Tuesday 1st December 2015

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 6:41 pm

yahyah wrote:Looks like Dan Jarvis is going to vote with the Tories.

Not surprised. Sounded Blairite when I heard him speak. I don't want him as leader.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 6:42 pm

yahyah wrote:Looks like Dan Jarvis is going to vote with the Tories.

Evening

That is a shame

I cannot understand why anyone is coming out saying they will vote for this shambles

I still say if Benn votes with the Tories he has to either resign,be sacked or moved. It is one thing for a back bencher on a free vote to vote as they consider fit, even going against the leader (although I would have a very low opinion of them unless something massively changes before tomorrow) but that luxury should not be extended to the Shadow Foreign Secretary. To my mind his position would be untenable

I have nothing against the guy but he should know this and do the honourable thing

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 6:47 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Looks like Dan Jarvis is going to vote with the Tories.

Evening

That is a shame

I cannot understand why anyone is coming out saying they will vote for this shambles

I still say if Benn votes with the Tories he has to either resign,be sacked or moved. It is one thing for a back bencher on a free vote to vote as they consider fit, even going against the leader (although I would have a very low opinion of them unless something massively changes before tomorrow) but that luxury should not be extended to the Shadow Foreign Secretary. To my mind his position would be untenable

I have nothing against the guy but he should know this and do the honourable thing

And I think that will finish him for being leader if the arguments for the air strikes are not a whole lot better than we have see already....can't see any of the supporters of cameron being easily forgiven....Iraq still weighs heavy on the party and the membership is different than it has been in the past

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 7:22 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Looks like Dan Jarvis is going to vote with the Tories.

Evening

That is a shame

I cannot understand why anyone is coming out saying they will vote for this shambles

I still say if Benn votes with the Tories he has to either resign,be sacked or moved. It is one thing for a back bencher on a free vote to vote as they consider fit, even going against the leader (although I would have a very low opinion of them unless something massively changes before tomorrow) but that luxury should not be extended to the Shadow Foreign Secretary. To my mind his position would be untenable

I have nothing against the guy but he should know this and do the honourable thing
And I think that will finish him for being leader if the arguments for the air strikes are not a whole lot better than we have see already....can't see any of the supporters of cameron being easily forgiven....Iraq still weighs heavy on the party and the membership is different than it has been in the past

I knew people that still hadn't forgiven Labour for Iraq, and were refusing to vote for them in 2015. If the Rebels? Right? Blairites? - whatever, aren't careful, they'll lose more votes than they'll gain in 2020.

My dad was never what you'd call a pacifist, and he used to get disgusted when he thought Labour were running away from a fight, but although he's not here I know he'd be saying Labour are right in asking that arms sales and funding are investigated. Plus of course working out exactly who the 'enemy', is.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 7:30 pm

Darren McCaffreyVerified account
‏@DMcCaffreySKY

LATEST: @LibDem MPs to BACK air strikes in Syria.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:06 pm

"Libdems put UK on brink of war"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:11 pm

Just hearing on the BBC News that David Cameron has said that he would really prefer to take his own Party with him - unanimously - and not have to rely on Labour and others.To think that some Labour MPs might well show less sense and humanity than some Conservatives (although all power to them), is a terrible state to be in. I'm seriously perturbed.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:20 pm

If the following is truly a representation of what the contemptible scumbag said then any Labour MP following him into the lobby is finished from my point of view

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:21 pm

LDV seem very confused about the announcement. And also why Clegg made it, not Farron.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:24 pm

Tom Watson needs to get on Cameron's arse tonight about that.

Not sure you the vote is about that though.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:29 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:If the following is truly a representation of what the contemptible scumbag said then any Labour MP following him into the lobby is finished from my point of view

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bet that went down well with David Davis...if I was him, I'd have thumped him for that.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:32 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Looks like Dan Jarvis is going to vote with the Tories.

