Tuesday 27th October 2015

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 6:57 pm

seeingclearly wrote:I can see sometimes why Corbyn is so sparse with what he says. TBH, people out there seem to be listening to his words more because of it, and paying more attention to events than before. I'm surprised by this, after years of right wingers, naysayers and cybernats. Glad to hear the firemen so Union are thinking of reaffiliating. Activists have supported them a lot.

I'm coming around to that view. He just let the Lords get on with it and defeat the government.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:00 pm

Karl Turner MP ‏@KarlTurnerMP 6m6 minutes ago
Criminal Court fee stops the "guilty working the system" says #Tory MP Philip Davies. http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/mp-cou ... 10.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Thought you couldn't think worse of this MP ... think again.

... Shipley MP Philip Davies (pictured), a member of the committee, accused some of the groups of struggling to ‘differentiate between personal and political opinions and evidence’.

Addressing Frances Crook, chief executive of the Howard League for Penal Reform, who suggested that beggars convicted of minor crimes are subject to the charge, he questioned her evidence basis, adding: ‘You have no idea, you just made that up to be emotional.’

Davies acknowledged the concerns that innocent people are forced to plead guilty, but he asked what evidence existed of the scale of that.

The MP added: ‘Would you all say this is simply a one-way street?

‘Would you perhaps concede that if [the charge is] encouraging innocent people to plead guilty, there’s half a chance that it may actually be encouraging guilty people to plead guilty? Does it only apply to innocent people pleading guilty? Or would anyone concede there is half a chance that it may encourage people to plead guilty rather than trying to work the system?’

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:05 pm

seeingclearly wrote:I can see sometimes why Corbyn is so sparse with what he says. TBH, people out there seem to be listening to his words more because of it, and paying more attention to events than before. I'm surprised by this, after years of right wingers, naysayers and cybernats. Glad to hear the firemen so Union are thinking of reaffiliating. Activists have supported them a lot.

Yes, you're right about the silence Corbyn uses well.
Some leaders don't do it right, many get their words twisted when they do say good things, it's not fair, it's media.
It's important to know, if possible, when to leave it alone and when to pick it up.

Ed Miliband was good about having his shadow ministers speak when a issue concerning their post came up.
Ed Miliband, also an earnest man, maybe spoke willingly when quiet may have been louder, greater message - impossible to say, I'm not criticising. I'm trying to pay attention and learn.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:06 pm

Pathetic. Pathetic. Bunch of spoilt kids.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... its-defeat" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government sets up constitutional review after Lords tax credits defeat
Lord Strathclyde will chair ‘rapid review’ of relationship between two houses of parliament ordered by David Cameron

Can't even be bothered to get a Crossbencher to do it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:07 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:I can see sometimes why Corbyn is so sparse with what he says. TBH, people out there seem to be listening to his words more because of it, and paying more attention to events than before. I'm surprised by this, after years of right wingers, naysayers and cybernats. Glad to hear the firemen so Union are thinking of reaffiliating. Activists have supported them a lot.
I'm coming around to that view. He just let the Lords get on with it and defeat the government.

Snap!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:08 pm

Corbyn joining in now would be good.

Call them a bunch of spoilt kids.

Or maybe not. He's doing silence quite well.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:22 pm

I quite like the idea of their actions being the thing that defeats them. They really are starting to look hugely incompetent, and haven't even got their ducks lined up..... Boris today, though he may have his own reasons.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:23 pm

We e got a long time to go yet....

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:34 pm

I suppose we should be happy the media sort of had to report it...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:36 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10 ... 98640.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: Tory Guide to Defending Tax Credit Cuts.jpg (82.66 KiB) Viewed 7047 times

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:47 pm

seeingclearly wrote:We e got a long time to go yet....

The Manifesto has plenty more of this rubbish in it, don't worry. The childcare plan, the EU referendum, 5 year real term commuter train fares freeze...

Cameron boasted that the last will save commuters £400 a year. Let's assume he's lying, but if it's only £200 then that's a heck of a lot of money lost to the railways. Something will give here- more cash from the Treasury, some of that investment scaled back.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:53 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 10891.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

George Osborne’s chances of becoming Prime Minister have “just gone up in a puff of ermine-clad smoke”, the SNP has claimed.

