family struggling on higher part-time wages will be left in poverty, for instance. I'm quite curious to see whether Cameron will insist on pushing this through. Freezing tax credits makes more sense than cutting them, as people can adjust over time. Inflicting the pain early in the parliament is a political device that worked for Osborne last time, allowing him to be more generous before the election, but it's not sensible for the economy. Will he get away with such a sudden reduction of money circulating in the economy, given there are already signs that growth is starting to falter? Are Tory MPs willing to risk their party's reputation for economic competence for what is basically an ideological move to undermine the welfare state?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 12:20 pm

Corbyn had earlier visited the Daily Record office to meet the staff of the only major newspaper that backed his Labour leadership bid.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/jerem ... id-6608108" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 12:55 pm

Ironically, not long after Denis Healey dies, Geoffrey Howe has followed him

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 1:36 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
gilsey wrote:
yahyah wrote:TE's wrong, Thatcher's still hitting the headlines even after all these years. People do seem to be interested in what she got up to.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 88636.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article also mentions that creep Kilroy-Silk, and the scuffle in the House in 1985 when he took a swing at newly elected Corbyn.

King of fake tan Kilroy-Silk boasted “I didn’t really hit him. If I had, he’d have stayed down.” Corbyn, even then, did not respond in the media.
I've never been knowingly fair to Thatcher before, but there's a first time for everything.
“hectoring, strident, bossy and dictatorial personality”
A man behaving the same way would be showing 'leadership qualities'.
Exactly. It's why I'm not keen on women politicians. They have to take on masculine 'qualities', which defeats the whole object of the game.

No, most women in politics aren't 'strident' or 'bossy'.
Not all of female politicians adopt the qualities you don't like, Ohso.
Representatives in government must be made up of us all.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 1:37 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
gilsey wrote: I've never been knowingly fair to Thatcher before, but there's a first time for everything. A man behaving the same way would be showing 'leadership qualities'.
Exactly. It's why I'm not keen on women politicians. They have to take on masculine 'qualities', which defeats the whole object of the game.
If we had equal numbers of women politicians, it wouldn't be an issue. And equal numbers of women in the media, perhaps. Think of the background of many of the people who are sketchwriters and columnists now - from the days of long, boozy lunches at private clubs. They won't be around forever.

I happen to think that May's sudden lurch to the authoritarian right on immigration is an error, but we'll see.

(my bold)

Agreed.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 1:42 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/small-busine ... p-insomnia

Lying awake at 3am? Perhaps you should try biphasic
sleeping

Extensive research by historian Roger Ekirch shows humans have traditionally slept in two phases. In his book, At Day’s Close: Night in Times Past, he points to more than 500 references from historical texts that speak of dividing the night into two periods of sleep.
It appears it was common for humans to go to bed two hours after dusk, wake in the middle of the night for a couple of hours to smoke, talk, pray or even have sex, then go back to sleep until morning. It wasn’t until the 19th century that people began sleeping in one block.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 1:44 pm

danesclose wrote:Ironically, not long after Denis Healey dies, Geoffrey Howe has followed him

I'd imagine that the Tory tributes are going to be rather muted given his part in Thatcher's downfall (Ha! Sounds like a volume of Spike Milligan's autubiography.)

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 1:54 pm

tinybgoat wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/small-busine ... p-insomnia

Lying awake at 3am? Perhaps you should try biphasic
sleeping

Extensive research by historian Roger Ekirch shows humans have traditionally slept in two phases. In his book, At Day’s Close: Night in Times Past, he points to more than 500 references from historical texts that speak of dividing the night into two periods of sleep.
It appears it was common for humans to go to bed two hours after dusk, wake in the middle of the night for a couple of hours to smoke, talk, pray or even have sex, then go back to sleep until morning. It wasn’t until the 19th century that people began sleeping in one block.

I read that article last night and judging by the careers of the various "entrepreneurs" interviewed, the research must've been carried out in a coffee shop in Hoxton, but then again, it's The Guardian.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 2:11 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
gilsey wrote:
yahyah wrote:TE's wrong, Thatcher's still hitting the headlines even after all these years. People do seem to be interested in what she got up to.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 88636.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The article also mentions that creep Kilroy-Silk, and the scuffle in the House in 1985 when he took a swing at newly elected Corbyn.

King of fake tan Kilroy-Silk boasted “I didn’t really hit him. If I had, he’d have stayed down.” Corbyn, even then, did not respond in the media.
I've never been knowingly fair to Thatcher before, but there's a first time for everything.
“hectoring, strident, bossy and dictatorial personality”
A man behaving the same way would be showing 'leadership qualities'.
Exactly. It's why I'm not keen on women politicians. They have to take on masculine 'qualities', which defeats the whole object of the game.

