Saturday 21st & Sunday 22nd November 2015

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 8:20 am

Morning.

Brrr...cold here this morning, but at least the sun has made an appearance again after nearly two weeks of grey and wet.

Heard on Radio 4 that the Daily Mail has an editorial about the Tory bullying story.
That sounds like Mail are not going to let it go, despite other media people telling us it's a non story because no one has heard of the people involved. The Mail has called him 'Cameron's chum' so Toby Young's denial efforts have been in vain.

The Sun, under a totty shot of a poor lass unable to find a dress to cover her frontage, has the headline ''Exclusive: Scandal Deepens. Tory Bully's Sex Cover Up''.
Unfortunate though that it's the word sex that seems to have provoked the front page splash, not the suicide of a young man.

So, the pressure mounts. At least the young man's family may be closer to finding out what went on. Maybe we'll fnd whether bullying was just the tip of the iceberg.
'The Tories have descended into a morass of scandal and sordid allegation' say the Mail.
Nothing new there then.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 8:41 am

Ok, this is in the Mail, but even they have occasionally been right on somethings.
Alleged threats of menace.

In a separate development, another whistleblower has received a terrifying threat just hours after making similar allegations about sex, drug-taking and the blackmail of MPs to Downing Street.
A friend of the party activist took a sinister call saying: ‘If you don’t shut her up, we will.’

The stark warning from an unnamed man came less than 24 hours after she had written a detailed letter to party chairman Lord Feldman and No 10, accusing Mr Clarke of compiling dossiers on four Tory MPs after ‘pimping out’ young activists to sleep with them.
The whistleblower said she sent a 2,000-word email spelling out the allegations about Mr Clarke – which included snorting cocaine – to Lord Feldman on Monday afternoon, and also passed it on to the Prime Minister’s office.
She said: ‘The following day, a friend of mine received an anonymous call from a man who quoted part of my letter to her, so it had clearly gone straight back to Clarke or to one of his henchman. Then he warned: “If you don’t shut her up, we will.”

Hopefully the media will spend as much effort on demanding to be told who exactly in the Tories knew about her letter containing allegations of alleged wrongdoing as they did on writing about Ed Miliband's bacon sandwich.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:13 am

Two years ago today we were reading about the handing in of a petition to hold IDS to account over his dodgy statistics.

Anything happened yet ?

: ScreenShot01066.jpg (76.14 KiB) Viewed 9553 times

https://www.change.org/p/work-pensions- ... atistics-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: ScreenShot01065.jpg (106.86 KiB) Viewed 9553 times

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ho ... te-2809297" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:15 am

Morning yayah and all.

I got a flavour of just how disgusting some of the details might turn out to be when I read that allegedly Clarke and co had a phrase for their tactics at events - 'Isolate, enebriate, penetrate'. Lovely.

Of course, CCHQ say they have no record of any of these complaints, none of them. I wonder if they somehow got cleared out by the same IT staff they hired to get rid of their web record which might annoyingly show up the gaping difference between what they said back then and what they did when they could.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:19 am

& worse, from the Guardian:

Police are examining claims that a Conservative activist was subjected to a blackmail plot just days before he was due to give the party evidence against a former parliamentary hopeful suspected of sexual harassment.

A police force confirmed that it was contacted by a 19-year-old man who said he faced demands for money to stop sexually explicit images from being released on the internet. Officers have not been able to identify the alleged blackmailer, they said.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... -blackmail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No wonder there are reports that“Everyone is flipping out over here” at Tory HQ.

Can't even feel any schadenfreude. It's all too horrible even if only a fraction of the allegations have any merit in law.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:21 am

Two tweets next to each other on my timeline, not related but made me think. It's people like this who Hodges and his fucking gang of cronies have no idea about. Not helping. Wish we could all stick together.

: ScreenShot01068.jpg (14.2 KiB) Viewed 9548 times

: ScreenShot01067.jpg (38.01 KiB) Viewed 9548 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:27 am

Here we go ... the health cut that isn't a health cut of course. Well - on the selfish side it might just help Wales again. It's a devolved issue so I'm guessing the Welsh govt (that we have now) won't do likewise.

