Wednesday 28th October 2015

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 12:21 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:All this talk of Radio Times has me humming ...

[youtube]FkGnPeBLB2k[/youtube]

Great - thanks! I'm now going to listen to "Jollity Farm". Has to be done . . .

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 12:24 pm

G'day all

Firstly, my thanks to @utopiandreams for answering my question last night. http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/divisions.php is the site I was looking for. I must have imagined that there was somewhere you could choose to view the Ayes/Noes list either as "by name" or "by party" - in the same way that you can view a product list by price ascending, price descending, most popular, newest, etc., You should certainly be able to do that within the new version of Hansard because they have the database of all MPs to query...

In other news, I'm wishing I hadn't tried to listen to/watch this mornings Work & Pensions Select Committee because on more than one occasion I shouted, "You fucking liar!!!" at IDS. And that was when I was being polite

Edit to add: ...and I'm only not-shouting at PMQs because I've given myself a sore throat and a slight headache. Good to see Jeremy Corbyn using persistent questioning today. Not that Cameron is capable of answering fully and truthfully. He will not guarantee that no-one receiving Tax Credits next May will be worse off as a result of his policies - either because he doesn't know, hasn't decided, or daren't admit that people will lose out. Had an email from the local LibDems (signed up to newsletters, etc., in the run-up to the election for information purposes) stating that HoC Library information shows that across two of the Constituencies in this Borough, 11,200 families containing 15,400 children will lose an average of £750 from Tax Credits which will only be partly mitigated by an average of £200 from the raising of the Tax Allowance/Threshold. I don't know why they only covered Battersea and Tooting but not Putney.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 12:24 pm

Even people normally critical of Jez seem to think he dominated a rattled PM today. Sensibly, he kept the "peoples questions" in reserve for another time.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 12:35 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Standard mortality figures show that people die anyway, he[Iain Smith] says.(Politics Live, Guardian)

Well, I never.

And people in hospitals particularly die anyway.

Funny, they didn't apply that to Mid Staffs....

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 12:44 pm

Cameron even had the cheek to talk about the 30 hours of childcare as if it were already available!

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 12:46 pm

Middlesbrough vs Cardiff City 20/10/15 - David Cameron Chant
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Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 12:51 pm

Good to see Yvette Cooper having a right go at Dave on Twitter.

Yvette CooperVerified account
‏@YvetteCooperMP
PM still doesn't get it #PMQs Refused 5x to say if families will be worse off. Still won't admit #taxcreditcuts are bigger than rise in pay

As others have said, despite refusing to serve with JC, she's very impressive at the moment and I hope they can find an accommodation soon.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 12:54 pm

Cameron can't answer because he hasn't a clue, he has to wait for Osborne to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:03 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Jonathon Hawkes @CllrJonHawkes

The Conservatives now admitting they think food banks are part of the welfare system. Here to stay under the Tories http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
10:57 AM - 28 Oct 2015 (Politics Live, Guardian)

It was the intention all along. In the USA when States are sorting out their budgets, food banks are now a part of it...They take the pressure off local and national government for looking after the poor.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:08 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Good to see Yvette Cooper having a right go at Dave on Twitter.

Yvette CooperVerified account
‏@YvetteCooperMP
PM still doesn't get it #PMQs Refused 5x to say if families will be worse off. Still won't admit #taxcreditcuts are bigger than rise in pay
As others have said, despite refusing to serve with JC, she's very impressive at the moment and I hope they can find an accommodation soon.

I think that will happen in due course, unless Jeremy Corbyn makes any enormous bloomers (which he shows no sign of doing). I think it's a political "courtship" - too hasty a union wouldn't have the desired effect on the electorate.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:12 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Standard mortality figures show that people die anyway, he says.

That's another poster right there.

The cold hearted, callous, spiritually deficient, lump of fucking shit...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:17 pm

To name his best qualities

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:18 pm

John Piennar said there wasn't much happening between Corbyn and Cameron today. BBC news headlines did manage to squeeze in the unelected and unelectable jibe though. That's alright then.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:19 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Standard mortality figures show that people die anyway, he says.

Humans, die, IDS. Humans.

Am I right in thinking his wife had breast? Cancer and he took six months off to look after her. I daresay they had someone in doing the housework, kids away at school, private health care etc...

Coping with cancer in the family is a whole new ballgame when you're working class.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:24 pm

So Mr Ohso had his polyp looked at on Monday. He actually has at least five and one of them looks suspect, so we're back on the uncertainty merry-go-round again.

I have at least managed to get the central heating sorted, cystern working properly - bliss - new bathroom radiator, and tap washer seen to. And wasn't overcharged. An added plus the plumber still wants first refusal when we sell. That's if the stress hasn't killed me first...I'm feeling decidedly shaky....