Is being strong willed, decisive, argumentative, tenacious etc. masculine ?
Being a woman isn't all about speaking in a low tone and batting our eyelashes, much as that comes in useful sometimes.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 2:16 pm

Hobiejoe wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/small-busine ... p-insomnia

Lying awake at 3am? Perhaps you should try biphasic
sleeping

Extensive research by historian Roger Ekirch shows humans have traditionally slept in two phases. In his book, At Day’s Close: Night in Times Past, he points to more than 500 references from historical texts that speak of dividing the night into two periods of sleep.
It appears it was common for humans to go to bed two hours after dusk, wake in the middle of the night for a couple of hours to smoke, talk, pray or even have sex, then go back to sleep until morning. It wasn’t until the 19th century that people began sleeping in one block.
I read that article last night and judging by the careers of the various "entrepreneurs" interviewed, the research must've been carried out in a coffee shop in Hoxton, but then again, it's The Guardian.

Ha, ha, ha, Hobiejoe. Not read it yet but speaking as one who generally has only the one cycle, occasionally two I've figured out why the second. Forget the smoking, talking or even the praying, it's the having sex bit that gets you every time! Which reminds me, did I ever mention being woken one Sunday morning by the copper's wife after creeping in late one night with their lovely daughter? I was invited down for breakfast too... and there he was in full sergeant's uniform! That's back in the day when they used to dress up before going to work. Let's just say that the conversation with Dad was a little stilted although Mum seemed to smile a lot.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 2:19 pm

danesclose wrote:Ironically, not long after Denis Healey dies, Geoffrey Howe has followed him

Rhodri Morgan had an anecdote about them both in his column in the Western Mail today:

''This was on the very day in 1990 when Geoffrey Howe had made his historic “broken cricket bat” speech, which brought about Margaret Thatcher’s fall from power.

Denis had famously pooh-poohed Geoffrey Howe’s attacks as being akin to “being savaged by a dead sheep. Nevertheless on that day, Geoffrey Howe had come up with a knock-out punch.

Amazingly coming up the gangway steps towards Denis, myself and dozens of other MPs was none other than Geoffrey Howe.
As we all came within touching distance, us going down, Tories coming up.

Denis said: “Geoffrey, I didn’t know you had it in you!”

Geoffrey just smiled his shy little half smile and wedged his way past, knowing that on that day his place in history was secure. And I was there.''

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 2:37 pm

My worry is that this is actually deliberate. Osborne must know that the economy picking up towards the end of 2014 was a massive boost to the Tories in the GE, and if he can suppress the economy for a few years, could reverse certain cuts and produce artificially high growth in time for May 2020.

Make no mistake. It's exactly what he has planned.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 2:47 pm

tinybgoat wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/small-busine ... p-insomnia

Lying awake at 3am? Perhaps you should try biphasic
sleeping

Extensive research by historian Roger Ekirch shows humans have traditionally slept in two phases. In his book, At Day’s Close: Night in Times Past, he points to more than 500 references from historical texts that speak of dividing the night into two periods of sleep.
It appears it was common for humans to go to bed two hours after dusk, wake in the middle of the night for a couple of hours to smoke, talk, pray or even have sex, then go back to sleep until morning. It wasn’t until the 19th century that people began sleeping in one block.

I imagine lack of lighting meant quite a difference to sleeping habits in those days too. Many couldn't even afford candles.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 2:49 pm

Blair's always sold to us as some sort of saviour of the Labour party.

My impression, drawn from the way he gets eulogised, is that he single handedly boosted Labour in the polls from a very low position.

Interesting to see the reality via UK Polling Report archives.

Yes, Blair took Labour's polling well up into the 50 % range.

But Labour was already polling substantial leads over the Tories, up to the higher double figures, in the year and more before Blair was elected.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/historical ... -1992-1997" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 10 Oct, 2015 2:52 pm

Hobiejoe wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/small-busine ... p-insomnia

Lying awake at 3am? Perhaps you should try biphasic
sleeping

Extensive research by historian Roger Ekirch shows humans have traditionally slept in two phases. In his book, At Day’s Close: Night in Times Past, he points to more than 500 references from historical texts that speak of dividing the night into two periods of sleep.
It appears it was common for humans to go to bed two hours after dusk, wake in the middle of the night for a couple of hours to smoke, talk, pray or even have sex, then go back to sleep until morning. It wasn’t until the 19th century that people began sleeping in one block.
I read that article last night and judging by the careers of the various "entrepreneurs" interviewed, the research must've been carried out in a coffee shop in Hoxton, but then again, it's The Guardian.

I read about that a while back. Interesting, and weird, because ever since my mid forties I've woken at 2am or 1am depending on the the clocks going backward or forward...If I don't get to sleep until a half hour before, I'll still wake up....

I've sort of got used to it...But I get tired if I can't get back to sleep straight away.