Stuart Hosie, the party’s deputy leader, goaded the Chancellor in the wake of the defeat of his tax credit cuts plan in the House of Lords.

Being goaded by Hosie, who didn't seem to know Scotland's deficit was on top of the UK deficit. That's got to hurt.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:03 pm

Sunder Katwala ‏@sundersays 21h21 hours ago
Sunder Katwala Retweeted
Paul Nuttall to run for UKIP in Oldham West, reports @raheemkassam of Breitbart [ex-Farage chief of staff] " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

and just for good measure:

Otto English ‏@Otto_English 21h21 hours ago
Sunday Sport columnist Paul Nuttal. A man with all the brains and half the charisma of a stale Jacob's Cracker to run as UKIP MP #OldhamWest

Otto English ‏@Otto_English 7h7 hours ago
UKIP MEPS have voted against combating violence against women against moves to stop child trafficking & in favour of bludgeoning baby seals

Otto English ‏@Otto_English 7h7 hours ago
So I suppose voting to ensure you pay top dollar to mobile phone operators is fairly low down the list

They didn't get their way with voting against the end of roaming charges for mobile phones though ... that one got passed.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:12 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 9m9 minutes ago
One of the challenges the Tories have got is that on May 7th 2015 63.1% of electors did not vote for them.

It's why, no doubt, they are doing their damndest to make sure they trim and mold the electorate to better suit their purposes from this point on. Wonder how 'large' the electorate is going to be for next May's Assembly and local elections. Mind you - that ploy may not help them with the EU referendum election ... they probably don't want mainly 'oldies' on the electoral roll for that.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:29 pm

See below.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:32 pm

Correspondence between Paul Gray-Social Security Advisory Council and Lord Freud,regarding support fot mortgage interest changes,for those interested.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... c-comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-lack of info concerning return to 39 weeks especially those (vast majority) not expected to work -tough its happening we will keep it under review.

Heard Owen Smith,mention 2.9% interest.Cannot find out where he got that from.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:34 pm

ohsocynical wrote:I suppose we should be happy the media sort of had to report it...

A lot of people I know watched the debate, even six months ago they wouldn't have bothered, they'd just have read the headlines or it would have passed them by. The difference is in the demographic, working people, many of whom would identify with being middle class but with working class roots.

Anecdotal I know, but this was an industrial city, nearly everyone I know has those kind of roots, and even the ones with immigrant backgrounds who came here in the fifties onwards worked alongside everyone else. No one wants to see the kind of poverty we had then back again, there's a sort of ancestral resistance happening I think! Seriously though, a lot will be badly hit, they aren't talking much, but they are reacting and sharing posts they never would have before, and commenting on things they simply didn't engage with till recently.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:36 pm

It was only temporary for those expected to work,to be clear.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:42 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:We e got a long time to go yet....
The Manifesto has plenty more of this rubbish in it, don't worry. The childcare plan, the EU referendum, 5 year real term commuter train fares freeze...

Cameron boasted that the last will save commuters £400 a year. Let's assume he's lying, but if it's only £200 then that's a heck of a lot of money lost to the railways. Something will give here- more cash from the Treasury, some of that investment scaled back.

That is what I meant, well there's plenty of time for more destruction, but this time they are on their own. No srpace for complacency, to be sure, but they cannot maintain invisibility with these measures, they harm people's lives. Send them up paths that are damaging for us as a nation.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:58 pm

Iain Martin ‏@iainmartin1 14m14 minutes ago
10 ways to clean up the Tory mess on tax credits. (@montie latest for @CapX) http://www.capx.co/noWla" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; via @CapX

Good read. Yes really - especially bits like this.

5. Govern like you won 37% of the vote: Because that is all you won. Less than a quarter of eligible voters supported the Tories on 7th May – and many didn’t support the Conservatives but voted against Ed Miliband and the prospect of an SNP-Labour administration. Other than Louise Mensch – who seems to view the government like many teenage girls view One Direction – this is not yet a loved government. It will become a loved government if it delivers on the exciting one nation vision that David Cameron set out in his speech to the Manchester Tory Conference, only a few weeks ago. It’s hard to look like a one nation administration when people who are doing “the right thing” were facing cuts to their income of £1,000 and sometimes more.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:12 pm

Repeated kudos to Debbie Abrahams,for replyng to my requests for information via twitter.Neil Coyle is meeting Patel tomorrow regarding remedying ? delays for terminally ill DLA to PIP transferees.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:17 pm

And difference stance regarding change to loan from SMI,since the changing of the guard.Now,against in principle.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:27 pm

Bonnie Greer ‏@Bonn1eGreer 16m16 minutes ago Hammersmith, London
"Some exciting news to announce later this evening. 22:45, @lbc.-"@Nigel_Farage
Jeez...
#NigelFarage
#UKIP

Please tell me they aren't going to give him his own show ...