George Osborne considers axeing student nurse bursaries
Stopping public funding for students of nursing would save £800m a year but could worsen NHS recruitment problems
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... -bursaries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Student nurses may stop receiving bursaries and instead have to take out loans to pay their tuition fees under plans the Treasury is considering.

Officials are examining the viability of the cost-cutting measure which the chancellor, George Osborne, could announce in his spending review next Wednesday.

Civil servants are weighing up the potential unpopularity of the move, and the risk of it worsening the existing shortage of NHS nurses, against it potentially freeing up around £800m a year for the government.

It is one of a series of cuts to non-frontline areas of NHS activity and funding that Treasury officials are examining as part of a division of the Department of Health’s ringfenced £116bn annual budget into protected and non-protected areas...

It is all so short sighted and smacks of being told to find the money regardless of the damage. What a relatively piffling amount of saving - put against the probable need to pay even more for agency nurses when recruitment and retention worsens. Stupid and nasty.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:33 am

Because it's somehow fitting for this weather and we need at least one good thing a day here ... it helps to counter the Hodges bile and general Tory crap.

: Yorkshire Dog.jpg (40.96 KiB) Viewed 9534 times

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:37 am

If they were a company or other employer, best practice would be to keep all records.
Written records.
At any Employment Tribunal case subsequently, lack of written records and correct procedures would not go down well.

My husband set up system for such when he was a Personnel Manager years ago, and represented them at tribunals. The company never lost a tribunal case because my husband was scrupulous in procedure. Knowing him as I do, he is also fair minded.

There seem to be some inconsistencies here.
Some reports talk of women saying that their complaints were fed back to the alleged harrasser and he knew they had complained.
Good personnel practice would be that letters should be sent to all concerned.
The test of reasonableness applies apparently. Of all parties, including the employer/adjudicator of the complaints. So why weren't records made and kept ?

But suspect the Tory party in 2015 may not be bound by such notions of good practice if dealing with volunteers or activists. Or legally necessary that they do. But they surely have a duty of care for their workers, paid or not ?
And of course, if any of the people wanted to take a case to a tribunal the Tory/Libs imposed high fees for people doing so.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:38 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Here we go ... the health cut that isn't a health cut of course. Well - on the selfish side it might just help Wales again. It's a devolved issue so I'm guessing the Welsh govt (that we have now) won't do likewise.

George Osborne considers axeing student nurse bursaries
Stopping public funding for students of nursing would save £800m a year but could worsen NHS recruitment problems
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... -bursaries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Student nurses may stop receiving bursaries and instead have to take out loans to pay their tuition fees under plans the Treasury is considering.

Officials are examining the viability of the cost-cutting measure which the chancellor, George Osborne, could announce in his spending review next Wednesday.

Civil servants are weighing up the potential unpopularity of the move, and the risk of it worsening the existing shortage of NHS nurses, against it potentially freeing up around £800m a year for the government.

It is one of a series of cuts to non-frontline areas of NHS activity and funding that Treasury officials are examining as part of a division of the Department of Health’s ringfenced £116bn annual budget into protected and non-protected areas...
It is all so short sighted and smacks of being told to find the money regardless of the damage. What a relatively piffling amount of saving - put against the probable need to pay even more for agency nurses when recruitment and retention worsens. Stupid and nasty.

Good morning, everyone.

Yes, agreed, more senseless than usual, this.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:43 am

Good to see celebrity quizzer CJ de Mooi sleeping outside to highlight the plight of those who have no choice but to do so.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:45 am

I've never heard of him yahyah, i follow Bernadette who retweeted it, is he famous ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:45 am

yahyah wrote:If they were a company or other employer, best practice would be to keep all records.
Written records.
At any Employment Tribunal case subsequently, lack of written records and correct procedures would not go down well.

My husband set up system for such when he was a Personnel Manager years ago, and represented them at tribunals. The company never lost a tribunal case because my husband was scrupulous in procedure. Knowing him as I do, he is also fair minded.

