Saturday 31st October (Halloween) & Sunday 1st November 2015

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 6:23 am

Good morning.

Just thought I'd throw in an Americanism that's been adopted over here... and on that note since I've got to go shopping I mustn't forget to stock up on the treats. No sweeties from my household however, satsumas or the like. Time was old misery guts got eggs thrown at the front door or over my car, nowadays however they seem to appreciate getting something different to the norm. Not that the egg-throwers deserve anything mind, but I can't hold them all responsible.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 6:54 am

A peaceful Samhain to all

No sweets from my place, either. I used to make toffee-apples and hot chestnuts (no longer safe doing that) but nowadays it's fruit, nuts, and small coins.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 8:04 am

Morning.
Fortunately for us, mercenary minded children dressed in Tesco Halloween outfits haven't made it to the Welsh countryside. Will watch out for egg wielding sheep though.

Heard that 'carer supporting' Tory MP [Davies ?) being pompous about the hospital parking bill on Radio 4.
I wonder if he bothered to think about just how awful he would sound ?
He said he wished politicians wouldn't feel they had to take up causes. FFS.
Except when they are getting perks to lobby for big companies/other countries ?

Edited to add a comma to avoid an 'eats shoots and leaves' effect.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 8:14 am

Re; Davies. Two years ago this was being mooted

MPs face being banned from making long-winded speeches to block legislation introduced by backbenchers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... y-MPs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are time limits on other debates, often with the Speaker intervening to reduce or limit the allocated time from say. 5 to 4 minutes or whatever. I've never understood why this is allowed.

: ScreenShot00907.jpg (110.66 KiB) Viewed 11043 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 8:37 am

If I didn't already love Alan Bennett's work and style ... I would now for some of the comments in this.

Alan Bennett: Tories govern with 'totalitarian attitude'
Playwright speaks of approval for Corbyn saying Conservatives betray British tradition by wanting to be the ‘only party’
http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/o ... n-attitude" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He said in the same address to King’s College Cambridge: “There has been so little that has happened to England since the 1980s that I have been happy about or felt able to endorse. One has only had to stand still to become a radical.”

But he reserved his staunchest criticism for the state of British politics and the press, and attacked the Daily Mail for their coverage of Corbyn not singing the national anthem. “Half the royal family don’t even sing the anthem … they don’t even seem to know the words to Jerusalem. The notion that you are required to sing the national anthem in order to prove your patriotism, and if you don’t you’re not patriotic, is so absurd.”

“The lies on the front page of the Mail are so vulgar and glaring. Occasionally people say they like my work and then I see they have a copy of the Mail, and you think, ‘Well, how can you?’”

That's my bold there ... but it rings so true.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 9:06 am

Though Skinner used this tactiic which scuppered Powell's attempt to ban stem cell research.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 9:07 am

Have been reading about neuroscience, psychology, altruism and compassion.
Some of it helped make sense of what makes conservatives seem to lack humanity.

Will post about it later when I've more time.
Looks like a dry day so opportunity for a long walk, then Mr YahYah is having another go at baking.
Spiced carrot cake with cream cheese icing this time.

Also, I think there's going to be some poop hitting the fan next April, re private/company pensioners because of some changes that the Coalition introduced.
If I'm right, then it'll be another big group of people who will have a big grudge against the Tories. Again will post about it when have more time.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 9:45 am

I have a tale about hospital car park charges but less of that since I believe it was one of my early posts here describing an occasion where my patience was worn perhaps a little too thin putting it mildly. I must confess it has always been a bugbear of mine, not so much when I claimed ICA topped up with Income Support but after I gave it up for part-time work, especially the early days when I was much worse off, so much so that it was a difficult decision to make.

Anyway I just wanted to comment on some of the figures I've heard, which quite frankly seem unbelievable albeit varied for different trusts. Yes I can appreciate them adding up but isn't it the norm that weekly tickets are available at nominal rates? Which brings me back to where I started... when I first discovered that they were.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 9:49 am

Hello everyone - and Happy Samhain.

I have been a bit quiet (mainly because I'm still getting regular attacks of the pain, and having to rest up a lot) but popping in to see what you're all up to. Some good stuff, as ever, in recent days.

