Tuesday 1st December 2015

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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by citizenJA »

seeingclearly wrote:For information only. The Scottish perspective. Not endorsing or condemning this piece, it is what it is.

http://www.thenational.scot/comment/car ... bour.10586" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Carolyn Leckie, former member of the Scottish Parliament for the Scottish Socialist Party:
[Corbyn is] wedded to the old Labourite left, which has never quite managed to break with the idea of the British Road
to Socialism. It may have made some sense in bygone decades, before globalisation, devolution and the emergence of
progressive, civic nationalism in various parts of Europe. But it’s an idea whose time has gone. However, I also believe
in giving credit where it’s due. Corbyn is a consistent, principled politician.

Generally speaking, socialists are internationalists - the free movement of labour is central to socialist ideology, is that not true? I'm not writing about the European Union (EU) when I write that. I don't like the chauvinistic 'British' thing Leckie throws in there, cutting people apart, creating divisions between people in the UK. 'old Labourite left' - Leckie should just call Corbyn opprobrious names instead of the passive aggressive horseshit - it'd be more honest. Socialists stick together, that's whole point of cooperative endeavour. Giving credit where credit is due, I believe Leckie is a 'Blairite out to destroy' the Labour party leader.

edited to add my apology for using profanity and overall harshness - I've re-read my post a couple of times and I don't like my tone.
Last edited by citizenJA on Tue 01 Dec, 2015 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... et-surplus

Osborne reliant on rising immigration levels to achieve budget surplus
Guardian analysis shows that without recent upward revisions of net migration numbers, chancellor would not achieve budget surplus by 2019-20
I'd like to see McDonnell take this up.

It was a big mistake of Miliband's to apologise for immigration policy. Osborne was always going to ignore it, and hide behind the Lib Dems.

There are arguments for and against immigration, but if the economic one is nailed then Brown and Balls could get rehabilitated. That would be a huge advantage.
gilsey
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by gilsey »

Last night on Newsnight it was 60-100 Labour MPs voting with Cameron, lunchtime today, about 50.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
HindleA
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by HindleA »

Next years budget March 16th.
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

tinybgoat wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:December 1st 1955. Montgomery, Alabama. Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat to a white passenger and remove herself to the coloured section of the bus.

(Did sixty years really go that fast?)
Jeremy Corbyn was on Jeremy Vine show & finished by paying tribute to her.
Like many others I didn't vote for him, but he's a good man.
As a small brown girl in a very white world my mum taught me about the civil rights movement from a very humanist perspective. Events like this were my early into to politics! She came from a very mixed world herself, I was brought up to think of family as a mini united nations because we had people of so many different origins as members. I compounded this with my own marriages! Anyway, it reminded me so much of her, and a time when everything was very hopeful. Glad JC also remembered this, he is a good man, and I hope he stays with us longer, he has already created the space for conversations that would not have happened otherwise. I don't agree eith them all, but they are far more enlivening than the media onslaughts.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by citizenJA »

Temulkar wrote:Caroline Lucas very good on DP today. Although, I am less hopeful on Paris than she is and restricting to 2.7' warming is devastating. Governments need to match words with actions, and the deal needs to be enforced not voluntary. As soon as there is any trouble the green crap will get cut.
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by gilsey »

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/public-leade ... are_btn_tw

Universal credit is undermining even the Tory ambition to make work pay
Emily Thornberry
Is the 'even' hers or the sub-ed's?
Tory lip service would be more like it.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

[Corbyn is] wedded to the old Labourite left, which has never quite managed to break with the idea of the British Road
to Socialism. It may have made some sense in bygone decades, before globalisation, devolution and the emergence of
progressive, civic nationalism
in various parts of Europe. But it’s an idea whose time has gone. However, I also believe
in giving credit where it’s due. Corbyn is a consistent, principled politician.