There seem to be some inconsistencies here.
Some reports talk of women saying that their complaints were fed back to the alleged harrasser and he knew they had complained.
Good personnel practice would be that letters should be sent to all concerned.
The test of reasonableness applies apparently. Of all parties, including the employer/adjudicator of the complaints. So why weren't they ?

But suspect the Tory party in 2015 may not be bound by such notions of good practice if dealing with volunteers or activists. Or legally necessary that they do. But they surely have a duty of care for their workers, paid or not ?
And of course, if any of the people wanted to take a case to a tribunal the Tory/Libs imposed high fees for people doing so.

They do have a duty of care ... and they know it. I'm hoping that some of those who put in complaints are going to be able to produce evidence of having done so - regardless of the terrible misfortune that seems to have befallen the Tory IT and personnel system.

Imagine if this were happening in a public sector service - say a school under LA jurisdiction - or a charity providing mental health support services in the community - and receiving public funding. They would be taken to the cleaners.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:46 am

Hodge's mum is appearing in a Radio 4 production about the life of Emile Zola.

In one of their trailers for it, Glenda speaks the lines 'What have I given birth to ?'

Bet she didn't have to dig into her emotional reservoir too hard for the feeling to go with that.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:49 am

He is/was one of the BBC 2 Egg Heads team. Think he may have been on Mastermind and other things like that.
Has a social conscious too.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:49 am

Cambridge News ‏@CambridgeNewsUK 4m4 minutes ago
Heidi Allen admits contract talks with junior doctors have gone "really badly wrong".
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Heidi-A ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

She hasn't quite got the hang of the proper Tory tone and messaging yet, has she. She says 'sorry' several times in her speech.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 9:53 am

There's no way I'm going out in this. It's vicious out there.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 10:01 am

I had a feeling CJ from Eggheads had led something of a colourful life. The following extract from Wiki perhaps explains his desire to use his celebrity to highlight the challenges facing homeless people:

On a self-recorded YouTube video,[6] CJ claims to have had a highly abusive childhood, causing him to run away from home shortly after his seventeenth birthday and become homeless beginning in Rotherham and Sheffield. The video described how he travelled to London, jumped on a ferry to Amsterdam and later moved on to Cologne, where a chance encounter outside a gay bar led to the beginnings of his modelling career. De Mooi said that in 1988 he may have killed a man who was attempting to mug him by punching and throwing him into a canal in Amsterdam.[7]

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 10:30 am

We always thought the Tories fought a pretty dirty election campaign - what with the Fallon scare mongering re back stabbing brother being a threat to the nation - the Labour being bossed around by Salmond / SNP etc etc. It seems from this that the dirt was utterly pervasive

Ben Harris-Quinney, chairman of the Bow Group, the oldest Conservative Party think-tank, told me: ‘I was complaining to central office for months about Clarke. Young activists were being driven across the country delivering leaflets and knocking on doors. But they were also being used as sexual outlets for Clarke and his cronies.
‘These young Tories were told by Clarke it would be good for their career prospects. Some of them were barely 20 years old. Clarke always knew who went off with whom. He logged it all. It was attempted blackmail on a large scale.’
When Mr Clarke was finally expelled this week, Lord Feldman insisted he had known only in the past few days about his scandalous behaviour. But Mr Harris-Quinney says: ‘Not so. Unless he’s stupid, Feldman must have known for years. Clarke was indulged because the Road Trip initiative was successful in the marginal constituencies.’

We had groups of young people (not sure if they were even young Tories as we were told that they have been known to pay people to deliver / canvass) coming round for them in this constituency.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 10:31 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Here we go ... the health cut that isn't a health cut of course. Well - on the selfish side it might just help Wales again. It's a devolved issue so I'm guessing the Welsh govt (that we have now) won't do likewise.

George Osborne considers axeing student nurse bursaries
Stopping public funding for students of nursing would save £800m a year but could worsen NHS recruitment problems
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... -bursaries" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Student nurses may stop receiving bursaries and instead have to take out loans to pay their tuition fees under plans the Treasury is considering.

