Monday 4th January 2016

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:06 pm

Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole 18 mins18 minutes ago

Oh my. Corbyn himself comes out of oppo leader's to demand journalists leave the corridor while he conducts reshuffle. Full on teacher mode.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:19 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole 18 mins18 minutes ago

Oh my. Corbyn himself comes out of oppo leader's to demand journalists leave the corridor while he conducts reshuffle. Full on teacher mode.

Good for Corbyn. Why the bloody hell do the press think they have a right to know before those involved in the reshuffle do ....?

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:21 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole 18 mins18 minutes ago

Oh my. Corbyn himself comes out of oppo leader's to demand journalists leave the corridor while he conducts reshuffle. Full on teacher mode.

Good for him.
If they can't behave themselves they should be moved out of the way.
One of the things I like best about Jeremy Corbyn is his refusal to take any shit from journalists.
And Happy New Year to all here.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:21 pm

Happy New Year

Post by **refitman** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:32 pm

Some bang up reporting going on:
At 14:38:

According to the New Statesman, Michael Dugher, the shadow culture secretary, will be sacked in the reshuffle. Stephen Bush and George Eaton are also saying that Emily Thornberry is expected to replace Hilary Benn as shadow foreign secretary and that Lisa Nandy, the shadow energy secretary, is a possible for shadow defence secretary because she is sceptical about Trident.

At 15:07:

Someone near the top of Labour is advising me to be sceptical of the latest New Statesman reshuffle reports. (See 2.38pm.) So perhaps Michael Dugher will be safe after all.

From AS.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:38 pm

AS quotes "someone near the top of Labour" - McDonnell, perhaps? I expect he is one of the few who really has an idea what JC is planning.......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:44 pm

ephemerid wrote:Actually, I really DO think that pension ages should be equalised between men and women.

It has always struck me as unfair that women have better (on average) longevity that men, but men have to work longer.

It has also always struck me as unfair that women, who due to caring/family responsibilites, have (on average) a smaller pension as they have not always been able to work in order to get the NI conts they need working outside the home.

What should be happening, IMHO, is for all workers to be allowed to retire and get a state pension at 60. It's all very well having office workers or people like judges working till they're nearly 70 - but firefighters, police, nurses, builders, carers, shop/warehouse staff?

The governments' theory is that no person should spend more than a third of their life on the state pension.
In the UK, the average age of death is 80.54 years.
Retiring at 60 means that a person spends 20 years and 6 months as a pensioner.
That's a quarter of life expectancy - so the entire basis of the increase in pensionable age collapses.

That makes perfect sense, Ephemerid, it's logical, economical and fair. The peace of mind resulting from the
universal policy you've described frees up energy wasted on employment anxiety.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:47 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:I'm hearing rumours that Simon Danczuk is to be reinstated and installed in the newly created post of shadow admiralissimo of state first class for sexting HOT HOT HOT babes.

And by 'hearing', please be aware that I mean 'making up'.

(my bold)

Your sense of humour is priceless. Thank you for sharing it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:49 pm

Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Harry Cole ‏@MrHarryCole 18 mins18 minutes ago

Oh my. Corbyn himself comes out of oppo leader's to demand journalists leave the corridor while he conducts reshuffle. Full on teacher mode.
Good for him.
If they can't behave themselves they should be moved out of the way.
One of the things I like best about Jeremy Corbyn is his refusal to take any shit from journalists.
And Happy New Year to all here.

I'm in full agreement with you there, Rebecca.
Happy New Year to you and your family.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 3:59 pm

Karen Buck

You have to love the Benefit Cap. Westminster Council (housing) moving daughter/carer to cheaper area, while Westminster (social services)..
....assess disabled parents as then needing 3 care visits a day to replace support daughter would have given if she had only lived locally.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:00 pm

Deliberate fascistic intent.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:04 pm

Blwddyn Newydd Dda!

Why does Andrew Sparrow rely so much on ex/former Blairite twitter groupies for his column (rhetorical question!)

If we know anything of Lance Price we know that he would find fault in anything anybody but Blair or Mandelson proposed for Labour. Then he would rush on to LBC to give us the benefit of his unimpeachable knowledge. The mans a media tart!

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:10 pm

Well I thought between the two previous retirement ages, 60 and 65, but yes it makes sense for it to be 60, not least because there are young people who also need work, and we have a crazy system that actively works against real job creation and then punishes people across the spectrum for not finding work. The Parris/IDS/Osbourne et. view of what our lives are for will never be what it really is. We don't exist for the state. Fascistic, yes. And Fascist too? I think so we crossed that line quite a while ago when we started punishing poorly people for being poorly, and poor people for being poor. And legislating to ensure that the punishment is inescapable unless you have wealth.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:13 pm

Ten minutes ago, the blog at the other place

Barry Gardiner, who is currently a shadow environment
minister, declined to say whether he had been offered
a new job after leaving Jeremy Corbyn’s office with a
smile on his face. He told my colleague Rajeev Syal.