Evening

That is a shame

I cannot understand why anyone is coming out saying they will vote for this shambles

I still say if Benn votes with the Tories he has to either resign,be sacked or moved. It is one thing for a back bencher on a free vote to vote as they consider fit, even going against the leader (although I would have a very low opinion of them unless something massively changes before tomorrow) but that luxury should not be extended to the Shadow Foreign Secretary. To my mind his position would be untenable

I have nothing against the guy but he should know this and do the honourable thing
And I think that will finish him for being leader if the arguments for the air strikes are not a whole lot better than we have see already....can't see any of the supporters of cameron being easily forgiven....Iraq still weighs heavy on the party and the membership is different than it has been in the past

Keir Starmer said he's against. Runners and riders for the future!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:33 pm

When I was reading that Guardian article on pensions, I thought I'd look to see if I could find that wonderful article by Ros Altmann which totally demolished the "Broon ate my pension!" nonsense that the frothing Tories come out with. And here it is...

http://www.rosaltmann.com/whathashappened.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Made even more delicious by the fact she is now Minister of State for Pensions in the Lords.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:34 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:If the following is truly a representation of what the contemptible scumbag said then any Labour MP following him into the lobby is finished from my point of view

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's a sign of how worried Dave is getting. It's not going as swimmingly as he thought it would. When it goes wrong, as it will, people are going to remember who walked through which lobby.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:34 pm

Ooh-er. So thousands and thousands of us are terrorist sympathisers.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:34 pm

http://www.solicitorsjournal.com/news/p ... failure-su" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government faces judicial review over failure to support victims of trafficking

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 8:36 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:If the following is truly a representation of what the contemptible scumbag said then any Labour MP following him into the lobby is finished from my point of view

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How many potential Tory rebels are there? With all the focus on Labour, I'd assumed any potential Tory rebellion was pretty insignificant. The lowest number for Labour MPs for the airstrikes I've heard is 30. Surely if 40+ Tories were thinking of voting against that would be pretty newsworthy. The media are being awfully nice to Cameron, holding back on the speculation on the Tory rebellion. They seem happy to report all sorts of random numbers for Labour,regardless of the pressures it puts on the Labour leader. It's quite a blatant double standard.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:03 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:If the following is truly a representation of what the contemptible scumbag said then any Labour MP following him into the lobby is finished from my point of view

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bet that went down well with David Davis...if I was him, I'd have thumped him for that.

Interesting choice of photos heading the article,Cameron thin lipped,shiny and sneering adjacent to Corbyn whose crinkly eyes and smile are quite endearing.
Do you think the guardian might be having a small change of heart?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:08 pm

BBC Radio 4 news quoting same phrase.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:08 pm

I'm finding this more than a little nauseating, tbh, people could be getting killed very soon because of these decisions, people who have already gone through a lot of suffering. No one will put up flags for them or heartfelt poetic messages of sorrow, because when they are counted, if at all, they will be indistinguishable from their tormentors. They don't matter, and even here it was voiced that way, as if it was just a game of numbers. I feel very heavy hearted at the pospect of ordinary people who want to be returned to their ordinary lives, will not make it because of our failure to value them the way we value the lives of our own.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:12 pm

Disabled parking spaces to be axed in Southampton

http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14111404. ... n/?ref=rss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:14 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Tom Watson needs to get on Cameron's arse tonight about that.

Not sure you the vote is about that though.

Well they should not be voting in that way anyway as far as I am concerned but anyone who thinks it is a good idea to vote with Cameron now is clearly very much in favour and has no care that the bulk of their own party has been referred to as 'terrorist sympathisers'

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:29 pm

Former party leader Nick Clegg told Sky News on Tuesday evening that he and his successor, Tim Farron, felt that “on balance, it is better to take action rather than pursue a course of inaction”.

Something must be done.

Pathetic.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:35 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Former party leader Nick Clegg told Sky News on Tuesday evening that he and his successor, Tim Farron, felt that “on balance, it is better to take action rather than pursue a course of inaction”.
Something must be done.

Pathetic.

And that excuse for a 'commentator' Stephen Tall has just tweeted that the 'terrorist sympathiser' jibe is accurate

How low can a party go...I feel so sorry for Charlie Kennedy

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:39 pm

John Baron, Tory MP on why he's voting against. He's a former army Captain.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... eron-libya" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically says Cameron is relying on emotion to make the case, and that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

One of only 15 MPs to vote against Libya. Only Tory to do so.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:41 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Former party leader Nick Clegg told Sky News on Tuesday evening that he and his successor, Tim Farron, felt that “on balance, it is better to take action rather than pursue a course of inaction”.
Something must be done.