Officials are examining the viability of the cost-cutting measure which the chancellor, George Osborne, could announce in his spending review next Wednesday.

Civil servants are weighing up the potential unpopularity of the move, and the risk of it worsening the existing shortage of NHS nurses, against it potentially freeing up around £800m a year for the government.

It is one of a series of cuts to non-frontline areas of NHS activity and funding that Treasury officials are examining as part of a division of the Department of Health’s ringfenced £116bn annual budget into protected and non-protected areas...
It is all so short sighted and smacks of being told to find the money regardless of the damage. What a relatively piffling amount of saving - put against the probable need to pay even more for agency nurses when recruitment and retention worsens. Stupid and nasty.

Don't they make the bursuries contingent on the recipient working in the NHS for a period of time on qualification? I would have thought that pretty standard good business practice, to ensure a steady supply of relevantly qualified staff. Even private companies often have such arrangements. Or is Cameron just trying to prove the public sector isn't competent by making lots if stupid decisions personally?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 10:35 am

: Voting Tory Results in Tory Policies.jpg (43.58 KiB) Viewed 9451 times

Graham Allen MP ‏@GrahamAllenMP 31m31 minutes ago
Voting Tory results in Tory policies!Get ready for decimation of social fabric in Wednesday's financial statement

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 10:51 am

Re. RR2's comment yesterday:

Well good for them - the Now Show on Radio 4 are doing a sketch on the appalling report on the impact of WCA on the mental health of claimants. Yes, it's a comedy sketch but it's taking apart the DWP judgements / rulings on things such as how incontinent you have to be to be not able to work .... and they are actually saying how 'nasty' the DWP is. They are making all the serious points that need to be made about this vile system.

Before the Now Show started its current run Radio 4 had the first series of The News Quiz hosted by Miles Jupp; Jeremy Hardy is always good value for a Tory-bashing tirade, but there was something quite wonderful about hearing the measured, posh tones of public school-educated Jupp tearing Cameron and his crew a new one even more viciously than Hardy - bet they didn't teach him that when he was studying Divinity at Edinburgh!!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:03 am

Morning all. Bloody cold round here but at least the wind has dropped and the rain stopped - it was disgusting earlier.

re the move to have nurses - and presumably midwives? - on the same basis as everyone else, I wonder what the proportion will be of what gets paid back given that nurses salaries generally aren't likely to be as high as 'normal' graduates?

All it will do is shift the problem into the future when the loans are eventually written off...wait...yeah, you're right, it's an obvious solution.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:07 am

Willow904 wrote:I had a feeling CJ from Eggheads had led something of a colourful life. The following extract from Wiki perhaps explains his desire to use his celebrity to highlight the challenges facing homeless people:
On a self-recorded YouTube video,[6] CJ claims to have had a highly abusive childhood, causing him to run away from home shortly after his seventeenth birthday and become homeless beginning in Rotherham and Sheffield. The video described how he travelled to London, jumped on a ferry to Amsterdam and later moved on to Cologne, where a chance encounter outside a gay bar led to the beginnings of his modelling career. De Mooi said that in 1988 he may have killed a man who was attempting to mug him by punching and throwing him into a canal in Amsterdam.[7]

Always worth taking what he says with a sizeable pinch of salt. He claimed that he had been dropped from Strictly because he insisted on having a male partner when, in reality, he was never being considered for the programme anyway. Having said which, yes, well done him for highlighting the issues of homelessness in such a practical and graphic fashion.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/stri ... cj-6384863" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:12 am

Fined farmer tops Tory candidate list for assembly poll
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34863678" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A farmer recently fined for animal offences has been chosen as the lead Conservative assembly candidate in the Mid and West Wales region in 2016.
Powys opposition group leader Aled Davies was fined more than £2,500 in October after admitting six offences.
Animal health officers found nine sheep carcasses on his farm said to have been dead for two weeks. He also admitted failing to register the death of a cow.
A Tory spokesman said the case was not about animal health or animal welfare.
Labour insisted he should be suspended as a candidate, but he was backed by Welsh Conservative leader Andrew RT Davies as one of "an excellent field of candidates in Mid and West Wales"...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:12 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34889144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brussels terror alert based on fears of 'Paris-style attack'

Brother lives in Brussels,stay safe.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:18 am

Ben Bradshaw ‏@BenPBradshaw 9m9 minutes ago
Good, clear condemnation of on-line abuse of Labour members & MPs, which has "no place" in @UKLabour from Jeremy #labsw15

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:22 am

yahyah wrote:If they were a company or other employer, best practice would be to keep all records.
Written records.
At any Employment Tribunal case subsequently, lack of written records and correct procedures would not go down well.