'A lot of people come in and out of his office with a smile on their face.
I don’t think I’ll be the only one today. You shouldn’t read to much in to
that. I think I’ve probably said enough.'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... fc85528f4e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:17 pm

Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 1m1 minute ago
Commons debate on 60,000 annual deaths from air pollution is postponed with my consent. Difficulty with availability of suitable minister.

Suitable might be one prepared to turn up ...?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:17 pm

'You shouldn't read too much into that'

That's probably some of the best political advice from Labour leadership I've read in awhile.
I liked Corbyn running press out the room, too.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:28 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ce#history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guidance
Academies financial management and governance self-assessment

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:32 pm

steve hawkes ✔ @steve_hawkes
Hearing Hilary Benn could stay - but Lord Falconer could go - in the beautifully planned and seamlessly executed Reshuffle...

Ha. Sounds about right to me, if true. Falconer's been gabbing to the press a lot, hasn't he. This reshuffle is shaping up to be less about policy differences and more about cutting the media out of the loop, if you ask me.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:34 pm

@Rebecca

Happy New Year!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:49 pm

Junior doctors to strike after talks break down. (BBC News)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:51 pm

Andrew GregoryVerified account
‏@andrewgregory
Junior doctors to go on strike Jan 12, Jan 26, Feb 10 #juniorcontract

Andrew Gregory ‏@andrewgregory 26s26 seconds ago
Porter: "Junior doctors have been left with no option." #juniorcontract

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:56 pm

All very well,but what is the fart count in the revenge reshuffle?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 4:58 pm

Wayne David ‏@WayneDavid_MP 2m2 minutes ago
Retweeted Leighton Andrews (@LeightonAndrews):

UKIP launch their Welsh campaign - by getting their Welsh wrong.... http://fb.me/4klnTC9ab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:10 pm

seeingclearly wrote:Well I thought between the two previous retirement ages, 60 and 65, but yes it makes sense for it to be 60, not least because there are young people who also need work

That's the lump of labour fallacy. There isn't a fixed number of jobs, so people retiring don't necessarily create a space for someone else. It's the same fallacy that says immigrants reduce the jobs available to natives.

60 for everybody? That is unaffordable.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:13 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:60 for everybody? That is unaffordable.

It's affordable. You're inappropriately applying the zero-sum sovereign currency fallacy.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:23 pm

I'm fuming after just having heard a 'shadow minister' reported on Radio 4 saying that if we thought things were bad and they (those members of the PLP who aren't happy) weren't supporting Corbyn now it could get a whole lot worse if the reshuffle isn't what they want .... for instance we haven't yet seen shadow cabinet members walking out while Corbyn speaks in the HoC - or planting questions to Cameron that allows Cameron a cheap quip at Corbyn's expense - and if it takes a whole year of them doing that to get Corbyn out then so be it .....

I'd like to know who that was. And I'd like them out of the shadow cabinet. There's absolutely no excuse for that kind of public undermining of the party.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:24 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:60 for everybody? That is unaffordable.
It's affordable. You're inappropriately applying the zero-sum sovereign currency fallacy.

You need a decent number of people of working age. Higher GDP, more of it available to invest.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:26 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm fuming after just having heard a 'shadow minister' reported on Radio 4 saying that if we thought things were bad and they (those members of the PLP who aren't happy) weren't supporting Corbyn now it could get a whole lot worse if the reshuffle isn't what they want .... for instance we haven't yet seen shadow cabinet members walking out while Corbyn speaks in the HoC - or planting questions to Cameron that allows Cameron a cheap quip at Corbyn's expense - and if it takes a whole year of them doing that to get Corbyn out then so be it .....

I'd like to know who that was. And I'd like them out of the shadow cabinet. There's absolutely no excuse for that kind of public undermining of the party.

Well, maybe they'll be one of the ones sacked.

But a reshuffle after 4 months isn't helping himself.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:27 pm

And to cap all that - we've got Danczuk still milking the limelight and claiming his troubles are down to Corbynites .... inevitable .... and now, apparently, a set up.

LBC ‏@LBC 10m10 minutes ago
Simon Danczuk says he “won’t rule out” that he’s been the victim of a set-up http://l-bc.co/Listen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:27 pm

The stirrers are out in force on Twitter today...

I suppose we should take heart from it, because they only seem to do it when Corbyn looks like a threat to the Cons.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:28 pm

Don't worry about him. He's a dead duck.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:29 pm

The Labour MP Jess Phillips told the same programme that Jeremy Corbyn was guilty of “low-level non-violent misogyny” when he failed to give any of the top jobs when he appointed his first shadow cabinet in September.