I think don't recall much leftwing opposition to devolution in 1997

Sounds like she's flattering her nationalist publishers there. It's an easy thing to say about opponents, that they're stopping Scotland deciding for itself, and how it's always going to do better than "Westminster" and all that. But there are good reasons to oppose devolution of business taxes, for instance, as leading to a race to the bottom, and how it's bad to chuck up barriers with your biggest trading partner.
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

citizenJA wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:For information only. The Scottish perspective. Not endorsing or condemning this piece, it is what it is.

http://www.thenational.scot/comment/car ... bour.10586" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Carolyn Leckie, former member of the Scottish Parliament for the Scottish Socialist Party:
[Corbyn is] wedded to the old Labourite left, which has never quite managed to break with the idea of the British Road
to Socialism. It may have made some sense in bygone decades, before globalisation, devolution and the emergence of
progressive, civic nationalism in various parts of Europe. But it’s an idea whose time has gone. However, I also believe
in giving credit where it’s due. Corbyn is a consistent, principled politician.

Generally speaking, socialists are internationalists - the free movement of labour is central to socialist ideology, is that not true? I'm not writing about the European Union (EU) when I write that. I don't like the chauvinistic 'British' thing Leckie throws in there, cutting people apart, creating divisions between people in the UK. 'old Labourite left' - Leckie should just call Corbyn opprobrious names instead of the passive aggressive horseshit - it'd be more honest. Socialists stick together, that's whole point of cooperative endeavour. Giving credit where credit is due, I believe Leckie is a 'Blairite out to destroy' the Labour party leader.
Certinly the narratives in Scotland are somewhat different, they play to some other agenda. I forgot what I meant to say here! Yes, of course they are internationalists, and isn't that exactly why Ed would not play along with the SNP? I liked him for standing his ground on that. But you can tell people who have pno clue about history other than what is dished up to them anything and they will believe it. Like the SNP is socialist! So much for internationalism, which is really why .i posted it. It's useful to know what they are saying up there.

-------------

There was a piece that I couldn't for some reason grab a link for, an ex-Nato general I think, who had some very persuasive reasons for it not being right to join in this war. The most impressive bit was about what it would actually take, militarily speaking, to gain control of a city of 350,000 people. Talked about the kind of attrition that would ensue. He was, iirs, of the opinion that bombing now would inflame things here and lead to civilians deaths there. I guess we all understand that. A combined land force is needed, I hope these debates will be asking the right things.
Last edited by seeingclearly on Tue 01 Dec, 2015 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rebecca
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Rebecca »

refitman wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
refitman wrote:Morning all.
I've sent you a pm.
I've not received anything. Can you check your Outbox is showing (1)?
It seems to have disappeared.Will try again.Thanks
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Could Corbyn perhaps say he'll impose a whip to vote against unless more time is given to clarify?

I think that would be smart.
Rebecca
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Rebecca »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Could Corbyn perhaps say he'll impose a whip to vote against unless more time is given to clarify?

I think that would be smart.

Good idea,bet you could email him the suggestion.
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Rebecca »

Anyway,for more important news than potential war,my 11 year old car passed it's mot again.
I keep expecting it to fail,but so far it has always sailed straight through.
Temulkar
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Temulkar »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Temulkar wrote:Caroline Lucas very good on DP today. Although, I am less hopeful on Paris than she is and restricting to 2.7' warming is devastating. Governments need to match words with actions, and the deal needs to be enforced not voluntary. As soon as there is any trouble the green crap will get cut.
Sure, but how would she get anybody else to agree to it?

This is where stuff like messing the EU about with silly referendums (as she has supported for ages) would be a problem.
Fines etc, but it depends upon international will and that, for now, is still lacking. A couple more big natural disasters and the urgency might, hopefully, become apparant to the big three. I am hopeful about sino-indian co-operation. Half of indian cities still run on petrol generators. Away from the big cities it's like going back to the 1950s. They get so much sun and Tesla's new battery means renewable could electrify the country - that would be huge.