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:25 pm

ohsocynical wrote:So Mr Ohso had his polyp looked at on Monday. He actually has at least five and one of them looks suspect, so we're back on the uncertainty merry-go-round again.

I have at least managed to get the central heating sorted, cystern working properly - bliss - new bathroom radiator, and tap washer seen to. And wasn't overcharged. An added plus the plumber still wants first refusal when we sell. That's if the stress hasn't killed me first...I'm feeling decidedly shaky....

Well done getting all those jobs done and my thoughts with the Ohsos.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:29 pm

Did he have a separate bedroom and was it penalised;did his wife have to undergo an assessment ;referral for health "advice" and subjected to sanctions ;did he face income capping/reduction in income and have to explain himself.Such experiences,by such as he only make their policies more reprehensible,in my eyes.Honourable to them,a lifestyle choice subject to bemoaning and "behaviourial change" for us.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:32 pm

StephenDolan wrote:John Piennar said there wasn't much happening between Corbyn and Cameron today

Jeez, could he possibly be any more transparently obvious?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:32 pm

PorFavor wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
. And spent a vast sum of money on a brainwashing non existent bit of crap called Workie.

Craig Mackinlay, a Conservative, says he is very worried about the impact of auto-enrolment in company pensions for small employers. Small companies are very worried about this, he says. Some will just get rid of staff rather than bother with this.

Duncan Smith says he understands the “fear” this arouses. The DWP is running an advertising campaign trying to explain how the new rules will work.

The new pensions minister, Ross[sic] Altmann, is very interested in this, he says. (Politics Live, Guardian - my bold)
The explanation bit must have been too complicated for me to take in. Or it wasn't there. Has Iain Smith seen this monumentally intelligence-insulting piece of money-wasting rubbish?

Me too. He seemed to be saying that the Workie-ad is part of the campaign to educate small- and micro-businesses (people who employ maybe one person - a nanny/childminder or a carer/PA, perhaps) about how to deal with the new requirements on them. I saw the ad for the first time last night and it seemed to me aimed at employees - the nannies, the IT bloke. So, they'll go and ask the person who solely employs them about their workplace pension entitlement and the employer will learn about it through their own employees. Arse-about-face from arse-face who has his own arse-elbow problems...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:34 pm

Ah well I heard WATO refer to these new advisors that IDS is going to station in food banks as 'job advisors'. Tells me everything - and everything is not good.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:38 pm

Kate Collins @KitCollins
"The House of Lords behaved wrongly and deplorably and unnecessarily" - Lord Strathclyde on #taxcredits row #wato
1:10 PM - 28 Oct 2015

Glad he hasn't made his mind up already, what with him chairing a review.

This is incredible.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:41 pm

HindleA wrote:Think you have to go to a park and look for an 8.5 million pound monster,I don't know if replicas are being sent into every park.

Ha! Good one.

That might, indeed, be the answer. It's a novel delivery method for the DWP/HMRC Public Information department but perhaps shows they've finally learnt that not everyone has the internet, or knows where to look on it, or even that they need to look for something they don't know about...

(P.S. Has your mum had her op? Is she ok?)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:42 pm

Grayling says the Commons has voted five times for the tax credit changes. That is why the Lords votes were unacceptable.

Eh?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:44 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Kate Collins @KitCollins
"The House of Lords behaved wrongly and deplorably and unnecessarily" - Lord Strathclyde on #taxcredits row #wato
1:10 PM - 28 Oct 2015
Glad he hasn't made his mind up already, what with him chairing a review.

This is incredible.

It won't do them any good, though.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:45 pm

Fair play here.

Peter Bone, a Conservative, says Grayling’s last answer (see 12.59am) shows why the Lords was entitled to vote against this measure. If there must be a review, it should be carried out properly, he says

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:52 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Grayling says the Commons has voted five times for the tax credit changes. That is why the Lords votes were unacceptable.
Eh?

Inflation?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:54 pm

Strathclyde has to be seriously vulnerable in his position chairing this. Not just a Tory peer, but he's made his mind up already, and he isn't even a constitutional expert.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 1:58 pm

: Tory MPs Send Heidi Allen to Coventry.jpg (49.43 KiB) Viewed 6258 times

Michael Deacon ‏@MichaelPDeacon 4h4 hours ago
Heidi Allen gave a speech opposing tax credit cuts... and now other Tory MPs won't talk to her. HT @IsabelHardman

Worried their constituents might want them to actually speak out like her .... good grief, that won't do will it. Musn't be seen to be working on behalf of constituents and against the despicable party line.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:00 pm

Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 55m55 minutes ago
Chris Grayling admits that the Lords was NOT in error on voting down the tax credits SI because it was a welfare measure not a "money bill".