My husband set up system for such when he was a Personnel Manager years ago, and represented them at tribunals. The company never lost a tribunal case because my husband was scrupulous in procedure. Knowing him as I do, he is also fair minded.

There seem to be some inconsistencies here.
Some reports talk of women saying that their complaints were fed back to the alleged harrasser and he knew they had complained.
Good personnel practice would be that letters should be sent to all concerned.
The test of reasonableness applies apparently. Of all parties, including the employer/adjudicator of the complaints. So why weren't records made and kept ?

But suspect the Tory party in 2015 may not be bound by such notions of good practice if dealing with volunteers or activists. Or legally necessary that they do. But they surely have a duty of care for their workers, paid or not ?
And of course, if any of the people wanted to take a case to a tribunal the Tory/Libs imposed high fees for people doing so.

It's yet more proof that the Tories don't do anything by the book...If they get an idea they just up and do it, and ignore it if, or rather when it backfires. Too arrogant for their own good, they've surrounded themselves with yes men who are equally as bad.

Every time some new bit of nastiness rises to the surface, I'm reminded that to them it's not nastiness. It's perfectly normal...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:25 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Ben Bradshaw ‏@BenPBradshaw 9m9 minutes ago
Good, clear condemnation of on-line abuse of Labour members & MPs, which has "no place" in @UKLabour from Jeremy #labsw15

Ah, this must be the speech TE was getting so excercised about at the end of yesterday's thread.

Let's see what he actually said, as opposed to MSM claims of what he was going to say? You never know, it might catch on

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:28 am

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 5m5 minutes ago
Corbyn points out Obama said recently, Isis “grew out of our invasion of Iraq” and is one of its “unintended consequences"

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 9m9 minutes ago
Corbyn on Syria "it is vital at a time of tragedy and outrage not to be drawn into responses which feed a cycle of violence and hatred."

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:31 am

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 45s45 seconds ago
Some on left pointing out new UN resolution lacks ChapterVII authorisation for explicit use of force, sthing Hilary Benn insisted on in Sep

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:36 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34886321" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The BBC piece on Corbyn's speech is a bit short. I guess I'll have to wait for a proper report. He must have said more, surely!

Edited to add that the above linked article has been fleshed out a little now. I think the focus on resolving the civil war in Syria is the right approach for Labour. Until Cameron actually makes a proposal to join the bombing I don't think Labour needs to set out a definitive position, beyond insisting any military action would require a plan to show how such bombing would be followed up.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:39 am

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 3m3 minutes ago
.@LawDavF I suspect the debate in Parliament (and within Shadow Cabinet) will centre on precisely that now

Paul Waugh Retweeted
Lawrence Freedman ‏@LawDavF 5m5 minutes ago
@paulwaugh It doesn't have to be Chap 7 when you can do it under Article 51 - right of self-defense (as with Falklands)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:40 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 45s45 seconds ago
Some on left pointing out new UN resolution lacks ChapterVII authorisation for explicit use of force, sthing Hilary Benn insisted on in Sep

I wonder if it'll be enough of a figleaf for the SNP. The UK's Syria policy is becoming more about political manoeuvres to shaft the Labour party than actually resolving a Middle Eastern crisis, it seems to me. Benn would do well to stick to his position of needing a clear follow up plan of action before Labour can support bombing.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:42 am

There is actually the potential for the SNP to split over this just as much as other parties. I expect they will remain cautious for the time being.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:46 am

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 45s45 seconds ago
Some on left pointing out new UN resolution lacks ChapterVII authorisation for explicit use of force, sthing Hilary Benn insisted on in Sep
I wonder if it'll be enough of a figleaf for the SNP. The UK's Syria policy is becoming more about political manoeuvres to shaft the Labour party than actually resolving a Middle Eastern crisis, it seems to me. Benn would do well to stick to his position of needing a clear follow up plan of action before Labour can support bombing.