As far as the EU goes, there are as broad a range of views in the Greens as every other party. The referendum is party policy so the argument is finished once and for all. CL is against Brexit some Greens are uber-localists, some are pro - EU. We aren't tearing ourselves apart over Europe because we have democratically agreed the policy. People will campaign on their personal beliefs coe referendum time.

We're quite a broad church you know, there's even the odd pro-trident green and certainly a few who see Nuclear power as a stopgap option (though not built by the chinese) as we bring renewables on line.
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by HindleA »

http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/recent-eu-m ... l2wAXpFBpV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Recent EU migration to the UK: can we trust government numbers?


J.Portes.
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

nickyinnorfolk wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:December 1st 1955. Montgomery, Alabama. Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat to a white passenger and remove herself to the coloured section of the bus.

(Did sixty years really go that fast?)
Jeremy Corbyn was on Jeremy Vine show & finished by paying tribute to her.
Like many others I didn't vote for him, but he's a good man.
I heard that - he spoke very movingly.

Also worth noting that most of the comments following JC's interview were in agreement with him, despite Jeremy Vine's best efforts to undermine him. Interestingly quite a few saying they'd never voted Labour but supported his stance on not bombing. Seems as if people might be making their own minds up about Corbyn.
My FB feed this morning was full of mentions of MPs who had contacted constituents, not all Labour voters. Loads of comments below and only saw one comment that supported the air strikes. Some very positive comments about how nice it was to be asked, and many saying it was a first time ever. If anything it seems these letters were better supported than the Corbyn letter. There was also an unbiased post from momentum giving the usual link for contacting your mp, and encouraging people to give their view.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Britain's EU Referendum is currently pissing off 27 other EU member state governments. If you strongly oppose TTIP when the other governments are in favour, you piss them off even more. If you leave NATO, you piss off lots of countries too.

You can't then expect all that much "international will" for what you want.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

I see the Greens want to abolish permanent membership of the UN security council too.

International will.
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

HindleA wrote:http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/recent-eu-m ... l2wAXpFBpV


Recent EU migration to the UK: can we trust government numbers?


J.Portes.
I have a vague memory only that EU students were also to be counted in as workers, this set me wondering whether that happened or not.
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by PorFavor »

If anyone has the capability to move about, hide, tunnel etc in order to dodge airstrikes - it's Isil. The other inhabitants of Syria (including our disparate "allies") will be the ones who will be the main casualties.

I know I'm probably stating the obvious but I felt that I had to.





Edited to add a "to"
TR'sGhost
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by TR'sGhost »

citizenJA wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:For information only. The Scottish perspective. Not endorsing or condemning this piece, it is what it is.

http://www.thenational.scot/comment/car ... bour.10586" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Carolyn Leckie, former member of the Scottish Parliament for the Scottish Socialist Party:
[Corbyn is] wedded to the old Labourite left, which has never quite managed to break with the idea of the British Road
to Socialism. It may have made some sense in bygone decades, before globalisation, devolution and the emergence of
progressive, civic nationalism in various parts of Europe. But it’s an idea whose time has gone. However, I also believe
in giving credit where it’s due. Corbyn is a consistent, principled politician.

Generally speaking, socialists are internationalists - the free movement of labour is central to socialist ideology, is that not true? I'm not writing about the European Union (EU) when I write that. I don't like the chauvinistic 'British' thing Leckie throws in there, cutting people apart, creating divisions between people in the UK. 'old Labourite left' - Leckie should just call Corbyn opprobrious names instead of the passive aggressive horseshit - it'd be more honest. Socialists stick together, that's whole point of cooperative endeavour. Giving credit where credit is due, I believe Leckie is a 'Blairite out to destroy' the Labour party leader.
Socialist internationalism, to me, is based on the working class of all countries having far more interests in common than things that divide us. Capital is international and always has been. Those who try to drive down wages and employment conditions and the social wage in Britain are the same class (and often the same people) who do the same thing in Africa, the Americas, the Pacific rim countries and pretty much everywhere else.

