Thursday 21st January 2016

Post by **refitman** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 7:09 am

Morning all.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 8:39 am

Morning.

Just been reading the Guardian's spin on Labour membership.

Ok, maybe there has been a lot of higher paid city dwellers joining, but in my very rural, not affluent, constituency there's been a 300% or more [if my sums are right] increase in members since May 2015. The postponed hustings and ballot for our Assembly candidate on the 30th may show how many are elderly, the article says there aren't many joining.

Is it any surprise there may be more people who can comfortably afford membership represented than those who are struggling to make ends meet ? Even reduced membership fees could be a stretch for some households. As a member you also get a lot of begging letters for party funds too, something that may put people off as they don't want to feel they can't afford the donation.

I got a letter from Welsh Labour yesterday, asking for a donation of £125 for May. My husband also got one.
Must admit that I've put the letters on the things to do pile, having had such an expensive month with emergency building repairs and unforeseen domestic expenses.
If the letter had asked for a donation...no prompting as to how much...We'd probably have given something substantial by today.

Poor psychology from Labour's fund raising department ?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 9:32 am

Morning all.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 9:46 am

@yahyah re the new Labour members

The membership fees are adjustable so if you have a low income there's a pretty low fee - but yes it may well affect some people. I think there's probably an element of simple population densities involved as well - there are going to be far more people in London and the bigger cities than out here in the sticks - and it's going to be easier to reach and involve them than it is in rural areas. Same with older members ... there are quite a few older members here who aren't on the internet so they won't be getting most of the communications. They rely on a few of the longer term members ringing them up to make sure they hear about important stuff.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 9:48 am

You scratch my back....

George Osborne backs Christine Lagarde for second term at IMF

http://gu.com/p/4g27t" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 10:00 am

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Just been reading the Guardian's spin on Labour membership.

Ok, maybe there has been a lot of higher paid city dwellers joining, but in my very rural, not affluent, constituency there's been a 300% or more [if my sums are right] increase in members since May 2015. The postponed hustings and ballot for our Assembly candidate on the 30th may show how many are elderly, the article says there aren't many joining.

Is it any surprise there may be more people who can comfortably afford membership represented than those who are struggling to make ends meet ? Even reduced membership fees could be a stretch for some households. As a member you also get a lot of begging letters for party funds too, something that may put people off as they don't want to feel they can't afford the donation.

I got a letter from Welsh Labour yesterday, asking for a donation of £125 for May. My husband also got one.
Must admit that I've put the letters on the things to do pile, having had such an expensive month with emergency building repairs and unforeseen domestic expenses.
If the letter had asked for a donation...no prompting as to how much...We'd probably have given something substantial by today.

Poor psychology from Labour's fund raising department ?

Morning all.
Firstly,so what if more well paid people are joining Labour?The more the merrier.If the figures were showing most new members were unemployed it would be spun as bad for Labour too.Everything is bad for Labour.
I had a letter from East Midlands Labour yesterday asking for a donation of £32 or whatever I could afford.This seems much less offputting than asking for £125!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 10:04 am

The spin from the Graun is exactly that - spin.

Still, didn't Dugher (for it was he) boast to the Torygraph that he was going to recruit 150k working class "moderates" to the party so we could be rid of Corbyn?

That should fix it

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 10:07 am

PoliticsHome ‏@politicshome 3m3 minutes ago
Laughs and heckling in the Commons when John Whittingdale says: "It is not for me to tell the BBC how to spend their resources."

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 10:15 am

Strong statement from Jack Dromey regarding the crime statistics, this "security" threat needs bringing down from the macro level of Trident to the granular level of local policing. The Tories should be getting hammered on policing. Let's see what Dromey and Burnham can do.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 10:21 am

Just caught up with yesterdays' posts - Thanks for the update, OhSo.

The response from Ann Black was typical of the sort of thing I get from Labour people most of the time - viz: we have to think about reforming welfare (that bloody word again); we have to think about getting old voters back (ie. let's not talk about welfare); we have to get the policy right.......and when I write to people it's always the same should they deign to reply......

It is also fairly typical that the actual points don't get addressed - what has the fact that Angela Eagle set up Your Britain and people could see what others were saying got to do with the main issue which is that contributors did not get a response? Also typical is this "change the narrative"
and as HindleA rightly pointed out much of that narrative was set by Labour.

It's very frustrating.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 10:29 am

Some of the comments btl on Crispin Blunts' popper problem are very,very funny.
However,and please don't take offence at my old fashioned views as I'm not trying to upset anyone,but,I want my MPs to be worrying about education,housing,the economy,nhs etc.The bedrock of the country.Not telling us all that they take anal relaxants for sexual purposes,or drink too much and have a weakness for young girls etc.
I want some dignity,empathy and ,dare I say it,respectability from our representatives.
Also looking at you Chancellor.Please stop sitting on the front bench looking like you're off your head on something.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 10:54 am

Are there by-elections today Anatoly?