Shaker Aamer, detained for 14 years without charge let alone trial/conviction, comes back to his country of choice where he has indefinite leave to remain and where he was welcomed (?) by officials who, apparently, will be checking his immigration status.
Whatever he may have done - and we may never know what that is supposed to be - the facts are that he was captured by US bounty hunters paid to kidnap suspected insurgents/terrorists and send them to the US for incarceration with no actual charges.

Cameron has said that Aamer will not be detained here; what he will not confirm is whether he can remain here and/or will be monitored. Cameron launched the Gibson Enquiry into rendition and torture in 2010 - and shelved it in 2012.

I have no idea if Aamer is a suspicious person or a totally innocent bystander - but his kidnap, arrest, rendition, and detention were unlawful.
He is, apparently, in poor health at the moment.
I hope that Cameron apologises on behalf of his government for what happened to this man, and is pressured to re-instate Gibson so that we can find out what really went on in this case and others.
Meanwhile, I hope that Aamer is restored to health - and if he is compensated for this appalling episode, that he and his family can enjoy some comforts after years of uncertainty and fear.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 10:05 am

Funny how supposed "behaviourial change" only appears to suit the Governments agenda,because of course,enabling carers to provide transport to hospitals,including the consideration of penalisation for doing so,offsets alternative far more expensive options.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 10:33 am

Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 30m30 minutes ago
Beth Rigby Retweeted Robbie Gibb
Controlling the message: No 10 pulls Lord S from #Sundaypolitics. When was a Govt min last put up 4 @SkyMurnaghan?

Robbie GibbVerified account
‏@RobbieGibb
Lord Strathclyde, tasked by Government to review powers of the Lords pulled by No:10 from tomorrow's Sunday Politics

They must be worried the constitutional crisis story isn't going to cut it.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 10:45 am

Polling evidence suggests that is the case.

Oh, and the generally acknowledged fact the Lords did *not* actually "exceed their powers" of course.

Indeed, the reason they voted for the amendments they did - and not the LibDem backed "fatal" motion - was precisely so the government couldn't play that card credibly.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 10:59 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Polling evidence suggests that is the case.

Oh, and the generally acknowledged fact the Lords did *not* actually "exceed their powers" of course.

Indeed, the reason they voted for the amendments they did - and not the LibDem backed "fatal" motion - was precisely so the government couldn't play that card credibly.
Oh, according to LibDems it was a cop out, identical to the abstention in the Commons. And the fatal motion was 'doing Labour's job', not a piece of pointless and self-defeating grandstanding.

I just wish they could show a bit of humility.

I'm not sure many people are listening to them tbh.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 11:06 am

And in news you are no doubt anticipating with bated breath, our Labour heroine Kate Godfrey has been told by a heartless party establishment her services in Oldham W are not needed.

She has responded to this by asserting that she was "the best person to take on UKIP" (strangely, I didn't notice them doing worse than average in Stafford this May) and bigging up what a threat they are to Labour in this seat

It actually seems to be a tactic of quite a few Progress types at the moment to play the "SCARY UKIP - WOOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!" card (well it is Halloween, I suppose) as if all those "traditional Labour voters" are just thirsting for the party to put greater private involvement in public services at the heart of its agenda

As I alluded to yesterday, is it too much to expect the new Progress chair to put an end to some of this nonsense?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 11:12 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:And in news you are no doubt anticipating with bated breath, our Labour heroine Kate Godfrey has been told by a heartless party establishment her services in Oldham W are not needed.

She has responded to this by asserting that she was "the best person to take on UKIP" (strangely, I didn't notice them doing worse than average in Stafford this May) and bigging up what a threat they are to Labour in this seat

It actually seems to be a tactic of quite a few Progress types at the moment to play the "SCARY UKIP - WOOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!" card (well it is Halloween, I suppose) as if all those "traditional Labour voters" are just thirsting for the party to put greater private involvement in public services at the heart of its agenda

As I alluded to yesterday, is it too much to expect the new Progress chair to put an end to some of this nonsense?

Why on earth do 'Progress' / 'moderate' types imagine they are any better placed to see off Ukip than the rest of the Labour party? I've yet to see a case with evidence made for that assertion.