None of which negates supporting national liberation movements that are based on anti-imperialism. The alternative would be to argue, as some Labourites and Trotskyites amongst others once did, that India and the rest of the British colonies should be denied independence even though that's what the vast majority living there wanted and without which they had no control at all over who governed them. Essentially a position of asking people in other countries to wait upon the British revolution before seeking to implement any demands of their own on the one hand and straightforward support of the concept of Empire on the other.

Scotland I leave as a decision for Scots and those living in Scotland. Partly because I can see both sides of the argument as having merit and partly because, well, I'm an English resident of the once-industrial English midlands and can well understand why someone in Scotland might be willing to regard escaping the Bullingdon Club as their most pressing political/ economic issue.

As for the BRS, I don't think it ever really had much impact outside the (defunct) CPGB and (miniscule and almost defunct) CPB. Personally I've always regarded it as too inflexible, prescriptive and formulaic and maybe also ran the risk if implemented of creating a re-run of Chile in 1973/4. By the 1980s 'Marxism Today' (sic) was too the right of Foot, Benn Snr., Corbyn, Meacher etc. and pretty much presented Thatcherism and Reaganism as done irreversible deals that were "the end of history", the way forward being to support moderate, liberal (and Liberal/SDP) social policies while leaving capitalism pretty much unchallenged. At least one MT leading light of that period has since said their intention all along was to pull the entire political environment to the right.

In many ways a precursor of Blairite-Mandelsonism and Progress Ltd.
I'm getting tired of calming down....
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Good song this...great album too (Yellow Moon) with what is possibly the best version of A Change Is Gonna Come

[youtube]JKCsZc37esU[/youtube]
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Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Scotland I leave as a decision for Scots and those living in Scotland. Partly because I can see both sides of the argument as having merit and partly because, well, I'm an English resident of the once-industrial English midlands and can well understand why someone in Scotland might be willing to regard escaping the Bullingdon Club as their most pressing political/ economic issue.
When you have that degree of devolution, with the Barnet Formula, and awful numbers for Scotland, it's a ridiculous position to take.

And it's not just something for the Scots. Somewhere next door competing on business taxes, as was proposed in the Indyref, is bad for everyone.
Last edited by Tubby Isaacs on Tue 01 Dec, 2015 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Sorry, Temulkar, I know we've dished it out to each other, but I was a bit out of order there.

What I said about the Greens is no less true of Corbyn, after all. In every case, they need to be taken as negotiating positions. I see that as raising false hopes, but you could equally say that if you start from a hardline position then you might get a better detail.
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Front National tipped to win the regional elections in Nord Pas de Calais-Picardie. It's the poorest mainland region of France, mixture of rustbelt and rural/small towns. Wales might be a good comparison, but it's well connected via Eurostar, TGV, etc.

It would be a big stain on the region if the Front National won.

The old left position on devolution, if indeed it ever was hostile, will look good if the FN win. They can provide a base for very unpleasant parties.

However much I dislike the SNP, their nationalism is civic and has lots of good policies.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

You don't arf talk some tosh sometimes Rog ...... Sam Cooke did the best version of Change Is Gonna Come. ;)

Just catching up on the sad news about Lady C. FTN's version of Lady C possessed so much more class than the one currently prancing around the Australian jungle for those Geordie boys. I for one will miss Lady C's 'voice'. :rock:
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

Can anyone tell me whether when they refer to the anti-Corbyn/blairites as 'moderates' this is a kind of oblique analogy to the MPs who broke away formed the SDP? And if so is it some kind of wish-fulfilling thing? And are they themselves aware of it? I've been wondering about it for a while, it isn't a label they have adopted themselves, it has been stuck on by someone/thing.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

It is certainly true that "moderates" was regularly used by the media in Labour reporting when I was a young 'un in the 1980s ("extremist" being the usual counterpoint in those days)

The point being of course that, then and now, people are generally conditioned to regard "moderation" as a good thing in itself. Which it may often be, but not always.