You wouldn't have known that from WATO. Martha Kearney kept calling it complicated ... and failed to explain that critical point ... obviously too complicated for her.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:03 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 55m55 minutes ago
Chris Grayling admits that the Lords was NOT in error on voting down the tax credits SI because it was a welfare measure not a "money bill".
You wouldn't have known that from WATO. Martha Kearney kept calling it complicated ... and failed to explain that critical point ... obviously too complicated for her.

Perhaps if it's complicated she could have someone explain it to her and her listeners. Alternatively, move along, nothing to see.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:07 pm

Guardian
Business live

Steel industry welcomes move on green taxes
Gareth Stace, director of UK Steel (the industry body) has welcomed the news that steel firms will soon benefit from lower energy costs (as David Cameron just announced).
The move could help could stem the recent surge in job losses that has struck the sector.

Stace says:
“This is a welcome commitment from the Prime Minister which reflects the urgency of the situation the sector is facing. The steel sector had asked for a full commitment to help offset the cost of high energy costs and, it now appears this will be given over the lifetime of the Parliament. This will give much needed confidence to the sector in terms of future investment. It is now essential that we seek state aid as soon as possible so that payments can begin immediately as promised. This will help provide the breathing space to help the sector through the current crisis.”

http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... 373ce97a22

'(as David Cameron just announced)'

Back in Westminster, the government has offered the beleaguered steel industry some help, as workers continued to demonstrate outside parliament. Prime Minister David Cameron told MPs that steel firms will soon be compensated for the green taxes that have pushed up their energy costs. It just needs the EU’s approval.

Cameron said:
"On energy costs, I can announce today that we will refund the energy intensive industries for the full amount of the policy cost they face as soon as we get the state aid judgment from Brussels. And I can confirm that payment will be made immediately and that payment will be made throughout this Parliament - far more generous than what has been proposed by Labour."

http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... 617b320242

Dave is getting what from Brussels, now?

Good-afternoon, everyone.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:08 pm

Debbie Abrahams ‏@Debbie_abrahams 4s5 seconds ago
Living wage week is 1st-7th Nov. @LivingWageUK will accredit living wage employers&announce the actual living wage, which I look forward to!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:10 pm

I suppose we've been lucky in a way.
Being pensioners we don't seem to be eligible for any extra help so at least I've been spared the tussle with red tape...Apart from getting our Blue Badge which is already helping no end....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:23 pm

Lady C,op seemed to go ok as far as pain goes,but not good last night/this morning.My dad 'phoned,she has been very weak and had difficulties getting her to bed,and other matters,which I won't go into.The doctors been,has a slight temperature,but has just 'phoned and says she is ok(she always says that though)and getting up.I feel a bit guilty in not staying there when she came out,but mum didn't even want my dad to tell me she was unwell.Its a difficult line to tread.I suppose they know I am not far away.Thanks for asking.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:24 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tory MPs Send Heidi Allen to Coventry.jpg

Michael Deacon ‏@MichaelPDeacon 4h4 hours ago
Heidi Allen gave a speech opposing tax credit cuts... and now other Tory MPs won't talk to her. HT @IsabelHardman
Worried their constituents might want them to actually speak out like her .... good grief, that won't do will it. Musn't be seen to be working on behalf of constituents and against the despicable party line.

How pissed off can they really be. She didn't abstain from voting for the tax credit cuts to some of the lowest paid people in the country. Heidi voted with her Tory party colleagues after a speech ringing with the sincerity and integrity we can expect from Dave Cameron's Tory government. None. We have zero sincerity and integrity action from any Tory government member. Nice Tory MP Syndrome. About as credible as Tory government's dedication to representing everyone fairly.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:25 pm

So not only do we now have suicide guidelines issued to job centre staff, but part of the 'system' is going to include DWP staff being posted at food banks. Both measures designed to mask the symptoms rather than address the cause.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:27 pm

Is that to help with suicide?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:32 pm

ohsocynical wrote:So Mr Ohso had his polyp looked at on Monday. He actually has at least five and one of them looks suspect, so we're back on the uncertainty merry-go-round again.

I have at least managed to get the central heating sorted, cystern working properly - bliss - new bathroom radiator, and tap washer seen to. And wasn't overcharged. An added plus the plumber still wants first refusal when we sell. That's if the stress hasn't killed me first...I'm feeling decidedly shaky....

My love to you both. I really hope that things will speed up (in terms of treatment) for Mr. Ohso. Now you've found a good plumber and have everything fixed up, please keep the house properly warm this winter and please ring up about the Warm Home Discount Scheme – Telephone: 0345 603 9439 (numbers beginning 0345 are charged at a lower rate than the ones that begin 0845 and are usually included in landline or mobile 'inclusive minutes.')