Serious question now ... is Alison McGovern different from what has gone before? I know very little about her.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 11:29 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:And in news you are no doubt anticipating with bated breath, our Labour heroine Kate Godfrey has been told by a heartless party establishment her services in Oldham W are not needed.

She has responded to this by asserting that she was "the best person to take on UKIP" (strangely, I didn't notice them doing worse than average in Stafford this May) and bigging up what a threat they are to Labour in this seat

It actually seems to be a tactic of quite a few Progress types at the moment to play the "SCARY UKIP - WOOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!" card (well it is Halloween, I suppose) as if all those "traditional Labour voters" are just thirsting for the party to put greater private involvement in public services at the heart of its agenda

As I alluded to yesterday, is it too much to expect the new Progress chair to put an end to some of this nonsense?
Why on earth do 'Progress' / 'moderate' types imagine they are any better placed to see off Ukip than the rest of the Labour party? I've yet to see a case with evidence made for that assertion.

Serious question now ... is Alison McGovern different from what has gone before? I know very little about her.

I would have thought a local councillor who voters are already familiar with would do better with the Ukip crowd anyway, given how xenophobic they are. An "outsider" would surely be the kiss of death!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 11:32 am

A favourite Alan Bennett line (though one, inevitably, of many):

"Do you do a nice poached egg on toast?"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 12:00 pm

@rebeccariots2

I'd just finished reading the Alan Bennett article when I saw your post. He sounds like a man I'd feel comfortable spending time with. He certainly has definite views on things, but has given them a deal of thought involving apparently honest self-appraisal and humour.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 12:00 pm

Good morfternoon.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 12:43 pm

Well. I've gone the whole nine yards for Halloween this year. It'll probably be the last before we move. I don't somehow think kiddies visit sheltered accomodation for trick or treats...And I love seeing the little ones all dressed up.

So I've got the giant spider I made, and bought a large cobweb in Aldi, for the grand sum of 89 pence. I've made lanterns out of jam jars and have carved a pumpkin. The girls are coming around later to help me set it up in a tree in the garden so that it's scary, but safe.

Am giving out both sweets and a piece of fruit. It's only once a year.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 12:50 pm

PorFavor wrote:@rebeccariots2

I'd just finished reading the Alan Bennett article when I saw your post. He sounds like a man I'd feel comfortable spending time with. He certainly has definite views on things, but has given them a deal of thought involving apparently honest self-appraisal and humour.

Have you read his book Untold Stories? I've also got the short storys that were turned into a series.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 12:57 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote: Serious question now ... is Alison McGovern different from what has gone before? I know very little about her

Member of the 2010 intake - I have rated her for a while, and Corbyn seemingly did so enough to offer her a SC place (as McDonnell's number two, reportedly) which she only turned down after some agonising. She has a blog which generally comes across as thoughtful and intelligent, and refreshingly free of the grandstanding some Progress types indulge in.

Will hopefully attempt to turn the organisation in the direction of constructive criticism but also (when merited) support of the leadership, rather than hyping themselves as some bombastic "resistance" movement. Of course some of the "ultras" won't take kindly to this, so there could be interesting times ahead.......

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 1:01 pm

ITV news report: Boris Johnson in firing line for pensioner death after fire station closure

http://www.fbu.org.uk/news/2015/10/bori ... n-closure/

It's about time politicians were made to answer for their bad decisions...

That poor old lady...

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 1:13 pm

ephemerid wrote:Hello everyone - and Happy Samhain.

I have been a bit quiet (mainly because I'm still getting regular attacks of the pain, and having to rest up a lot) but popping in to see what you're all up to. Some good stuff, as ever, in recent days.

Shaker Aamer, detained for 14 years without charge let alone trial/conviction, comes back to his country of choice where he has indefinite leave to remain and where he was welcomed (?) by officials who, apparently, will be checking his immigration status.
Whatever he may have done - and we may never know what that is supposed to be - the facts are that he was captured by US bounty hunters paid to kidnap suspected insurgents/terrorists and send them to the US for incarceration with no actual charges.

Cameron has said that Aamer will not be detained here; what he will not confirm is whether he can remain here and/or will be monitored. Cameron launched the Gibson Enquiry into rendition and torture in 2010 - and shelved it in 2012.