(and that leaves aside the question, for instance, of how "moderate" some of the uber-Blairite types really are)
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by PorFavor »

Workers in the UK will have the worst pensions of any major economy and the oldest official retirement age of any country, according tothe[sic] Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/d ... t-age-oecd
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

I remember the Gang of Four being presented as very reasonable, and tbh they seemed it for a short while. But they wreaked havoc. And then continued doing so. They were the nest and tidies though and the rest of Labour seemed to be presented as scruffies. Of course it was all in black and white. But there you go. They certainly wrecked a fair bit along the way.
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by TobyLatimer »

Corbyn interview with Laura Kuenssberg on BBC website appeared not long ago http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34976279" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ScreenShot01161.jpg
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Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Sheriff Mike released his annual report. Hard to tell apart from any other day really.

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/ofsted-annual- ... ded-at-11/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Launching the report, Sir Michael said: “We are witnessing an educational division of the country after age 11, with secondary schools performing well overall in the South but struggling to improve in the North and Midlands"
Kids in richer areas do better in school? Christ, I'm stunned. Perhaps we could have acknowledged that years ago, and stopped beating up on the teachers who teach in the poorer areas? Sure, Mikey had lots of FSM kids at Mossbourne, but lots of those would be prior high attainers. Lots of low attainers from round the school (an area badly hit by the riots) were socially engineered out of the intake.

Another nice nugget is that, per Sheriff Mike, Primary schools continue to perform significantly better than secondaries. Awkward for the academy bullshitters.
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 8 hrs8 hours ago Belfast, Northern Ireland

Clunk! And there goes the final nail in the coffin for those who thought bombing Syria was a good idea

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/29/world ... p=cur&_r=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by HindleA »

http://leftfootforward.org/2015/12/ons- ... cord-high/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ONS: Number of workers on minimum wage at a record high

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/elmr/econ ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

And, of course, the main Swedish centre-right party changed their name to the "Moderate Party" some years back - precisely because that sounded more appealing to voters.

(so its obviously not just an English language thing)
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Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

seeingclearly wrote:I remember the Gang of Four being presented as very reasonable, and tbh they seemed it for a short while. But they wreaked havoc. And then continued doing so. They were the nest and tidies though and the rest of Labour seemed to be presented as scruffies. Of course it was all in black and white. But there you go. They certainly wrecked a fair bit along the way.
They were ridiculous, weren't they? Ridiculous strop thrown over the 1981 Wembley Conference, when the Right was still in a powerful position. The ones who "stayed and fought" survived as local MPs. Deselections are usually personal as well as political.

As it happened, the Bennite left fell away after 1981 anyway.
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

That word again!

Are there 70,000 Syrian 'moderates' ready to back the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34975978" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Make your own mind up.
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

The local authorities where less than 60 per cent of children attend good or outstanding secondary schools, have lower than national GCSE attainment and make less than national levels of expected progress, are:
– Middlesbrough
– Hartlepool
– Blackpool
– Oldham
– Doncaster
– Bradford
– Barnsley
– Stoke-on-Trent
– Derbyshire
– Liverpool
– Knowsley
– St Helens
– Salford
– Isle of Wight
– Swindon
– South Gloucestershire.
The last is a bit of a surprise, though I think it's treated very badly by the national funding formula.

Hilariously, Sheriff Mike has a pop at "local politicians" in northern cities which are doing well for not pulling up the "towns" around them. Local politicians can't intervene in most of the schools in their area. Does he think that eg the mayor of Manchester can go into schools in Oldham and sort them out?

Buffoon.
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by HindleA »

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-12- ... a-bombing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Foreign Affairs Select Committee does not support Syria airstrikes
The Foreign Affairs Select Committee has decided by a majority vote that they do not support the Prime Minister on proposed airstrikes against the so-called Islamic State in Syria, ITV News understands.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
The local authorities where less than 60 per cent of children attend good or outstanding secondary schools, have lower than national GCSE attainment and make less than national levels of expected progress, are:
– Middlesbrough
– Hartlepool
– Blackpool
– Oldham
– Doncaster
– Bradford
– Barnsley
– Stoke-on-Trent
– Derbyshire
– Liverpool
– Knowsley
– St Helens
– Salford
– Isle of Wight
– Swindon
– South Gloucestershire.
The last is a bit of a surprise, though I think it's treated very badly by the national funding formula.