Pathetic.

And that excuse for a 'commentator' Stephen Tall has just tweeted that the 'terrorist sympathiser' jibe is accurate

How low can a party go...I feel so sorry for Charlie Kennedy

Looks like those who voted against in 2013 lost their seats. Might get an abstention out of John Pugh, Greg Mullholland and Mark Williams, I suppose. Actually maybe they'll vote against, seeing it's not their government who'll get defeated.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:43 pm

Cameron really is an obscenity. The Man Who Degraded Britain.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:43 pm

Temulkar wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:If the following is truly a representation of what the contemptible scumbag said then any Labour MP following him into the lobby is finished from my point of view

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's a sign of how worried Dave is getting. It's not going as swimmingly as he thought it would. When it goes wrong, as it will, people are going to remember who walked through which lobby.

I think he's fine, sadly. He just hates that people like Corbyn exist. Sometimes he can't stop himself, like at the Conference.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:47 pm

What a weak weak weak argument - almost contemptible

http://www.libdems.org.uk/position_on_syria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:55 pm

Belfast Telegraph ‏@BelTel 12m12 minutes ago
#SyriaVote SDLP leader calls on David Cameron to withdraw 'terrorist sympathisers' remarks http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 51323.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Colum Eastwood

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 9:56 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:If the following is truly a representation of what the contemptible scumbag said then any Labour MP following him into the lobby is finished from my point of view

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's a sign of how worried Dave is getting. It's not going as swimmingly as he thought it would. When it goes wrong, as it will, people are going to remember who walked through which lobby.
I think he's fine, sadly. He just hates that people like Corbyn exist. Sometimes he can't stop himself, like at the Conference.

To clarify I meant Syrian intervention goig wrong, but tommorow will be a lot closer than the media have made believe.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:00 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Belfast Telegraph ‏@BelTel 12m12 minutes ago
#SyriaVote SDLP leader calls on David Cameron to withdraw 'terrorist sympathisers' remarks http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 51323.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Colum Eastwood

That expression about jumping the shark might well be relevant here...wonder how many of his own backbenchers now think he's an utter shit?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:03 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Belfast Telegraph ‏@BelTel 12m12 minutes ago
#SyriaVote SDLP leader calls on David Cameron to withdraw 'terrorist sympathisers' remarks http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 51323.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Colum Eastwood

Hiya, long time no see (or have I not been paying attention amidst my ranting?)

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:05 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Belfast Telegraph ‏@BelTel 12m12 minutes ago
#SyriaVote SDLP leader calls on David Cameron to withdraw 'terrorist sympathisers' remarks http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 51323.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Colum Eastwood
That expression about jumping the shark might well be relevant here...wonder how many of his own backbenchers now think he's an utter shit?

Yeah he will have done himself no favours there, with Labour pro-war mob either. He could really blow it tomorrow if he can control himself.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:08 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:What a weak weak weak argument - almost contemptible

http://www.libdems.org.uk/position_on_syria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is my judgement that, on balance, the five tests I set out have been met as best they can.

That's a bit woolly. Either they've been met, or they haven't. When you're talking about bombing another country, you don't go "ah well, near enough".

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:12 pm

refitman wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:What a weak weak weak argument - almost contemptible

http://www.libdems.org.uk/position_on_syria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is my judgement that, on balance, the five tests I set out have been met as best they can.
That's a bit woolly. Either they've been met, or they haven't. When you're talking about bombing another country, you don't go "ah well, near enough".

It is just waffle isn't it?

They have made a decision and then come up with some guff to try and explain it. Essentially they are saying the believe everything Cameron has told them that he will do but to believe that exhibits huge naïvety as the man is a liar

As you say, to use this sort of argument when you are going to bomb someone is weak in the extreme

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:16 pm

Did he get his way and have PMQs cancelled?

No idea why he couldn't have used the time after PMQs and then continue on Thursday.