Any chance of some good news later on?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:14 am

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 13m13 minutes ago
Govt sources stress action has already been taken against Russia over killing of #Litvinenko 1/2

Is that it then? Why have the enquiry if you are not going to do anything about the results? On Newsnight they were saying that very clear signals needed to be sent to Putin - i.e. freezing assets and stopping travel of senior Putin bods. Looks as though nothing is going to happen.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:16 am

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 1m1 minute ago
It wd be craven of PM to do nothing. An abdication of his responsibilities - #litvinenko lawyer

Craven - that's a good word for it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:18 am

Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 31s31 seconds ago
Big news in the Commons. “Weetabix is a delicious and nutritious breakfast cereal”, says Philip Hollobone

What bit of Commons business is he talking out now?

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:24 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 13m13 minutes ago
Govt sources stress action has already been taken against Russia over killing of #Litvinenko 1/2
Is that it then? Why have the enquiry if you are not going to do anything about the results? On Newsnight they were saying that very clear signals needed to be sent to Putin - i.e. freezing assets and stopping travel of senior Putin bods. Looks as though nothing is going to happen.

I expect Cameron to look very stern,maybe even aghast at such dastardly deeds.
Probably practising in front of a mirror right now.
So we can all rest assured that Putin is suitably cowed and won't do it again.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:32 am

@yahyah

Mr Riots got a letter from Welsh Labour yesterday too. His asked if he could donate £20. Looks like they might base the amount they suggest you could donate on previous donations or membership type. Bit more sensitive. But shame if it alienates those who have given generously before.

Note to self. I must remember never to give more than £20 in a go.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:34 am

Unhealthy survivors and the A&E crisis.....local healthcare inequalities.
https://cooksonblog.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Has links to the research reports.

Conclusion

Reducing healthcare inequality is a matter of social justice. Since the NHS is under such severe pressure from preventable emergencies arising from social inequality, it is also a matter of common sense.

Common sense? No chance of the govt taking any notice then.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:34 am

Rebecca wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 13m13 minutes ago
Govt sources stress action has already been taken against Russia over killing of #Litvinenko 1/2
Is that it then? Why have the enquiry if you are not going to do anything about the results? On Newsnight they were saying that very clear signals needed to be sent to Putin - i.e. freezing assets and stopping travel of senior Putin bods. Looks as though nothing is going to happen.
I expect Cameron to look very stern,maybe even aghast at such dastardly deeds.
Probably practising in front of a mirror right now.
So we can all rest assured that Putin is suitably cowed and won't do it again.

Cam will be placating Putin and Saudi Arabia ... while giving Corbyn hell for supposedly endangering our national security. Shakes head.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:38 am

StephenDolan wrote:You scratch my back....

George Osborne backs Christine Lagarde for second term at IMF

http://gu.com/p/4g27t" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought she was being investigated for tax evasion? or something like that?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:41 am

FWIW I got asked for £20 or what you can afford request from Labour,which I found a bit rum they should be paying me for putting up with them.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:42 am

Rebecca wrote:
yahyah wrote:Morning.

Just been reading the Guardian's spin on Labour membership.

Ok, maybe there has been a lot of higher paid city dwellers joining, but in my very rural, not affluent, constituency there's been a 300% or more [if my sums are right] increase in members since May 2015. The postponed hustings and ballot for our Assembly candidate on the 30th may show how many are elderly, the article says there aren't many joining.

Is it any surprise there may be more people who can comfortably afford membership represented than those who are struggling to make ends meet ? Even reduced membership fees could be a stretch for some households. As a member you also get a lot of begging letters for party funds too, something that may put people off as they don't want to feel they can't afford the donation.

I got a letter from Welsh Labour yesterday, asking for a donation of £125 for May. My husband also got one.
Must admit that I've put the letters on the things to do pile, having had such an expensive month with emergency building repairs and unforeseen domestic expenses.
If the letter had asked for a donation...no prompting as to how much...We'd probably have given something substantial by today.

Poor psychology from Labour's fund raising department ?

Morning all.
Firstly,so what if more well paid people are joining Labour?The more the merrier.If the figures were showing most new members were unemployed it would be spun as bad for Labour too.Everything is bad for Labour.
I had a letter from East Midlands Labour yesterday asking for a donation of £32 or whatever I could afford.This seems much less offputting than asking for £125!

I ignore the missives asking for donations ... I have to.

If the Tories manage to get through legislation which affects funding, then I'll send what I can but until then, I'm afraid this well is dry.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:47 am

ephemerid wrote:Just caught up with yesterdays' posts - Thanks for the update, OhSo.