I have no idea if Aamer is a suspicious person or a totally innocent bystander - but his kidnap, arrest, rendition, and detention were unlawful.
He is, apparently, in poor health at the moment.
I hope that Cameron apologises on behalf of his government for what happened to this man, and is pressured to re-instate Gibson so that we can find out what really went on in this case and others.
Meanwhile, I hope that Aamer is restored to health - and if he is compensated for this appalling episode, that he and his family can enjoy some comforts after years of uncertainty and fear.

I hope the whole family will eventually find some peace, and time out of the spotlight too. It is said to be hard to adjust after such traumatic events, and that the family have also gone through a lot. And I really hope that there will be generosity for them all, not just financial recompense.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 1:16 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Why on earth do 'Progress' / 'moderate' types imagine they are any better placed to see off Ukip than the rest of the Labour party? I've yet to see a case with evidence made for that assertion.
They see it as a simple, binary left vs right thing, where the further left you are, the less likely you are to appeal to Ukip voters. Which completely misses the point about why Ukip appeals to traditional, working class Labour voters IMO.

I do hope Progress can be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

Too many genuinely appear to see the "white working class" as cardboard cut out flag waving, monarchy worshipping, immigrant resenting drones (for example the deeply unmourned Tom Harris, who produced a spectacularly awful Torygraph piece along those lines recently)

The idea some might actually vote Labour motivated by such things as economic exploitation and even (heaven help us) social justice seems to totally escape them.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 1:58 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@rebeccariots2

I'd just finished reading the Alan Bennett article when I saw your post. He sounds like a man I'd feel comfortable spending time with. He certainly has definite views on things, but has given them a deal of thought involving apparently honest self-appraisal and humour.
Have you read his book Untold Stories? I've also got the short storys that were turned into a series.

No, I haven't - I'll seek it out since it (presumably) carries your recommendation. Thanks for pointing me to it.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:02 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Why on earth do 'Progress' / 'moderate' types imagine they are any better placed to see off Ukip than the rest of the Labour party? I've yet to see a case with evidence made for that assertion.
They see it as a simple, binary left vs right thing, where the further left you are, the less likely you are to appeal to Ukip voters. Which completely misses the point about why Ukip appeals to traditional, working class Labour voters IMO.

I do hope Progress can be part of the solution and not part of the problem.
Too many genuinely appear to see the "white working class" as cardboard cut out flag waving, monarchy worshipping, immigrant resenting drones (for example the deeply unmourned Tom Harris, who produced a spectacularly awful Torygraph piece along those lines recently)

The idea some might actually vote Labour motivated by such things as economic exploitation and even (heaven help us) social justice seems to totally escape them.

I have tried to work out why Ukip supporters think Farage is somehow different. The only thing I can come up with is the fact he never went to university at all, let alone Oxbridge. In which case, Martin Amis attacking Jeremy Corbyn for being 'uneducated' could prove to be helpful.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:05 pm

While on Alan Bennett:

On Wednesday we went to see 'Walk in the Woods', the film based on Bill Bryson's books about walking the Appalachian Trail. Can recommend it, it was fun even though the reviews weren't very good. Nick Nolte was great as Katz.

One of the films trailed was 'The Lady in the Van' about the woman who spent twenty years living on Bennett's car parking space.

It looks good, Maggie Smith playing the lady in the van. Not sure who it is playing Bennett.
The wonderful Frances de Latour is also in it.
The trailer is here " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[youtube]WlN1b0ok4D0[/youtube]

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:07 pm

Halloween never really made an entry into my life except in one respect. When my boys were much younger we lived in a small village and it was all mop, nighttime lantern festival and raggy blackface Morris dancers, then we moved and it became nighttime allotment festivals and woodland walks, and a lovely runup to Divali in a very mixed area with a huge Gurdwara. But it's a special day today as it's my grandsons birthday, nineteen today and his first birthday away at uni. For all the odd reasons that can keep grandparents away from their grandchildren I've only been able to watch him grow up from a distance, but live in hope that we'll get a chance to know each other better.

Lovely memories of other years, but not a single where trick or treat featured. The best the year when my small child was enchanted by the process of a wonderful rangoli artist and became her chief helper. I'd give my eye teeth for the video of it that I know was made, but we never got to see. Mostly for the moment the artist lifted him out of the rangoli and he saw for the first time what they had been making.