The fuck?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:29 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm fuming after just having heard a 'shadow minister' reported on Radio 4 saying that if we thought things were bad and they (those members of the PLP who aren't happy) weren't supporting Corbyn now it could get a whole lot worse if the reshuffle isn't what they want .... for instance we haven't yet seen shadow cabinet members walking out while Corbyn speaks in the HoC - or planting questions to Cameron that allows Cameron a cheap quip at Corbyn's expense - and if it takes a whole year of them doing that to get Corbyn out then so be it .....

I'd like to know who that was. And I'd like them out of the shadow cabinet. There's absolutely no excuse for that kind of public undermining of the party.
Well, maybe they'll be one of the ones sacked.

But a reshuffle after 4 months isn't helping himself.

Not buying it Tubby. That's gross nasty stuff - what kind of person thinks that is acceptable behaviour. They should resign rather than think about - let alone carry out - tactics like that.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:31 pm

@ cja, ephie and others affected.

This is a serious question and I don't mean to be critical.

Did you really think you were getting your state pension at 60 until you got the recent letter?

The first change was in 1995 when my retirement date changed to just over 64. I knew about it, wasn't pleased about it, not least because I have older sisters who weren't affected, but it was an obvious move towards gender equality and I would have thought it very odd if it hadn't happened.

I was furious as anyone about the second change, but they didn't entirely ignore the protests, it was modified.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:31 pm

refitman wrote:
The Labour MP Jess Phillips told the same programme that Jeremy Corbyn was guilty of “low-level non-violent misogyny” when he failed to give any of the top jobs when he appointed his first shadow cabinet in September.
The fuck?

I know. Huge sigh when I saw that.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:34 pm

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 6m6 minutes ago
Paul Waugh Retweeted Harry Cole
Catch22 Question this one. If someone threatens to run against Labour isn't that 'auto-expulsion' offence?

Harry ColeVerified account
‏@MrHarryCole
Simon Danczuk does not rule out running against the Labour Party in 2020 in Rochdale if they boot him out of the party.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:34 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm fuming after just having heard a 'shadow minister' reported on Radio 4 saying that if we thought things were bad and they (those members of the PLP who aren't happy) weren't supporting Corbyn now it could get a whole lot worse if the reshuffle isn't what they want .... for instance we haven't yet seen shadow cabinet members walking out while Corbyn speaks in the HoC - or planting questions to Cameron that allows Cameron a cheap quip at Corbyn's expense - and if it takes a whole year of them doing that to get Corbyn out then so be it .....

I'd like to know who that was. And I'd like them out of the shadow cabinet. There's absolutely no excuse for that kind of public undermining of the party.
Well, maybe they'll be one of the ones sacked.

But a reshuffle after 4 months isn't helping himself.

Okay. So what would you suggest. That he carry on with a bunch of discontents, who are more interested in stirring up trouble within the party, than tackling the Tories? They're bloody spoilt for choice. There's absolutely no excuse for what they're doing and the sooner they realise it, the better off we'll all be.

I'd be quite happy for them to stay where they are, but some have put themselves beyond the pale. And it's certainly not fair to the new intake of MPs.

If there's rot in the woodwork, you can't repair it. You don't leave it. You cut it out and burn it.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:37 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:And to cap all that - we've got Danczuk still milking the limelight and claiming his troubles are down to Corbynites .... inevitable .... and now, apparently, a set up.

LBC ‏@LBC 10m10 minutes ago
Simon Danczuk says he “won’t rule out” that he’s been the victim of a set-up http://l-bc.co/Listen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cllr John Edwards ‏@JohnEdwards33 2 hrs2 hours ago

Is there a deeper irony than Simon Danczuk complaining about people taking money from the tabloids to make allegations about other people?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:45 pm

Neutral statement.That is why I plough my lonely furrow,deem targeted benefits/allowances /social provision as cost saving investment which both caters for increased need and employment opportunities,instead of pissing away on attempts to deny,reduce on the impossibity of savings accrued from cost saving arrangements ,ultimately leading to portraying fascistic falsehoods as burdensome cost.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:54 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm fuming after just having heard a 'shadow minister' reported on Radio 4 saying that if we thought things were bad and they (those members of the PLP who aren't happy) weren't supporting Corbyn now it could get a whole lot worse if the reshuffle isn't what they want .... for instance we haven't yet seen shadow cabinet members walking out while Corbyn speaks in the HoC - or planting questions to Cameron that allows Cameron a cheap quip at Corbyn's expense - and if it takes a whole year of them doing that to get Corbyn out then so be it .....

I'd like to know who that was. And I'd like them out of the shadow cabinet. There's absolutely no excuse for that kind of public undermining of the party.
Well, maybe they'll be one of the ones sacked.