The response from Ann Black was typical of the sort of thing I get from Labour people most of the time - viz: we have to think about reforming welfare (that bloody word again); we have to think about getting old voters back (ie. let's not talk about welfare); we have to get the policy right.......and when I write to people it's always the same should they deign to reply......

It is also fairly typical that the actual points don't get addressed - what has the fact that Angela Eagle set up Your Britain and people could see what others were saying got to do with the main issue which is that contributors did not get a response? Also typical is this "change the narrative"
and as HindleA rightly pointed out much of that narrative was set by Labour.

It's very frustrating.

Agree. I read it over a few times then went to bed non the wiser over what she'd written. I'd hate to think it was a standard letter, but it looked suspiciously so.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 11:50 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:@yahyah

Mr Riots got a letter from Welsh Labour yesterday too. His asked if he could donate £20. Looks like they might base the amount they suggest you could donate on previous donations or membership type. Bit more sensitive. But shame if it alienates those who have given generously before.

Note to self. I must remember never to give more than £20 in a go.

The ones I get are usually asking for £20.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 12:02 pm

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 8m8 minutes ago
Andy Burnham shadow home suggests expel all FSB officers in UK, rethink Duma relations, challenge 2018 world cup in Russia.

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 9m9 minutes ago
Burnham claims Theresa May response on Litvinenko, with rhetoric not matched by action, amounts to an attempt to 'appease' Russia.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 12:25 pm

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 4/8403.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

-the Quality of the Department for Work and Pensions' Explanatory Memoranda; - Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

"in each case, the Explanatory Memorandum (EM) accompanying the instrument was minimalist, failing to include basic information such as the number of claimants likely to be affected or an indication of the sums involved"

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 12:29 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Are there by-elections today Anatoly?

Any chance of some good news later on?

Six today, busiest week for a while.

As for good news, let us wait and see

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 12:31 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Are there by-elections today Anatoly?

Any chance of some good news later on?
Six today, busiest week for a while.

As for good news, let us wait and see

Ah, you tease

Post by **refitman** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 12:32 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Are there by-elections today Anatoly?

Any chance of some good news later on?
Six today, busiest week for a while.

As for good news, let us wait and see

Ooh, you tease.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 12:34 pm

@Stephen - snap!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 12:45 pm

Not a tease in this instance, honest. Though they do include some seats Labour should do decently in........

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 1:06 pm

Tom Blenkinsop Retweeted
Scott Arthur ‏@DrScottThinks 6h6 hours ago Edinburgh, Scotland
Former SNP adviser Alex Bell says party are 'Thatcher's children to a person'

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/ ... ren-person" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 1:08 pm

Huw Irranca-Davies ‏@IrrancaDaviesMP 50m50 minutes ago
UKIP leader Farage says #NHS should be scrapped and US-style private health insurance introduced. That's us warned! http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/nigel-fara ... ts-5007340" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Post by **refitman** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 1:18 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Huw Irranca-Davies ‏@IrrancaDaviesMP 50m50 minutes ago
UKIP leader Farage says #NHS should be scrapped and US-style private health insurance introduced. That's us warned! http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/nigel-fara ... ts-5007340" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

So, he's changed his mind again?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 1:22 pm

refitman wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Huw Irranca-Davies ‏@IrrancaDaviesMP 50m50 minutes ago
UKIP leader Farage says #NHS should be scrapped and US-style private health insurance introduced. That's us warned! http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/nigel-fara ... ts-5007340" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
So, he's changed his mind again?

The article says he claims he was told to drop his previous commitment to an insurance based NHS because Ukip colleagues were so worried about the electoral damage ... so he did. The article claims he's given another interview to the BBC saying the basis of the NHS will have to be debated again ...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 1:29 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tom Blenkinsop Retweeted
Scott Arthur ‏@DrScottThinks 6h6 hours ago Edinburgh, Scotland
Former SNP adviser Alex Bell says party are 'Thatcher's children to a person'

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/ ... ren-person" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

It certainly chimes with my impression. The SNP is a strange beast. Some of their proposals are very interesting, such as on land reform and local income tax, but these never seem to come to anything. Judge them on their actions and I struggle to see how they differ much from New Labour.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 1:46 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
refitman wrote: So, he's changed his mind again?
The article says he claims he was told to drop his previous commitment to an insurance based NHS because Ukip colleagues were so worried about the electoral damage ... so he did. The article claims he's given another interview to the BBC saying the basis of the NHS will have to be debated again ...
So he lied for electoral gain and has now gone back to espousing the view he always held.

That's normal-bloke-tells-it-straight-not-like-a-politician-at-all Nigel Farage. Do people still buy into his schtick?