And elsewhere the usual hoo ha is being made over remarks that John McDonnell has supposedly said calling for Labour MPs to get a free vote over Syria - apparently in contradiction to Corbyn. McDonnell is asking them to get what he said right. And I haven't yet heard what Corbyn proposes for Labour MPs re a vote on going into Syria - because, as far as I know, Cameron hasn't actually set out what the government are proposing, why and on what basis .... That is to come.

Edited for far too many 'yet's.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:53 am

Ben Bradshaw ‏@BenPBradshaw 2m2 minutes ago
#Daesh a "depraved, fascist organisation" @hilarybennmp tells #labsw15 & welcomes #UNSC resolution calling for "all necessary measures".

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:57 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 3m3 minutes ago
.@LawDavF I suspect the debate in Parliament (and within Shadow Cabinet) will centre on precisely that now

Paul Waugh Retweeted
Lawrence Freedman ‏@LawDavF 5m5 minutes ago
@paulwaugh It doesn't have to be Chap 7 when you can do it under Article 51 - right of self-defense (as with Falklands)

That rather depends on what you can define as self-defense surely?

The Falklands was British territory which made that case simple but now? France can argue that they have attacks on their country which could be linked back to IS in Syria but the UK? I suspect they might have to give a few more details about the "thwarted attacks" before we could claim the same.

Unless of course, and this was brought up the other night on TW, it was done under the auspices of NATO - attack one of us, attack all of us.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 11:59 am

If anybody didn't hear it, John Mann & Ken Livingstone had quite a heated debate earlier on LBC.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/ken-in-raging-row- ... ann-120160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: ScreenShot01070.jpg (59.45 KiB) Viewed 9348 times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 12:48 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:If anybody didn't hear it, John Mann & Ken Livingstone had quite a heated debate earlier on LBC.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/ken-in-raging-row- ... ann-120160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ScreenShot01070.jpg

Ken Livingstone unfortunately doing a good impression of someone who doesn't follow what's going on in the general political and Westminster world. Hence, as I've mentioned before, his ignorance of Kevan Jones's disclosure of his past mental health problems. John Mann not covered in glory, either, but I feel that he came off better.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 12:49 pm

Good morfternoon.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 12:50 pm

Allegra Stratton ‏@BBCAllegra 27m27 minutes ago
Allegra Stratton Retweeted Tony Gallagher
Very proud to see @JGForsyth new column in the Sun. Don't normally tweet about him indoors... So forgive me this one

Tony GallagherVerified account
‏@tonygallagher
And here's why we have signed him: @JGForsyth reveals Boris is plotting and Theresa is being undermined by the centre...

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 12:57 pm

PorFavor wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:If anybody didn't hear it, John Mann & Ken Livingstone had quite a heated debate earlier on LBC.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/ken-in-raging-row- ... ann-120160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ScreenShot01070.jpg
Ken Livingstone unfortunately doing a good impression of someone who doesn't follow what's going on in the general political and Westminster world. Hence, as I've mentioned before, his ignorance of Kevan Jones's disclosure of his past mental health problems. John Mann not covered in glory, either, but I feel that he came off better.

Which is all very true, but maybe Jones is not so squeaky clean here? As Mike Sivier has pointed out, Jones made a comment not dissimilar to Livingstone's back in 2010. I'm not condoning Ken's actions or comments, but Jones' motives are certainly questionable.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/11/2 ... van-jones/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 1:04 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Allegra Stratton ‏@BBCAllegra 27m27 minutes ago
Allegra Stratton Retweeted Tony Gallagher
Very proud to see @JGForsyth new column in the Sun. Don't normally tweet about him indoors... So forgive me this one

Tony GallagherVerified account
‏@tonygallagher
And here's why we have signed him: @JGForsyth reveals Boris is plotting and Theresa is being undermined by the centre...