Whatever you celebrate today, or even if you don't, have a good weekend.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:07 pm

I got chatting to the district nurse earlier, how f*cked up is this ? -

Each visit, whether from a registered nurse (the ones with university degrees) or from another tier, i.e. from a 'care assistant' or a 'nursing support worker' (who have just a little more training than care assistants) - each visit is costed at £50.00, I don't know who charges it, who pays (i don't) or who gets the fee but fifty quid it is, regardless of how long the visit.

Some patients have an in dwelling catheter with a leg bag which periodically might need changing, or a stoma which the use might not be able bodied enough to change personally, so up until recently the district nurses have been making scheduled visits to patients who require this.

These type of visits from NHS nurses are being phased out, instead the care agency staff from private companies such as Care UK (now Mears Group), Virgin Heathcare etc who would normally visit to help wash, dress and feed people are being trained up to perform these tasks.

The cost is extra to the patients care plans ('service users' as they call us) so the cost is now attributed to the patient. Not £50.00 but £13.00. If a patient is having to meet these costs every day then it can soon mount up.

I have a regular girl from Care UK (all these companies are big Tory donors btw) who does my 'domestic' twice a week - nipping around with the vacuum, change the bedding, cleaning kitchen, ironing and that sort of thing. Paid for by the Notts County Council social services. She was only telling me a few days ago she had a new visit on her rota which when she arrived needed the catheter replacing, although she knew how to she hasn't officially been trained, if anything went wrong it would be on her shoulders, so she had to call her employers office then sit and wait until they could find someone capable to replace her. This happens on a regular basis.

Other patients rather than pay £13.00 per visit are putting it off, waiting a day or so extra - this results in infection, sometimes serious kidney infection. The patient is then hospitalized at great cost.

The £50.00 saving by not having an NHS nurse in the first place is now in some cases costing thousands. False economy.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:12 pm

Corbyn didn't go to University and wants to lose tuition fees; the Tories got funneled through the likes of Eton into Oxbridge (which get more funding than other UK unis) and want to tuition fees as high as poss.

Speaks volumes to me. Principle versus Ladders, pulling them up. etc

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:13 pm

Indeed.Toby.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:19 pm

It cost a £100 for the ambulance that last week,for an obviously not needed appointment.The private company has zero reason to pass such information on to their drivers,kerching.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:21 pm

We are beyond the point of no return, it is no longer universally free at the point of delivery.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:29 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: They see it as a simple, binary left vs right thing, where the further left you are, the less likely you are to appeal to Ukip voters. Which completely misses the point about why Ukip appeals to traditional, working class Labour voters IMO.

I do hope Progress can be part of the solution and not part of the problem.
Too many genuinely appear to see the "white working class" as cardboard cut out flag waving, monarchy worshipping, immigrant resenting drones (for example the deeply unmourned Tom Harris, who produced a spectacularly awful Torygraph piece along those lines recently)

The idea some might actually vote Labour motivated by such things as economic exploitation and even (heaven help us) social justice seems to totally escape them.
I have tried to work out why Ukip supporters think Farage is somehow different. The only thing I can come up with is the fact he never went to university at all, let alone Oxbridge. In which case, Martin Amis attacking Jeremy Corbyn for being 'uneducated' could prove to be helpful.

I always thought it was the pint that seemed to be glued to his hand, and being photographed a lot outside pubs. Someone who would stop them being turned into poncey wine bars, who you could share a drink with and would ensure that British traditions would be preserved. Who didn't act as if he was better than them. That's quite a broad pull. I always wondered whether he would have gone down so well if he was younger and prettier. Another possible Corbyn plus. Neither of them sound plummy, and I think voice plays quite a big part in things. It's where Ed lost out.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:35 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Corbyn didn't go to University and wants to lose tuition fees; the Tories got funneled through the likes of Eton into Oxbridge (which get more funding than other UK unis) and want to tuition fees as high as poss.

Speaks volumes to me. Principle versus Ladders, pulling them up. etc

I did Oxbridge and support tuition fees.