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:35 pm

Have I understood this right?

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2015/ ... my-status/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

China has argued that all World Trade Organisation members should grant it market economy status by 11 December 2016, under the terms of the agreement signed when the country joined the WTO in 2001. If China were to be granted market economy status then states would be prevented from imposing higher duties on imports from China in so called ‘anti-dumping’ cases.

Are China not dumping steel?

What's Cameron's view?

The UK is a strong supporter of conferring market economy status.

Doesn't sound likely to help the steel problem much.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:37 pm

He already has two,The Today Programme,and Question Time.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:57 pm

Chris Bryant MP ‏@RhonddaBryant 2m2 minutes ago
Really @EvanHD you could have let @LadyBasildon finish a sentence!

Yes - he could - but he didn't.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 11:02 pm

Bonnie Greer ‏@Bonn1eGreer 2m2 minutes ago Hammersmith, London
This is #NigelFarage's news?: "This Sunday at 10pm: @Nigel_Farage hosts his own show on @LBC".
Thought he already had a show on there...

Pathetic.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 11:53 pm

Lord Freud to Paul Gray: The Social Security (Housing Costs Amendments) Regulations 2015
It's late and I'm going to sleep but found the letter linked below from Lord Freud explicitly indicating the DWP does monitor people having applied and/or received or not received social security provision. I'll read it again when I've rested.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... t-2015.pdf

Goodnight, everyone, thank you.
love,
cJA

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 3:19 am

citizenJA wrote:Lord Freud to Paul Gray: The Social Security (Housing Costs Amendments) Regulations 2015
It's late and I'm going to sleep but found the letter linked below from Lord Freud explicitly indicating the DWP does monitor people having applied and/or received or not received social security provision. I'll read it again when I've rested.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... t-2015.pdf

Goodnight, everyone, thank you.
love,
cJA

I read that letter as saying that the Government will monitor the effect of the 39 wk wait when it is introduced rather than that they already monitor what happens to people in the 13 wk waiting period. We hear again and again that there is no regular monitoring of what happens to people who are refused Social Security benefits or who stop claiming - not even to find out why they closed their claims. I expect they'll just do some general surveys, get some feedback from witnesses to committees from 'relevant organisations,' and see if (more) people start turning up at MPs' surgeries with problems related to the change.

They don't seem to do any serious monitoring of how people are surviving during the many weeks it now takes between making a JSA claim and getting the first payment, either – when that is raised in committees or the House we tend to get one of the DWP ministers telling us that 'the reality is that' waiting times are coming down and will come down even further and that they take it very seriously. Same for ESA and other Social Security benefits - especially PIP...

And thanks for that superb post about Osborne etc.,

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 3:40 am

A very powerful story.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 10761.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 3:41 am

I know it's a daft time of night to ask but was wondering how @HindleA's mum is doing. Has she had her op and do they (and she) think it was successful?

In a similar vein, best wishes to @Toby Latimer, @Ephemerid, Mr. Ohso and anyone else who's going through it at the mo.

Back on topic: I'm proud of all the MPs who spoke against and voted against the Welfare Reform & Work Bill. Just really sad that it couldn't be defeated. Can someone remind me, please, what's the name of the site that lets you see how MPs voted but with the option to view the lists according to Party rather than just Ayes/Noes in alphabetical order? I've commented on the New Version of Hansard's feedback tool that I'd like to see that option there.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 6:20 am

LadyCentauria wrote:... Can someone remind me, please, what's the name of the site that lets you see how MPs voted but with the option to view the lists according to Party rather than just Ayes/Noes in alphabetical order? I've commented on the New Version of Hansard's feedback tool that I'd like to see that option there.

http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/divisions.php

Can't say I'd been there recently, LadyC, but for some reason the Lords' Divisions seem unavailable.

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