Maybe if he answered the dams question and kept his MPs under control it'd get finished on time...

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:17 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Belfast Telegraph ‏@BelTel 12m12 minutes ago
#SyriaVote SDLP leader calls on David Cameron to withdraw 'terrorist sympathisers' remarks http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 51323.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Colum Eastwood

Hiya, long time no see (or have I not been paying attention amidst my ranting?)

I don't post often these days, not a Corbyn supporter so keep my head down rather than cause trouble

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:18 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:If the following is truly a representation of what the contemptible scumbag said then any Labour MP following him into the lobby is finished from my point of view

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's a sign of how worried Dave is getting. It's not going as swimmingly as he thought it would. When it goes wrong, as it will, people are going to remember who walked through which lobby.
I think he's fine, sadly. He just hates that people like Corbyn exist. Sometimes he can't stop himself, like at the Conference.

Classy stuff from Dave as we have come to expect from the man.

Expect him to continue to repeat it, especially when Ken Livingstone turns up on Labour's defence review.

Unfortunately just because it is an outrageous slur, doesn't mean it won't score political points.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:20 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Belfast Telegraph ‏@BelTel 12m12 minutes ago
#SyriaVote SDLP leader calls on David Cameron to withdraw 'terrorist sympathisers' remarks http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 51323.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Colum Eastwood

Hiya, long time no see (or have I not been paying attention amidst my ranting?)
I don't post often these days, not a Corbyn supporter so keep my head down rather than cause trouble

I'm not a 'Corbyn supporter' either but I am okay with the policies he is following so far, although I do admit the communication can be improved

Please post more often as you are always insightful and people such as Tubby and Hindle are of the same mind as you and the heat, I feel, is dropping out of the Corbyn arguments a bit. There are still some brusque discussions but in general they are more polite than a couple of months ago.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:23 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Tom Watson needs to get on Cameron's arse tonight about that.

Not sure you the vote is about that though.
Well they should not be voting in that way anyway as far as I am concerned but anyone who thinks it is a good idea to vote with Cameron now is clearly very much in favour and has no care that the bulk of their own party has been referred to as 'terrorist sympathisers'

Actually I suspect most of the people voting for intervention are very concerned that the Labour Party is being branded as terrorist sympathisers.

Voting in the same lobby as Cameron is not the same as voting for Cameron. This is a superficially free vote for Labour and it should remain so, no matter what our joke of a PM does or says.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:23 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Temulkar wrote: It's a sign of how worried Dave is getting. It's not going as swimmingly as he thought it would. When it goes wrong, as it will, people are going to remember who walked through which lobby.
I think he's fine, sadly. He just hates that people like Corbyn exist. Sometimes he can't stop himself, like at the Conference.
Classy stuff from Dave as we have come to expect from the man.

Expect him to continue to repeat it, especially when Ken Livingstone turns up on Labour's defence review.

Unfortunately just because it is an outrageous slur, doesn't mean it won't score political points.

Just have to point out his support for 'terrorist sympathisers' as well....enough photos of him with Saudis and other unsavoury characters

I am not sure it will score that many points either.....the IRA are no longer at the forefront of people's minds and if we can keep pointing out that ISIS and Cameron have some common 'friends' then that will be more potent than people bringing up photos of the Northern Irish Deputy First Minister from 30 years ago

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:25 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Tom Watson needs to get on Cameron's arse tonight about that.

Not sure you the vote is about that though.
Well they should not be voting in that way anyway as far as I am concerned but anyone who thinks it is a good idea to vote with Cameron now is clearly very much in favour and has no care that the bulk of their own party has been referred to as 'terrorist sympathisers'
Actually I suspect most of the people voting for intervention are very concerned that the Labour Party is being branded as terrorist sympathisers.

Voting in the same lobby as Cameron is not the same as voting for Cameron. This is a superficially free vote for Labour and it should remain so, no matter what our joke of a PM does or says.

Nope...don't agree

They are voting for a motion written by the man who is a liar and so to put their confidence in him to do what he say is naïve - his comments today should also bring that home to them.