If you don't get the right types of Social Security benefits/Pension Credits (they'll tell you when you ring and most people have found the phone-line-people to be properly helpful) you should ask your own electricity supplier if you qualify for their own scheme (these differ from supplier to supplier) and, if you don't mind my suggesting it, please get yourselves put on all your utilities providers' 'vulnerable customers' lists/schemes because they'll come out more quickly in emergencies etc., which can be helpful, especially with all your health stuff going on. xxx

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:38 pm

HindleA wrote:Is that to help with suicide?

I'm sure that IDS would bring that in too if he had any thought that he would get away with it.

It might be an option on a revised ESA application form.

"Now that you have supplied all relevant details,do you wish to proceed with your claim ? (tick box A with black ink)

Or would you rather have a free trip to Switzerland ? (tick box B with black ink and have your passport ready) "

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:46 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tory MPs Send Heidi Allen to Coventry.jpg

Michael Deacon ‏@MichaelPDeacon 4h4 hours ago
Heidi Allen gave a speech opposing tax credit cuts... and now other Tory MPs won't talk to her. HT @IsabelHardman
Worried their constituents might want them to actually speak out like her .... good grief, that won't do will it. Musn't be seen to be working on behalf of constituents and against the despicable party line.

I wonder if that is what the question on bullying was about, it mentioned bullying in this house....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 2:50 pm

ohsocynical wrote:I suppose we've been lucky in a way.
Being pensioners we don't seem to be eligible for any extra help so at least I've been spared the tussle with red tape...Apart from getting our Blue Badge which is already helping no end....

The strain our health care system is placed under by current Tory government is nothing less than wilful, needless, intentionally destructive management in order to shape the NHS into some USA-style health care provision as business transactions.
And we know it doesn't have to be this way!
The NHS is the best! It's got that cost effectiveness thing going on though and shit, no one gets mega rich that way, tell another story and try to shout down the documented decades of excellence, the research proving over and over the NHS is good - better than the USA spending several times as much for worse outcomes.

I wouldn't have believed it if I weren't living through this, I swear, I would not have believed this.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 3:01 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:John Piennar said there wasn't much happening between Corbyn and Cameron today
Jeez, could he possibly be any more transparently obvious?

The line from Piennar told me everything.
Labour party is successfully opposing Tory government.
Good.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 3:02 pm

As Cameron referenced Internet filters is there any word regarding Rock's day in court?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 3:06 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tory MPs Send Heidi Allen to Coventry.jpg

Michael Deacon ‏@MichaelPDeacon 4h4 hours ago
Heidi Allen gave a speech opposing tax credit cuts... and now other Tory MPs won't talk to her. HT @IsabelHardman
Worried their constituents might want them to actually speak out like her .... good grief, that won't do will it. Musn't be seen to be working on behalf of constituents and against the despicable party line.
I wonder if that is what the question on bullying was about, it mentioned bullying in this house....

About my remarks about Tory MP, Heidi Allen.
I didn't stop a moment and think of what my friend, seeingclearly, has written here.
My post about Allen was gratuitously unkind.
I'm sorry.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 3:21 pm

: k.jpg (43.88 KiB) Viewed 6065 times

And then of course you have the Tories. Another species altogether. Born like it.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 3:25 pm

citizenJA wrote: I wouldn't have believed it if I weren't living through this, I swear, I would not have believed this.

I think most of us agree with you, I certainly do.
That's the reason I come here, to know that it isn't just me.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 3:32 pm

28/10/2015

Trussell Trust statement on Department for Work & Pension’s comments
about placing advisors in foodbanks

http://www.trusselltrust.org/resources/ ... -Smith.pdf

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 4:10 pm

Getting surreal,given a main reason for attendence is the (in)action of the DWP.

martinson · Post by **martinson** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 4:26 pm

Good afternoon.
I wonder if Ian Duncan Smith's 'advisors based in food banks' might also be able to monitor the food that those on benefits receive and could recommend a corresponding reduction in the cash due in their next benefits cheque whenever that is forthcoming. They could perhaps sit at a supermarket check-out till for speed of processing the claimants.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 28 Oct, 2015 4:42 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:So not only do we now have suicide guidelines issued to job centre staff, but part of the 'system' is going to include DWP staff being posted at food banks. Both measures designed to mask the symptoms rather than address the cause.

I think I might find it quite threatening to have DWP staff monitoring my attendance at food banks. At the very least they have to ensure that these staff are independent / impartial in some way. Suppose you're someone who has been so stressed out by your experience of the DWP that contact with them could tip you over some edge ... last thing you want or need is to go somewhere you thought of as a refuge - where people don't judge you or make you fill in endless forms etc - and find the same face you encounter at the job centre.