But a reshuffle after 4 months isn't helping himself.

Okay. So what would you suggest. That he carry on with a bunch of discontents, who are more interested in stirring up trouble within the party, than tackling the Tories? They're bloody spoilt for choice. There's absolutely no excuse for what they're doing and the sooner they realise it, the better off we'll all be.

I'd be quite happy for them to stay where they are, but some have put themselves beyond the pale. And it's certainly not fair to the new intake of MPs.

If there's rot in the woodwork, you can't repair it. You don't leave it. You cut it out and burn it.

I'm OK with swapping Benn with another senior role. Health, Home Secretary, DWP would all be OK, and the shadows in all of those are closer to Corbyn on foreign policy.

Concentrate on stuff the existing team can agree on. Flood defences is exactly the sort of thing. Nukes is a complete non-starter.

And realise that there are lots of good Labour people who don't appreciate the constant "red Tory" stuff. And don't do fundraisers for people who abuse members of your allies as "warmongers".

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:56 pm

Darren Leathley ‏@DarrenLeathley Jan 3

Farage assassination plot turns out to be him being ignorant of a Volvo safety recall. Cunning Swedes, knowing he'd never read it.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 5:57 pm

Labour Press seems good and lively.

That's what I'm talking about- tons there that is strong v the Tories.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 6:00 pm

Not happy with both sides,none of which I am a part.If you are pissing me off ,you can guarantee Labour are in deep trouble.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 6:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Well, maybe they'll be one of the ones sacked.

But a reshuffle after 4 months isn't helping himself.

Okay. So what would you suggest. That he carry on with a bunch of discontents, who are more interested in stirring up trouble within the party, than tackling the Tories? They're bloody spoilt for choice. There's absolutely no excuse for what they're doing and the sooner they realise it, the better off we'll all be.

I'd be quite happy for them to stay where they are, but some have put themselves beyond the pale. And it's certainly not fair to the new intake of MPs.

If there's rot in the woodwork, you can't repair it. You don't leave it. You cut it out and burn it.
I'm OK with swapping Benn with another senior role. Health, Home Secretary, DWP would all be OK, and the shadows in all of those are closer to Corbyn on foreign policy.

Concentrate on stuff the existing team can agree on. Flood defences is exactly the sort of thing. Nukes is a complete non-starter.

And realise that there are lots of good Labour people who don't appreciate the constant "red Tory" stuff. And don't do fundraisers for people who abuse members of your allies as "warmongers".

I'm getting sick to the back teeth of 'Labour supporters' who Tweet rumours, and generally play into the media's hands.
They're either too ignorant to see how they're being manipulated, or too thick to care about the damage they're doing.

And yes they're going to be called Red Tories, because what else do you call someone who's aiding and abetting the Tories. Call it whatever name you want. In my book it's aiding and abetting.

We shouldn't be giving the Tories any chances. They're the enemy. Not Corbyn or his supporters.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 6:07 pm

Jeremy Corbyn joins activists at King's Cross for rail fare rises protest

Speaking to LBC radio on Monday, Corbyn said the UK’s railways
were becoming increasingly unaffordable for commuters.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ings-cross" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour has calculated that commuters are paying an average of 25% more for rail season tickets
since David Cameron took office. The shadow transport secretary, Lilian Greenwood, said it meant
passengers have been hit by a “truly staggering” rise of up to £2,000 in cash terms since 2010.

Busy day, busy day...protesting, advocating for affordable, reliable public transportation, Tory government frantic, searching for the definition of 'hard-working', Labour non-reshuffle gossip, twenty-seven flood warnings still up, one-hundred fifty-six flood alerts, Tories selling weapons to people scaring the hell out of people in other countries forcing them to flee, becoming refugees, escaping death, pollution making the population ill or dead, NHS junior doctors forced to strike for the first time in forty years, Tory government don't know negotiation, compromise or respect, classrooms without teachers due to misery conditions, Dave's EU referendum causing business insecurity, infrastructure falling down and regular people can't pay their bills.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 6:07 pm

Just state Tory bastards a few times,I am easily pleased.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 6:08 pm

Meanwhile BTL on the junior doctors strike story some are suggesting they should all be sacked and replaced by doctors from overseas ....

Never mind that many of them are already doctors from overseas - or that there is a serious recruitment crisis in the NHS at present - or that junior doctors are said to be leaving for overseas jobs in unprecedented numbers ....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 6:08 pm

HindleA wrote:Just state Tory bastards a few times,I am easily pleased.

That was the essence of my last post.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 6:11 pm

Oh eck - my temper just got worse - just had to turn the radio down as Kuennsberg started with her oddly stressed pronouncements.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Jan, 2016 6:12 pm

Make them do their own operations.