He is a complete facade ... and a pretty flimsy one at that. He seems to get away with all sorts - and doesn't think it matters when he admits as much - e.g. his ludicrous claims re an assassination plot when the wheel on his car came off.

Facade Farage.

Very glad we may well have Irranca-Davies as a Welsh AM soon. He will be able to properly take it to Ukip. And if Ukip are likely to get a serious step up in UK power positions via the Welsh Assembly (shivers with horror) we are going to need as much counter power as we can get.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 1:57 pm

AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow 6m6 minutes ago
Cameron says he is 'not in a hurry' to get EU deal by February - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 007cd1cc4d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

In other words - the negotiation is stalling amidst the Dublin accord shifts?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 2:08 pm

Owen Jones Retweeted
Class ‏@Classthinktank 2h2 hours ago
After @OwenJones84's piece, check out our paper explaining why so many countries are returning to public ownership http://classonline.org.uk/pubs/item/ren ... -ownership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Owen Jones Retweeted
Bridget Phillipson ‏@bphillipsonMP 2h2 hours ago
@OwenJones84 Hi Owen. Worth looking at our experience in NE & difficulties faced:
http://www.bridgetphillipson.com/bridge ... ard_report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

http://www.renewal.org.uk/articles/rout ... e-and-wear" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Interesting reports linked to in both of these tweets.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 2:21 pm

Luke Loy had a life, until his benefits started falling away
Frances Ryan
Sanctioning a schizophrenic man when he fell into difficulties, as the DWP did, was an aggressive and destructive way to treat someone so vulnerable
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... vulnerable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The latest comment BTL on this is simply ... 'Bastards'.

Sums it up.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 2:34 pm

Senior Labour Party sources, STFU, you're not helping

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 3:01 pm

My referendum? Political commentators would be using that phrase for years if a Labour leader had made such a claim.....

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 3:12 pm

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tom Blenkinsop Retweeted
Scott Arthur ‏@DrScottThinks 6h6 hours ago Edinburgh, Scotland
Former SNP adviser Alex Bell says party are 'Thatcher's children to a person'

https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/ ... ren-person" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
It certainly chimes with my impression. The SNP is a strange beast. Some of their proposals are very interesting, such as on land reform and local income tax, but these never seem to come to anything. Judge them on their actions and I struggle to see how they differ much from New Labour.

One unequivocally good thing they have done - the law on vicarious liability.

A change the rest of the UK should follow ASAP - but won't as long as the Tories are in power.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 4:05 pm

Eric Hargrave ‏@eric_hargrave 12 mins12 minutes ago
Good video by the Labour Party cataloging what Corbyn has achieved in his first 4 months & our positive alternatives " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's only been four months. A blink in the longer scheme of things.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 4:30 pm

4:30 and it isn't dark yet.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 4:47 pm

Individual tax relief has certainly leapt up under Osborne.

09-10 740million
14-15 1180million

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 5:00 pm

Excellent and very scary read by Paul Mason.

Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 5h5 hours ago
As 3rd boom-bust cycle gathers momentum, this time it’s different. Unfortunately. Blog: http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-bl ... rends/4336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

... A lot of people on social media are asking: what should governments do? And that’s partly the problem: there are things individual governments and central banks can do. China can devalue, America can inflate away its debt a little, the Eurozone can print more money and target it better, Germany can abandon its “black zero” policy (it will have to anyway because of the refugee crisis).

What we’re not seeing this time is the kind of co-ordinated political action of the kind Gordon Brown attempted at the G20 in London in September 2009. All national politicians are now looking over their shoulders to threats at home: Merkel to Pegida, the centrist politicians in the US to Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, Hollande to the Front National.

And investors read the newspapers. They can sense the different atmosphere, the exhaustion of the political cycle in the USA and Germany, and that too is different to 2008.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 5:11 pm

Excellent news.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... -transport" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DfT agrees to transfer London suburban services to TfL oversight. It'll still be privately run, but it's a different model of privatization (called the concession model) where TfL set all the fares. It's under a single "brand" (London Overground), which has caught on so well that most people think it's publicly run.

This model seems to work well. Interesting that it's taken so long for the DfT to agree though.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 5:22 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Excellent news.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... -transport" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DfT agrees to transfer London suburban services to TfL oversight. It'll still be privately run, but it's a different model of privatization (called the concession model) where TfL set all the fares. It's under a single "brand" (London Overground), which has caught on so well that most people think it's publicly run.

This model seems to work well. Interesting that it's taken so long for the DfT to agree though.

That's sort of what is happening to the NHS - in reverse - isn't it? Brand NHS - increasingly services run by private firms - but the public not really aware.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 5:27 pm

Glenn Campbell ‏@GlennBBC 48m48 minutes ago
Who turned out the lights? MSPs are debating in the dark after a power failure in the @scotparl chamber.