I would much rather spend money on schools. See Scotland for evidence of where prioritizing university over schools gets you

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:36 pm

So Any Answers has just finished. At the beginning Anita Anand ran through the topics that had been discussed on Any Questions that callers would be responding to .... she said that the programme had discussed whether Jeremy Corbyn would last long as leader given his approval ratings have dropped (apparently). She then said the programme had had a flurry of calls and emails pretty much all in favour of Corbyn. I waited for some of these to be read out - or returned to in the programme. Not a further mention. Was that it then? Not judged to be the right kind of response so didn't get aired? I don't get it.

Good to hear someone who will be directly affected by tax credit cuts ring in and explain why they are so necessary for his family.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:39 pm

On a different note, I had a nice chat with Virgin customer services earlier. I haven't been keeping top side of my paperwork for the last few weeks, feeling I'll has that 'can't be arsed' effect. So it came as a great shock that Virgin have scrapped my 'customer loyalty' bonus of £10 per month off of my bill , and to raise the cost of the package to £48.00 a month from 37.00. I would be lost without the internet, and phone - I would have to use one of the leeches anyhow, and as I don't have a BT landline it would incur yet more expense to change. Upon hearing my pleas, the Virgin chap reduced the cost back to £37, reinstated the loyalty bonus, and waived the next two months bills as a goodwill gesture. It pays to complain sometimes.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:42 pm

I think Corbyn's age - non Eton or Oxbridge attendance - and his so called beigeness but with just the right amount of little foibles (the vests, the hat, the bad jacket, bike clips, the biros in the shirt pocket etc) can act in his favour. They sort of add up to reassuring Dadness with a little bit of eccentricity. They also seem totally at odds with the screaming ab dabs that Cameron and co seem to have about him being a threat to national security, etc etc.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:45 pm

Good to hear Toby.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:49 pm

Detention centre where elderly Canadian died in shackles 'too dangerous'
Doctor who treated Alois Dvorzac before his death in February 2013 says she tried to raise the alarm over his treatment at Harmondsworth
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... -dangerous" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The government should be investigated for breach of human rights in keeping this place - and others like it - going.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:49 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:So Any Answers has just finished. At the beginning Anita Anand ran through the topics that had been discussed on Any Questions that callers would be responding to .... she said that the programme had discussed whether Jeremy Corbyn would last long as leader given his approval ratings have dropped (apparently). She then said the programme had had a flurry of calls and emails pretty much all in favour of Corbyn. I waited for some of these to be read out - or returned to in the programme. Not a further mention. Was that it then? Not judged to be the right kind of response so didn't get aired? I don't get it.

Good to hear someone who will be directly affected by tax credit cuts ring in and explain why they are so necessary for his family.

Cameron's personal ratings have notably dropped in recent weeks. Has that been mentioned anywhere?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:56 pm

Smithson tweeted this yesterday
Before ComRes applied its turnout model in latest phone poll for the Mail - LAB had small lead.

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howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:57 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Corbyn didn't go to University and wants to lose tuition fees; the Tories got funneled through the likes of Eton into Oxbridge (which get more funding than other UK unis) and want to tuition fees as high as poss.

Speaks volumes to me. Principle versus Ladders, pulling them up. etc
I did Oxbridge and support tuition fees.

I would much rather spend money on schools. See Scotland for evidence of where prioritizing university over schools gets you

Is it an either or?

What gets me is not 'tuition fees' as a concept - a contribution is not necessarily a bad thing in my view - but £9K per annum with also the Coalition saying that you didn't need to fear them because no-one was actually going to pay them back

A debt of nigh on £50K on leaving university? And this from a Government who make a play on 'not leaving debts for the next generation'!!!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 2:59 pm

Badgers to cull Britain’s Tories
A systematic cull of Britain’s Tory population looks set to go ahead after senior badgers brushed aside objections from scientists and conservationists. Badgers have been arguing for years that the cull is necessary to protect Britain’s dairy farms from diseases like xenophobia and a poor grasp of basic science. Having rejected as inhumane a plan involving copies of the Daily Telegraph laced with strychnine, the badgers instead will use specially trained badger marksmen and intend to reduce the Tory population by one third over two years.

“We understand that the public have a nostalgic affection for Tories,” said the spokesbadger for the Department of Rural Affairs, “so we promise not to shoot that scruffy blonde one in London that everybody likes.”