Hilariously, Sheriff Mike has a pop at "local politicians" in northern cities which are doing well for not pulling up the "towns" around them. Local politicians can't intervene in most of the schools in their area. Does he think that eg the mayor of Manchester can go into schools in Oldham and sort them out?

Buffoon.
Wonder what the proportion of academies is like for those? I'll take a look at some point.

But of course, LAs can simply walk in to all of those and turn them around...
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Faisal IslamVerified account
‏@faisalislam

In interview with me, Labour leader @jeremycorbyn warns MPs "there is no hiding place" for their decisions in the @houseofcommons tomorrow
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

HindleA wrote:http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015-12- ... a-bombing/


Foreign Affairs Select Committee does not support Syria airstrikes
The Foreign Affairs Select Committee has decided by a majority vote that they do not support the Prime Minister on proposed airstrikes against the so-called Islamic State in Syria, ITV News understands.
No wonder Cameron wants this done tmrw.
yahyah
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by yahyah »

Just reminding myself who's on the committee

Member Party
Crispin Blunt (Chair) Conservative
Mr John Baron Conservative
Ann Clwyd Labour
Mike Gapes Labour (Co-op)
Stephen Gethins Scottish National Party
Mr Mark Hendrick Labour (Co-op)
Adam Holloway Conservative
Daniel Kawczynski Conservative
Yasmin Qureshi Labour
Andrew Rosindell Conservative
Nadhim Zahawi Conservative

Mike Gapes must still be in hospital ?
yahyah
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by yahyah »

Peter Jukes
‏@peterjukes
BREAKING: "We could ruin them... personal stuff" how Mark Clarke bullied Tory activists

''Mark Clarke bullied Oxford Tory activists in meeting attended by senior Tories..... and while claiming the 'full support of the Prime Minister.''
https://www.byline.com/project/30/article/634" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

I was still learning my way around what was going on then, some of it experientially, it seemed a necessity to understand it all because politics seemed to intrude on every aspect of life. I'd not long returned from living under a marxist regime which was supposed to be bad, to a democracy which was supposed to be good, but you had to be a criminal or a militant insurgent there to warrant the amount of government attention you got here. I found it quite baffling. It felt like you had to learn fast to survive. I hardly recognised it as something I knew. The SDP were just another bit of the strangeness. I had a health visitor who thought she was Shirley Williams, she and my GP failed to diagnose my daughters infantile eczema for nearly two years, preferring to threaten me with social workers. It was only when I changed doctor that she got the right treatment. Bloody awful times, all mixed up with slot meters, DHSS persecution and being horribly cold. It wasn't just me it was everyone. The Davids and SW stuck in my mind. It is awful to think that people are going through that and worse in the 21st century. We were supposed to have arrived at enlightened societies by now.
ohsocynical
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

James O'Brien Retweeted
Siraj Datoo ‏@dats 5 mins5 minutes ago

Corbyn has just all emailed Labour MPs offering a briefing on Syria with the Indy's MidEast editor Patrick Cockburn
isil.png
isil.png (166.52 KiB) Viewed 6118 times
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
yahyah
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by yahyah »

OhSo, are you advocating a donation of poetry in your signature ?
yahyah
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by yahyah »

Labour's Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones says the case for airstrikes has not been made and the evidence is not there yet.

& two mothers of soldiers killed in Afghanistan are speaking out against air strikes and calling for MPs to vote against.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... d-10532248" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ohsocynical
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

yahyah wrote:OhSo, are you advocating a donation of poetry in your signature ?
Ha. Thanks for pointing it out...The brain isn't engaging so well these days.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
yahyah
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Re: Tuesday 1st December 2015

Post by yahyah »

Looks like Dan Jarvis is going to vote with the Tories.
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