Why on earth would you be proud of your husband writing a column for The Sun?

I bet Mel Phillips wouldn't do the same for her old man writing in The Guardian or being at the BBC.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 1:09 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Allegra Stratton ‏@BBCAllegra 27m27 minutes ago
Allegra Stratton Retweeted Tony Gallagher
Very proud to see @JGForsyth new column in the Sun. Don't normally tweet about him indoors... So forgive me this one

Tony GallagherVerified account
‏@tonygallagher
And here's why we have signed him: @JGForsyth reveals Boris is plotting and Theresa is being undermined by the centre...
Why on earth would you be proud of your husband writing a column for The Sun?

I bet Mel Phillips wouldn't do the same for her old man writing in The Guardian or being at the BBC.

Yes - it took me aback too. And it also made me wonder what she might be thinking / reporting next time there is an issue with the Murdoch / Brooks mouthpiece.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 1:35 pm

Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 9m9 minutes ago Newport, Wales
Petty Welsh Tory Nasty Party has ousted their best Assembly Member for the crime of always standing up for Newport. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-34881770" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 1:36 pm

I read a couple good posts on the G live blog.
They closed the comments after a few hundred.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 1:42 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:If anybody didn't hear it, John Mann & Ken Livingstone had quite a heated debate earlier on LBC.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/ken-in-raging-row- ... ann-120160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ScreenShot01070.jpg
Ken Livingstone unfortunately doing a good impression of someone who doesn't follow what's going on in the general political and Westminster world. Hence, as I've mentioned before, his ignorance of Kevan Jones's disclosure of his past mental health problems. John Mann not covered in glory, either, but I feel that he came off better.
Which is all very true, but maybe Jones is not so squeaky clean here? As Mike Sivier has pointed out, Jones made a comment not dissimilar to Livingstone's back in 2010. I'm not condoning Ken's actions or comments, but Jones' motives are certainly questionable.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/11/2 ... van-jones/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The trouble is, Kevan Jones's comments are, I feel, totally dissimilar. Ken Livingstone's remarks (albeit unintentionally - but I feel that he should have known whereof he spoke if he'd been paying proper attention) seem virtually tailored to be personally hurtful to KJ and to others. (I'm not explaining myself very well, am I?)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 1:48 pm

Let's face it - Ken has form for being a bit of a motor mouth and striking out. There are a lot of things he has done that I respect and admire. But his ego seems to have got the better of him here - wish he could have just said sorry in an uncomplicated way the first time and left it at that.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 21 Nov, 2015 1:54 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:We always thought the Tories fought a pretty dirty election campaign - what with the Fallon scare mongering re back stabbing brother being a threat to the nation - the Labour being bossed around by Salmond / SNP etc etc. It seems from this that the dirt was utterly pervasive

Ben Harris-Quinney, chairman of the Bow Group, the oldest Conservative Party think-tank, told me: ‘I was complaining to central office for months about Clarke. Young activists were being driven across the country delivering leaflets and knocking on doors. But they were also being used as sexual outlets for Clarke and his cronies.
‘These young Tories were told by Clarke it would be good for their career prospects. Some of them were barely 20 years old. Clarke always knew who went off with whom. He logged it all. It was attempted blackmail on a large scale.’
When Mr Clarke was finally expelled this week, Lord Feldman insisted he had known only in the past few days about his scandalous behaviour. But Mr Harris-Quinney says: ‘Not so. Unless he’s stupid, Feldman must have known for years. Clarke was indulged because the Road Trip initiative was successful in the marginal constituencies.’
We had groups of young people (not sure if they were even young Tories as we were told that they have been known to pay people to deliver / canvass) coming round for them in this constituency.

Should think there may be more than a few Tory voting parents feeling a bit green about this.
Probably proudly telling their friends a few months ago 'Young Jemima is spending time helping the Conservatives win the election, they are sending here all over the place' and now wondering just what went on.