The prospect of gun-toting badgers roaming the House of Commons worries some, but farmers are delighted. “I had a Tory on my farm last week,” said one frustrated landowner, “and since then the cows have been jeering at the sheep and telling them to go back home to where they came from. I had to have the whole herd destroyed.” ...

There's more where that came from - http://edinburghflipside.com/badgers-to ... ns-tories/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Editing to add: the last 2 paras are pure brilliance ... I haven't reproduced them here so you have to go and look for yourselves.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 3:05 pm

Afternoon all

I have often wondered when this will get raised again by the Tories and how this collection of money will ever put much of a dent in the 'problem'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... eremy-hunt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am a foreign resident - have been for 9 years. However, I am a British citizen, have an NI number, have an NHS number, have access to bills with my parent's address on etc. I also know some expats who pretended to have a lost driving licence so had a duplicate before they exchanged one

As the UK has no residency proof and no-one in officialdom knows I have left the country - how would I be prevented from exploiting the system?

In order to do this the NHS will have to put in place quite a large bureaucracy and also the UK would have to have some form of residency monitoring (ID cards anyone) - without this it will not work. Other countries have both in place usually so proving residency is straightforward

When I mention this to people at home I get the 'it isn't meant for people like you' with the meaning that entails! I imagine a good proportion of this 'health tourism' is from people like me, in fact I know of quite a few people who do this.....

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 3:37 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:I got chatting to the district nurse earlier, how f*cked up is this ? -

Each visit, whether from a registered nurse (the ones with university degrees) or from another tier, i.e. from a 'care assistant' or a 'nursing support worker' (who have just a little more training than care assistants) - each visit is costed at £50.00, I don't know who charges it, who pays (i don't) or who gets the fee but fifty quid it is, regardless of how long the visit.

Some patients have an in dwelling catheter with a leg bag which periodically might need changing, or a stoma which the use might not be able bodied enough to change personally, so up until recently the district nurses have been making scheduled visits to patients who require this.

These type of visits from NHS nurses are being phased out, instead the care agency staff from private companies such as Care UK (now Mears Group), Virgin Heathcare etc who would normally visit to help wash, dress and feed people are being trained up to perform these tasks.

The cost is extra to the patients care plans ('service users' as they call us) so the cost is now attributed to the patient. Not £50.00 but £13.00. If a patient is having to meet these costs every day then it can soon mount up.

I have a regular girl from Care UK (all these companies are big Tory donors btw) who does my 'domestic' twice a week - nipping around with the vacuum, change the bedding, cleaning kitchen, ironing and that sort of thing. Paid for by the Notts County Council social services. She was only telling me a few days ago she had a new visit on her rota which when she arrived needed the catheter replacing, although she knew how to she hasn't officially been trained, if anything went wrong it would be on her shoulders, so she had to call her employers office then sit and wait until they could find someone capable to replace her. This happens on a regular basis.

Other patients rather than pay £13.00 per visit are putting it off, waiting a day or so extra - this results in infection, sometimes serious kidney infection. The patient is then hospitalized at great cost.

The £50.00 saving by not having an NHS nurse in the first place is now in some cases costing thousands. False economy.

Another case like it, Toby. About 10% of Pernicious Anemia patients cannot metabolise the b12 injections that are used to treat it, leaving them with ongoing Neuro damage. The advice is to treat such patients symptomaticly, some need them two or three times a week others once a month it varies. District nurses used to give these injections, more recently delivery of injections has been allocated to practice nurses, and GPs now charge to the patients name £15 for an injection, even though the nurse is employed anyway. So GPs who misguidedly believe they are dealing with anaemia are rationing treatment for what is an autoimmune disease affecting the gut. If you are one of that 10% then you are at risk of spinal cord degeneration, loss of mobility, double incontinence, dementia and what was once called megaloblastic madness, a kind of state of being unable to care for yourself, and more. The formulary list price for the injection is 55p. It is non toxic and no known cases of overdose have ever occurred. It is a condition which affects older people in particular, though it can occur in young people. In those older patients it looks like dementia, but is reversible. The testing for it is flawed, and there are guidelines to cover that. But patients are routinely are being denied this very cheap, very effective treatment and are being investigated for everything from MS to dementia. Even worse, this can be triggered by use of gas and air in the delivery room, won't manifest immediately, and in other operative cases including dentistry. Untreated it is linked to thyroid insufficiency and diabetes.