The Lib Dems also seem to believe him - fools!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:29 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Belfast Telegraph ‏@BelTel 12m12 minutes ago
#SyriaVote SDLP leader calls on David Cameron to withdraw 'terrorist sympathisers' remarks http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 51323.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Colum Eastwood
That expression about jumping the shark might well be relevant here...wonder how many of his own backbenchers now think he's an utter shit?

The sad thing is, I think a lot of them privately think that. But they'll vote with him.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:31 pm

Willow904 wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:If the following is truly a representation of what the contemptible scumbag said then any Labour MP following him into the lobby is finished from my point of view

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ympathiser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
How many potential Tory rebels are there? With all the focus on Labour, I'd assumed any potential Tory rebellion was pretty insignificant. The lowest number for Labour MPs for the airstrikes I've heard is 30. Surely if 40+ Tories were thinking of voting against that would be pretty newsworthy. The media are being awfully nice to Cameron, holding back on the speculation on the Tory rebellion. They seem happy to report all sorts of random numbers for Labour,regardless of the pressures it puts on the Labour leader. It's quite a blatant double standard.

I think a handful of Tory rebels, maybe ten, at least five. I can't see the we hate Dave UKIP brigade voting with Corbyn, which is to a degree what boosted his rebels last time. I think he has felt for a while he had the numbers, because if he really needed a large Labour rebellion I don't think he would have brought it to the house.

Still he is spectacularly useless at this sort of thing, so who knows.

martinson · Post by **martinson** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:32 pm

Good evening. Just a thought. Maybe the 'terrorist sympathiser' sound byte has been reiterated so as to hit the headlines for the Thursday by-election? The Tories are notorious for politicising events to their advantage and this may be manna for UKIP to use and therefore more pressure on Jeremy Corbyn. Am I too cynical to believe the current Tories could use the bombing and killing of innocents as a ploy to discomfort JC? Nah!

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:34 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: Well they should not be voting in that way anyway as far as I am concerned but anyone who thinks it is a good idea to vote with Cameron now is clearly very much in favour and has no care that the bulk of their own party has been referred to as 'terrorist sympathisers'
Actually I suspect most of the people voting for intervention are very concerned that the Labour Party is being branded as terrorist sympathisers.

Voting in the same lobby as Cameron is not the same as voting for Cameron. This is a superficially free vote for Labour and it should remain so, no matter what our joke of a PM does or says.
Nope...don't agree

They are voting for a motion written by the man who is a liar and so to put their confidence in him to do what he say is naïve - his comments today should also bring that home to them.

The Lib Dems also seem to believe him - fools!

I know you don't agree, so we will have to differ on this.

However it really doesn't help Labour at all when we have Ken Livingstone talking up terrorist propaganda about 7/7. The mood in the Labour membership is not the same as the mood in Labour voters.

Edited to add, other than the bit about Cameron being a liar - which obviously is bang on.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:35 pm

martinson wrote:Good evening. Just a thought. Maybe the 'terrorist sympathiser' sound byte has been reiterated so as to hit the headlines for the Thursday by-election? The Tories are notorious for politicising events to their advantage and this may be manna for UKIP to use and therefore more pressure on Jeremy Corbyn. Am I too cynical to believe the current Tories could use the bombing and killing of innocents as a ploy to discomfort JC? Nah!

Who knows with Clouncy...he is the most contemptible political I have ever seen and I remember Thatcher

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:39 pm

martinson wrote:Good evening. Just a thought. Maybe the 'terrorist sympathiser' sound byte has been reiterated so as to hit the headlines for the Thursday by-election? The Tories are notorious for politicising events to their advantage and this may be manna for UKIP to use and therefore more pressure on Jeremy Corbyn. Am I too cynical to believe the current Tories could use the bombing and killing of innocents as a ploy to discomfort JC? Nah!

That is the plan, but presumably for the General Election.

I would imagine Dave would be happy with a Labour win in Oldham so I think Cameron just forgot himself, or didn't think it would be reported. Or maybe he had consumed a few too many ports before the meeting. Or maybe somebody asked him a question and he got all pink and shouty.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:43 pm

@HowSillyofMe
As you say, to use this sort of argument when you are going to bomb someone is weak in the extreme

Weak? It's bloody criminal...