There's been a petition going through the Scottish Parliament for a while now, it's been raised in the HoL, but it's still almost impossible to get treatment. It's even featured in the BMJ. False economy only just begins to describe it.

A whole years treatment even at the most frequent dosing costs less than it costs for a few weeks of treating MS, which it mimics quite well. (Even more than that if treated early it completely reverses any damage and only requires maintenance treatment. If you don't treat then the damage becomes permanent.) Except for that £15 charge.and insurers who advise GPs that injections are a dangerous invasive procedure and to only treat according to test results (testing is a whole other very dire story of false economy) The nurse btw will not come to your house, you will have to attend surgery appointments. I won't even go into the cost of caring for someone with dementia. And they won't show deficient on testing if they have been taking a multivitamin with folic acid. So they can be missed completely.

It could all be avoided by teaching people to self inject. (After all diabetics do this routinely and are using insulin which does have high risks.) And paying attention to non-anglophone countries that have made it available because it is common sense to do so.

Of course if you are a celebrity and you just want to use it because you have a punishing tour schedule you can buy treatment privately, anything up to about £300 a shot. Or if you are well off go to an unqualified diet therapist for about £75 an appointment.

A recent letter to Hunt to raise the issue in the commons resulted in a generic letter about rare diseases, and how the government is looking into them. (It's not rare, it's 10% of people with a fairly common condition.) predictably one of the five points in this generic letter was about the government tackling rare diseases in order that people can continue to work!

Between us there's a few crazy examples, so how much more of this is there? My guess is a huge amount. It's only when you bump into such nonsense that you get to see it.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 3:40 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Corbyn didn't go to University and wants to lose tuition fees; the Tories got funneled through the likes of Eton into Oxbridge (which get more funding than other UK unis) and want to tuition fees as high as poss.

Speaks volumes to me. Principle versus Ladders, pulling them up. etc
I did Oxbridge and support tuition fees.

I would much rather spend money on schools. See Scotland for evidence of where prioritizing university over schools gets you

Is it an either or?

What gets me is not 'tuition fees' as a concept - a contribution is not necessarily a bad thing in my view - but £9K per annum with also the Coalition saying that you didn't need to fear them because no-one was actually going to pay them back

A debt of nigh on £50K on leaving university? And this from a Government who make a play on 'not leaving debts for the next generation'!!!

I don't support them at the English levels, but at the Welsh ones (just over £3k), and exemptions for people from lower income families.

It's not necessarily either or, but equally I don't think you can spend too much on schools. London's experience from the early 2000s onwards show what extra money can achieve with schools. So much so that I think they're in a virtuous circle now, and could actually cut some money and maintain standards.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 3:41 pm

Anyone know where Plaid's extra 1000 doctors are coming from?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 31 Oct, 2015 4:01 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:On a different note, I had a nice chat with Virgin customer services earlier. I haven't been keeping top side of my paperwork for the last few weeks, feeling I'll has that 'can't be arsed' effect. So it came as a great shock that Virgin have scrapped my 'customer loyalty' bonus of £10 per month off of my bill , and to raise the cost of the package to £48.00 a month from 37.00. I would be lost without the internet, and phone - I would have to use one of the leeches anyhow, and as I don't have a BT landline it would incur yet more expense to change. Upon hearing my pleas, the Virgin chap reduced the cost back to £37, reinstated the loyalty bonus, and waived the next two months bills as a goodwill gesture. It pays to complain sometimes.

I've been with Virgin forever, and the longer you are with them the more you seem to have to pay. I need to be able to use my phone anytime and pay through the nose for the privilege, and like you would be lost without the internet. I haven't used a tv or accessed scheduled programmes by any other device for over two years, tried to drop that part of the package which they said would lose me the package so I'd have to buy evening and weekend phone only plus Internet for more than I now pay.When I quibbled and pointed out advertised packages was told I not eligible because I not a new customer! So I'm still paying for tv I don't use. And through the nose.

Shouldn't there be some rules about this stuff? I stick with them because it's a good internet service but await the day when more people use Internet telephony instead.